Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru
The first ~100 pages are still especially good as food for thought Cheers, Alan > > From: Duncan Mak >To: Alan Kay ; Fundamentals of New Computing > >Cc: "mo...@codetransform.com" >Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:35 AM >Subject: Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru > > >This is great! > > >Dirk - how did you find it? > > >Duncan. > > > >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Alan Kay wrote: > >That's it -- a real classic! >> >> >>Cheers, >> >> >>Alan >> >> >> >>> >>> From: Dirk Pranke >>>To: Fundamentals of New Computing ; mo...@codetransform.com >>>Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:18 PM >>> >>>Subject: Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru >>> >>> >>>In response to a long-dormant thread ... Fisher's thesis seems to have >>>surfaced on the web: >>> >>> >>>http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/anon/usr/ftp/usr0/ftp/scan/CMU-CS-70-fisher.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>>-- Dirk >>> >>> >>> >>>On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Monty Zukowski >>>wrote: >>> >>>If anyone finds an electronic copy of Fisher's thesis I'd love to know about it. My searches have been fruitless. Monty On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Alan Kay wrote: ... > Dave Fisher's thesis "A Control Definition Language" CMU 1970 is a very > clean approach to thinking about environments for LISP like languages. He > separates the "control" path, from the "environment" path, etc. ... ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >>> >>>___ >>>fonc mailing list >>>fonc@vpri.org >>>http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >>> >>> >>> >>___ >>fonc mailing list >>fonc@vpri.org >>http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >> >> > > > >-- >Duncan. > >___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru
I was browsing through this thread looking for a reference to something else and happened to see the reference to that paper and thought to Google it again :). -- Dirk On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Duncan Mak wrote: > This is great! > > Dirk - how did you find it? > > Duncan. > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Alan Kay wrote: > >> That's it -- a real classic! >> >> Cheers, >> >> Alan >> >> -- >> *From:* Dirk Pranke >> *To:* Fundamentals of New Computing ; >> mo...@codetransform.com >> *Sent:* Monday, March 25, 2013 11:18 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru >> >> In response to a long-dormant thread ... Fisher's thesis seems to have >> surfaced on the web: >> >> >> http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/anon/usr/ftp/usr0/ftp/scan/CMU-CS-70-fisher.pdf >> >> -- Dirk >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Monty Zukowski > > wrote: >> >> If anyone finds an electronic copy of Fisher's thesis I'd love to know >> about it. My searches have been fruitless. >> >> Monty >> >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Alan Kay wrote: >> ... >> > Dave Fisher's thesis "A Control Definition Language" CMU 1970 is a very >> > clean approach to thinking about environments for LISP like languages. >> He >> > separates the "control" path, from the "environment" path, etc. >> ... >> ___ >> fonc mailing list >> fonc@vpri.org >> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >> >> >> >> ___ >> fonc mailing list >> fonc@vpri.org >> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >> >> >> >> ___ >> fonc mailing list >> fonc@vpri.org >> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >> >> > > > -- > Duncan. > > ___ > fonc mailing list > fonc@vpri.org > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru
This is great! Dirk - how did you find it? Duncan. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Alan Kay wrote: > That's it -- a real classic! > > Cheers, > > Alan > > -- > *From:* Dirk Pranke > *To:* Fundamentals of New Computing ; > mo...@codetransform.com > *Sent:* Monday, March 25, 2013 11:18 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru > > In response to a long-dormant thread ... Fisher's thesis seems to have > surfaced on the web: > > > http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/anon/usr/ftp/usr0/ftp/scan/CMU-CS-70-fisher.pdf > > -- Dirk > > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Monty Zukowski > wrote: > > If anyone finds an electronic copy of Fisher's thesis I'd love to know > about it. My searches have been fruitless. > > Monty > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Alan Kay wrote: > ... > > Dave Fisher's thesis "A Control Definition Language" CMU 1970 is a very > > clean approach to thinking about environments for LISP like languages. He > > separates the "control" path, from the "environment" path, etc. > ... > ___ > fonc mailing list > fonc@vpri.org > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > > > ___ > fonc mailing list > fonc@vpri.org > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > > > ___ > fonc mailing list > fonc@vpri.org > http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > -- Duncan. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru
That's it -- a real classic! Cheers, Alan > > From: Dirk Pranke >To: Fundamentals of New Computing ; mo...@codetransform.com >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 11:18 PM >Subject: Re: [fonc] Kernel & Maru > > >In response to a long-dormant thread ... Fisher's thesis seems to have >surfaced on the web: > > >http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/anon/usr/ftp/usr0/ftp/scan/CMU-CS-70-fisher.pdf > > > >-- Dirk > > > >On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Monty Zukowski >wrote: > >If anyone finds an electronic copy of Fisher's thesis I'd love to know >>about it. My searches have been fruitless. >> >>Monty >> >>On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Alan Kay wrote: >>... >> >>> Dave Fisher's thesis "A Control Definition Language" CMU 1970 is a very >>> clean approach to thinking about environments for LISP like languages. He >>> separates the "control" path, from the "environment" path, etc. >>... >> >>___ >>fonc mailing list >>fonc@vpri.org >>http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc >> > >___ >fonc mailing list >fonc@vpri.org >http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc > > >___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Binary Lambda Calculus
Hi John and Andre, On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, John Tromp wrote: dear Andre/Jan, PGA is very different from BLC of course, but both are a simple linear notations. PGA starts with jump instructions, and it has step by step extensions for variables, control structures, semaphores etc. It has been used as a projection of Ruby's OO constructs. So I hope PGA could give you some ideas. PGA looks like a notation for control flow as a basis for an imperative language. BLC is a self-contained pure functional language aimed at minimal programs. This seems a case of comparing apples and oranges:-) I had a quick look at PGA it and it seems to be more like a minimalistic assembler. E.g. the core language seems to have variable names and jump statements in there (correct me if I am wrong). To introduce variables I was rather thinking of something were you would compile/project "x + 1" to ((lambda x (+ x 1)) x). I.e. evaluation takes place "inside" a lambda expression. That said, maybe there are some nice ideas in PGA on how to compile DSLs to BLC. After reading John Tromp's paper [1] (also see De Bruijn Index [2]) I got very interested in Binary Lambda Calculus (BLC). In my little spare time I implemented a BLC interpreter in C [3, 4]. Cool! You can also find a simple interpreter on my webpage, from which I derived the IOCCC entry at http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/tromp.c http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html that uses several interesting sample BLC programs, which you may want to try as additional tests for your interpreter. My C implementations still trail my Haskell implementation in flexibility, robustness and performance though... Yes, I saw 'tromp.c' previously ;) Sure, I'll have a look at running less trivial programs, soon. I'm still undecided about how to approach some things: * How does parallel processing fit into the picture? * What's the best way to implement a DSL including booleans, integers, floating point numbers, strings, .. on top of BLC? * Is it possible to describe the electronics of integer addition and multiplication in BLC and still have it jit-compiled to run efficiently on x86 hardware? * How to implement I/O (maybe use monadic objects)? All these features are somewhat beyond the scope of BLC, and most either require, or benefit greatly, from a type system, which is purposely lacking in BLC. I think you should look at a language like Haskell for achieving such goals. I'm thinking about using a dynamic type system like in Ruby. Or maybe there is no need for a type system. Maybe it is possible to have a DSL which maps 'true' to 110 internally and then converts it back when printing out a result. Maybe it could be a similar concept as in Ruby where every object has an 'inspect' method which is called by the REPL to print a result. Could the I/O implementation provide equivalent functions to Scheme's quote and eval, too? The binary encoding of terms in BLC serves as the quoted form, while the 210 bit interpreter is your eval. You can write a quote function, but it needs an already quoted form as input (and gives you a double quoted form as output). I see. That's "eval" right there :) Maybe "quote" could be a function which returns the following subexpression as a list. E.g.: quote 0010 -> (false, false, true, false) where quote would be a global variable (e.g. 110) and the list (false, false, true, false) would be represented as shown in your paper. Best regards Jan ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
