Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Martin Spott wrote: >> ..easy now, without a willingness to defend FlightGear copyright, > > Just a repetition of the above. Oh my, what an outstanding example of > canned nonsense, > Yeah, but he stamps "New and Improved!" on his can of nonsense, so it's ok, right? *snickers* g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:44:25 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message : > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:30:12 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message > > <4def2504.8020...@gmail.com>: > > > >> On 08.06.2011 08:18, Michael Sgier wrote: > > > >> > If you really want to fight those scamers, there's a very simple > >> > way to do that: inform people. > > > > ..about what, FlightGear authors lack of willingness to defend > > their copyright? > > Wrong ! That's nothing than a completely wrong assertion. ..oh yeah? "Our records speaks loudly" about that. ;o) > The idea was perfectly laid out in Stefan's fine posting. ..yes. > There's no point in your stupid quoting and stupid conclusions. ..no court cares about my opinion or conclusion in this matter, courts only care about acts under the laws, sense or nonsense. > > ..easy now, without a willingness to defend FlightGear copyright, > > Just a repetition of the above. Oh my, what an outstanding example of > canned nonsense, > > Martin. ..any court that cares about my opinion in any matter, will call me (as) an expert witness. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:30:12 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message > <4def2504.8020...@gmail.com>: > >> On 08.06.2011 08:18, Michael Sgier wrote: > >> > If you really want to fight those scamers, there's a very simple >> > way to do that: inform people. > > ..about what, FlightGear authors lack of willingness to defend > their copyright? Wrong ! That's nothing than a completely wrong assertion. The idea was perfectly laid out in Stefan's fine posting. There's no point in your stupid quoting and stupid conclusions. > ..easy now, without a willingness to defend FlightGear copyright, Just a repetition of the above. Oh my, what an outstanding example of canned nonsense, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:30:12 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message <4def2504.8020...@gmail.com>: > On 08.06.2011 08:18, Michael Sgier wrote: > > If you really want to fight those scamers, there's a very simple > > way to do that: inform people. ..about what, FlightGear authors lack of willingness to defend their copyright? > Marketing. ..easy now, without a willingness to defend FlightGear copyright, such "inform people" marketing becomes slander, restraint of trade etc, legislation on marketing is commonly meant to prevent vendors from abusing consumers and competitors, e.g. from being called "freeloading scamsters." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
On 08.06.2011 08:18, Michael Sgier wrote: > quote fred: "There is nothing that could prevent to release it under the > GPL, but in > the light of > recent events (read FPS) I am not fond of releasing something that > couldn't be used.." Don't cut quotes. Fred actually agreed to release it under the GPL when it's usable for FG and integrated by someone. Doesn't really work as an argument to change license. On 08.06.2011 08:19, Stefan Seifert wrote: > On Wednesday 08 June 2011 07:43:12 Michael Sgier wrote: >> why not simply change the fgfs licence once and for all? Android is not all >> GPL anymore...we could do the very same.- > > Would you really want to restrict the very freedoms that made FlightGear such > a successful project, just to have some legal means against some shady people > who try to fool the uninformed into paying some money for FG? Chances are, > that a different license would not even help, since you couldn't even find out > who to sue. I do not have much code in FG, but I for one would absolutely > oppose such a useless and destructive move. If not for the freedom, I would > never have bothered with FG. I would just have payed a couple of bucks for X- > Plane and be flying. > > Yes, it leaves a very sour taste that people who have contributed nothing are > earning money (we don't know how well they do btw.) while the people who did > the work get nothing. But the truth is that we wouldn't get anything in any > case and we chose it that way. People are cheated every day and thiefs get > loads of money. It's sad, but nothing will change that. > > If you really want to fight those scamers, there's a very simple way to do > that: inform people. Marketing. People who know about FlightGear will not pay > for an outdated copy. Go out and write about FG in aviation forums and blogs. > Write letters to aviation magazines which include articles about flight sims. > Write about FG in all the social media you use. Post loads of cool videos on > Youtube. Be visible! > > Everyone can help here and it takes only minutes for every action. This helps > not only preventing people from getting fooled, but also to get more users and > hopefully contributers which is a hell of a lot better than having to deal > with law suits, distracting developers and reducing freedom. I say let's > change the fight into one they simply cannot win. That way we will not only > stop losing something, but actively win visibility, users and contributers. > > Stefan +1 Thanks Stefan, one of the best emails on the topic. cheers, Thorsten -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
quote fred: "There is nothing that could prevent to release it under the GPL, but in the light of recent events (read FPS) I am not fond of releasing something that couldn't be used.." true but why not follow the Android etc. examples to not put everything under GPL? --- On Sun, 6/5/11, Frederic Bouvier wrote: From: Frederic Bouvier Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine To: "FlightGear developers discussions" Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 7:17 PM Le 05/06/2011 09:34, Michael Sgier a écrit : > Salut Frederic > what happened to the terrain engine, that you show at youtube? Could > we get that into fgfs sometimes? > Regards Michael > > On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 13:07 +0400, Slavutinsky Victor wrote: >>> > > -Fred >> > >> > Little bit other topic. >> > >> > Hi Frederic, I have two questions for You. >> > >> > 1) Can Your terrain engine be added in FG? >> > 2) Can it be fast enough for orbital flight with visibility ~500km and >> > speed ~3km/h, ~8km/sec? > There might be some more questions involved: > 3) Is it an accurate representation of the world or a procedural terrain > engine. > 4) Are you willing to /and/ able to release it under the terms of the > GPL. My terrain engine is not ready and this project stalled another time because of lack of time on a long period. The code has nothing to do with FG except it uses few classes from SimGear, and the graphic engine is OSG. The file format is totally different and includes a precomputed LOD scheme (ROAM 2 for who's interested). It is pictured in this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYH27KyUBk I let you juge if it could work for space flight. The data used in the most recent videos are from the Custom Scenery project and the elevations are from SRTM. So it is real world data with the potential to add some procedurally generated small details to enhance detail levels at close distance. There is nothing that could prevent to release it under the GPL, but in the light of recent events (read FPS) I am not fond of releasing something that couldn't be used directly, but just stolen very easily. I am ok to think about some restricted access to the sources to known (core) developpers that are willing to contribute to make it usable and then included to the core if it pass the smell test. Main current issues are : 1. realtime engine needs to be re-done using latest OSG DB features 2. atmospheric model (Bruneton's) produce artefacts for spheroidal earth 3. artefacts in shapefile clipping (something to do with the cylindrical nature of longitudes) > 0) Does it meet the technical requirements for being used in > FlightGear ? I'll let you elaborate on this topic before I could answer. Regards, -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
> Well, these video are real, but the absence of update is an indication > of the progress (or lack thereof) of the project. > > Regards, > -Fred Wish best to You with it anyway. It's not good when something is stops on the middle. For me it's better then You can say: "Well, maybe it's not used. But I did it. While most of You are not.". Victor -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
- "Martin Spott" a écrit : > Hi Frederic, > > Frederic Bouvier wrote: > > >> 0) Does it meet the technical requirements for being used in > >>FlightGear ? > > I'll let you elaborate on this topic before I could answer. > > My comment was addressing those who are judging over the usability > just from watching a video on YouTube :-) Well, these video are real, but the absence of update is an indication of the progress (or lack thereof) of the project. Regards, -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
> I'll let you elaborate on this topic before I could answer. Frederic, thank You for answer. It seems what it's become more or less clear now. I think it's reasonable to test osgEarth at least to compare speed, exactness, and including possibilities then. If Your engine is completely different osg based product than FG then difference between it and osgEarth engine, which other completely different osg based product, including is mostly virtual. My opinion what's better to use things by near side, but only in case it's better or equal to things on far. If it's hard to use then it seems better to choose what's faster and easier in including. As I heard, osgEarth already works as engine in some sim products. Do not know if it have ROAM possibilities or some problems though. It would be nice if some core level developer could look deeper into it. Dunno if I could tell competent even if I would have time to test it myself. Victor -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
Hi Frederic, Frederic Bouvier wrote: >> 0) Does it meet the technical requirements for being used in >>FlightGear ? > I'll let you elaborate on this topic before I could answer. My comment was addressing those who are judging over the usability just from watching a video on YouTube :-) Best regards, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
Le 05/06/2011 09:34, Michael Sgier a écrit : > Salut Frederic > what happened to the terrain engine, that you show at youtube? Could > we get that into fgfs sometimes? > Regards Michael > > On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 13:07 +0400, Slavutinsky Victor wrote: >>> > > -Fred >> > >> > Little bit other topic. >> > >> > Hi Frederic, I have two questions for You. >> > >> > 1) Can Your terrain engine be added in FG? >> > 2) Can it be fast enough for orbital flight with visibility ~500km and >> > speed ~3km/h, ~8km/sec? > There might be some more questions involved: > 3) Is it an accurate representation of the world or a procedural terrain > engine. > 4) Are you willing to /and/ able to release it under the terms of the > GPL. My terrain engine is not ready and this project stalled another time because of lack of time on a long period. The code has nothing to do with FG except it uses few classes from SimGear, and the graphic engine is OSG. The file format is totally different and includes a precomputed LOD scheme (ROAM 2 for who's interested). It is pictured in this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYH27KyUBk I let you juge if it could work for space flight. The data used in the most recent videos are from the Custom Scenery project and the elevations are from SRTM. So it is real world data with the potential to add some procedurally generated small details to enhance detail levels at close distance. There is nothing that could prevent to release it under the GPL, but in the light of recent events (read FPS) I am not fond of releasing something that couldn't be used directly, but just stolen very easily. I am ok to think about some restricted access to the sources to known (core) developpers that are willing to contribute to make it usable and then included to the core if it pass the smell test. Main current issues are : 1. realtime engine needs to be re-done using latest OSG DB features 2. atmospheric model (Bruneton's) produce artefacts for spheroidal earth 3. artefacts in shapefile clipping (something to do with the cylindrical nature of longitudes) > 0) Does it meet the technical requirements for being used in >FlightGear ? I'll let you elaborate on this topic before I could answer. Regards, -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Terrain engine
Salut Frederic what happened to the terrain engine, that you show at youtube? Could we get that into fgfs sometimes? Regards Michael --- On Sat, 6/4/11, Frederic Bouvier wrote: From: Frederic Bouvier Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Please insert disk into drive F: To: bre...@gmail.com, "FlightGear developers discussions" Date: Saturday, June 4, 2011, 3:28 PM - "ThorstenB" a écrit : > It's generally a bad idea to use absolute paths in model files (even > if it's unix paths - and there's loads of "/home//..." in our > model), since you can never be sure if it's working for anyone except > the original author (see above). But only the Windows paths are known > to have ugly side effects - so please at least avoid these... The problem is that the Blender AC exporter generates these absolute path. In the PLIB days, the loader simply ignored the path to just take the simple name. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
