Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
2012/6/13 Rene : > On 2012-06-12 00:36, Mike Meyer wrote: >> >> My boss just sent me mail that said, and I quote: >> >> Fossil sucks and is actually not compatible with Windows >> > > Mike, > > ... > Better sit down with him and ask him what the problem is, maybe first a few > pints of strong lager. > ... > > It is not a technical issue. > -- Fully agree! Cheers, Jacek ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On 2012-06-12 00:36, Mike Meyer wrote: My boss just sent me mail that said, and I quote: Fossil sucks and is actually not compatible with Windows I'm pretty sure I've seen people here who use it no Windows, and there's a Windows distribution, which makes me think he's wrong. His problem is that he has lots of spaces in his directory and file names, and we (Windows is a third-line gaming platform for me, but I try...) couldn't figure out how to get such passed to fossil as file names, instead of broken up by command.com or whatever does that job these days. Quoting again: If I try adding parentheses or quotes then the ignorant application bombs out. So, anyone got advice on this? Maybe a GUI that works with the fossil Windows binary from fossil.org? Thanks, Mike, I think he doesn't want to move to fossil. And all the arguments you make will not help. He keep up making arguments why it sucks Better sit down with him and ask him what the problem is, maybe first a few pints of strong lager. Maybe you selected the tool without him participating (enough) in the decision. It is not a technical issue. -- Rene ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > We're not talking about a repository that's being served by an HTTP > server, but about the repository that's on his machine. > >> However... once a developer clones the repo, if he has it on a public >> filesystem then all bets are off. > > Exactly. He wants it on a file system that he's where he's using ACLs > to control access to the contents of the file system, and fossil is > apparently refusing to work unless he opens access to those files up > to everyone. That's not acceptable to him. The Fossil repository should only need to be accessable to the user ID under which Fossil runs. If he is using the Fossil command line, then it runs under his user ID, so it would have access to a repository he owned. Should be the same for using "fossil ui". If he wants/needs to run "fossil server" on his PC, then Fossil should run as a different user ID with a repository owned by the same user ID - or at least the repository has permissions allowing the "Fossil user ID" read/write access. For him to access that same repository with the Fossile command line, the "orthodox" way would be to have the command line treat the Fossil server as if it was on another PC and access it the same as accessing any "remote" repository. If he really wants to directly access the same resposity, the repository would have to have permissions granting both him and the "Fossil user ID" read/write access. While I suppose there could be a bug in Fossil, in my own use of Fossil, repositories I own are only accessable to me, therefore only accessable to Fossil running under my user ID. Other users' repositories are likewise only accessable to them. To share changes, we each have a "fossil server" running under our own IDs that respond to push/pull/sync requests. While I don't know, I'd be surprized if Mercurial had any interface to ACLs, Windows, Linux, Posix or other. For what it is worth, as best I recall, last time I used git, it did not. Like most other apps, including Fossil, it depends on the OS to "decide" whether it has access to any given file. Ultimately, without knowing exactly what your boss was trying to do, it is unlikely to be possible to demonstrate Fossil working in a given scenario. I suppose he could be expecting Fossil to somehow use Windows ACLs to control access to artifacts stored in Fossil's database, but since Fossil's databse is contained in a single file, that is not practical and probably not even possible. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:15 AM, Mike Meyer wrote: > Exactly. He wants it on a file system that he's where he's using ACLs > to control access to the contents of the file system, and fossil is > apparently refusing to work unless he opens access to those files up > to everyone. That's not acceptable to him. > It sounds he's already decided against fossil. Needing to restrict access on his own machine? No matter. His loss ;). It's never any fun supporting such users, anyway ;). -- - stephan beal http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/ http://gplus.to/sgbeal ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Stephan Beal wrote: > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: >> >> ACLs. Apparently, using it means that you have to open the sources up >> to readable by everything/everyone or some such. That's caused him to >> ask me to install mercurial. > > > That's a partial misunderstanding: True, but I think it's on your part. > the sources are safely tucked away behind > an HTTP server which can be restricted to authenticated users only. We're not talking about a repository that's being served by an HTTP server, but about the repository that's on his machine. > However... once a developer clones the repo, if he has it on a public > filesystem then all bets are off. Exactly. He wants it on a file system that he's where he's using ACLs to control access to the contents of the file system, and fossil is apparently refusing to work unless he opens access to those files up to everyone. That's not acceptable to him. http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > ACLs. Apparently, using it means that you have to open the sources up > to readable by everything/everyone or some such. That's caused him to > ask me to install mercurial. > That's a partial misunderstanding: the sources are safely tucked away behind an HTTP server which can be restricted to authenticated users only. However... once a developer clones the repo, if he has it on a public filesystem then all bets are off. That goes for mercurial and git and bazaar as well. It sounds like he's predisposed against fossil, in which case you have probably already lost the battle. -- - stephan beal http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/ http://gplus.to/sgbeal ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
We use fossil on Windows for several ongoing customer projects and are quite pleased. Out of long-standing habits born of too many years dealing with command-line tools, we are fairly careful to keep spaces out of path and file names inside repositories. However, I have several cases where the repositories themselves are stored in locations with spaces in their path names, and that has only caused one problem that I just noticed today. Specifically, we use an Apache installation on one of our less-occupied PCs to host "master" copies of all the project repositories. This provides for easy access to their tickets and timelines from the web ui, and allows the working copies on our various development machines to have a "remote" repository to sync to that is always available despite some developers connecting only occasionally by VPN. Apache is configured with a simple CGI script to pass requests through to fossil for any and all *.fossil files in a single folder. When we moved the folder on the hosting PCs file system to a location that included spaces in the name, fossil cgi stopped being able to locate any of the repositories. Changing the path names to no longer include spaces fixed the issue. In other words, the file /cgi-bin/repo works if it looks like this: #!fossil directory: C:/Some-Place-Sensible/Repositories/Fossil notfound: http://example/cgi-bin/repo/main But failed when it looked like this: > #!fossil > directory: C:/Some Place Sensible/Repositories/Fossil > notfound: http://example/cgi-bin/repo/main I did try various kinds of quoting that seemed plausible with no joy. Changing the name to not have spaces made sense for lots of reasons, so we are content with that work-around. Fossil itself reads that file as the CGI handler, and I don't know if if does have a quoting mechanism for path names in the CGI script, or even if it should have one. I imagine that using any non-ASCII characters in the path name could also have caused "interesting" behavior, but I haven't tried that. On 6/11/2012 3:36 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: His problem is that he has lots of spaces in his directory and file names, and we (Windows is a third-line gaming platform for me, but I try...) couldn't figure out how to get such passed to fossil as file names, instead of broken up by command.com or whatever does that job these days. Quoting again: -- Ross Berteig r...@cheshireeng.com Cheshire Engineering Corp. http://www.CheshireEng.com/ ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > The other issue is that fossil doesn't pay attention to Windows > ACLs. I'm somewhat familiar with Windows ACLs but I don't really know what this means. Can you be more specific? Usually, file inherit permissions from their folder. No, fossil doesn't attempt to store and recreate these permissions but neither does any of development tool that I use such as Visual Studio. If he's looking for something like Team Foundation Server's permissions, perhaps split the sources into one repo per project and give access as needed. Apparently, using it means that you have to open the sources up > to readable by everything/everyone or some such. That's caused him to > ask me to install mercurial. > Would you be able to get more specifics about where he's putting the FOSSIL repo and where his working copy or source tree resides? ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:45:37 -0400 Ron Wilson wrote: > In particular, file/directory names with spaces in them need to be > quoted. The other issue is that fossil doesn't pay attention to Windows ACLs. Apparently, using it means that you have to open the sources up to readable by everything/everyone or some such. That's caused him to ask me to install mercurial. Sigh. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
I've only ever used Trac for Issue Tracking and Wiki. Looking at the documentaiton on the Trac website, it looks like working copy operations (commit, update, etc.) are done through an "ordinary" SVN client. Maybe I am missing something, but (in 5 minutes) I could not find anything about commiting changes and updating working copies. If I am right that you just use a SVN client for working copy operations, then using the SVN command line client is very, very similar to using Fossil for working copy operations. In particular, file/directory names with spaces in them need to be quoted. Of course, there are also GUI clients available for both SVN and Fossil. I don't know what your non-developer users are trying to do with Fossil or Trac, but perhaps a GUI front end would be a good idea for your users. Where I work, the non-developer users use only the issue tracking features of Fossil, so only ever use Fossil through it's web interface. Amoung our developers, some of them have configured a few Fossil commands in to the IDE we use. I have not and the IDE does not provide an easy way to share subsets of the configuration. (when a new developer joins us, she/he gets a copy of an existing IDE configuration, then is free to change settings as desired (within coding style guidlines). ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
Hi Mike, See the sample session below. All works as you would expect. Obviously, it is a trivial example and I don't mean there are no bugs in fossil. It's just I've never encountered any w.r.t. spaces in file/dir names. Cheers, Jacek d:\tmp\space dir>fossil init "d:\cala\data\fossil test repo\space repo.fossil" project-id: f70c97386adaa6bec27c0dcc527c10d8dd402a88 server-id: 3f07ec4cf14b58a30a3ccdc3f0d5471458b6a92b admin-user: Jacek (initial password is "f0dc4f") d:\tmp\space dir>fossil open "d:\cala\data\fossil test repo\space repo.fossil" d:\tmp\space dir>fossil add "new file.txt" ADDED new file.txt d:\tmp\space dir>fossil chan 1 ADDED new file.txt d:\tmp\space dir>fossil commit -m "new file added" New_Version: dfb176fe997a79ea339f5a6245bc779f5da06d37 d:\tmp\space dir>fossil time === 2012-06-12 === 17:04:29 [dfb176fe99] *CURRENT* new file added (user: Jacek tags: trunk) 17:03:51 [6c6f984764] initial empty check-in (user: Jacek tags: trunk) d:\tmp\space dir>fossil close d:\tmp\space dir>rm "new file.txt" d:\tmp\space dir>fossil open "d:\cala\data\fossil test repo\space repo.fossil" new file.txt project-name: repository: d:\cala\data\fossil test repo\space repo.fossil local-root: d:/tmp/space dir/ user-home:C:/Users/Jacek/AppData/Local project-code: f70c97386adaa6bec27c0dcc527c10d8dd402a88 checkout: dfb176fe997a79ea339f5a6245bc779f5da06d37 2012-06-12 17:04:29 UTC parent: 6c6f9847648b79df53dc38538873f54b0c3212b3 2012-06-12 17:03:51 UTC tags: trunk comment: new file added (user: Jacek) d:\tmp\space dir>dir Volume in drive D is Data Volume Serial Number is 1ADA-2296 Directory of d:\tmp\space dir 12/06/2012 18:04 . 12/06/2012 18:04 .. 12/06/2012 18:04 6 new file.txt 12/06/2012 18:04 7,168 _FOSSIL_ 2 File(s) 7,174 bytes 2 Dir(s) 7,288,463,360 bytes free 2012/6/12 Mike Meyer : > On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:15:08 +0100 > Jacek Cała wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Could you please be a bit more specific about what errors exactly you >> have experienced. > > I wish I could. It's my boss that's having problems, and I've already > sent the full report to him. I'm now pursuing this on my own time. > >> I've been using fossil on Windows (Vista 32-bit and 7 64-bit) for more >> than 3 years now and haven't ever experienced any problems with spaces >> in dirs or file names; > > How about the path to the repository? He can't get "fossil open" to > work (or at least, that's the last report I had). > > Thanks, > -- > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/ > Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > ___ > fossil-users mailing list > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org > http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:15:08 +0100 Jacek Cała wrote: > Hi, > > Could you please be a bit more specific about what errors exactly you > have experienced. I wish I could. It's my boss that's having problems, and I've already sent the full report to him. I'm now pursuing this on my own time. > I've been using fossil on Windows (Vista 32-bit and 7 64-bit) for more > than 3 years now and haven't ever experienced any problems with spaces > in dirs or file names; How about the path to the repository? He can't get "fossil open" to work (or at least, that's the last report I had). Thanks, http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Jacek Cała wrote: > However, I think you usually don't need to specify file names by hand. > It's enough to issue > 'fossil add *' or 'fossil add a_dir' or 'fossil add "a_dir\b dir"' and > fossil will do the job you. I've used fossil lightly on Windows XP and 7 for several years without problems. You do need the quotes in batch files or when specifying file names on the command line. But that's no different than any other command line tool on Windows. Have you checked out Fuel as a way to mostly avoid the command-line? It's on my todo list but I haven't spent much time with it yet. https://code.google.com/p/fuel-scm/ Kevin ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
Hi again, Sorry for not answering your question in my previous post... I'm a bit sleepy (it's about 1am my time). Try double quotes. Just tested with no errors: > fossil add "new file.txt" ADDED new file.txt > fossil chan ADDED new file.txt > fossil commit -m "new file added..." New_Version: 4023b409f054b270412af3302e79ad20a67de5c0 However, I think you usually don't need to specify file names by hand. It's enough to issue 'fossil add *' or 'fossil add a_dir' or 'fossil add "a_dir\b dir"' and fossil will do the job you. Jacek 2012/6/11 Mike Meyer : > My boss just sent me mail that said, and I quote: > > Fossil sucks and is actually not compatible with Windows > > I'm pretty sure I've seen people here who use it no Windows, and > there's a Windows distribution, which makes me think he's wrong. > > His problem is that he has lots of spaces in his directory and file > names, and we (Windows is a third-line gaming platform for me, but I > try...) couldn't figure out how to get such passed to fossil as file > names, instead of broken up by command.com or whatever does that job > these days. Quoting again: > > If I try adding parentheses or quotes then the ignorant > application bombs out. > > So, anyone got advice on this? Maybe a GUI that works with the fossil > Windows binary from fossil.org? > > Thanks, > -- > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/ > Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > ___ > fossil-users mailing list > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org > http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
Hi, Could you please be a bit more specific about what errors exactly you have experienced. I've been using fossil on Windows (Vista 32-bit and 7 64-bit) for more than 3 years now and haven't ever experienced any problems with spaces in dirs or file names; Below is an excerpt from the listing of one of my repos that I work intensively on. My current fossil ver says: > fossil version This is fossil version 1.22 [5dd5d39e7c] 2012-03-19 12:45:47 UTC But, as said, I've been using much, much older versions, too. > fossil ls ... MonitoringCore/Installers.cs MonitoringCore/Lib/Castle.Windsor-2.5.3/ASL - Apache Software Foundation License.txt MonitoringCore/Lib/Castle.Windsor-2.5.3/BreakingChanges.txt ... eSC-blocks/Execute Multiple Workflows with Properties/classes/MyService.class eSC-blocks/Execute Multiple Workflows with Properties/dependencies.xml Cheers, Jacek 2012/6/11 Mike Meyer : > My boss just sent me mail that said, and I quote: > > Fossil sucks and is actually not compatible with Windows > > I'm pretty sure I've seen people here who use it no Windows, and > there's a Windows distribution, which makes me think he's wrong. > > His problem is that he has lots of spaces in his directory and file > names, and we (Windows is a third-line gaming platform for me, but I > try...) couldn't figure out how to get such passed to fossil as file > names, instead of broken up by command.com or whatever does that job > these days. Quoting again: > > If I try adding parentheses or quotes then the ignorant > application bombs out. > > So, anyone got advice on this? Maybe a GUI that works with the fossil > Windows binary from fossil.org? > > Thanks, > -- > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/ > Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > ___ > fossil-users mailing list > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org > http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > My boss just sent me mail that said, and I quote: > > Fossil sucks and is actually not compatible with Windows > > I'm pretty sure I've seen people here who use it no Windows, and > there's a Windows distribution, which makes me think he's wrong. > > His problem is that he has lots of spaces in his directory and file > names, and we (Windows is a third-line gaming platform for me, but I > try...) couldn't figure out how to get such passed to fossil as file > names, instead of broken up by command.com or whatever does that job > these days. Quoting again: > >If I try adding parentheses or quotes then the ignorant >application bombs out. > > So, anyone got advice on this? Maybe a GUI that works with the fossil > Windows binary from fossil.org? > I think the windows command-line shell insists on double-quotes around arguments that contain spaces. Unix will accept single-quotes and escaped spaces, but windows wants double-quotes. At least that has been my experience. On the other hand, there might be bugs in Fossil related to spaces in file and directory names. I never allow spaces in directory and filenames myself, so the ability to handle spaces in names is not something that gets heavily exercised. > >Thanks, > -- > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/ > Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > ___ > fossil-users mailing list > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org > http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users > -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
> -Original Message- > From: fossil-users-boun...@lists.fossil-scm.org [mailto:fossil-users- > boun...@lists.fossil-scm.org] On Behalf Of Mike Meyer > > My boss just sent me mail that said, and I quote: > >Fossil sucks and is actually not compatible with Windows > > I'm pretty sure I've seen people here who use it no Windows, and there's a > Windows distribution, which makes me think he's wrong. > > His problem is that he has lots of spaces in his directory and file names, and > we (Windows is a third-line gaming platform for me, but I > try...) couldn't figure out how to get such passed to fossil as file names, > instead of broken up by command.com or whatever does that job these > days. Quoting again: > > If I try adding parentheses or quotes then the ignorant > application bombs out. > > So, anyone got advice on this? Maybe a GUI that works with the fossil > Windows binary from fossil.org? > > Thanks, > http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] Fossil vs. Windows
My boss just sent me mail that said, and I quote: Fossil sucks and is actually not compatible with Windows I'm pretty sure I've seen people here who use it no Windows, and there's a Windows distribution, which makes me think he's wrong. His problem is that he has lots of spaces in his directory and file names, and we (Windows is a third-line gaming platform for me, but I try...) couldn't figure out how to get such passed to fossil as file names, instead of broken up by command.com or whatever does that job these days. Quoting again: If I try adding parentheses or quotes then the ignorant application bombs out. So, anyone got advice on this? Maybe a GUI that works with the fossil Windows binary from fossil.org? Thanks, http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
