Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs : > So, not having known that 3,000 square feet was the sum total of the > current WMF space on Stillman, my original but unpublished hunch was > correct. Given how spectacularly incorrect your published accusations were that's a pretty pathetic defense. Are you going to apologise? -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs : > "Geni" wrote: > > ++ > Given how spectacularly incorrect your published accusations were > that's a pretty pathetic defense. Are you going to apologise? > > -- > geni > > ++ > > I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it > itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm > confirming "the Wikimedia sublease". Erik Moeller has confirmed that the > Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. > > Which "accusations" do you speak of? "That's curious, considering they had "outgrown" space in January 2009, such that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's accounts receivable to expand their footprint." That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous comments) as anything else. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs : > I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it > itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm > confirming "the Wikimedia sublease". Erik Moeller has confirmed that the > Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. > > Which "accusations" do you speak of? "Now, only eight months later, are we to understand that instead of having “outgrown” its office space on Stillman Street, the WMF is swimming in surplus floor space, that they need to hire Grubb & Ellis to sub-let it out to someone else?" WMF is swimming in surplus floor space? > Why in the heck would I "apologize" for scooping the story that the > Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let office space, if only the > speculative intentions were a little off-base (I did not realize that the > WMF does not intend to stay at Stillman Street a while longer, since the > Foundation failed to communicate any significant "We're Moving Soon!" > announcement to the community). Spectacularly off-base. You threw in a bunch of accusations and innuendo based on a complete misunderstanding of events. The foundation doesn't talk about the particulars of it's office much but descriptions and photos do exist and It wouldn't have taken much work to realize that the amount described was pretty much consistent with the foundation's entire office. > I have issued a clarifying statement in the > blog comments field, and that should be sufficient, unless someone feels > they've been libeled by the Internet Review Corporation. I've received no > such legal complaint. So only in the face of lawsuits will you ever consider apologising? Thats... impressively amoral. > When the Watergate story broke, The people involved were far better at what they did than you are. Investigative journalism is hard and involves more than grabbing a factoid then coating it with acusations and spin which support your world view. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
"Geni" wrote: ++ Given how spectacularly incorrect your published accusations were that's a pretty pathetic defense. Are you going to apologise? -- geni ++ I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm confirming "the Wikimedia sublease". Erik Moeller has confirmed that the Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. Which "accusations" do you speak of? Why in the heck would I "apologize" for scooping the story that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let office space, if only the speculative intentions were a little off-base (I did not realize that the WMF does not intend to stay at Stillman Street a while longer, since the Foundation failed to communicate any significant "We're Moving Soon!" announcement to the community). I have issued a clarifying statement in the blog comments field, and that should be sufficient, unless someone feels they've been libeled by the Internet Review Corporation. I've received no such legal complaint. When the Watergate story broke, it was felt to be a largely "contained" story. Leslie Stahl once commented, *"*CBS sent me. It was a measure of how unimportant CBS thought the story was in the beginning." As more information seeped out, it became clear that it was a story with much wider implications. Consider me a Leslie Stahl, circa 1972. Greg ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Gregory Kohs wrote: > Consider me a Leslie Stahl, circa 1972. We should stop feeding the troll, especially this particular species of novice self-made spy. Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs : > > Which "accusations" do you speak of? > > "That's curious, considering they had "outgrown" space in January 2009, > such > that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's > accounts receivable to expand their footprint." > > That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It > doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable > person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous > comments) as anything else. Perhaps, but that part hasn't been disproven. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:50 AM, geni wrote: > > WMF is swimming in surplus floor space? > Well, yeah, that's been confirmed actually. They have 11000 sq ft, plus 3000 sq ft, plus whatever they have at Wikia, and they only need the 11000 sq ft. Maybe they haven't moved in on the 11000 sq ft yet, but surely there's a deal signed already? Or is that too speculative? Personally, I think the tone of the piece was overly accusatory. It suggested that the WMF was compounding on its Wikia self-dealings, when in actuality, according to Brion, it is correcting them. Anyway, I see Greg has added an "author's note" to the piece, and an apology. I'm glad to see that. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Be nice
please! ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Gregory Kohs wrote: > When the Watergate story broke, it was felt to be a largely "contained" > story. Leslie Stahl once commented, *"*CBS sent me. It was a measure of how > unimportant CBS thought the story was in the beginning." As more > information seeped out, it became clear that it was a story with much wider > implications. Consider me a Leslie Stahl, circa 1972. Hi Greg, I'm sorry to tramp on your Pulitzer aspirations, but it seems that we've once again encountered a disconnect between your world and the one the rest of us live in. Far be it for me to stop you from exposing WMF Inc.'s insidious real estate plans, but this has gotten a little too crazy even for this list. I've placed you on indefinite moderation with the goal of improving the signal:crazy ratio. I'm flying home today after attending Wikimania 2009 and a few days of post-conference traveling, and will be out of contact for the next 36 hours or so. Ryan may be available this weekend to tend to the moderation queue, but I'm afraid that you might find some delay in posting for the next few days. Have a great weekend. Austin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Anthony : > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > >> 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs : >> > Which "accusations" do you speak of? >> >> "That's curious, considering they had "outgrown" space in January 2009, >> such >> that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's >> accounts receivable to expand their footprint." >> >> That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It >> doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable >> person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous >> comments) as anything else. > > Perhaps, but that part hasn't been disproven. Nor has the existence of a teapot in orbit. We do not disprove accusation, we prove them or shut the hell up. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Be nice
Okie dokie. 2009/9/5 Lodewijk > please! > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Its a serious charge that is difficult to prove. The publicly released financial statements are too general in nature to be useful. The only way to prove/disprove this allegation and head off others is for the Foundation to become more transparent. It is natural for people to come to assumptions when information is not available to them. The currently available financials are simply not transparent enough to prove what is going on. From: Thomas Dalton To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 7:54:49 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space? 2009/9/5 Anthony : > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > >> 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs : >> > Which "accusations" do you speak of? >> >> "That's curious, considering they had "outgrown" space in January 2009, >> such >> that they needed to shuttle Ruth and Frank Stanton's money over to Wikia's >> accounts receivable to expand their footprint." >> >> That is an accusation of illicit dealings for personal gain. It >> doesn't matter than you didn't explicitly accuse them, no reasonable >> person could interpret that sentence (in the context of your previous >> comments) as anything else. > > Perhaps, but that part hasn't been disproven. Nor has the existence of a teapot in orbit. We do not disprove accusation, we prove them or shut the hell up. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
The best way to end this in the future is to give the community a brief heads up along the line of "Hey y'all, we will be moving to NEW ADDRESS effective DATE" This lets us know beforehand that the business address is going to change, and allows the Foundation to leverage moving support from SF Wikimedians. From: geni To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 6:50:30 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space? 2009/9/5 Gregory Kohs : > I reported that the Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let space that it > itself is renting. I have an e-mail from the property management firm > confirming "the Wikimedia sublease". Erik Moeller has confirmed that the > Foundation is seeking to sub-let space. > > Which "accusations" do you speak of? "Now, only eight months later, are we to understand that instead of having “outgrown” its office space on Stillman Street, the WMF is swimming in surplus floor space, that they need to hire Grubb & Ellis to sub-let it out to someone else?" WMF is swimming in surplus floor space? > Why in the heck would I "apologize" for scooping the story that the > Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to sub-let office space, if only the > speculative intentions were a little off-base (I did not realize that the > WMF does not intend to stay at Stillman Street a while longer, since the > Foundation failed to communicate any significant "We're Moving Soon!" > announcement to the community). Spectacularly off-base. You threw in a bunch of accusations and innuendo based on a complete misunderstanding of events. The foundation doesn't talk about the particulars of it's office much but descriptions and photos do exist and It wouldn't have taken much work to realize that the amount described was pretty much consistent with the foundation's entire office. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Geoffrey Plourde : > Its a serious charge that is difficult to prove. The publicly released > financial statements are too general in nature to be useful. The only way to > prove/disprove this allegation and head off others is for the Foundation to > become more transparent. It is natural for people to come to assumptions when > information is not available to them. The currently available financials are > simply not transparent enough to prove what is going on. The Foundation has been sufficiently transparent. The reasons for leasing office space from Wikia were explained in detail when that deal was done (I think Sue [could have been someone else from WMF] explained it on this mailing list after people [probably me] drew attention to the need for an explanation). The plan to move into a single, larger office was mentioned ages ago. I don't see any need for an announcement of the old office going on the market, it is an obvious part of the process. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/5 Thomas Dalton : > The Foundation has been sufficiently transparent. The reasons for > leasing office space from Wikia were explained in detail when that > deal was done (I think Sue [could have been someone else from WMF] > explained it on this mailing list after people [probably me] drew > attention to the need for an explanation). The plan to move into a > single, larger office was mentioned ages ago. I don't see any need for > an announcement of the old office going on the market, it is an > obvious part of the process. Indeed. There's transparency, and then there's answering every piece of gibbering from someone who's announced elsewhere that there is nothing he does on any WMF site that is not intended as trolling. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling. 2009/9/5 Thomas Dalton : > The Foundation has been sufficiently transparent. The reasons for > leasing office space from Wikia were explained in detail when that > deal was done (I think Sue [could have been someone else from WMF] > explained it on this mailing list after people [probably me] drew > attention to the need for an explanation). The plan to move into a > single, larger office was mentioned ages ago. I don't see any need for > an announcement of the old office going on the market, it is an > obvious part of the process. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Geoffrey Plourde wrote: > The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move > would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling. They haven't moved yet. I bet we can safely let this topic drop, though. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde :
> The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move
> would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling.
Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they
are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be
newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
offices.").
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Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Thomas Dalton :
> 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde :
>> The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the
>> move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling.
>
> Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they
> are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be
> newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
> hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
> it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
> has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
> offices.").
I'm sure signpost would be interested. It usually is. Press release is
probably the wrong term though.
--
geni
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Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
> it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
> has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
> offices.").
Is that all they have, a plan? They're offering to sublet their place based
on nothing but a plan? They've only got a month to move out, and they
haven't even found the place they're moving into yet?
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Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Anthony :
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
>> A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
>> it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
>> has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
>> offices.").
>
>
> Is that all they have, a plan? They're offering to sublet their place based
> on nothing but a plan? They've only got a month to move out, and they
> haven't even found the place they're moving into yet?
Of course not. They have begun implementing that plan. At no point
during that implementation until they actually move is there anything
particularly newsworthy.
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Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/9/6 Anthony :
> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Thomas Dalton >wrote:
> >
> >> A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
> >> it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
> >> has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
> >> offices.").
> >
> >
> > Is that all they have, a plan? They're offering to sublet their place
> based
> > on nothing but a plan? They've only got a month to move out, and they
> > haven't even found the place they're moving into yet?
>
> Of course not. They have begun implementing that plan. At no point
> during that implementation until they actually move is there anything
> particularly newsworthy.
I'd consider their signing of a lease on a new place to be "newsworthy". By
the time they actually move I'd consider the move to be "old news". And if
they haven't yet signed a lease on a new place, I'd be quite surprised. In
fact, I'm not even sure if they've started to "actually move" yet.
The completion of the move is what isn't worthy of a press release.
Personally I don't care whether the WMF tells us about its move or not. But
waiting until after the move is completed to announce it is strange.
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Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
Correct, I meant announcement not press release. Announcing this move by
placing a blurb on the foundation site, asking for assistance on the sf list,
and letting the signpost know all would have headed this discussion off
From: geni
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 4:43:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
2009/9/6 Thomas Dalton :
> 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde :
>> The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the
>> move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling.
>
> Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they
> are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be
> newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
> hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
> it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
> has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
> offices.").
I'm sure signpost would be interested. It usually is. Press release is
probably the wrong term though.
--
geni
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Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
> The move itself will be > newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it > hasn't happened yet. As Wikimedia (or.. Wikipedia!) office address isn't publicly announced or published, the press release would be fantastic: "Wikipedia is moving from undisclosed location office to new undisclosed location office" :) Very useful. Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
