Re: [Foundation-l] new survey of digital collection copyrights
However, this study presents evidence that, far from educating users about copyright or promoting the public domain, many libraries engaged in digitization projects are omitting a key tool for copyright education or using it in ways that undermine users’ needs for accurate copyright information. This is very piquant to read here on the foundation list, when you think that not long ago, Wikimedia signed a deal with the German Bundesarchiv which included no obligation from the Bundesarchiv to provide copyright information. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
I started a thread on Wikien-l last month suggesting we start a dispute resolution mailing list: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2009-June/101428.html Responses were largely positive, and what little criticism the idea got (much of it from Thomas Dalton) was fairly easy to deal with. I filed bug report requesting the list's creation on June 27, which was assigned to C.Bass https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19414 . I also emailed C.Bass directly. I'm curious as to the status of this. Its been a month. I've gotten no response from C.Bass, and the bug report has been thus far untouched or ignored. I realize of course that people are very very busy, and that private emails, bug reports, and wikien-l discussions are not the appropriate avenues for discussing a new open email list. That's why I'm mentioning it here. -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
2009/7/23 stevertigo stv...@gmail.com: I started a thread on Wikien-l last month suggesting we start a dispute resolution mailing list: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2009-June/101428.html Responses were largely positive, and what little criticism the idea got (much of it from Thomas Dalton) was fairly easy to deal with. I filed bug report requesting the list's creation on June 27, which was assigned to C.Bass https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19414 . I also emailed C.Bass directly. Responses were rather mixed - there were different proposals being bounced around. As I recall, a list to discuss general dispute resolution matters and perhaps to draw attention to specific disputes has some support, but I don't recall much support for a list where disputes would actually be resolved (which I think was your original proposal). I don't think the list can be created until it is agreed what it will actually be for. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
Cary Bass Volunteer Coordinator Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601 Fax: 415.882.0495 E-Mail: c...@wikimedia.org -Original Message- From: foundation-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of stevertigo Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:13 AM To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Subject: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list I started a thread on Wikien-l last month suggesting we start a dispute resolution mailing list: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2009-June/101428.html Responses were largely positive, and what little criticism the idea got (much of it from Thomas Dalton) was fairly easy to deal with. I filed bug report requesting the list's creation on June 27, which was assigned to C.Bass https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19414 . I also emailed C.Bass directly. I'm curious as to the status of this. Its been a month. I've gotten no response from C.Bass, and the bug report has been thus far untouched or ignored. I realize of course that people are very very busy, and that private emails, bug reports, and wikien-l discussions are not the appropriate avenues for discussing a new open email list. That's why I'm mentioning it here. -Steven Mailing lists don't get opened by mailing list discussions, and the largely positive responses you received were neither numerous nor meritorious of creating yet another list whose function has been duplicated in other locations. I could determine neither consensus based on your email nor a pressing need for this list. I also emailed the English functionaries-l list to see if someone would provide corroboration that the project merited such an email list. The only responses I have received were private ones suggesting it would result in another layer of bureaucracy, and nobody on list. I have rather left the bugzilla open to determine whether or not it would find additional support from any location. Since that point, you have not gained any additional support. If I see nothing more than this by July 27, I will close the bug as WONTDO for the very reasons I've outlined on this email. The appropriate thing for you to have done is to put a note on the bugzilla or advertised it on the wiki and asked people to make comments on the bug before you sent an email such as this to foundation-l. Since you did not, you've certainly placed me in a defensive position; and having to explain to you why your rather request has a lower priority than other things. C.Bass ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: Responses were rather mixed - there were different proposals being bounced around. There weren't any different proposals. Aside from suggestions taht dealt with the scope such a list would take, there was a brief suggestion for a separate announce list - one which simply posted what issues were present. As I recall, a list to discuss general dispute resolution matters and perhaps to draw attention to specific disputes has some support, That is correct. That is essentially the entire concept. But note also that the core of our dispute resolution is best codified with something like DBAD. So to make a habit of chastizing people simply for getting into specific issues on a list itself violates DBAD, and that is why Im reluctant to put hard boundaries on what can or cannot be discussed. If its dispute resolution related, we can discuss it. Obviously much will deal with simply pointing people to the right places on the wiki, helping filing WP:DRR (requests), and keeping things high-level, as you have suggested. but I don't recall much support for a list where disputes would actually be resolved (which I think was your original proposal). That actually wasn't my proposal to resolve disputes there. On the other hand, if a report to ANI or RFC receives attention that solves certain problems, then does that mean you would object to the usage of ANI or RFC to resolve disputes? I guess the point is that the distinctions you illustrate and so-called ambiguity issues you raise are unnecessary and argumentative. I don't think the list can be created until it is agreed what it will actually be for. Sure. That's why I proposed it in the first place. And as far as agreement, goes, I gauge our degree of disagreement at only about five percent. -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
2009/7/23 stevertigo stv...@gmail.com: That actually wasn't my proposal to resolve disputes there. On the other hand, if a report to ANI or RFC receives attention that solves certain problems, then does that mean you would object to the usage of ANI or RFC to resolve disputes? ANI and RFC *are* part of our dispute resolution processes... ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/7/23 stevertigo stv...@gmail.com: That actually wasn't my proposal to resolve disputes there. On the other hand, if a report to ANI or RFC receives attention that solves certain problems, then does that mean you would object to the usage of ANI or RFC to resolve disputes? ANI and RFC *are* part of our dispute resolution processes... ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Not sure what this has to do with foundation-l, can this go back to wikien-l? -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Chadinnocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure what this has to do with foundation-l, can this go back to wikien-l? Thomas' comment was a bit off-topic, but that does not mean this entire thread belongs elsewhere. There are at least four reasons why this discussion belongs here. If you do not understand the issues, please do not make editorial suggestions. -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Cary Bassc...@wikimedia.org wrote: Mailing lists don't get opened by mailing list discussions Hm. I also filed a request on mediazilla, which was automatically assigned to you. and the largely positive responses you received were neither numerous nor meritorious of creating yet another list whose function has been duplicated in other locations. I could determine neither consensus based on your email nor a pressing need for this list. This could have been expressed by you earlier on the wikien-l list, where you do occasionally participate. I disagree with all of it, but I could not say anything about it, because you did not express it in any way. I also emailed the English functionaries-l list to see if someone would provide corroboration that the project merited such an email list. I cannot access functionaries-l. That means that your communications there, in addition to being private, were also unwiki - considering we were discussing it openly on wikien-l and mediazilla. The only responses I have received were private ones suggesting it would result in another layer of bureaucracy, and nobody on list. If you could either forward these emails to me, or else summarize their criticisms here, that would be wonderful. (continued..) -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
Cary Bass wrote: You have not gained any additional support. Open discussion is of course the first step in gaining support. We've been waiting for your participation, as you seem to be the functionary in charge of starting new lists. Now that you are participating in an open discussion, we can sort of resolve any issues people might have with it. If I see nothing more than this by July 27, I will close the bug as WONTDO Well, that gives us three full days. This after you had been non-responsive for almost a month. I understand that you are a functionary, and do things in a functionary way, but I would respectfully ask for more time. A whole week even. The appropriate thing for you to have done is to put a note on the bugzilla I filed the report on mediazilla. No response. What then would I have put a note on the bugzilla about, apart from my filing the request/bug? or advertised it on the wiki and asked people to make comments on the bug before you sent an email such as this to foundation-l. Hm. All I did was start a 100 message thread on wikien-l, and a request on mediazilla. If you could outline more appropriate methods for getting you to do something several of us expressed support for, then please state them. you've certainly placed me in a defensive position; and having to explain to you why your rather request has a lower priority than other things. Well I understand that you are very very busy. Again, if you had responded to the concept either in private, on mediazilla, or on wikien-l, and not just on a private mailing list, things would have gone a bit smoother. As you raised the issue of appropriateness, I don't believe anyone's private summary judgments are appropriate for an open project. Sorry to put you on the spot, Cary. I was simply asking for some open discussion. I do not understand what forces compel you to discuss an open project's matters through only private means, and I don't care, really. I was just asking for an open dispute resolution mailing list. -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
Nothing prevents you from starting your own mailing list if Cary won't. As I am not a member of the wikien cesspool, what purpose are you thinking of? Geoffrey From: stevertigo stv...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:22:27 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list Cary Bass wrote: You have not gained any additional support. Open discussion is of course the first step in gaining support. We've been waiting for your participation, as you seem to be the functionary in charge of starting new lists. Now that you are participating in an open discussion, we can sort of resolve any issues people might have with it. If I see nothing more than this by July 27, I will close the bug as WONTDO Well, that gives us three full days. This after you had been non-responsive for almost a month. I understand that you are a functionary, and do things in a functionary way, but I would respectfully ask for more time. A whole week even. The appropriate thing for you to have done is to put a note on the bugzilla I filed the report on mediazilla. No response. What then would I have put a note on the bugzilla about, apart from my filing the request/bug? or advertised it on the wiki and asked people to make comments on the bug before you sent an email such as this to foundation-l. Hm. All I did was start a 100 message thread on wikien-l, and a request on mediazilla. If you could outline more appropriate methods for getting you to do something several of us expressed support for, then please state them. you've certainly placed me in a defensive position; and having to explain to you why your rather request has a lower priority than other things. Well I understand that you are very very busy. Again, if you had responded to the concept either in private, on mediazilla, or on wikien-l, and not just on a private mailing list, things would have gone a bit smoother. As you raised the issue of appropriateness, I don't believe anyone's private summary judgments are appropriate for an open project. Sorry to put you on the spot, Cary. I was simply asking for some open discussion. I do not understand what forces compel you to discuss an open project's matters through only private means, and I don't care, really. I was just asking for an open dispute resolution mailing list. -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Geoffrey Plourdegeo.p...@yahoo.com wrote: Nothing prevents you from starting your own mailing list if Cary won't. As I am not a member of the wikien cesspool, what purpose are you thinking of? Why don't you go have a peek at the archives instead of bringing what you characterize as a cesspool over here? -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
I'm sorry, this is really not something that needs discussion on foundation-l. This concerns English Wikipedia, and not the wider Wikimedia community or the Foundation itself. Please consider moving this discussion back to the project-specific mailing list or the project itself so to the community for that project can be consulted. Thanks, -Mike ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Report To The Board: March 2009
Sue, thanks so much for compiling and sharing these reports, it is always great to see how much the Foundation is doing as time progresses. I notice that in each report there has been a list of media with which the Foundation has had contact - is that generally interviews requested by the media, or is the Foundation also reaching out to the media? (or some combination of the two) Thanks, -Mike On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 09:57 -0700, Sue Gardner wrote: April will follow shortly; thanks for your patience waiting for these :-) The Wikimedia Foundation participated in interviews with the Star Tribune newspaper (Minneapolis, Minnesota); the New York Daily News; Fox News; Veja Magazine (Sao Paulo, Brazil); the BBC; The National (Abu Dhabi); Philosophy Talk, KALW (San Francisco); the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Report To The Board: March 2009
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Mike.lifeguardmikelifegu...@fastmail.fm wrote: Sue, thanks so much for compiling and sharing these reports, it is always great to see how much the Foundation is doing as time progresses. I notice that in each report there has been a list of media with which the Foundation has had contact - is that generally interviews requested by the media, or is the Foundation also reaching out to the media? (or some combination of the two) Not an answer to this question, but the list of media contacts is also available on foundationwiki: * http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_room/Media_Contact * http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_room/Speaking_2008 (linked from the press room) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Dispute resolution mailing list
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Mike.lifeguardmikelifegu...@fastmail.fm wrote: I'm sorry, this is really not something that needs discussion on foundation-l. This concerns English Wikipedia, and not the wider Wikimedia community or the Foundation itself. Please consider moving this discussion back to the project-specific mailing list or the project itself so to the community for that project can be consulted. Mike, thanks for your comments. Again, there are several reasons why this at least can be, if not should be, discussed here and not just on wikien-l: 1) Mailing lists are foundation projects hosted on the wikimedia.org domain. 2) New lists are set up by a foundation employee who acts in an official functionary capacity. 3) The resolution-l list would not be limited to en.wiki, and an eventual forked for English only usage will, appropriately, be discussed there. 4) The issue was discussed on wikien-l and, for some unknown reason, the responsible party did not bother to participate in dealing with a general matter that is, correctly or not, officially charged to him. 5) This list has higher visibility. Any similar questions, comments, or concerns? -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Britain or Ukraine? What UK stands for in Wikimedia jargon
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:36 AM, Nikola Smolenskismole...@eunet.yu wrote: I suggest a hatnote on the main page of the site: This is the website of Wikimedia United Kingdom. For other uses, see uk.wikimedia.org (disambiguation). I actually coined the word hatnote - probably in violation of our 'no neologisms' policy. By the way, I think I'm currently blocked from the list, so I'm not thinking this will get posted anyway. -Steven ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Report To The Board: March 2009
Hi Mike, Generally, it's people getting in touch with us. We do very little active media outreach -- in fact, we probably do zero. There is also lots of media contact in addition to that list -- for example Jimmy, and many of the chapters, do interviews that don't show up there. But it's a pretty comprehensive list of who Jay's been talking to, and the level of overall media interest in a given month. Thanks, Sue --Original Message-- From: Mike.lifeguard Sender: foundation-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List ReplyTo: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Sent: Jul 23, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report To The Board: March 2009 Sue, thanks so much for compiling and sharing these reports, it is always great to see how much the Foundation is doing as time progresses. I notice that in each report there has been a list of media with which the Foundation has had contact - is that generally interviews requested by the media, or is the Foundation also reaching out to the media? (or some combination of the two) Thanks, -Mike On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 09:57 -0700, Sue Gardner wrote: April will follow shortly; thanks for your patience waiting for these :-) The Wikimedia Foundation participated in interviews with the Star Tribune newspaper (Minneapolis, Minnesota); the New York Daily News; Fox News; Veja Magazine (Sao Paulo, Brazil); the BBC; The National (Abu Dhabi); Philosophy Talk, KALW (San Francisco); the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
