Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Warren Young]

On Jan 23, 2017, at 8:35 AM, Richard Hipp  wrote:
> 
> On 1/23/17, Warren Young  wrote:
>> 
>> Digital Ocean has a $5/month option that should be ridiculously overkill
>> (512 MB of RAM, 20 GB SSD) and since they do hourly pricing and have a
>> remote API, you could bring it up and down at need.  If you just schedule it
>> 8 hours a day 5 days a week, it would come to about $1.25 a month.
> 
> I don't know about Digital Ocean, but other ISPs charge you by the
> amount of time that your disk image exists, not the amount of time
> your VM is actually running.

True, but the Digital Ocean remote API lets you create and destroy whole VMs 
remotely.  With a scripting system like Vagrant[*] you could bring the VM up in 
the time it takes to get coffee going in the morning, and destroy it in the 
evening before the occupancy sensors in the office start turning lights off.

Or, just create a snapshot, download it, destroy the VM, recreate a fresh VM, 
upload last night’s snapshot, and revert to the snapshot.

[*] 
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-digitalocean-as-your-provider-in-vagrant-on-an-ubuntu-12-10-vps

> price of 3 or 4 USB sticks, you could buy a Raspberry PI (or
> equivalent), stick it on your local network, and run a Fossil server
> on that!

The advantage of the public VPS is that you don’t create a potential 
island-hopping situation.

I’m totally happy to pay someone else to weather the script kiddie pounding.
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Richard Hipp]

On 1/23/17, Warren Young  wrote:
>
> Digital Ocean has a $5/month option that should be ridiculously overkill
> (512 MB of RAM, 20 GB SSD) and since they do hourly pricing and have a
> remote API, you could bring it up and down at need.  If you just schedule it
> 8 hours a day 5 days a week, it would come to about $1.25 a month.

I don't know about Digital Ocean, but other ISPs charge you by the
amount of time that your disk image exists, not the amount of time
your VM is actually running.  So I'm not sure about the $1.25/month
option.  I suspect you'd need to pay the full $5/month.

>
> That’s around the cost of the USB sticks you’re going to wear through with
> the other plan.
>

Good point about comparing the cost to that of a USB stick.  For the
price of 3 or 4 USB sticks, you could buy a Raspberry PI (or
equivalent), stick it on your local network, and run a Fossil server
on that!

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Warren Young]

On Jan 20, 2017, at 8:01 AM, Richard Hipp  wrote:
> 
> On 1/20/17, Javier Guerra Giraldez  wrote:
>> 
>> chiselapp.com offers private repositories.
> 
> Or you can get a $10/month Linode (https://www.linode.com/pricing) and
> set it up as your private server.

Digital Ocean has a $5/month option that should be ridiculously overkill (512 
MB of RAM, 20 GB SSD) and since they do hourly pricing and have a remote API, 
you could bring it up and down at need.  If you just schedule it 8 hours a day 
5 days a week, it would come to about $1.25 a month.

That’s around the cost of the USB sticks you’re going to wear through with the 
other plan.

Put it behind TLS,[*] and it’s as secure as it probably needs to be.


[*] https://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/msg22907.html
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said "Martin Irvine" on Fri, 20 Jan 2017 19:32:51 +1030:

> To achieve  the second objective, I  expect to make a  point of always
> carrying a USB Flash  Drive with me as I move from PC  to PC. I expect
> this Flash Drive should contain a  number of repository files, one for
> each project I am concerned with.

You might also consider putting a copy of fossil.exe on the USB drive so
that you don't have to download/install it on every PC.

Andy
-- 
TAI64 timestamp: 400058842033


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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said "Martin Irvine" on Fri, 20 Jan 2017 19:32:51 +1030:

> In my case, it seems to me the master repository would be the relevant
> repository file on my Flash Drive,  but when my Flash Drive is plugged
> into the  machine I  am working  on, the files  on it  are effectively
> local, not remote. So, when I sit down  to work at a PC, should I copy
> the repository file  for the project I  need to work on  onto the PC's
> local hard drive, then  open the version of the code  I need to access
> from this  copy of the repository,  or should I just  open the project
> repository directly from my Flash Drive ?

I think the answer to that question  depends on how much you want copies
of your projects on those PCs. Does the PC that you attch your USB drive
to need  to have a copy  of the project all  the time, or only  when you
plug in the USB drive?

If it needs  to have access to  the project after you  have removed your
USB drive, then you  should clone the project from the  USB drive to the
PCs local drive  and open a working directory there.  Then when you plug
in your USB  to the PC, run  ``fossil sync all'' (if you  have more than
one project) to synchronize all changes.

If on the  other hand, the PC  does not need access to  the project when
the USB  drive is  not present,  you could open  up a  working directory
directly on the USB drive. Special  consideration may need to be made if
you are  sharing the USB  drive between multiple operating  systems, but
you  already said  you  were  working exclusively  on  Windows, so  this
shouldn't be a problem to worry about at this stage.

One thing you do need to do, however, is to make sure that you sync your
changes from your USB drive to somewhere  else so that if your USB drive
dies, you don't lose everything.

Andy
-- 
TAI64 timestamp: 400058841fd8


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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Richard Hipp]

On 1/20/17, Artur Shepilko  wrote:
>
> If I understood it correctly, your main criteria are:
> 1) One flash drive -- use of flash drive to keep all "master" project
> repos on it
> 5) Keep it tidy :) -- leave no project files behind on the PCs
>

Let's keep in mind that flash drives are notoriously unreliable.  They
will wear out and fail suddenly and catastrophically.  They are great
for transferring information from one machine to another, but you
should never keep valuable information only on a flash drive.  Always
assume that your flash drive will whip itself clean the next time you
plug it in, and have a suitable recovery plan.
-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Artur Shepilko]

This sounds familiar, a "pocket-sync" protocol or "virus-taxi" :)
Needs a robust anti-virus for protection.

If I understood it correctly, your main criteria are:
1) One flash drive -- use of flash drive to keep all "master" project
repos on it
2) Many PCs -- work on any project at many field-PC's
3) Two-way sync -- sync project repo changes across all involved PC
without the need for network/internet
4) Extra backup -- have a backup for the project repos
5) Keep it tidy :) -- leave no project files behind on the PCs

Fossil is definitely suitable for such a "pocket" solution as it does
not need an installation and can be run directly.
Your case is a good example for DVCS use, yet lacking internet/network
the only sync option is via local file-system.

As was already mentioned, using the flash drive for both repos and
work would make this self-contained.
This way all changes are always on the flash drive, so the sync is
kinda implicit.

To enforce the central role of the flash drive, you may want to setup
some kind of a "workspace" on it, maybe have it mapped to the same
drive-letter on all of the PCs (with `subst` or `net use` command).
Also add some scripts to assist you in setup and sync.

For this to work out, you may need to have the flash drive partition
set up with Everyone:Read/Write/Delete NTFS security, so that the
potentially different user-SIDs on the PCs could write to the flash
drive. OR, well, have it formatted FAT32.

Also, you probably want to have the actual "master" repos set up on
your own "trusted" PC, instead of the flash dirve for obvious reasons
so it does not get lost-in-action :)

POSSIBLE WORKFLOW

plug to "trusted" PC:
1) setup actual "master" Fossil repos on your own "trusted" PC, add
users, serve the repos if desired, backup appropriately
2) setup the flash-drive, format, populate with needed tools, scripts etc.
3) setup the flash-bound workspace environment
4) sync workspace with the "trusted" repos

once plugged to any field-PC:
5) setup the flash-bound workspace environment
6) do work in the workspace, commit as needed (implicitly to the flash)
7) if can connect to the "trusted" PC, sync the repos

once back at "trusted" PC:
8) setup the flash-bound workspace environment
9) sync workspace and "trusted" repos

POSSIBLE WORKSPACE

\devel
  |-env
  |-fossils
  |-tools
  |-projects
  |-builds

Each project has its own repo in fossils:
  fossils\projectX.fossil

Project work-copies are fetched from resp. fossil and created as
needed (one only or per revision, PC, case etc.), commit/branch as
needed:
  projects\projectX-try-something

Preferrably do out-of-source builds, so it's easier to track source
changes, or potentially re-assign build dir to host's HDD for speed:
  builds\projectX-try-something

LOGICAL ENV

DEVENV => %DEVDRIVE%\env
DEVFOSSILS => %DEVDRIVE%\fossils
DEVPROJECTS => %DEVDRIVE%\projects
DEVBUILDS => %DEVDRIVE%\builds

Environment variables are set up from script (shortcut), which would
assign DEVDRIVE and open a CMD prompt in the workspace:
\devel\env\setupdev.cmd

DEVDRIVE is basically a substitute for FLASHDIRVE:\devel, whatever
letter auto-assigned to the flash drive by the system.
Preferably DEVDRIVE should be set the same on all PC's, perhaps some
least used bottom letters (??W:)
This allows re-use of the project work-copies on different field-PCs,
as Fossil saves path of the opened Fossil repo.


TWO-WAY REPO SYNC

field-PC to flash-"master":
it's implicit, just commit and update as needed from within the
flash-bound workspace.

flash-"master" to "trusted"-PC:
It's bound to the way how the flash-"master" was cloned (//file, or
URL), it should be saved in the repo.
Preferably it's via URL, so you may sync even while on a field-PC (if
networked):
   fossil sync

EXAMPLE SESSION

- plug the flash into a field-PC, open CMD prompt, run setup:
  F:\devel\env\setupdev
- this assigns the DEVDRIVE, sets up environment, changes path to DEVPROJECTS:
  W:\projects
- checkout a working-copy of a project repo
  mkdir projectX-try-something
  cd projectX-try-something
  fossil open "%DEVFOSSILS%\projectX.fossil"  revision123
  fossil user default %DEVUSER% --user %DEVUSER%
- OR when exists already, sync local if needed
  fossil update
- do development, test, commit changes
  fossil commit
- done, clean up, deassign the DEVDRIVE, close prompt:
  closedev

- plug the flash into "trusted"-PC, open CMD, run setup:
  H:\devel\env\setupdev
- this assigns the DEVDRIVE, sets up environment, changes path to DEVPROJECTS:
  W:\projects
- sync all repos to "trusted", script that walks through all .fossil
files in DEVFOSSILS and does "fossil sync %TRUSTEDREPOURL%"
  syncrepos

THE END :)

That's the general idea, sorry for the long post. It's probably easier
to implement this than describe.
Hope you'd find this useful.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 3:02 AM, Martin Irvine
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am new to Software Configuration Management systems, but am 

Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Richard Hipp]

On 1/20/17, Javier Guerra Giraldez  wrote:
> On 20 January 2017 at 13:08, Richard Hipp  wrote:
>> But have you considered doing it using your network?  Are all of your
>> machines at least intermittently connected to a network?
>>
>> So on some central machine that is usually accessible to the others,
>> put all of your master repositories in a folder named (for example)
>> C:\fossils.
>
>
> chiselapp.com offers private repositories.

Or you can get a $10/month Linode (https://www.linode.com/pricing) and
set it up as your private server.  That gives that added advantage of
being an off-site backup in case a disaster (ex: fire) destroys your
whole lab.

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Javier Guerra Giraldez]

On 20 January 2017 at 13:08, Richard Hipp  wrote:
> But have you considered doing it using your network?  Are all of your
> machines at least intermittently connected to a network?
>
> So on some central machine that is usually accessible to the others,
> put all of your master repositories in a folder named (for example)
> C:\fossils.


chiselapp.com offers private repositories.

-- 
Javier
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Richard Hipp]

On 1/20/17, Martin Irvine  wrote:
>
> I am hoping that Fossil will assist me in  making it as simple as
> possible for me to ensure I always have all versions of the code for every
> project accessible to me when I sit down to work at any particular PC.
>

Lots of good answers already on how to do this with flash drives

But have you considered doing it using your network?  Are all of your
machines at least intermittently connected to a network?

So on some central machine that is usually accessible to the others,
put all of your master repositories in a folder named (for example)
C:\fossils.  Then on that machine run the command "fossil serve
c:\fossils" and leave it running.  Or you can set up a windows service
using the "fossil winsrv" command - I normally run on Unix so I'm not
as familiar with that approach, but is well documented and might work
better for you.

On all other machines do:  "fossil clone
http://first.machine.ip.addr/name-of-repo.fossil ." - this will clone
the repositories on the other machines.  They will autosync back to
the master.

Before going off-network, do "fossil all pull".  Then you can work off
network for a while, using the --nosync option when you commit.  Then
when you go back on network, just run "fossil all push" to transmit
all changes from all repositories back to the masters.

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Luca Ferrari]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Martin Irvine
 wrote:
> A possible additional complicating factor in the “right” way to do all this
> is that typically, when I finish working at a PC I often will not want to
> leave a copy of the source code or the repository on the PC (i.e., on a
> customer’s hardware).  I understand deleting the local copies of the
> repositories undermines the redundancy and backup benefits of using a
> Distributed SCM system, but I guess I will address this by leaving copies of
> the repositories on my own PCs and also ensuring I regularly make backup
> copies of the repository files on the Flash Drive.

Up to this I was ready to suggest you to use pull/sync between the
master copy (flash drive) and local copies on each computer. Since you
don't want to leave working copies around the PCs, working with the
flash drive only will do the trick, even if backups are much more
important.

Luca
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Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Johan Kuuse]

Hi,

>From what I understand from your situation, is that you move between
several computers.
To not worry about spreading several copies of your repositories and/or
working copies to these computers, I would suggest you to work solely on
the flash drive.
As you mention that your projects are relatively small, there should be no
disk space problems storing everything on your flash drive.

Quick start:
1. Open a DOS prompt
2. cd to your flash drive
3. Create the directory structure you want. (I use a single directory
"repos" for all repositories, and a source directory with a subdirectory
for each project's working copy. Your directory layout may differ.)
4. cd to the "repos" directory and create the repository: "fossil new
yourproject.fossil"
5. cd to the source subdirectory and get a working copy: "fossil open
/path/to/repos/yourproject.fossil"
6. Create/Edit files.
7. Add newly created files: "fossil add file1 file2 ..."
8. Commit changes: fossil commit -m "Your commit message"
9. Optional: View your repository in a browser: "fossil ui"

Using one single point for your repository and for your working copy means
that you never need to use "fossil update" nor "fossil clone".

Best Regards,
Johan


El 20 ene. 2017 10:02, "Martin Irvine" 
escribió:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am new to Software Configuration Management systems, but am now
> interested in using Fossil.  I have been reviewing the documentation
> on-and-off for a few days, and have played with the program a little, but I
> am still unsure how to most appropriately use it to meet my needs, so I
> would appreciate any advice anyone would like to offer on the following use
> scenario.
>
>
>
> I am working exclusively in Windows environments.  I am a sole developer,
> often working on a number of relatively small projects at a time.  For the
> time being at least, I do not expect to make much use of forking and
> branching capabilities – I like to think my code development generally
> progresses fairly linearly.  But I regularly need to access and update my
> code at a number of usually standalone PCs - that is, they are never
> networked to each other and often do not even have internet access.
>
>
>
> I am hoping that Fossil will assist me in two ways, keeping track of
> milestones in my codebases including providing the ability to easily
> restore a previous version for testing purposes, and also making it as
> simple as possible for me to ensure I always have all versions of the code
> for every project accessible to me when I sit down to work at any
> particular PC.
>
>
>
> To achieve the second objective, I expect to make a point of always
> carrying a USB Flash Drive with me as I move from PC to PC.  I expect this
> Flash Drive should contain a number of repository files, one for each
> project I am concerned with.  I expect when I sit down at any particular PC
> I should be able to extract from the relevant repository on this Flash
> Drive whichever version of whichever project I need to access.  Similarly,
> when I “finish” working at this PC if I wish to retain any changes I have
> made I expect I should “commit” these changes back to relevant repository
> on the Flash Drive in some way.  But the most appropriate way to do all
> this is unclear to me.
>
>
>
> I understand Fossil is generally intended to work with a local copy of a
> project’s repository on each machine’s local hard disk, and with a master
> repository accessed remotely when required via a network or internet
> connection.  In my case, it seems to me the master repository would be the
> relevant repository file on my Flash Drive, but when my Flash Drive is
> plugged into the machine I am working on, the files on it are effectively
> local, not remote.  So, when I sit down to work at a PC, should I copy the
> repository file for the project I need to work on onto the PC’s local hard
> drive, then open the version of the code I need to access from this copy of
> the repository, or should I just open the project repository directly from
> my Flash Drive ?  Additionally, if I should copy the repository onto the
> local hard disk, should I simply copy the repository file using the
> operating system, or should I use Fossil to clone it to the local hard disk
> (I do not really understand the difference here) ?  Then, when I finish
> working at the PC, if I wish to incorporate any changes I have made back
> into the repository on my Flash Drive, should I update this directly into
> the repository on my Flash Drive, or into a copy of the repository on the
> PC’s local hard disk ?  If the later, should I then simply copy the updated
> repository file onto my Flash Drive (overwriting the previous repository
> file), or should I “pull” or “push” the changes into the repository file on
> the Flash Drive – can I even do this, when the hard disk based repository
> and the Flash Drive based repository files are effectively both local files
> on the same PC ?  I guess 

Re: [fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Roberto Henriquez]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 19:32:51 +1030
"Martin Irvine"  wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> 
> I am new to Software Configuration Management systems, but am now
> interested in using Fossil.  I have been reviewing the documentation
> on-and-off for a few days, and have played with the program a little,
> but I am still unsure how to most appropriately use it to meet my
> needs, so I would appreciate any advice anyone would like to offer on
> the following use scenario.
> 
>  
> 
> I am working exclusively in Windows environments.  I am a sole
> developer, often working on a number of relatively small projects at
> a time.  For the time being at least, I do not expect to make much
> use of forking and branching capabilities - I like to think my code
> development generally progresses fairly linearly.  But I regularly
> need to access and update my code at a number of usually standalone
> PCs - that is, they are never networked to each other and often do
> not even have internet access.
> 
> 

Hi,

I've been using a flash drive for some time in a similar fashion as
what you describe, but only for syncing, not as a working copy.

In my case, I had the fossil repos sync with a repo in the flash
drive. This can be done by setting autosync to off and syncing only
before starting to work and just before leaving the computer for the
day. This way the flash drive's repos act as 'master' or 'remote'
repository.

When beginning work in a computer for the first time you would only
need to 'fossil clone' the fossil repo from the flash drive into a
local fossil repo; then set autosync to off. To do this, you just need
to mount the flash drive and then issue a 'fossil clone' command,
passing the path to the fossil file in the flash drive as the location
to clone from.

If you want to keep a backup you just need to have a synced copy in
your own computers. When you need to erase the repo in a client's host
you just do so, as the master copy stays unaffected in the flash
drive.

Hope this helps.


-- 
Roberto Henríquez Laurent
robe...@freekeylabs.com
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[fossil-users] Using Fossil SCM with Master Repositories held on a Flash Drive ?

[Martin Irvine]

Hi,
 

I am new to Software Configuration Management systems, but am now interested in 
using Fossil.  I have been reviewing the documentation on-and-off for a few 
days, and have played with the program a little, but I am still unsure how to 
most appropriately use it to meet my needs, so I would appreciate any advice 
anyone would like to offer on the following use scenario.

 

I am working exclusively in Windows environments.  I am a sole developer, often 
working on a number of relatively small projects at a time.  For the time being 
at least, I do not expect to make much use of forking and branching 
capabilities - I like to think my code development generally progresses fairly 
linearly.  But I regularly need to access and update my code at a number of 
usually standalone PCs - that is, they are never networked to each other and 
often do not even have internet access.

 

I am hoping that Fossil will assist me in two ways, keeping track of milestones 
in my codebases including providing the ability to easily restore a previous 
version for testing purposes, and also making it as simple as possible for me 
to ensure I always have all versions of the code for every project accessible 
to me when I sit down to work at any particular PC.

 

To achieve the second objective, I expect to make a point of always carrying a 
USB Flash Drive with me as I move from PC to PC.  I expect this Flash Drive 
should contain a number of repository files, one for each project I am 
concerned with.  I expect when I sit down at any particular PC I should be able 
to extract from the relevant repository on this Flash Drive whichever version 
of whichever project I need to access.  Similarly, when I "finish" working at 
this PC if I wish to retain any changes I have made I expect I should "commit" 
these changes back to relevant repository on the Flash Drive in some way.  But 
the most appropriate way to do all this is unclear to me.

 

I understand Fossil is generally intended to work with a local copy of a 
project's repository on each machine's local hard disk, and with a master 
repository accessed remotely when required via a network or internet 
connection.  In my case, it seems to me the master repository would be the 
relevant repository file on my Flash Drive, but when my Flash Drive is plugged 
into the machine I am working on, the files on it are effectively local, not 
remote.  So, when I sit down to work at a PC, should I copy the repository file 
for the project I need to work on onto the PC's local hard drive, then open the 
version of the code I need to access from this copy of the repository, or 
should I just open the project repository directly from my Flash Drive ?  
Additionally, if I should copy the repository onto the local hard disk, should 
I simply copy the repository file using the operating system, or should I use 
Fossil to clone it to the local hard disk (I do not really understand the 
difference here) ?  Then, when I finish working at the PC, if I wish to 
incorporate any changes I have made back into the repository on my Flash Drive, 
should I update this directly into the repository on my Flash Drive, or into a 
copy of the repository on the PC's local hard disk ?  If the later, should I 
then simply copy the updated repository file onto my Flash Drive (overwriting 
the previous repository file), or should I "pull" or "push" the changes into 
the repository file on the Flash Drive - can I even do this, when the hard disk 
based repository and the Flash Drive based repository files are effectively 
both local files on the same PC ?  I guess I'm getting a bit confused here.

 

A possible additional complicating factor in the "right" way to do all this is 
that typically, when I finish working at a PC I often will not want to leave a 
copy of the source code or the repository on the PC (i.e., on a customer's 
hardware).  I understand deleting the local copies of the repositories 
undermines the redundancy and backup benefits of using a Distributed SCM 
system, but I guess I will address this by leaving copies of the repositories 
on my own PCs and also ensuring I regularly make backup copies of the 
repository files on the Flash Drive.

 

So any thoughts, experience or advice on the most appropriate way to use Fossil 
in the above scenario would be most welcome, thank you.




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