Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 17

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
This seems to be an invitation because by inference we may learn the
attributes of the right American... Somehow I do not think so.. Can someone
please unsubscribe this gentlemen that does not know or care how to help
himself ?
Thanks,
   Gerard

2009/4/10 Ronald Studebaker 

> April 10, 2009  URGENT MESSAGE
> Cambodia Time Zone
>
> Dear Sirs:
> This is my LAST AND FINAL REQUEST TO YOU, " REMOVE MY EMAIL NAME FROM your
> fucking mailing list !!"
>
> You are pissing  off the wrong American !!
>  Sgned Ron Studebaker
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: "foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org" <
> foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org>
> To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:29:13 AM
> Subject: foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 17
>
> Send foundation-l mailing list submissions to
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> foundation-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of foundation-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on realname for
>   Internet (RYU Cheol)
>   2. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on realname for
>   Internet (Techman224)
>   3. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on realname for
>   Internet (RYU Cheol)
>   4. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on realname for
>   Internet (Mark Williamson)
>   5. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on realname for
>   Internet (RYU Cheol)
>   6. Re: foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14 (Ronald Studebaker)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:37:49 +0900
> From: RYU Cheol 
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
> realname for Internet
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by no business in South Korea.
> The foundation is in Florida, so you don't need to abide by the law of
> United Kingdom?
>
> But I'm an contributing editor of Wikipedia residing in South Korea
> and some of ko.wp editors  are preparing to establish South Korea
> chapter to promote Free Culture Movement. South Korean editors have to
> abide by the regulations of Korean government.
>
> I want to know if we have visitors more than 100,000 from South Korea or
> not?
>
> -Cheol
>
> 2009/4/9 Nathan :
> > Assuming it isn't an April Fool's joke, the fact remains that the
> Wikimedia
> > Foundation is not bound to abide by the laws of South Korea. Google had
> > business there, presumably, while the Foundation does not.
> >
> > Nathan
> > ___
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 19:45:23 -0500
> From: Techman224 
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
> realname for Internet
> To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <7b3ff821-ad47-4f83-9ae7-fef2d7dd3...@yahoo.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> If this law includes websites hosted outside of South Korea, and
> there's enough people coming from there, we either have to do it, or
> risk being blocked.
>
> Techman224
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:54:24 +0900
> From: RYU Cheol 
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
> realname for Internet
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> We have some servers in Seoul, Korea, which are donated by Yahoo,
> right? (I'm not sure, let me know) Then it's a web site in South
> Korea.
>
> --Cheol
>
> 2009/4/10 Techman224 :
> > If this law includes websites hosted outside of South Korea, and
> > there's enough people coming from there, we either have to do it, or
> > risk being blocked.
> >
> > Techman224
> >
> > ___
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 18:56:09 -0700
> From: Mark Williamson 
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
> rea

Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Pedro Sanchez]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 21:27, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> >
> > The question was about a list which should exist somewhere (at Meta).
> >
>
> Thank you, but not obligatory a list. I meant any form, even a number
> of rules written on this mailing list. Otherwise we (may) have a
> situation when, for instance, a user puts some inflammatory or
> divisive content on their user page and administrators are unable to
> delete it, until a policy which regulates this is adopted locally.



Even english wikipedia was close to allow divisive and inflammatory content
on an user page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Visitante

Becuase, ¡hey everyone is allowed to write about wikipedia on his userpage
even if it's attacking other project
even if account makes no other edits in years
policy allows it
and it's not about english wikipedia sysops

thankfully there are still admins with common sense. But the point is
even in Wikipedias with a "complete" set of rules
it's not enough to counteract trolls
precisely because so many rules create so many loopholes for wikilawyers and
rule worshippers
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Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on real name for Internet

[Kalan]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:24, RYU Cheol  wrote:
> I suggest we make a voice against South Korean government,  'cause I
> don't want to say good bye to you all.

If a similar law would be adopted in one of the Western countries,
mass campaigns and protests would be inevitable. Perhaps we should
expect something like this from Koreans as well?

— Kalan

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Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 17

[Ronald Studebaker]

April 10, 2009  URGENT MESSAGE
Cambodia Time Zone 

Dear Sirs:
This is my LAST AND FINAL REQUEST TO YOU, " REMOVE MY EMAIL NAME FROM your 
fucking mailing list !!"

You are pissing  off the wrong American !!
 Sgned Ron Studebaker 
 





From: "foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org" 

To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:29:13 AM
Subject: foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 17

Send foundation-l mailing list submissions to
    foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    foundation-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of foundation-l digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (RYU Cheol)
  2. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (Techman224)
  3. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (RYU Cheol)
  4. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (Mark Williamson)
  5. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (RYU Cheol)
  6. Re: foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14 (Ronald Studebaker)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:37:49 +0900
From: RYU Cheol 
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
    real    name for Internet
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
    
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I'm not sure what you mean by no business in South Korea.
The foundation is in Florida, so you don't need to abide by the law of
United Kingdom?

But I'm an contributing editor of Wikipedia residing in South Korea
and some of ko.wp editors  are preparing to establish South Korea
chapter to promote Free Culture Movement. South Korean editors have to
abide by the regulations of Korean government.

I want to know if we have visitors more than 100,000 from South Korea or not?

-Cheol

2009/4/9 Nathan :
> Assuming it isn't an April Fool's joke, the fact remains that the Wikimedia
> Foundation is not bound to abide by the laws of South Korea. Google had
> business there, presumably, while the Foundation does not.
>
> Nathan
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 19:45:23 -0500
From: Techman224 
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
    real    name for Internet
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID: <7b3ff821-ad47-4f83-9ae7-fef2d7dd3...@yahoo.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

If this law includes websites hosted outside of South Korea, and  
there's enough people coming from there, we either have to do it, or  
risk being blocked.

Techman224



--

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:54:24 +0900
From: RYU Cheol 
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
    real    name for Internet
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
    
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

We have some servers in Seoul, Korea, which are donated by Yahoo,
right? (I'm not sure, let me know) Then it's a web site in South
Korea.

--Cheol

2009/4/10 Techman224 :
> If this law includes websites hosted outside of South Korea, and
> there's enough people coming from there, we either have to do it, or
> risk being blocked.
>
> Techman224
>
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 18:56:09 -0700
From: Mark Williamson 
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on
    real    name for Internet
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
    
Message-ID:
    <849f98ed0904091856i22178366mcaa448549bca6...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

No, in most cases we don't have to abide by the law tof the United Kingdom.

There are hundreds of countries in the world, each with their own
different laws, some seemingly quite draconian when it comes to what
content is allowed. Imagine, in North Korea the things we say about
Kim Jong-il are probably illegal, but we don't have to follow their
law because our website is based in... Florida.

Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Mark Williamson]

The old Belarusan WP is still around; the overwhelming reason for the
closure of ru-sib was language issues.



2009/4/9 David Gerard :
> 2009/4/9 Milos Rancic :
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:01 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>>> 2009/4/9 Milos Rancic :
 On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:
>
> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?
>
 No.
>
>>> NPOV. Wikipedias which refuse it have been shut down.
>
>> The question was about a list which should exist somewhere (at Meta).
>
>
> Yes, we could do with one.
>
>
>> BTW, probably I missed that some Wikipedia was shut down because of
>> violating NPOV. Which Wikipedias were shut down because of NPOV
>> violation?
>
>
> I understand it was a factor in the shutdown of the old-Belarusian and
> Siberian wikipedias. Not the only thing, but a factor. I could be
> wrong here on its importance, of course.
>
>
> - d.
>
> ___
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> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14

[Ronald Studebaker]

March 10, 2009  *EMERGENCY MESSAGE*
9:30 AM

Dear Foundation Program:
As of this date, March 10, 2009 PLEASE DO NOT send to my email address any more 
of your messages.

Sincerely
Ron Studebaker 

 




From: "foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org" 

To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 7:00:06 PM
Subject: foundation-l Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14

Send foundation-l mailing list submissions to
    foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    foundation-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of foundation-l digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Re: mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was
      promised ! (Brion Vibber)
  2. Re: mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was
      promised ! (Marcus Buck)
  3. Wikimania 2009 Scholarships (Mark (Markie))
  4. South Korean Government's regulations on real name    for
      Internet (RYU Cheol)
  5. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (teun spaans)
  6. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (RYU Cheol)
  7. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real name for
      Internet (Michael Snow)
  8. Re: South Korean Government's regulations on real    name for
      Internet (RYU Cheol)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:10:37 -0700
From: Brion Vibber 
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to
    mo-cyrill as it was promised !
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
    
Message-ID: <49dd04bd.8080...@wikimedia.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 4/6/09 3:28 PM, Casey Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Cetateanu Moldovanu
>   wrote:
>> * you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's april
>> now and mo is still not yet renamed.*
>
> None of the wikis have been moved yet, it's not that this situation is
> specific to mowiki.

No idea why this was sent to foundation-l since I already answered 
directly...

Wikis have not been renamed yet since we have no infrastructure for 
doing it. The requests are in the system and will be reached when we 
have an opportunity to set up a renaming infrastructure -- none of the 
renames are high priority, and there are plenty of things most members 
of this list would rather see us do first. :)

-- brion



--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:13:52 +0200
From: Marcus Buck 
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to
    mo-cyrill as it was promised !
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
    
Message-ID: <49dd1390.4030...@marcusbuck.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Brion Vibber hett schreven:
> and there are plenty of things most members 
> of this list would rather see us do first. :)
>  
Great to hear you are working on world peace...
As the developments on 'things most members of this list would like to 
see' are rather slow, I'd say, you should urgently hire some more 
people, who help you do the tasks that need to be done, or alternatively 
make access to administrative tools easier, so that voluntary helpers 
can help you do the tasks that need to be done.

Marcus Buck
User:Slomox





--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:53:53 +0100
From: "Mark (Markie)" 
Subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2009 Scholarships
To: wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org, foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
    wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org, mediawik...@lists.wikimedia.org,
    wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Wikimania 2009 [1], this year's global event devoted to Wikimedia [2]
projects around the globe, is now accepting *applications for
scholarships*to the conference. This year's conference will be handled
from August 26-28
in Buenos Aires [3], Argentina [4]. The scholarship can be used to help
offset the costs of travel and registration. For more information, check the
official information page [5]. Please remember that the Call for
Participation [6] is still open, please submit your papers! Without
submissions, Wikimania would not be nearly as fun!

[1] http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Portal
[2] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buenos_Aires
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina
[5] http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships
[6] http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_Participation

Regards

Mark


--

Message: 4
D

Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on real name for Internet

[RYU Cheol]

Of course, we can decide to follow or not, and I hope we decide not to.

I want you to be informed that we have the risk to be blocked from
South Korea and we could loose editors from South Korea.

I suggest we make a voice against South Korean government,  'cause I
don't want to say good bye to you all.

--Cheol

2009/4/10 Mark Williamson :
> No, in most cases we don't have to abide by the law tof the United Kingdom.
>
> There are hundreds of countries in the world, each with their own
> different laws, some seemingly quite draconian when it comes to what
> content is allowed. Imagine, in North Korea the things we say about
> Kim Jong-il are probably illegal, but we don't have to follow their
> law because our website is based in... Florida.
>
> Mark
>
> 2009/4/9 RYU Cheol :
>> I'm not sure what you mean by no business in South Korea.
>> The foundation is in Florida, so you don't need to abide by the law of
>> United Kingdom?
>>
>> But I'm an contributing editor of Wikipedia residing in South Korea
>> and some of ko.wp editors  are preparing to establish South Korea
>> chapter to promote Free Culture Movement. South Korean editors have to
>> abide by the regulations of Korean government.
>>
>>  I want to know if we have visitors more than 100,000 from South Korea or 
>> not?
>>
>> -Cheol
>>
>> 2009/4/9 Nathan :
>>> Assuming it isn't an April Fool's joke, the fact remains that the Wikimedia
>>> Foundation is not bound to abide by the laws of South Korea. Google had
>>> business there, presumably, while the Foundation does not.
>>>
>>> Nathan
>>> ___
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
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Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on real name for Internet

[Mark Williamson]

No, in most cases we don't have to abide by the law tof the United Kingdom.

There are hundreds of countries in the world, each with their own
different laws, some seemingly quite draconian when it comes to what
content is allowed. Imagine, in North Korea the things we say about
Kim Jong-il are probably illegal, but we don't have to follow their
law because our website is based in... Florida.

Mark

2009/4/9 RYU Cheol :
> I'm not sure what you mean by no business in South Korea.
> The foundation is in Florida, so you don't need to abide by the law of
> United Kingdom?
>
> But I'm an contributing editor of Wikipedia residing in South Korea
> and some of ko.wp editors  are preparing to establish South Korea
> chapter to promote Free Culture Movement. South Korean editors have to
> abide by the regulations of Korean government.
>
>  I want to know if we have visitors more than 100,000 from South Korea or not?
>
> -Cheol
>
> 2009/4/9 Nathan :
>> Assuming it isn't an April Fool's joke, the fact remains that the Wikimedia
>> Foundation is not bound to abide by the laws of South Korea. Google had
>> business there, presumably, while the Foundation does not.
>>
>> Nathan
>> ___
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on real name for Internet

[RYU Cheol]

We have some servers in Seoul, Korea, which are donated by Yahoo,
right? (I'm not sure, let me know) Then it's a web site in South
Korea.

--Cheol

2009/4/10 Techman224 :
> If this law includes websites hosted outside of South Korea, and
> there's enough people coming from there, we either have to do it, or
> risk being blocked.
>
> Techman224
>
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on real name for Internet

[Techman224]

If this law includes websites hosted outside of South Korea, and  
there's enough people coming from there, we either have to do it, or  
risk being blocked.

Techman224

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Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on real name for Internet

[RYU Cheol]

I'm not sure what you mean by no business in South Korea.
The foundation is in Florida, so you don't need to abide by the law of
United Kingdom?

But I'm an contributing editor of Wikipedia residing in South Korea
and some of ko.wp editors  are preparing to establish South Korea
chapter to promote Free Culture Movement. South Korean editors have to
abide by the regulations of Korean government.

 I want to know if we have visitors more than 100,000 from South Korea or not?

-Cheol

2009/4/9 Nathan :
> Assuming it isn't an April Fool's joke, the fact remains that the Wikimedia
> Foundation is not bound to abide by the laws of South Korea. Google had
> business there, presumably, while the Foundation does not.
>
> Nathan
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Nemo_bis]

Jaska Zedlik, 09/04/2009 19:49:
> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?

Yes: e.g. http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Licensing_policy
(surprisingly not yet mentioned).
But some wikis have non-free content and no Exemption Doctrine Policy, 
and don't want to respect this WMF resolution.

Nemo

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Geoffrey Plourde]

I think that the general principles are a perfectly acceptable "policy" and 
creating a compulsory policy is a bad idea. Each project needs the independence 
provided by the general principles. Due to the vast diversity of the Wikimedia 
family, we cannot make hard and fast rules and expect each prject to use them. 
Flexibility is a virtue.



From: Fred Bauder 
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List 
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 11:00:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

I think the assumption is that any Wikipedia will adopt the general
policies found on the English Wikipedia, but tailor them for local
conditions. A project which wishes to significantly deviate from the
general principles of everyone can edit, neutral point of view, and using
reliable sources should probably be independent.

Perhaps it is time a definite policy is drafted and published.

Fred Bauder

> Hi!
>
> It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
> some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
> question is what are these policies?
>
> Each small Wikipedia doesn’t have all variety of policies and
> guidelines which major Wikipedias have, and—it’s obvious—some time
> or
> other they will need such a list of all-projects rules. What I found
> for now is
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:How_to_start_a_new_Wikipedia
> with the rules of copyright, license, NPOV and “What Wikipedia is
> not”, but this page “is obsolete or no longer maintained” (and
> there
> is even no rule of “Five pillars”). There is also page
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Founding_principles exists, but it
> seems to be relevant for all Wikimedia projects, not only Wikipedias
> (“Five pillars”, “What Wikipedia is not” are missed). There are
> some
> other pages exist, but they all are not relevant here as well.
>
> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?
>
> And one more question. What is the general practice of who and how can
> decide whether something meets the (all-project) rules or not?
>
> (This message was also posted to Wikimedia Forum on Meta).
>
> Thanks,
> zedlik
>
> ___
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> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Fred Bauder]

>
> Is censorship looked down on by most wikis?
>
> I presume most wikis will refuse to take down contact due to laws in
> that language's main base (eg Chinese Wikipedia)?

Excellent question. I wonder about the Hebrew and the Arabic Wikipedias.
Would, or could, either resist serious pressure by the Israeli government
or the Saudi Arabian government, or God forbid, al Qaida?

Fred



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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Joe Anderson]

On 2009-04-09 18:49:10 +0100, Jaska Zedlik 
 said:

> Hi!
> 
> It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
> some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
> question is what are these policies?
> 
> Each small Wikipedia doesn’t have all variety of policies and
> guidelines which major Wikipedias have, and—it’s obvious—some time or
> other they will need such a list of all-projects rules. What I found
> for now is http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:How_to_start_a_new_Wikipedia
> with the rules of copyright, license, NPOV and “What Wikipedia is
> not”, but this page “is obsolete or no longer maintained” (and there
> is even no rule of “Five pillars”). There is also page
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Founding_principles exists, but it
> seems to be relevant for all Wikimedia projects, not only Wikipedias
> (“Five pillars”, “What Wikipedia is not” are missed). There are some
> other pages exist, but they all are not relevant here as well.
> 
> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?
> 
> And one more question. What is the general practice of who and how can
> decide whether something meets the (all-project) rules or not?
> 
> (This message was also posted to Wikimedia Forum on Meta).
> 
> Thanks,
> zedlik
> 
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Is censorship looked down on by most wikis?

I presume most wikis will refuse to take down contact due to laws in 
that language's main base (eg Chinese Wikipedia)?



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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Fred Bauder]

> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:01 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>> 2009/4/9 Milos Rancic :
>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:
>>
 So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are
 there
 global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?
>>
>>> No.
>>
>> NPOV. Wikipedias which refuse it have been shut down.
>
> The question was about a list which should exist somewhere (at Meta).
>
> BTW, probably I missed that some Wikipedia was shut down because of
> violating NPOV. Which Wikipedias were shut down because of NPOV
> violation?
>
> As well as I know for many community supported NPOV violations through
> various Wikipedias. As I don't want to point to the projects, here is
> the list of possible excuses for NPOV violation:
>
> * Something is ugly.
> * Something is not according to some moral norms.
> * Too many references (~20 references for two pages text; page deleted).
> * Various ethnicist and nationalist reasons with well or not so well
> rationalizations.
>
> Note that I am not talking about some edit war, but about a dominant
> opinion of not so small number of communities. And those are just
> dominant and generic excuses. A lot of others are well rationalized
> excuses used by many communities and defined (or not) inside of the
> policies. Sometimes the policy is a problem, but in much more cases
> systematic policy interpretation is a problem.

There will always be a residual area of failure to live up to ideals. The
English Wikipedia has all of the problems you list, although perhaps in
subtler forms. Those shortcomings are the source of continual discussion
and, occasionally, serious conflict. It is up to those who edit in each
language to work on resolution of these perennial problems. Only gross
failure, or deliberate forking, would result in repudiation of a
Wikipedia.

Fred Bauder



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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Andre Engels]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:

> Thank you, but not obligatory a list. I meant any form, even a number
> of rules written on this mailing list. Otherwise we (may) have a
> situation when, for instance, a user puts some inflammatory or
> divisive content on their user page and administrators are unable to
> delete it, until a policy which regulates this is adopted locally.
> NPOV and Wikimedia Founding principles regulate only "articles and
> other encyclopedic content" and can't be applied in this case.

I don't think this is something that can be decided for all Wikipedias
on beforehand. To me, this would fall under one rule that might be
said to apply generally: ignore all rules. More specifically, if there
is a situation that has a negative effect on a Wikipedia, and there
are no local rules regarding the situation, anyone has the right to
take the action that they seem best.

If we're talking about general rules, there are two that I can think
of. The first is NPOV, which has already been mentioned, the second is
GFDL. Or rather, free licensing. All Wikipedia material should be free
as in speech. And reading through the foundation principles, I see a
third: freedom to edit. Everyone should be free to edit (unless they
have actually misused this right).


-- 
André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Fred Bauder]

> Jaska Zedlik writes:
>> Hi!
>>
>> It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
>> some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
>> question is what are these policies?
>>
> I believe all projects should follow
> .
> --vvv

That is a good start. Perhaps that is the page we should edit to make a
policy. Civility is implicit in "The "wiki process" and discussion with
other editors as the final decision-making mechanism for all content."

Fred Bauder



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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Fred Bauder]

> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 21:27, Milos Rancic  wrote:
>>
>> The question was about a list which should exist somewhere (at Meta).
>>
>
> Thank you, but not obligatory a list. I meant any form, even a number
> of rules written on this mailing list. Otherwise we (may) have a
> situation when, for instance, a user puts some inflammatory or
> divisive content on their user page and administrators are unable to
> delete it, until a policy which regulates this is adopted locally.
> NPOV and Wikimedia Founding principles regulate only "articles and
> other encyclopedic content" and can't be applied in this case.
>
> Or even further, community could adopt a policy when divisive content
> is allowed on user pages. NPOV is not violated, Founding principles
> are not violated as well. So everything depends only on a local
> community. I don't think this is a common thing, but maybe it worth
> thinking about this now rather when we face this problem.
>
> zedlik

Yes, some policy similar to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility is expected. I probably
should have included it on my short list. However, I have faith that any
Wikipedia will, through experience, learn that such a policy is required
and adapt it. I think that is healthy, to develop policies as you learn
from experience. They mean more. For example, when the aggrieved subjects
of articles start leaning on you, you will adopt something similar to
Biographies of living persons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons

Fred Bauder


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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[David Gerard]

2009/4/9 Milos Rancic :
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:01 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>> 2009/4/9 Milos Rancic :
>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:

 So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
 global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?

>>> No.

>> NPOV. Wikipedias which refuse it have been shut down.

> The question was about a list which should exist somewhere (at Meta).


Yes, we could do with one.


> BTW, probably I missed that some Wikipedia was shut down because of
> violating NPOV. Which Wikipedias were shut down because of NPOV
> violation?


I understand it was a factor in the shutdown of the old-Belarusian and
Siberian wikipedias. Not the only thing, but a factor. I could be
wrong here on its importance, of course.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Birgitte SB]

--- On Thu, 4/9/09, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:

> From: Jaska Zedlik 
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" 
> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 2:25 PM
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 21:27, Milos
> Rancic 
> wrote:
> >
> > The question was about a list which should exist
> somewhere (at Meta).
> >
> 
> Thank you, but not obligatory a list. I meant any form,
> even a number
> of rules written on this mailing list. Otherwise we (may)
> have a
> situation when, for instance, a user puts some inflammatory
> or
> divisive content on their user page and administrators are
> unable to
> delete it, until a policy which regulates this is adopted
> locally.
> NPOV and Wikimedia Founding principles regulate only
> "articles and
> other encyclopedic content" and can't be applied in this
> case.
> 
> Or even further, community could adopt a policy when
> divisive content
> is allowed on user pages. NPOV is not violated, Founding
> principles
> are not violated as well. So everything depends only on a
> local
> community. I don't think this is a common thing, but maybe
> it worth
> thinking about this now rather when we face this problem.
> 


Those are not situations which would be covered by any Compulsory policy across 
projects.  Community governance does depend only on the local community.  That 
is a feature not a bug.


Birgitte SB


  


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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Jaska Zedlik]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 21:27, Milos Rancic  wrote:
>
> The question was about a list which should exist somewhere (at Meta).
>

Thank you, but not obligatory a list. I meant any form, even a number
of rules written on this mailing list. Otherwise we (may) have a
situation when, for instance, a user puts some inflammatory or
divisive content on their user page and administrators are unable to
delete it, until a policy which regulates this is adopted locally.
NPOV and Wikimedia Founding principles regulate only "articles and
other encyclopedic content" and can't be applied in this case.

Or even further, community could adopt a policy when divisive content
is allowed on user pages. NPOV is not violated, Founding principles
are not violated as well. So everything depends only on a local
community. I don't think this is a common thing, but maybe it worth
thinking about this now rather when we face this problem.

zedlik

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Jaska,

Not as "compulsory", but as helping I once started
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ziko/Basic_Wikipedia_and_help_pages
My idea was and is that it is difficult for small Wikipedias to translate or
adapt all of the pages of en.WP, that there should be a short list of short
pages necessary to start with.
Kind regards
Ziko


2009/4/9 Jaska Zedlik 

> Hi!
>
> It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
> some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
> question is what are these policies?
>
> Each small Wikipedia doesn’t have all variety of policies and
> guidelines which major Wikipedias have, and—it’s obvious—some time or
> other they will need such a list of all-projects rules. What I found
> for now is
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:How_to_start_a_new_Wikipedia
> with the rules of copyright, license, NPOV and “What Wikipedia is
> not”, but this page “is obsolete or no longer maintained” (and there
> is even no rule of “Five pillars”). There is also page
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Founding_principles exists, but it
> seems to be relevant for all Wikimedia projects, not only Wikipedias
> (“Five pillars”, “What Wikipedia is not” are missed). There are some
> other pages exist, but they all are not relevant here as well.
>
> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?
>
> And one more question. What is the general practice of who and how can
> decide whether something meets the (all-project) rules or not?
>
> (This message was also posted to Wikimedia Forum on Meta).
>
> Thanks,
> zedlik
>
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>



-- 
Ziko van Dijk
NL-Silvolde
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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Milos Rancic]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:01 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
> 2009/4/9 Milos Rancic :
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:
>
>>> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
>>> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?
>
>> No.
>
> NPOV. Wikipedias which refuse it have been shut down.

The question was about a list which should exist somewhere (at Meta).

BTW, probably I missed that some Wikipedia was shut down because of
violating NPOV. Which Wikipedias were shut down because of NPOV
violation?

As well as I know for many community supported NPOV violations through
various Wikipedias. As I don't want to point to the projects, here is
the list of possible excuses for NPOV violation:

* Something is ugly.
* Something is not according to some moral norms.
* Too many references (~20 references for two pages text; page deleted).
* Various ethnicist and nationalist reasons with well or not so well
rationalizations.

Note that I am not talking about some edit war, but about a dominant
opinion of not so small number of communities. And those are just
dominant and generic excuses. A lot of others are well rationalized
excuses used by many communities and defined (or not) inside of the
policies. Sometimes the policy is a problem, but in much more cases
systematic policy interpretation is a problem.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Victor Vasiliev]

Jaska Zedlik writes:
> Hi!
>
> It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
> some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
> question is what are these policies?
>   
I believe all projects should follow 
.
--vvv

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[David Gerard]

2009/4/9 Milos Rancic :
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:

>> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
>> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?

> No.


NPOV. Wikipedias which refuse it have been shut down.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Fred Bauder]

I think the assumption is that any Wikipedia will adopt the general
policies found on the English Wikipedia, but tailor them for local
conditions. A project which wishes to significantly deviate from the
general principles of everyone can edit, neutral point of view, and using
reliable sources should probably be independent.

Perhaps it is time a definite policy is drafted and published.

Fred Bauder

> Hi!
>
> It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
> some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
> question is what are these policies?
>
> Each small Wikipedia doesn’t have all variety of policies and
> guidelines which major Wikipedias have, and—it’s obvious—some time
> or
> other they will need such a list of all-projects rules. What I found
> for now is
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:How_to_start_a_new_Wikipedia
> with the rules of copyright, license, NPOV and “What Wikipedia is
> not”, but this page “is obsolete or no longer maintained” (and
> there
> is even no rule of “Five pillars”). There is also page
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Founding_principles exists, but it
> seems to be relevant for all Wikimedia projects, not only Wikipedias
> (“Five pillars”, “What Wikipedia is not” are missed). There are
> some
> other pages exist, but they all are not relevant here as well.
>
> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?
>
> And one more question. What is the general practice of who and how can
> decide whether something meets the (all-project) rules or not?
>
> (This message was also posted to Wikimedia Forum on Meta).
>
> Thanks,
> zedlik
>
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Milos Rancic]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Jaska Zedlik  wrote:
> It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
> some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
> question is what are these policies?

Welcome to the club :)

> So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
> global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?

No.

> And one more question. What is the general practice of who and how can
> decide whether something meets the (all-project) rules or not?

There is no such thing. There are particular practices, but, AFAIK,
there is no one place where those practices are gathered.

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[Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

[Jaska Zedlik]

Hi!

It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
question is what are these policies?

Each small Wikipedia doesn’t have all variety of policies and
guidelines which major Wikipedias have, and—it’s obvious—some time or
other they will need such a list of all-projects rules. What I found
for now is http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:How_to_start_a_new_Wikipedia
with the rules of copyright, license, NPOV and “What Wikipedia is
not”, but this page “is obsolete or no longer maintained” (and there
is even no rule of “Five pillars”). There is also page
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Founding_principles exists, but it
seems to be relevant for all Wikimedia projects, not only Wikipedias
(“Five pillars”, “What Wikipedia is not” are missed). There are some
other pages exist, but they all are not relevant here as well.

So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there
global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow?

And one more question. What is the general practice of who and how can
decide whether something meets the (all-project) rules or not?

(This message was also posted to Wikimedia Forum on Meta).

Thanks,
zedlik

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Re: [Foundation-l] WikiSym 2009 in Orlando: Call for Papers - posters deadline April 24

[Brion Vibber]

On 3/8/09 9:46 PM, phoebe ayers wrote:
> A reminder that WikiSym 2009 will be in Orlando, Florida, from October
> 25-27. The deadline for submitting papers, workshops and panel
> proposals is March 27; April 24th is the deadline for posters,
> demonstrations and WikiFest (practical experience) proposals.
[snip]
> For more information, see the Call for Papers:
> http://www.wikisym.org/ws2009/tiki-index.php?page=Call+for+Papers

Just a reminder to all that the CfP is still open for posters, 
demonstrations, and WikiFest proposals -- the final deadline for these 
is April 24.

-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)

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Re: [Foundation-l] South Korean Government's regulations on real name for Internet

[Nathan]

Assuming it isn't an April Fool's joke, the fact remains that the Wikimedia
Foundation is not bound to abide by the laws of South Korea. Google had
business there, presumably, while the Foundation does not.

Nathan
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