Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
On 24 Sep 2008, at 01:19, Syd wrote: Hi James , Im no expert coder , but I did take a look at it myself , and the lack of comments made that a no go for me. I tried to visit some of the sites he listed as reference material , but either they don't exist anymore or I just can't get to them .Judging by the code , it does seem to be a complex and accurate instrument , and if someone can figure it out , great. I did some reading last night and it's probably the most accurately modelled piece of equipment in FG - down to fault handling and so on. But the configuration interface is big - there's several pages of tabular data and many properties that are used. Most of them do seem to be correct by default, but equally there's quite a few which are probably not set in many aircraft. There seems to be a list of aircraft 'types' (specified by an integer code), and when one is picked, it defines a whole bunch of other parameters about climb rate, maximum bank angle, minimum stopping distance, and so on. I'll start putting notes into a wiki page, I guess. My nasal 'experiment' is meant to appease those who want it working , (and to see if I can do it ), but it wont be anywhere near as complex as the MK-VIII. Yes, of course. Regards, James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
James Turner wrote: I did some reading last night and it's probably the most accurately modelled piece of equipment in FG - down to fault handling and so on. But the configuration interface is big - there's several pages of tabular data and many properties that are used. Most of them do seem to be correct by default, but equally there's quite a few which are probably not set in many aircraft. There seems to be a list of aircraft 'types' (specified by an integer code), and when one is picked, it defines a whole bunch of other parameters about climb rate, maximum bank angle, minimum stopping distance, and so on. I'll start putting notes into a wiki page, I guess. I did find a 60 page manual on the MK-VIII , so Ive got some reading to do myself . but it will be nice if the problems are just incorrect settings for aircraft type I added it to the Bravo , Citation X and 777-200 , so there are a few to test different settings on. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
Syd, Syd Adams wrote: Update of /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/b1900d In directory baron.flightgear.org:/tmp/cvs-serv18391 Modified Files: b1900d-set.xml b1900d.xml b1900dsplash.rgb instrumentation.xml Removed Files: b1900d-sound.xml Log Message: Converting to OSG , a lot of small updates stll to do... Added a simple nasal gpws since the mk-viii appears to misbehave... Did you already communicate the issue about the MK-VIII to other developers in order to get it fixed ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
Martin Spott wrote: Syd, Converting to OSG , a lot of small updates stll to do... Added a simple nasal gpws since the mk-viii appears to misbehave... Did you already communicate the issue about the MK-VIII to other developers in order to get it fixed ? Yes, please report any problems that (seems to) have been introduced recently, there was a lot of needed overhauling and just leaving it buggy is a bad idea. Erik - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
On 22 Sep 2008, at 08:20, Erik Hofman wrote: Did you already communicate the issue about the MK-VIII to other developers in order to get it fixed ? Yes, please report any problems that (seems to) have been introduced recently, there was a lot of needed overhauling and just leaving it buggy is a bad idea. Yep, it's entirely possible that I messed up aspects of the GPWS, but I need a better test case than 'acting weird'. Most of all, I need to know an aircraft where it definitely worked correctly in the past, because it's never worked 'well' for me in any version of FG. I'm not sure if this is due to the aircraft I fly, location, or some other factor. Regards, James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
Martin Spott wrote: Syd, Converting to OSG , a lot of small updates stll to do... Added a simple nasal gpws since the mk-viii appears to misbehave... Did you already communicate the issue about the MK-VIII to other developers in order to get it fixed ? Yes, please report any problems that (seems to) have been introduced recently, there was a lot of needed overhauling and just leaving it buggy is a bad idea. Erik So much as I know James Turner is working on that. And the MKVIII was never ever working right, I can understand Syd doing a workaround. Regards HHS __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
Heiko Schulz wrote: So much as I know James Turner is working on that. And the MKVIII was never ever working right, I can understand Syd doing a workaround. Last time I heard he was awaiting feedback. Erik - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
O.k. Yep, it's entirely possible that I messed up aspects of the GPWS, but I need a better test case than 'acting weird'. Most of all, I need to know an aircraft where it definitely worked correctly in the past, because it's never worked 'well' for me in any version of FG. I'm not sure if this is due to the aircraft I fly, location, or some other factor. Regards, James There was no aircraft in the past, that really worked like it should. Well, maybe the b1900d and later the 777 and the 787 was the one, which was origin for some other aircraft and were the best- working ones. Have a look into 1.0.0. Note that 1900d and 777 are by Syd. But the real problem is, that nobody really knows how the stuff is really working and how to activate them. The last errors I had were: -Bank-Angle-Callouts with real zero-angle after lift off or shortly above rwy while landing. - the callouts 50 40 30 20 10 could be never heard at all- even with a very low sink rate Low-Terrain-warning on a corrct ILS-glidepath Regards HHS __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
Heiko Schulz wrote: The last errors I had were: -Bank-Angle-Callouts with real zero-angle after lift off or shortly above rwy while landing. - the callouts 50 40 30 20 10 could be never heard at all- even with a very low sink rate Low-Terrain-warning on a corrct ILS-glidepath Hello, I just want to confirm this. Especially the bank angle right after takeoff is a common issue. I encounter it in the Citation Bravo. Did not take care on the callouts, but the low terrain warning although perfectly on a 3° glidepath are happening here, too. If i'm not mistaken as well on the Bravo. Cheers, Chris - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
`Did you already communicate the issue about the MK-VIII to other evelopers in order to get it fixed ? Martin. A long long time ago I tried to contact Jean for pointers no response... Well, this sounds like a case for a knowledgeable person to explain instead of silently working around it instead of silently working around it So I gather your telling me I can't change my aircraft ? The gpws issues have been known for a long time , and I,m sure you well know that . I wont post bugs here because of exactly this My past questions were largely ignored , my minor patches were generally called crap , and the only way to get a real discussion going seems to be introducing a mistake or a typo THEN watch the discussions fly ! This used to be a friendly helpful place , but has deteriorated drastically over the years . There's always someone who wont pipe in until they spot that eagerly awaited mistake. I know I'm not the only one frustrated by the that goes on here, so hopefully we can try to resort to courtesy and respect again . In the meantime , IRC is a much freindlier , helpful place. Cheers - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
Syd wrote: In the meantime , IRC is a much freindlier , helpful place. Unfortunately IRC (like the forum) is not the place where problems are solved, only the developers mailinglist is. This is because not everyone can follow all he places where discussions are taking place. Erik - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
On 23 Sep 2008, at 20:26, Syd wrote: So I gather your telling me I can't change my aircraft ? The gpws issues have been known for a long time , and I,m sure you well know that . I wont post bugs here because of exactly this My past questions were largely ignored , my minor patches were generally called crap , and the only way to get a real discussion going seems to be introducing a mistake or a typo THEN watch the discussions fly ! The problem seems to be very bad in the case of the GPWS, because it's actually a very complex instrument, and the author (who seems to be ... absent?) clearly put in a lot of very accurate functionality, but almost no documentation. Because it's so complex, I assume it needs some accurate configuration to work with an aircraft - i.e the 'out of the box' defaults are not correct - which is entirely understandable. There also seems to be a lack of some reference installations in aircraft, and the code hasn't had much love - I've been bumping up against it doing my refactorings, but I think I'll take a step back, and look over it properly, since it seems no one else has in some time. Also, don't get me wrong - I have no problem with people coding up systems in Nasal, it's the right place for many, many such systems. And indeed, probably the right place for a simple radar-altitude-based GPWS with voice callouts. That's not what the Mk-VIII is - it's modelling all the clever modes (look-ahead, terrain clearing, approach, etc) and doing things like finding the nearest runway / localiser to identify which runway the aircraft is inbound too. It's a good case of a real-world instrument which makes sense to be in C++ (until machines get quite a bit quicker), but it needs some love, and some docs. So, I don't have a problem with a Nasal GPWS, but I'd far, far rather have some collaboration and help to get the Mk-VIII into a state where aircraft modellers can use it comfortably and correctly. In the meantime , IRC is a much freindlier , helpful place. But not a useable one for some of us - following the forums and here is enough work for me. Regards, James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Aircraft/b1900d b1900d-set.xml, 1.32,
James Turner wrote: The problem seems to be very bad in the case of the GPWS, because it's actually a very complex instrument, and the author (who seems to be ... absent?) clearly put in a lot of very accurate functionality, but almost no documentation. Because it's so complex, I assume it needs some accurate configuration to work with an aircraft - i.e the 'out of the box' defaults are not correct - which is entirely understandable. There also seems to be a lack of some reference installations in aircraft, and the code hasn't had much love - I've been bumping up against it doing my refactorings, but I think I'll take a step back, and look over it properly, since it seems no one else has in some time. Also, don't get me wrong - I have no problem with people coding up systems in Nasal, it's the right place for many, many such systems. And indeed, probably the right place for a simple radar-altitude-based GPWS with voice callouts. That's not what the Mk-VIII is - it's modelling all the clever modes (look-ahead, terrain clearing, approach, etc) and doing things like finding the nearest runway / localiser to identify which runway the aircraft is inbound too. It's a good case of a real-world instrument which makes sense to be in C++ (until machines get quite a bit quicker), but it needs some love, and some docs. So, I don't have a problem with a Nasal GPWS, but I'd far, far rather have some collaboration and help to get the Mk-VIII into a state where aircraft modellers can use it comfortably and correctly. In the meantime , IRC is a much freindlier , helpful place. But not a useable one for some of us - following the forums and here is enough work for me. Regards, James Hi James , Im no expert coder , but I did take a look at it myself , and the lack of comments made that a no go for me. I tried to visit some of the sites he listed as reference material , but either they don't exist anymore or I just can't get to them .Judging by the code , it does seem to be a complex and accurate instrument , and if someone can figure it out , great. My nasal 'experiment' is meant to appease those who want it working , (and to see if I can do it ), but it wont be anywhere near as complex as the MK-VIII. I did try to contact Jean long ago , to see if there were setting that needed to be changed for individual aircraft (when I added it to the Bravo),but no luck there . I will continue to poke around with it , I think it should have more obvious user settings and thanks for looking into it . Cheers - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
