[Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Encarta is dead [1]. Anyone willing to talk with Microsoft about getting materials for Wikipedia? [1] - http://encarta.msn.com/guide_page_FAQ/FAQ.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Oh, M$ 2009/3/31 Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com Encarta is dead [1]. Anyone willing to talk with Microsoft about getting materials for Wikipedia? [1] - http://encarta.msn.com/guide_page_FAQ/FAQ.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/ My blog: http://shizhao.org twitter: https://twitter.com/shizhao [[zh:User:Shizhao]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Milos Rancic wrote: Encarta is dead [1]. Anyone willing to talk with Microsoft about getting materials for Wikipedia? [1] - http://encarta.msn.com/guide_page_FAQ/FAQ.html There's already some effort being made by the Communications Committee to reach out. --Michael Snow ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Well wow. FMF 2009/3/31 shi zhao shiz...@gmail.com Oh, M$ 2009/3/31 Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com Encarta is dead [1]. Anyone willing to talk with Microsoft about getting materials for Wikipedia? [1] - http://encarta.msn.com/guide_page_FAQ/FAQ.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/ My blog: http://shizhao.org twitter: https://twitter.com/shizhao [[zh:User:Shizhao]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Licensing transition: opposing points of view
I don't want to open a new thread because I have on my mind something related to this issue, while it is not connected directly to the present license migration. At the other side, it is a licensing question of the future. Because some articles have thousands of editors, usually it is not reasonable to list them all in some random derivative work. Because of that the recommendation is to use a link. But, we are not so far from the point when listing all links of previous works wouldn't be reasonable. Imagine that a lot of universities are contributing to the free knowledge corpus and that they are using each other's works. Imagine that a number of companies are interested in such knowledge sharing, too. We would easily get thousands of links for a single page. So, the ultimate copyleft license will be PD-SA. Other thoughts? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
The Encarta people were very unprecise about what they are going to do in future... So, this means that there remains no big encyclopedia but ours? Except Britannica? And what about the situation in French, Italian etc., has anyone an overview about that? Then I also ask myself in how far this evolution is to be credited mainly to Wikipedia, or has it been the Internet in general that killed the dead-tree-encyclopedias. I remember that in 1999 or 2000 I already did not buy a paper encyclopedia because of the Internet. Kind regards Ziko 2009/3/31 Maria Fanucchi marialado...@gmail.com RIP Encarta. For better or for worse, it was for many people, especially children, the first encyclopedia they ever encountered. It may eventually have sparked the interest of, and inspired, more than a few Wikipedians. Let's hope some of their material can be released (I'm hoping specifically for some of the multimedia, such as snippets of music made with rare instruments, and the sound files of letters, numbers and various phrases said in many languages, by native speakers). Maria [[User:Arria Belli]] 2009/3/31 David Moran fordmadoxfr...@gmail.com Well wow. FMF 2009/3/31 shi zhao shiz...@gmail.com Oh, M$ 2009/3/31 Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com Encarta is dead [1]. Anyone willing to talk with Microsoft about getting materials for Wikipedia? [1] - http://encarta.msn.com/guide_page_FAQ/FAQ.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/ My blog: http://shizhao.org twitter: https://twitter.com/shizhao [[zh:User:Shizhao]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
2009/3/31 Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.com: So, this means that there remains no big encyclopedia but ours? Except Britannica? And what about the situation in French, Italian etc., has anyone an overview about that? Enciclopèdia Catalana [1] is a very good free-as-in-beer online encyclopedia in the Catalan Language. Many of its articles about Catalan culture are also translated into English. (To see if an article has an English version, click the Encyclopaedia button.) The same company also offers at least three comprehensive dictionaries - the general monolingual Gran Diccionari (complete with full conjugations and etymologies), the excellent DIDAC for children [2], and Multilingüe - Catalan-Spanish-German-English-French [3]. I don't understand how do they do it without any advertising. Maybe the government helps it, but that is just a guess. Anyway, the fact is that it is a strong competitor against the Catalan Wikipedia and Wiktionary and it is also a strong competitor against English Wikipedia for people who seek information about Catalan culture. So the answer is No - not all major encyclopedias are dead, and that is a Good Thing. [1] www.grec.cat [2] http://www.grec.net/cgibin/esc00.pgm/ [3] http://www.grec.cat/cgibin/mlt00.pgm -- Amir Elisha Aharoni heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus: http://amire80.livejournal.com We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace. - T. Moore ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Flagged revs poll take 2
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ruwrote: CC'd this to Foundation-l. Would you mind adding links to the former and present dsiscussions? Not all of us are en.wp discussion regulars. Thanks Cheers Yaroslav 1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Flagged_protection_and_patrolled_revisions/Poll 2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Flagged_protection_and_patrolled_revisions 3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Flagged_revisions/Trial 4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Flagged_revisions/Trial 5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Update_on_BLP_.2F_Flagged_Protection_.2F_Flagged_Revs 6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_45#Action_needed_on_flagged_revisions 7) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_44#Why_I_am_asking_Flagged_Revisions_to_be_turned_on_now 8) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Flagged_revisions I'm sure there are dozens more major discussions archived in various places. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Tomorrow is April 1st ... On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.com wrote: The Encarta people were very unprecise about what they are going to do in future... So, this means that there remains no big encyclopedia but ours? Except Britannica? And what about the situation in French, Italian etc., has anyone an overview about that? Then I also ask myself in how far this evolution is to be credited mainly to Wikipedia, or has it been the Internet in general that killed the dead-tree-encyclopedias. I remember that in 1999 or 2000 I already did not buy a paper encyclopedia because of the Internet. As a young student of linguistics I was interested in Sumerian language. In 1996 I went to the National library of Serbia and took Britannica's 1995 edition. So, I've got the next references: * Arno Poebel, Grundzüge der sumerischen Grammatik (1923), partly out of date, but still the only full grammar of Sumerian in all its stages; * Adam Falkenstein, Grammatik der Sprache Gudeas von Lagaš, 2 vol. (1949–50), a very thorough grammar of the New Sumerian dialect, * Das Sumerische (1959), a very brief but comprehensive survey of the Sumerian language; * Cyril J. Gadd, Sumerian Reading Book (1924), outdated but the only grammatical tool in English; * Samuel N. Kramer, The Sumerians (1963), provides a general introduction to Sumerian civilization. Anecdote around this is that I was very confident in my linguistic knowledge and that I thought that I am able to understand linguistically German from 1923 (Arno Poebel's book). So, I went to the Library of Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts and asked them to make an inter-library borrowing from some German library. With a lot of enthusiasm I've started to read it... Of course, it was a complete disaster: I wasn't able to take any information. Copy of that book is still somewhere in my library. One year later, in 1997, I tried to find something about Sumerian language at the net. Hm. I found at least two sites with full grammars of Sumerian dialects. So, I've finished with [traditional] encyclopedias. BTW, the list of references above is from Britannica's [present] online edition [1]. Nothing was changed since 1995 edition. I remember well the list. References from the English Wikipedia's article [2] are: * Edzard, Dietz Otto (2003). Sumerian Grammar. Leiden: Brill. ISBN 90-04-12608-2. (grammar treatment for the advanced student) * Thomsen, Marie-Louise (2001) [1984]. The Sumerian Language: An Introduction to Its History and Grammatical Structure. Copenhagen: Akademisk Forlag. ISBN 87-500-3654-8. (Well-organized with over 800 translated text excerpts.) * Diakonoff, I. M. (1976). Ancient Writing and Ancient Written Language: Pitfalls and Peculiarities in the Study of Sumerian. Assyriological Studies 20 (Sumerological Studies in Honor of Thorkild Jakobsen): 99–121. * Rubio, Gonzalo (2007). Sumerian Morphology. In Morphologies of Asia and Africa, vol. 2, pp. 1327-1379. Edited by Alan S. Kaye.. Winona Lake, Ind.: Eisenbrauns. ISBN 1-57506-109-0. * Attinger, Pascal (1993). Eléments de linguistique sumérienne: La construction de du11/e/di. Göttingen: VandenhoeckRuprecht. ISBN 37-2780-869-1. * Volk, Konrad (1997). A Sumerian Reader. Rome: Pontificio Istituto Biblico. ISBN 88-7653-610-8. (collection of Sumerian texts) * Michalowski, Piotr, 'Sumerian as an Ergative Language', Journal of Cuneiform Studies 32 (1980), 86-103. [1] - http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/573229/Sumerian-language [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Tomorrow is April 1st ... what is special about it? gmail birthday? -- Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] PGP-keysign at the tech/chapter-meeting
Hello all, I think that when such a number of people come together it would be nice to have a key-signing in Berlin. If you have no idea, what a key-signing is, look at the wikipedia-article [[en:Key_signing_party]]. If you don't own a pgp-key yet and are an linux-user there are several how-tos on the net to get one fast (there are how-tos for windows-users too, but it's more complex, but that doesn't need to stop you). Because there is no time (and place) for a hash-methode-keysigning (you know, all standing in a line for hours ;)), I would organise a list-methode-keysigning. That means that you send me *Your nick (if you have one) *Your realname (optional, but some people don't sign non-realname-keys) *Your keynumber *Your key-hash *Your key (if it is not on normal key-servers) to p...@daniel.baur4.info. I will make a list of that data. Then I (respectively the verein) will print out several copies of that list and place them at central places (like the reception or the c-base) for hand-out. You can also place sticker on your nameplate (to let people easier find you) if you like (I have colorful sticker-dots here ;)). You will take such an list and start looking for other people, that stand on the list, check your hash on his/her list and his/her hash on your list and mark your name as checked on his/her list and his/her name on your list if all is right. Then continue until all entries on your list are checked (or the meeting is over). It would be very nice if many people would participate to increase the level of trust (at least the key-trust) between us. Follow up to foundation-list. Sincerly, DaB. P.S: Even if you come just to the party on saturday, you can take part! 2.P.S: I organize a key-signing for the first time, so please be patient if I did anything wrong. -- Diese eMail sollte mit dem PGP-Schlüssel 0x2D3EE2D42B255885 digital signiert sein. Bitte beachten Sie, das unsignierte eMails beliebig gefälscht sein können. Achten Sie daher auf Signaturen. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Maybe we could use that $20,000 that Philip Greenspun donated back in 2007 to purchase the Encarta illustrations (since it doesn't appear that that money is ever going to be used otherwise). Ryan Kaldari On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com wrote: Tomorrow is April 1st ... what is special about it? gmail birthday? -- Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
Ryan Kaldari wrote: Maybe we could use that $20,000 that Philip Greenspun donated back in 2007 to purchase the Encarta illustrations (since it doesn't appear that that money is ever going to be used otherwise). $20,000 means practically nothing to Microsoft. It's far more likely that they could be persuaded to donate Encarta's content as a PR gesture. Of course, they might have other plans. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Toolserver-l] PGP-keysign at the tech/chapter-meeting
There's another way to do a key-signing, faster than 1-to-1. You have everyone have a list and each one presents itself, giving their fingerprint. I guess you'll have a brief introduction at the beginning where everyone presents himself? If you were to say I'm Daniel (aka as DaB), the evil toolserver dictator, you'd also add and my fingerprint is 3F70 85CA F69E 03B5 063B 3B38 2D3E E2D4 2B25 5885 Depending on their key-signing policy may request you later some kind of id, but at least they have seen someone with that key claiming to be you, and can remember your face to ask you instead of wandering about. Also see the Sassaman methods. http://keysigning.org/methods/sassaman-projected http://keysigning.org/methods/sassaman-efficient ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] NYTimes article: Exploring Fact City
David Gerard, 29/03/2009 21:14: 2009/3/29 The Cunctator cuncta...@gmail.com: A lovely article. The only pity is it doesn't note how much of this social theory of wikis owes to Sunir Shah's pioneering work on MeatballWiki. MeatballWiki is all but unknown to most Wikipedians, let alone the outside world. That's not good. I recommend it to all here. For example (just to give a starting point; then you won't be able to stop reading this wiki!), on the wiki/city subject, see these five years old pages: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?OnlineCommunitiesAreCityStates http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikisAsVillages And, since we talk over FlaggedRevisions, this is topical: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiLifeCycle http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?GatedCommunity http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?LimitGrowth Nemo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Hello, A couple of days ago I have contacted our project manager in San Francisco who is dealing with the improvement of the usability of Wikipedia. I have done this interview for [[de:Wikipedia:Kurier]] and translated it to German, but originally it is in English and so I thought that I can also send it to this list. Kind regards Ziko http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier *Kimura: Wikipedia Usability by Better „Ranking“* *Wikipedia is difficult to edit, many people say, and Wikimedia Foundation encountered the problem by installing Naoki Kimura as a project manager. Her team will make proposals to improve Wikipedia Usability. In an interview with Ziko van Dijk she unravels test results and the next step.* ZvD: Dear Naoki Kimura, previously you told us that you would run some tests about the problems of our new users. NK: Yes, first results confirmed that new Wikipedia users find it very difficult to link to the already existing community, to fit in and to learn the rules. Most difficult this is because the rules change and there is no clear authority. You don't know whom to direct to. ZvD: That is exactly the Wiki principle which made Wikipedia big. NK: But is it suitable to keep Wikipedia running? We lose a lot of people or scare them away even before they join, the statistics show us. Wikipedia can only go on by making the collaboration better. ZvD: So if I am a new user, what will change? NK: In fact, as a new user you already have only limited rights compared to more experienced users. You cannot vote, you cannot sight versions in Wikipedias with flagged revisions, and so on. This must become more systematic. So as a new user you will start as a „rookie user“, and after six months, after trainings and tests, you might become an „advanced user“ and later a „user major“. A bigger step will be to become an „editor adjunct“ etc. In the end, you can become a „senior editor general“. ZvD: I see. And what about non editors? NK: You mean developers and admins? It will be the same or similar. ZvD: And the commander-in-chief of the three service branches will be Jimmy Wales? NK: Yes of course, that will not change at all. ZvD: So the word edit war“ will get a totally new meaning? NK: No, there will be no edit wars at all! There will be no quarrels, no uncertainties, no cybermobbing. We will even be able abolish the talk pages. ZvD: Because everyone knows who is senior and has what rights. NK: Exactly. ZvD: But will Wikipedians accept such a system? NK: That is funny, you know. I worried about that until I presented the idea to the staff members in San Francisco. They told me that they are all Star Trek fans and when they were children at play, they called each other captain“ or midshipman“ or commander“. ZvD: Naoki, I wish you all the best for implementation (it will certainly not be easy) and thank you for this interview. NK: Dismissed. --- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
*No, there will be no edit wars at all! There will be no quarrels, no uncertainties, no cybermobbing* Oh, I can't wait to see THIS. DM On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.comwrote: Hello, A couple of days ago I have contacted our project manager in San Francisco who is dealing with the improvement of the usability of Wikipedia. I have done this interview for [[de:Wikipedia:Kurier]] and translated it to German, but originally it is in English and so I thought that I can also send it to this list. Kind regards Ziko http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier *Kimura: Wikipedia Usability by Better „Ranking“* *Wikipedia is difficult to edit, many people say, and Wikimedia Foundation encountered the problem by installing Naoki Kimura as a project manager. Her team will make proposals to improve Wikipedia Usability. In an interview with Ziko van Dijk she unravels test results and the next step.* ZvD: Dear Naoki Kimura, previously you told us that you would run some tests about the problems of our new users. NK: Yes, first results confirmed that new Wikipedia users find it very difficult to link to the already existing community, to fit in and to learn the rules. Most difficult this is because the rules change and there is no clear authority. You don't know whom to direct to. ZvD: That is exactly the Wiki principle which made Wikipedia big. NK: But is it suitable to keep Wikipedia running? We lose a lot of people or scare them away even before they join, the statistics show us. Wikipedia can only go on by making the collaboration better. ZvD: So if I am a new user, what will change? NK: In fact, as a new user you already have only limited rights compared to more experienced users. You cannot vote, you cannot sight versions in Wikipedias with flagged revisions, and so on. This must become more systematic. So as a new user you will start as a „rookie user“, and after six months, after trainings and tests, you might become an „advanced user“ and later a „user major“. A bigger step will be to become an „editor adjunct“ etc. In the end, you can become a „senior editor general“. ZvD: I see. And what about non editors? NK: You mean developers and admins? It will be the same or similar. ZvD: And the commander-in-chief of the three service branches will be Jimmy Wales? NK: Yes of course, that will not change at all. ZvD: So the word edit war“ will get a totally new meaning? NK: No, there will be no edit wars at all! There will be no quarrels, no uncertainties, no cybermobbing. We will even be able abolish the talk pages. ZvD: Because everyone knows who is senior and has what rights. NK: Exactly. ZvD: But will Wikipedians accept such a system? NK: That is funny, you know. I worried about that until I presented the idea to the staff members in San Francisco. They told me that they are all Star Trek fans and when they were children at play, they called each other captain“ or midshipman“ or commander“. ZvD: Naoki, I wish you all the best for implementation (it will certainly not be easy) and thank you for this interview. NK: Dismissed. --- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Just a point of information: Her name is Naoko Komura, not Naoki Kimura. -Dan On Mar 31, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote: Hello, A couple of days ago I have contacted our project manager in San Francisco who is dealing with the improvement of the usability of Wikipedia. I have done this interview for [[de:Wikipedia:Kurier]] and translated it to German, but originally it is in English and so I thought that I can also send it to this list. Kind regards Ziko http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier *Kimura: Wikipedia Usability by Better „Ranking“* *Wikipedia is difficult to edit, many people say, and Wikimedia Foundation encountered the problem by installing Naoki Kimura as a project manager. Her team will make proposals to improve Wikipedia Usability. In an interview with Ziko van Dijk she unravels test results and the next step.* ZvD: Dear Naoki Kimura, previously you told us that you would run some tests about the problems of our new users. NK: Yes, first results confirmed that new Wikipedia users find it very difficult to link to the already existing community, to fit in and to learn the rules. Most difficult this is because the rules change and there is no clear authority. You don't know whom to direct to. ZvD: That is exactly the Wiki principle which made Wikipedia big. NK: But is it suitable to keep Wikipedia running? We lose a lot of people or scare them away even before they join, the statistics show us. Wikipedia can only go on by making the collaboration better. ZvD: So if I am a new user, what will change? NK: In fact, as a new user you already have only limited rights compared to more experienced users. You cannot vote, you cannot sight versions in Wikipedias with flagged revisions, and so on. This must become more systematic. So as a new user you will start as a „rookie user“, and after six months, after trainings and tests, you might become an „advanced user“ and later a „user major“. A bigger step will be to become an „editor adjunct“ etc. In the end, you can become a „senior editor general“. ZvD: I see. And what about non editors? NK: You mean developers and admins? It will be the same or similar. ZvD: And the commander-in-chief of the three service branches will be Jimmy Wales? NK: Yes of course, that will not change at all. ZvD: So the word edit war“ will get a totally new meaning? NK: No, there will be no edit wars at all! There will be no quarrels, no uncertainties, no cybermobbing. We will even be able abolish the talk pages. ZvD: Because everyone knows who is senior and has what rights. NK: Exactly. ZvD: But will Wikipedians accept such a system? NK: That is funny, you know. I worried about that until I presented the idea to the staff members in San Francisco. They told me that they are all Star Trek fans and when they were children at play, they called each other captain“ or midshipman“ or commander“. ZvD: Naoki, I wish you all the best for implementation (it will certainly not be easy) and thank you for this interview. NK: Dismissed. --- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjes...@gmail.com wrote: Just a point of information: Her name is Naoko Komura, not Naoki Kimura. *cough* It's not real Dan. :-) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
Hi all I just came across this[1] policy on Commons, which states that from today, non-free content is going to be allowed to be uploaded on Commons. I'm rather shocked that this was pushed through without any notice here, or anywhere, and it has become policy, going against Wikimedia's free content philosophy. Can people please input on the talk page as soon as possible please, so we can get this reversed. Thanks, -- Alex (User:Majorly) [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Non-free_content ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Fail reading comprehension is fail. I submit myself to lose. -Dan On Mar 31, 2009, at 8:34 PM, Casey Brown wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjes...@gmail.com wrote: Just a point of information: Her name is Naoko Komura, not Naoki Kimura. *cough* It's not real Dan. :-) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Al Tally majorly.w...@googlemail.comwrote: Hi all I just came across this[1] policy on Commons, which states that from today, non-free content is going to be allowed to be uploaded on Commons. I'm rather shocked that this was pushed through without any notice here, or anywhere, and it has become policy, going against Wikimedia's free content philosophy. Can people please input on the talk page as soon as possible please, so we can get this reversed. Thanks, -- Alex (User:Majorly) [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Non-free_content ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l April's fools alredy? *sigh* ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Flagged revs poll take 2
Well, the poll was closed with 80% support. It probably should have been extended, if for no other reasons than that votes continued to come in at a pretty good clip and there is no pressing reason to close it on deadline. If I were a developer or a WMF executive, I might pause at implementing a proposal for quite significant change on the English Wikipedia based on a poll with only 320 participants. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
April's fools alredy? *sigh* Apparently. As I have no desire to have my time wasted by such abuse of the mailing list, I've created a filter to delete any future e-mails from Al Tally (with whom my interactions have been uniformly negative). ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:59 AM, David Levy lifeisunf...@gmail.com wrote: April's fools alredy? *sigh* Apparently. As I have no desire to have my time wasted by such abuse of the mailing list, I've created a filter to delete any future e-mails from Al Tally (with whom my interactions have been uniformly negative). Hey, some people just lack a sense of humour. David Levy is one of them. Happy April 1 everyone else :) -- Alex (User:Majorly) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Al Tally majorly.w...@googlemail.comwrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:59 AM, David Levy lifeisunf...@gmail.com wrote: April's fools alredy? *sigh* Apparently. As I have no desire to have my time wasted by such abuse of the mailing list, I've created a filter to delete any future e-mails from Al Tally (with whom my interactions have been uniformly negative). Hey, some people just lack a sense of humour. David Levy is one of them. Happy April 1 everyone else :) -- Alex (User:Majorly) _ you'd be annoyed if you started getting lots of bogus messages and silly jokes on december 28 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
2009/4/1 Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com: you'd be annoyed if you started getting lots of bogus messages and silly jokes on december 28 Yes, because December 28 isn't the traditional day for such things. As long as it is just one day a year, it's a bit of fun. If people started doing it on random days, obviously it would be annoying. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/4/1 Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com: you'd be annoyed if you started getting lots of bogus messages and silly jokes on december 28 Yes, because December 28 isn't the traditional day for such things. As long as it is just one day a year, it's a bit of fun. If people started doing it on random days, obviously it would be annoying. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Well it CERTAINLY is in all latin america, spain and other latin countries But we refrain from imposing our sillyness to the rerst of the world ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
2009/4/1 Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/4/1 Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com: you'd be annoyed if you started getting lots of bogus messages and silly jokes on december 28 Yes, because December 28 isn't the traditional day for such things. As long as it is just one day a year, it's a bit of fun. If people started doing it on random days, obviously it would be annoying. Well it CERTAINLY is in all latin america, spain and other latin countries But we refrain from imposing our sillyness to the rerst of the world This is a (predominantly) English-language mailing list, so using those traditions used in the English-speaking world seems to make sense to me. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: This is a (predominantly) English-language mailing list, so using those traditions used in the English-speaking world seems to make sense to me. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Of course, wasting resources on april 1st is very sensical. And who cares about purported reach to the whole world and all that fancy words let's bother them with our idiotic pranks becuase we are majority and thereforewe have the right to do so Very good attitude on the wikimedia foundation list (I don't care if you do so on english wikipedia list) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Maria Fanucchi marialado...@gmail.com wrote: RIP Encarta. For better or for worse, it was for many people, especially children, the first encyclopedia they ever encountered. It may eventually have sparked the interest of, and inspired, more than a few Wikipedians. The first encyclopedia I encountered was a supermarket set, published by Grolier I think, made available one volume per week in 1991. Every grocery trip, my mother would buy me the next volume, and in a box somewhere I still have the complete set—in fact, I used them to fact-check some of my earliest Wikipedia articles, back when we were still creating pages about the commonest of things, any new content was a positive contribution, and we weren't quite so strict about citing sources. A few years later, my parents bought a copy of one of the first editions of Encarta, distributed on a single CD-ROM. Multimedia was still a buzzword, and having audio sprinkled throughout—even video, for select topics—was an amazing thing. I grew up in an anti-Microsoft household, and we ran Encarta under IBM OS/2, but despite my prejudice, I couldn't help but find Encarta the greatest thing ever. I was disappointed when I had read every article in less than a week, but the proof of concept was there. (I don't think I need to wax nostalgic any further; obviously, long story short, I got here.) So, yes, I do have some nostalgia for Encarta. Its day is long gone, and this is certainly overdue, but I've never really harbored any ill will toward it. Let's hope some of their material can be released (I'm hoping specifically for some of the multimedia, such as snippets of music made with rare instruments, and the sound files of letters, numbers and various phrases said in many languages, by native speakers). I second that. Even now, when I think about Encarta, the first thing that comes to mind is a recording they had of a Baroque piece played on the harpsichord. (Not that that's rare, but they did do a great job deciding what pieces warranted multimedia presentation, and they had some good ones.) Austin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
Pedro Sanchez wrote: Of course, wasting resources on april 1st is very sensical. And who cares about purported reach to the whole world and all that fancy words let's bother them with our idiotic pranks becuase we are majority and thereforewe have the right to do so Very good attitude on the wikimedia foundation list (I don't care if you do so on english wikipedia list) Needless to say, I wholeheartedly agree with you, Pedro. Every year, I find myself disheartened by this Anglocentric rationale for deliberate disruption. I've even mentioned 28 December when trying to explain to people that April Fools' Day isn't a worldwide custom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Innocents#Feast_days ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:56 AM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.comwrote: Then I also ask myself in how far this evolution is to be credited mainly to Wikipedia, or has it been the Internet in general that killed the dead-tree-encyclopedias. The personal computer killed the dead-tree encyclopedia. But Encarta wasn't a dead-tree encyclopedia. Whether Wikipedia, the Internet, or something else, killed the commercial encyclopedia, is a more interesting question. Maybe the US Department of Justice's Antitrust Division will look into that one. Hah, just kidding. The whole purpose of the US Department of Justice's Antitrust Division is to kill commerce. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Flagged revs poll take 2
-- On Tue, 3/31/09, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: From: Nathan nawr...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Flagged revs poll take 2 To: English Wikipedia wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org, Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 7:50 PM Well, the poll was closed with 80% support. It probably should have been extended, if for no other reasons than that votes continued to come in at a pretty good clip and there is no pressing reason to close it on deadline. If I were a developer or a WMF executive, I might pause at implementing a proposal for quite significant change on the English Wikipedia based on a poll with only 320 participants. I am afraid this one is serious. Asking Foundation staff to overrule a community decision is not going find support here. However vaguely you phrase it. Sort it out on en.WP. Birgitte SB ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue
For a couple of years I am talking to different people inside of WMF about the need for solving conversion engines issue systematically. However, all of the responses which I am getting are non-understanding (in better cases) or silence. == Why do we need conversion engines? == Unlike, for example, French, English, German and Russian, there are languages which have more than trivial internal differences. It may vary between: * slightly different orthographies, so, person who knows one orthography is not able to write in another; * slightly different language varieties (or dialects), so, person who knows one variety is not able to write in another; * different scripts, so, person who knows one script doesn't know [well] another; * some combination of the previous possibilities. Options which we have are: * Not to care about differences. The most known situation is related to the English language projects, which allows writing in both major varieties. However, difference between kilometer and kilometre is small and it belongs to the common knowledge of every educated English speaker. The other situations known to me are Persian language projects (Farsi and Dari are allowed) and Serbian language projects (Ekavian and Iyekavian allowed). Problems with such approach is that at least one group, usually a bigger one, doesn't know to write in the other variety. Speakers of Farsi don't know to write Dari, as well as speakers of Ekavian don't know to write Iyekavian. There are significant problems in keeping and expanding articles written in a variety of minority group: Even with a lot of good will, speaker of majority group has to ask a speaker of minority group to check consistency of an article, *if* there are active speakers of minority group at the project. * To make different projects. This is the case with Belarus projects. (Parts of Belarus diaspora don't want to write in the communist orthography, while the educational system (including the educational system for Belarus minority in Poland) is using that orthography.) I see that as the worst possible solution: Instead of having one project for one language system, there are two projects; which means that efforts needed to make a good source of knowledge are doubled. * To use a conversion engine. There are few of implemented conversion engines: Chinese, Serbian and Kazakh (I think that this is the full list, but I am not sure). This is the best possible solution *if* it is working. The smallest issue is in the Serbian case. All literate people in Serbia know to write in both scripts: Cyrillic and Latin. Usage of scripts is at the level of preference and rarely at the level of functional styles (usually, materials for children will be written in Cyrillic, while emails will be written usually in Latin; formal acts have to be written in Cyrillic). Chinese is a little bit more complex because there are a number of characters. However, AFAIK, Simplified and Traditional scripts share a number of characters and some of others may be guessed form context. But, again, current implementation may solve just cases which fulfill the next two conditions: (1) they are more or less straight-forward (more or less one character for one character) and (2) speakers are able to read and write (at least partially) the other script. == Problems with the current conversion engine == * Current conversion engine is able to convert the text just for reading. When you switch to edit mode, you'll are able to see just text in one script (in which article is written). This is not a problem for Serbian case and this is a small scale problem in Chinese case. However, this would be a significant problem for cases like Azerbaijani is: one Azerbaijani from Azerbaijan doesn't know Perso-Arabic script, while just educated Azerbaijanis from Iran know not so well Latin script (note that literacy in Iran is ~80%, which is quite low for Western standards; it means that one in five persons doesn't know to read and write). In other words, make a simple conversion engine, one on one, from Latin to Arabic script for English and try to read converted text. If you don't want to bother yourself with right-to-left text, try with Devanagari. * Current conversion engine converts *everything* into the output script. This means that text with mixed scripts will be converted in one. This is useful for Chinese case because contributors may write text in any script, while readers would be able to read in one of them. This is a redundant (and sometimes irritating) feature for Serbian case because no one is writing Serbian texts by mixing Cyrillic and Latin (except, of course, for scientific purposes). But, it makes the engine useless in the cases where just orthographies or language varieties need to be converted. For example, if Dari has word which form is X and meaning A (and written in Farsi as Y) and Farsi has word which form is X (and written in Dari as Z) and meaning is B, the only option
