Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
--- On Tue, 3/31/09, Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com wrote: From: Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 9:48 PM On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: This is a (predominantly) English-language mailing list, so using those traditions used in the English-speaking world seems to make sense to me. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Of course, wasting resources on april 1st is very sensical. And who cares about purported reach to the whole world and all that fancy words let's bother them with our idiotic pranks becuase we are majority and thereforewe have the right to do so Very good attitude on the wikimedia foundation list (I don't care if you do so on english wikipedia list) Right, it obviously the pompous English majority conspiring here because you received a prank from every English speaker on the list. If the list were in Spanish so every immature youth in Latin America with too much time on their hands could access it without scholarship, you would be unable to spare the rest of us on Dec 28. Follow David's example and ignore those who actually choose to waste your time and spare the rest of us your stereotyped rant. Birgitte SB ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encarta is dead
I believe a careful reading of the FAQ, while a buzzkill, casts doubt on Encarta's content being released: Microsoft's vision is that everyone around the world needs to have access to quality education, and *we believe that we can use what we’ve learned and assets we’ve accrued with offerings like Encarta to develop future technology solutions*. In doing so, we feel strongly that we are making the right investments that will help make our vision a reality. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Maria Fanucchi marialado...@gmail.com wrote: Let's hope some of their material can be released (I'm hoping specifically for some of the multimedia, such as snippets of music made with rare instruments, and the sound files of letters, numbers and various phrases said in many languages, by native speakers). I second that. Even now, when I think about Encarta, the first thing that comes to mind is a recording they had of a Baroque piece played on the harpsichord. (Not that that's rare, but they did do a great job deciding what pieces warranted multimedia presentation, and they had some good ones.) Austin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue
== What do we need? == Actually, we don't need a lot to solve this problem. I have the solution for the most important part of the problem, the linguistic one. Even if I don't have enough of time to deal with all cases, I am able to find students or professors of linguists who are willing to work on those issues for free (they would have scientific papers after the work is done). We need just a PHP programmer who is willing to work on this problem. And for a couple of years I didn't find any (even I know a lot of PHP programmers). It sounds like a good project for a directed grant. Have you tried contacting potential grant-making organisations? I imagine some awesome things could be done with as little as $100K. -- Tim Starling ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Flagged revs poll take 2
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Birgitte SB birgitte...@yahoo.com wrote: I am afraid this one is serious. Asking Foundation staff to overrule a community decision is not going find support here. However vaguely you phrase it. Sort it out on en.WP. Birgitte SB Well, it is serious, and your comment begs the question I think. For something as significant as enabling the FlaggedRevs extension, is the support of 250 editors sufficient to constitute a community decision? As I said, if I were the last decision maker before the switch is flipped, I'd have to think about that. Anyway, I suppose my comments may contribute to the FUD surrounding FlaggedRevs, which I regret. If the most recently polled version of the extension gets enabled, I'll do my best to make it work as well as possible. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue
Milos Rancic wrote:
Chinese is a little bit more complex because there are a number of
characters. However, AFAIK, Simplified and Traditional scripts share a
number of characters and some of others may be guessed form context.
Well, Chinese is not that simple, especially for the different
translations of western names into chinese, as the following examples show.
But, it makes the engine useless in the cases where just orthographies
or language varieties need to be converted. For example, if Dari has
word which form is X and meaning A (and written in Farsi as Y) and
Farsi has word which form is X (and written in Dari as Z) and meaning
is B, the only option which conversion engine gives is escape syntax
like -{ Dari: X; Farsi: Y }-. Imagine now how the wiki code would look
like if, for example, genitive case is written Dari like accusative
case in Farsi: All syntactic objects will have to be escaped; which
means that almost every sentence will have one escape from regular
rules.
As far as I know, you can define escapes globally for the whole article.
This would make an escape in every sentence unnecessary. Take as example
the following example:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%96%AF%E6%B4%9B%E5%8D%9A%E4%B8%B9%C2%B7%E7%B1%B3%E6%B4%9B%E8%88%8D%E7%BB%B4%E5%A5%87
You see on the left corner of the article (above the info-box) a
triangle sign. It explains which global escapes are used in this article
for the title and for other words. Indeed in some articles that list
could be quite long, like here:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B9%94%E6%B2%BB%C2%B7%E8%B5%AB%E4%BC%AF%E7%89%B9%C2%B7%E6%B2%83%E5%85%8B%C2%B7%E5%B8%83%E4%BB%80
Ting
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Re: [Foundation-l] PGP-keysign at the tech/chapter-meeting
DaB. wrote: Hello all, I think that when such a number of people come together it would be nice to have a key-signing in Berlin. If you have no idea, what a key-signing is, look at the wikipedia-article [[en:Key_signing_party]]. Private keys can be compromised by anyone with a whim and a few thousand dollars, either physically by compromise of the device, or remotely by social engineering or zero-day exploit. Key signing parties are premised on the idea that private keys are really private. Since they aren't, the additional security of a real-life meeting is somewhat farcical. Maybe in the crypto-anarchist fantasy future, filled with hostile corporations and goverments, it would make sense. But in the real world, I think the SSL hierarchy provides a better model. It has a central authority with some competence in identity verification and security, which can issue a revocation certificate even if someone burns your house down. And you can verify the authenticity of a public key even if you don't have any friends. My vote is for a Guitar Hero party instead. -- Tim Starling ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Ting Chen wing.phil...@gmx.de wrote: As far as I know, you can define escapes globally for the whole article. This would make an escape in every sentence unnecessary. Take as example the following example: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%96%AF%E6%B4%9B%E5%8D%9A%E4%B8%B9%C2%B7%E7%B1%B3%E6%B4%9B%E8%88%8D%E7%BB%B4%E5%A5%87 You see on the left corner of the article (above the info-box) a triangle sign. It explains which global escapes are used in this article for the title and for other words. Indeed in some articles that list could be quite long, like here: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B9%94%E6%B2%BB%C2%B7%E8%B5%AB%E4%BC%AF%E7%89%B9%C2%B7%E6%B2%83%E5%85%8B%C2%B7%E5%B8%83%E4%BB%80 This is true for logosyllabic orthographies for highly analytic languages like Chinese situation is. Alphabetic orthographies in conjunction with synthetic language (Belarus, Serbian) system would get a mess from such implementation. For example, genitive plural of one noun may be the same as the second future tense of another verb. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] PGP-keysign at the tech/chapter-meeting
2009/3/31 DaB. w...@daniel.baur4.info: Hello all, I think that when such a number of people come together it would be nice to have a key-signing in Berlin. If you have no idea, what a key-signing is, look at the wikipedia-article [[en:Key_signing_party]]. If you don't own a pgp-key yet and are an linux-user there are several how-tos on the net to get one fast (there are how-tos for windows-users too, but it's more complex, but that doesn't need to stop you). Because there is no time (and place) for a hash-methode-keysigning (you know, all standing in a line for hours ;)), I would organise a list-methode-keysigning. That means that you send me *Your nick (if you have one) *Your realname (optional, but some people don't sign non-realname-keys) *Your keynumber *Your key-hash *Your key (if it is not on normal key-servers) I think that better idea would be to try to implement RFC:2549 protocol. If successfull we could keep communication between chapters and developers meetings in case of electricy shortage in Berlin ;-) -- Tomek Polimerek Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.ptchem.lodz.pl/en/TomaszGanicz.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: It sounds like a good project for a directed grant. Have you tried contacting potential grant-making organisations? I imagine some awesome things could be done with as little as $100K. First, sorry for forgetting you. You were the only person which responded positively toward this idea :) I am thinking again about funding... Thanks for raising this idea into my mind again. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] PGP-keysign at the tech/chapter-meeting
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: Private keys can be compromised by anyone with a whim and a few thousand dollars, either physically by compromise of the device, or remotely by social engineering or zero-day exploit. Key signing parties are premised on the idea that private keys are really private. Since they aren't, the additional security of a real-life meeting is somewhat farcical. Moreover, what's to stop someone from showing up and claiming to be you? How are you going to confirm that -- by their telling you they're coming and what they look like, over the Internet? Why don't they just sign your keys over the Internet and skip the middle-man? Not to be negative or anything, sorry. (I'm not even going to be there.) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?
http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/ Should we say er, no, not our data either or ignore them? (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all commenting saying HELL YES. The question then is whether, by some obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether it's worth it anyway.) - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
Birgitte SB hett schreven: Right, it obviously the pompous English majority conspiring here because you received a prank from every English speaker on the list. If the list were in Spanish so every immature youth in Latin America with too much time on their hands could access it without scholarship, you would be unable to spare the rest of us on Dec 28. Follow David's example and ignore those who actually choose to waste your time and spare the rest of us your stereotyped rant. Birgitte SB Cultural imperialism is not confined to societies. It can be done by individuals too. And Pedro's critical remarks are aimed at individuals. No need to feel offended as a member of the English majority (except you support imposing your own cultural sillynesses on other people, in that case, feel offended). The main problem with just ignore them is: If you don't know the custom of April's Fool day, you won't know that it's a joke. And even if you know the custom you can still fall for the jokes. I am fully aware, that there will always be idiots, who don't know how to behave in an intercultural environment, but only if we tell them that they are idiots, awareness can arise for the idioticy of this behaviour. Marcus Buck ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue
Milos, thank you for the very comprehensive presentation of the problem. There are other cases that could be mentioned, it is indeed a problem touching most of the language editions. I am sceptical about automatic conversion. As you said, it is mainly a solution for reading, but not for writing, because the source text is in one specific spelling or character system. As a result there are mainly two ways to deal with that: - a split of the Wikipedias into two; this is most likely when there are other linguistic differences e.g. in dictionary. - one variety has so much support in the linguistic community that the minority is small and discouraged to create a Wikipedia of their own. In that case automatic conversion is a nice conveniency, but as editors the minority users more or less have to adapt to the majority. Alas. Kind regards Ziko 2009/4/1 Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: It sounds like a good project for a directed grant. Have you tried contacting potential grant-making organisations? I imagine some awesome things could be done with as little as $100K. First, sorry for forgetting you. You were the only person which responded positively toward this idea :) I am thinking again about funding... Thanks for raising this idea into my mind again. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Thank you Ziko. I always enjoy the unfiltered news exacerbated by the Kurier... you should broadcast your work more than once a year. And Ms. Kimura is clearly a crack dictator, she should be miked up regularly. SJ On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello, A couple of days ago I have contacted our project manager in San Francisco who is dealing with the improvement of the usability of Wikipedia. I have done this interview for [[de:Wikipedia:Kurier]] and translated it to German, but originally it is in English and so I thought that I can also send it to this list. Kind regards Ziko http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier *Kimura: Wikipedia Usability by Better „Ranking“* *Wikipedia is difficult to edit, many people say, and Wikimedia Foundation encountered the problem by installing Naoki Kimura as a project manager. Her team will make proposals to improve Wikipedia Usability. In an interview with Ziko van Dijk she unravels test results and the next step.* ZvD: Dear Naoki Kimura, previously you told us that you would run some tests about the problems of our new users. NK: Yes, first results confirmed that new Wikipedia users find it very difficult to link to the already existing community, to fit in and to learn the rules. Most difficult this is because the rules change and there is no clear authority. You don't know whom to direct to. ZvD: That is exactly the Wiki principle which made Wikipedia big. NK: But is it suitable to keep Wikipedia running? We lose a lot of people or scare them away even before they join, the statistics show us. Wikipedia can only go on by making the collaboration better. ZvD: So if I am a new user, what will change? NK: In fact, as a new user you already have only limited rights compared to more experienced users. You cannot vote, you cannot sight versions in Wikipedias with flagged revisions, and so on. This must become more systematic. So as a new user you will start as a „rookie user“, and after six months, after trainings and tests, you might become an „advanced user“ and later a „user major“. A bigger step will be to become an „editor adjunct“ etc. In the end, you can become a „senior editor general“. ZvD: I see. And what about non editors? NK: You mean developers and admins? It will be the same or similar. ZvD: And the commander-in-chief of the three service branches will be Jimmy Wales? NK: Yes of course, that will not change at all. ZvD: So the word edit war“ will get a totally new meaning? NK: No, there will be no edit wars at all! There will be no quarrels, no uncertainties, no cybermobbing. We will even be able abolish the talk pages. ZvD: Because everyone knows who is senior and has what rights. NK: Exactly. ZvD: But will Wikipedians accept such a system? NK: That is funny, you know. I worried about that until I presented the idea to the staff members in San Francisco. They told me that they are all Star Trek fans and when they were children at play, they called each other captain“ or midshipman“ or commander“. ZvD: Naoki, I wish you all the best for implementation (it will certainly not be easy) and thank you for this interview. NK: Dismissed. --- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
Pedro Sanchez wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: This is a (predominantly) English-language mailing list, so using those traditions used in the English-speaking world seems to make sense to me. Of course, wasting resources on april 1st is very sensical. And who cares about purported reach to the whole world and all that fancy words let's bother them with our idiotic pranks becuase we are majority and thereforewe have the right to do so Very good attitude on the wikimedia foundation list (I don't care if you do so on english wikipedia list) Some people just need to lighten up. Over the years I've seen many issues that waste a lot more resources than this. If you see shit in the toilet a person who flushes uses resources far more efficiently than some jealously constipated individual who opens up an investigation to punish the person who left it there. People who complain about a little innocent fun are akin to those in an office who measure the length of pencils every day to make sure they aren't excessively wasted. Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] NYTimes article: Exploring Fact City
The Cunctator wrote: A lovely article. The only pity is it doesn't note how much of this social theory of wikis owes to Sunir Shah's pioneering work on MeatballWiki. A nostalgically memorable moment for me was sitting at a table full of beer just listening to Sunir Shah and Ward Cunningham sharing their experiences. Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Thank you for your kind words, SJ. I will tell Ms. Kimura when I will see her (only in my imagination, the name is a mixture from a German friend of mine who has a Japanese mother, Marko Naoki Something, and a Japanese friend of mine who has a German mother, Mr. Kimura). Thanks to Naoko Komura who permitted to distribute a fake interview that could erroneously be attributed to her. Kind regards Ziko who is culture-imperialistic, spamming garbage, confusing the newbies, making jokes about real dangers, making jokes about disabled people, and unwitty (see how some Wikipedians react to a April fools day joke...) 2009/4/1 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com Thank you Ziko. I always enjoy the unfiltered news exacerbated by the Kurier... you should broadcast your work more than once a year. And Ms. Kimura is clearly a crack dictator, she should be miked up regularly. SJ On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello, A couple of days ago I have contacted our project manager in San Francisco who is dealing with the improvement of the usability of Wikipedia. I have done this interview for [[de:Wikipedia:Kurier]] and translated it to German, but originally it is in English and so I thought that I can also send it to this list. Kind regards Ziko http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier *Kimura: Wikipedia Usability by Better „Ranking“* *Wikipedia is difficult to edit, many people say, and Wikimedia Foundation encountered the problem by installing Naoki Kimura as a project manager. Her team will make proposals to improve Wikipedia Usability. In an interview with Ziko van Dijk she unravels test results and the next step.* ZvD: Dear Naoki Kimura, previously you told us that you would run some tests about the problems of our new users. NK: Yes, first results confirmed that new Wikipedia users find it very difficult to link to the already existing community, to fit in and to learn the rules. Most difficult this is because the rules change and there is no clear authority. You don't know whom to direct to. ZvD: That is exactly the Wiki principle which made Wikipedia big. NK: But is it suitable to keep Wikipedia running? We lose a lot of people or scare them away even before they join, the statistics show us. Wikipedia can only go on by making the collaboration better. ZvD: So if I am a new user, what will change? NK: In fact, as a new user you already have only limited rights compared to more experienced users. You cannot vote, you cannot sight versions in Wikipedias with flagged revisions, and so on. This must become more systematic. So as a new user you will start as a „rookie user“, and after six months, after trainings and tests, you might become an „advanced user“ and later a „user major“. A bigger step will be to become an „editor adjunct“ etc. In the end, you can become a „senior editor general“. ZvD: I see. And what about non editors? NK: You mean developers and admins? It will be the same or similar. ZvD: And the commander-in-chief of the three service branches will be Jimmy Wales? NK: Yes of course, that will not change at all. ZvD: So the word edit war“ will get a totally new meaning? NK: No, there will be no edit wars at all! There will be no quarrels, no uncertainties, no cybermobbing. We will even be able abolish the talk pages. ZvD: Because everyone knows who is senior and has what rights. NK: Exactly. ZvD: But will Wikipedians accept such a system? NK: That is funny, you know. I worried about that until I presented the idea to the staff members in San Francisco. They told me that they are all Star Trek fans and when they were children at play, they called each other captain“ or midshipman“ or commander“. ZvD: Naoki, I wish you all the best for implementation (it will certainly not be easy) and thank you for this interview. NK: Dismissed. --- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Ziko van Dijk NL-Silvolde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Ziko van Dijk hett schreven: Ziko who is culture-imperialistic, spamming garbage, confusing the newbies, making jokes about real dangers, making jokes about disabled people, and unwitty (see how some Wikipedians react to a April fools day joke...) Harsh critic, isn't it? There are two interpretations possible now: a) All those critics are dicks. b) You did something that is indeed critizable. Marcus Buck User:Slomox ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
The best solution to this problem is clearly a clean wipe of the Wikipedia namespace! On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.comwrote: NK: Yes, first results confirmed that new Wikipedia users find it very difficult to link to the already existing community, to fit in and to learn the rules. Most difficult this is because the rules change and there is no clear authority. You don't know whom to direct to. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?
At this point I would suggest that we go ahead and block access to Wikipedia from the UK entirely. Wikipedia isn't compatible with their censorship, libel, copyright, or privacy policies. Ryan Kaldari On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/ Should we say er, no, not our data either or ignore them? (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all commenting saying HELL YES. The question then is whether, by some obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether it's worth it anyway.) - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?
On a serious note, however, I would say HELL YES. Ryan Kaldari On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Ryan Kaldari kald...@gmail.com wrote: At this point I would suggest that we go ahead and block access to Wikipedia from the UK entirely. Wikipedia isn't compatible with their censorship, libel, copyright, or privacy policies. Ryan Kaldari On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/ Should we say er, no, not our data either or ignore them? (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all commenting saying HELL YES. The question then is whether, by some obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether it's worth it anyway.) - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
--- On Wed, 4/1/09, Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org wrote: From: Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 10:16 AM Birgitte SB hett schreven: Right, it obviously the pompous English majority conspiring here because you received a prank from every English speaker on the list. If the list were in Spanish so every immature youth in Latin America with too much time on their hands could access it without scholarship, you would be unable to spare the rest of us on Dec 28. Follow David's example and ignore those who actually choose to waste your time and spare the rest of us your stereotyped rant. Birgitte SB Cultural imperialism is not confined to societies. It can be done by individuals too. And Pedro's critical remarks are aimed at individuals. No need to feel offended as a member of the English majority (except you support imposing your own cultural sillynesses on other people, in that case, feel offended). The main problem with just ignore them is: If you don't know the custom of April's Fool day, you won't know that it's a joke. And even if you know the custom you can still fall for the jokes. I am fully aware, that there will always be idiots, who don't know how to behave in an intercultural environment, but only if we tell them that they are idiots, awareness can arise for the idioticy of this behaviour. If you hadn't snipped it would be clear the rant was not directed at any individuals. The foundation list and it's English majority were all that was given not idiotic pranksters. While one need not feel offended about it, neither does one need to feel annoyed with April Fools pranks. But such an attitude is offensive to me and I don't think it belongs here any more than the annoying pranks do. I am afraid you misunderstood my suggestion as well as misquoted me.. I have no issue with singling out people, and didn't mean to suggest they must be ignored without comment. More like placed on the ignore emails from X function of your Inbox. So that they won't bother him in the future.. I suggested following David's example, which was singling a prankster out and publicly announcing that he was ignoring him. So I never intended to suggest that he just ignore [the pranks]. Birgitte SB ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Levy wrote: Pedro Sanchez wrote: Of course, wasting resources on april 1st is very sensical. And who cares about purported reach to the whole world and all that fancy words let's bother them with our idiotic pranks becuase we are majority and thereforewe have the right to do so Very good attitude on the wikimedia foundation list (I don't care if you do so on english wikipedia list) Needless to say, I wholeheartedly agree with you, Pedro. Every year, I find myself disheartened by this Anglocentric rationale for deliberate disruption. I've even mentioned 28 December when trying to explain to people that April Fools' Day isn't a worldwide custom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Innocents#Feast_days Here here! I'm also a fan of doing this on December 28 (and ignoring the fact that it's my birthday that day). Cary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ08I2yQg4JSymDYkRAtG8AJ9+/zwISvdVXI3LDDQnx80rKST3XgCgyPTk Ue8xhURlLyHGK+tAHeo/4L4= =73O+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
I've just finished coding up Non-Free Content Bot which spiders Google Images and uploads 10 per second to commons with no license information. I wrote the bot using MediaWiki's turing complete template language. Given that Google Images has 916,000,000 images I anticipate it will take 2.90269084 years to finish. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Al Tally majorly.w...@googlemail.comwrote: Hi all I just came across this[1] policy on Commons, which states that from today, non-free content is going to be allowed to be uploaded on Commons. I'm rather shocked that this was pushed through without any notice here, or anywhere, and it has become policy, going against Wikimedia's free content philosophy. Can people please input on the talk page as soon as possible please, so we can get this reversed. Thanks, -- Alex (User:Majorly) [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Non-free_content ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?
HELL PERHAPS. On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Ryan Kaldari kald...@gmail.com wrote: On a serious note, however, I would say HELL YES. Ryan Kaldari On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Ryan Kaldari kald...@gmail.com wrote: At this point I would suggest that we go ahead and block access to Wikipedia from the UK entirely. Wikipedia isn't compatible with their censorship, libel, copyright, or privacy policies. Ryan Kaldari On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/ Should we say er, no, not our data either or ignore them? (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all commenting saying HELL YES. The question then is whether, by some obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether it's worth it anyway.) - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?
2009/4/1 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/ Should we say er, no, not our data either or ignore them? (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all commenting saying HELL YES. The question then is whether, by some obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether it's worth it anyway.) - d. Wikipedia is not a campaigning organisation. We already supply information to people who's net access is monitored by far more worrying groups than phorm. So the privacy issues would not on their own be a justification. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
May I point out that Alex, also known as majorly or Al Tally, is a respected member of the British Wikimedia crowd and not just a one off prankster using a made up e-mail address. Also, this made me laugh and I would have thought that a prank with cultural significance (due to the date), that is reveleaded to be such, is also interesting for intercultural learning instead of the opposite. To single out single members of the community, especially respected contributors on and off site, and calling them idiots I think is far worse. Ian [[User:Poeloq]] On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu wrote: I've just finished coding up Non-Free Content Bot which spiders Google Images and uploads 10 per second to commons with no license information. I wrote the bot using MediaWiki's turing complete template language. Given that Google Images has 916,000,000 images I anticipate it will take 2.90269084 years to finish. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Al Tally majorly.w...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi all I just came across this[1] policy on Commons, which states that from today, non-free content is going to be allowed to be uploaded on Commons. I'm rather shocked that this was pushed through without any notice here, or anywhere, and it has become policy, going against Wikimedia's free content philosophy. Can people please input on the talk page as soon as possible please, so we can get this reversed. Thanks, -- Alex (User:Majorly) [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Non-free_content ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Ian A Holton Basler-Landstrasse 19a - 79111 Freiburg - Germany +49 761 4587907 (Landline) +49 157 77247397 (Mobile) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons
Cary Bass wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Levy wrote: Pedro Sanchez wrote: Of course, wasting resources on april 1st is very sensical. And who cares about purported reach to the whole world and all that fancy words let's bother them with our idiotic pranks becuase we are majority and thereforewe have the right to do so Very good attitude on the wikimedia foundation list (I don't care if you do so on english wikipedia list) Needless to say, I wholeheartedly agree with you, Pedro. Every year, I find myself disheartened by this Anglocentric rationale for deliberate disruption. I've even mentioned 28 December when trying to explain to people that April Fools' Day isn't a worldwide custom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Innocents#Feast_days Here here! I'm also a fan of doing this on December 28 (and ignoring the fact that it's my birthday that day). Cary Me too; adding that I would be all for the jewish contributors of our site to create a [[Wikipedia:Purim policy page]] next year 27th to 28th of March. (See [[Purim torah]]) Yours, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?
Yes, but how many of them let you opt out? If we could opt out of the Great Firewall of China, I imagine we would :) Ryan Kaldari On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 3:58 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/1 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/ Should we say er, no, not our data either or ignore them? (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all commenting saying HELL YES. The question then is whether, by some obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether it's worth it anyway.) - d. Wikipedia is not a campaigning organisation. We already supply information to people who's net access is monitored by far more worrying groups than phorm. So the privacy issues would not on their own be a justification. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?
2009/4/1 Ryan Kaldari kald...@gmail.com: Yes, but how many of them let you opt out? If we could opt out of the Great Firewall of China, I imagine we would :) Most of these national firewalls limit the number of ISPs people can access through. Blocking them or forcing to https would not present too great a challenge. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.com wrote: I am sceptical about automatic conversion. As you said, it is mainly a solution for reading, but not for writing, because the source text is in one specific spelling or character system. Why couldn't that be converted on the fly as well? Choose one variant as the canonical one, and store only that in the database. Anyone wanting to use other formats would have the text in the edit box automatically converted to their preferred variant on the fly, and converted back when they saved. You'd have to be very certain you could roundtrip stuff for this to work well, of course. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org wrote: Harsh critic, isn't it? There are two interpretations possible now: a) All those critics are dicks. b) You did something that is indeed critizable. All those critics being you and . . . who else, again? Part of being on an international list is having to deal with other cultural groups' customs, such as April Fools' Day. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Aryeh Gregor hett schreven: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org wrote: Harsh critic, isn't it? There are two interpretations possible now: a) All those critics are dicks. b) You did something that is indeed critizable. All those critics being you and . . . who else, again? Part of being on an international list is having to deal with other cultural groups' customs, such as April Fools' Day. Ziko cross-posted his joke on several lists and on the wiki and got critic on several of them. If you want names: Marcela, Janneman, Phantom, Southpark for example. Look at the list: culture-imperialistic, spamming garbage, confusing the newbies, making jokes about real dangers, making jokes about disabled people, and unwitty. The only thing, that I accused him of (at least I used the word, alhough not explicitly in his direction) was cultural imperialism. Fools' days are actually an ethnographic category. There are several time periods in different cultures at which making fun of others is common. Most of the Western world has April 1 as fools' day, the Spanish-speaking world, as Pedro mentioned, knows December 28, somebody mentioned the Yiddish Purim torah, Denmark knows the Majkat on April 30 and May 1 and there are several other occasions in other cultures. Would you like to be fooled on all of them? Marcus Buck User:Slomox ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Not only that, but I didn't find it funny at all. Absolutely devoid of humor. Distorting truth does not automatically make it humorous. I believed it at first, actually, until I realized what today is. I feel that this was completely pointless and a waste of my time. Mark 2009/4/1 Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org: Aryeh Gregor hett schreven: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org wrote: Harsh critic, isn't it? There are two interpretations possible now: a) All those critics are dicks. b) You did something that is indeed critizable. All those critics being you and . . . who else, again? Part of being on an international list is having to deal with other cultural groups' customs, such as April Fools' Day. Ziko cross-posted his joke on several lists and on the wiki and got critic on several of them. If you want names: Marcela, Janneman, Phantom, Southpark for example. Look at the list: culture-imperialistic, spamming garbage, confusing the newbies, making jokes about real dangers, making jokes about disabled people, and unwitty. The only thing, that I accused him of (at least I used the word, alhough not explicitly in his direction) was cultural imperialism. Fools' days are actually an ethnographic category. There are several time periods in different cultures at which making fun of others is common. Most of the Western world has April 1 as fools' day, the Spanish-speaking world, as Pedro mentioned, knows December 28, somebody mentioned the Yiddish Purim torah, Denmark knows the Majkat on April 30 and May 1 and there are several other occasions in other cultures. Would you like to be fooled on all of them? Marcus Buck User:Slomox ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
Folks, lighten up. For a community to be a community, vibrant and open, it can't be all serious all the time. So, at the risk of using culturally imperialistic idiom... chill out! Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Interview: Wikipedia usability and test results
LOL - we have a self-proclaimed April Fool who is not so happy about being made a fool of ^_^ On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Mark Williamson node...@gmail.com wrote: Not only that, but I didn't find it funny at all. Absolutely devoid of humor. Distorting truth does not automatically make it humorous. I believed it at first, actually, until I realized what today is. I feel that this was completely pointless and a waste of my time. Mark 2009/4/1 Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org: Aryeh Gregor hett schreven: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org wrote: Harsh critic, isn't it? There are two interpretations possible now: a) All those critics are dicks. b) You did something that is indeed critizable. All those critics being you and . . . who else, again? Part of being on an international list is having to deal with other cultural groups' customs, such as April Fools' Day. Ziko cross-posted his joke on several lists and on the wiki and got critic on several of them. If you want names: Marcela, Janneman, Phantom, Southpark for example. Look at the list: culture-imperialistic, spamming garbage, confusing the newbies, making jokes about real dangers, making jokes about disabled people, and unwitty. The only thing, that I accused him of (at least I used the word, alhough not explicitly in his direction) was cultural imperialism. Fools' days are actually an ethnographic category. There are several time periods in different cultures at which making fun of others is common. Most of the Western world has April 1 as fools' day, the Spanish-speaking world, as Pedro mentioned, knows December 28, somebody mentioned the Yiddish Purim torah, Denmark knows the Majkat on April 30 and May 1 and there are several other occasions in other cultures. Would you like to be fooled on all of them? Marcus Buck User:Slomox ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
