Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
Is it possible to formalize differences in present technology at some reasonable level? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
it the two are mixed, how to know which one to split off? one can also consider to rename the domain and split of portuguese portuguese with a separate project to be started from scratch. in other words: to decide which (sub)community has to start all over is not an easy decision. very best, oscar -- *edito ergo sum* ** The information contained in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ** ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
Hoi, Having two wikipedias for the same language is not allowed within the rules of the language policy. The premise that an article on the pt.wikipedia.orgis in Portuguese Portuguese is a fallacy. It would be the same as stating that every article on the English language Wikipedia is in American English. It is not. Milos in his reply is looking for a way out of this conundrum by technical means; effectively a tool that translates from one form of Portuguese into the other. Such a solution is for instance in use at the Serbian Wikipedia where the language is transliterated from Cyrillic into Latin script and the other way around. Thanks, GerardM On 22 March 2010 09:13, oscar os...@wikimedia.org wrote: it the two are mixed, how to know which one to split off? one can also consider to rename the domain and split of portuguese portuguese with a separate project to be started from scratch. in other words: to decide which (sub)community has to start all over is not an easy decision. very best, oscar -- *edito ergo sum* ** The information contained in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ** ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, Having two wikipedias for the same language is not allowed within the rules of the language policy. The premise that an article on the pt.wikipedia.orgis in Portuguese Portuguese is a fallacy. It would be the same as stating that every article on the English language Wikipedia is in American English. It is not. Milos in his reply is looking for a way out of this conundrum by technical means; effectively a tool that translates from one form of Portuguese into the other. Such a solution is for instance in use at the Serbian Wikipedia where the language is transliterated from Cyrillic into Latin script and the other way around. Thanks, GerardM I think it may be useful to note that the policy page on the the Portuguese wikipedia looks to the casual observer as if the folks on that wikipedia have expended some considerable thought on how to do this in the best possible manner: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vers%C3%B5es_da_l%C3%ADngua_portuguesa FWIW I do agree that of all the options the worst one would be to split into two projects. It could easily turn out that 50 % of European Portuguese speakers kept editing the old project, or even that only say a 10 % fringe group started editing the new European Portuguese only project. That would be a farce. Speaking only for myself, I don't think a word substitution solution should be tried either, except as a very last resort, with a very strong community consensus that that is the only way forward. To me it seems from the policy page linked above, that the contributors themselves of that community have thought things out for themselves pretty well. Of course I have not followed the Portuguese wikis community closely, so I may be very wrong, in which case there shouldn't be a problem for the wikis rough majority consensus to emerge, and action to be taken based on that. But in any case, nothing at all should be based on a single voice, there needs to be a multiplicity of viewpoints considered and consensus decision making employed. Yours, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
Hello Milos, The languages pt-pt and pt-br, they do not have a significant difference (pt-pt in general have a C in the words and pt-br no, among other things not very important). The Portuguese Wikipedia have many internal problems and this is the reality for people always request a new wiki (See on MetaWiki, we have a lot of requests for a new Portuguese Wikipedia.). A many time ago the language difference really was problem, now this is not more a problem. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthographic_Agreement_of_1990). I think the best option is the people from Portuguese Wikipedia make a resolution of your problems, but a new wiki dont is a solution for this. Tonight I talked with people of both countries, and they do not agree with the separation, perhaps this is a wish of a single person. Best regards Lestaty de Lioncourt ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] [Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Flagged Protection: ready for more testing]
For anyone not following wikien-l. -- Cary Bass Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Flagged Protection: ready for more testing
For those not reading WikiEN-l that actually want the forwarded message to be included. ;) -- Forwarded message -- From: William Pietri will...@scissor.com Date: 20 March 2010 23:22 Subject: [WikiEN-l] Flagged Protection: ready for more testing To: English Wikipedia wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org Hi! On behalf of the FlaggedRevs team, I'd like to announce that Flagged Protection, the proposed use of Flagged Revisions on the English Wikipedia, is ready for more testing. We have made a number of changes to improve clarity and usability for both novices and experienced editors. If you have an hour or two to devote to testing it, we'd love your thoughts. You need not jump in immediately; we'll be posting updates every week or so. But we'd like it to be in the best shape possible for the upcoming trial. Since we've been working without feedback for too long, I expect this first week or two will be bumpy, but bumps now are preferable to bumps later, so bear with us. To check it out, start here: http://flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page There's space for questions and discussion on the labs site, and I also welcome direct email and talk page questions. Thanks, William ___ WikiEN-l mailing list wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
If I understand the page in the ptWP correctly, they do not have the equivalent of the enWP rule that topics special to the UK, such as the article on London, are writing in the UK version of English, and those special to the US, like the article on New York City , are written in the American version of English (and analogously for Australian, Canadian, etc.). They do have the rule that if an article is started in one version it must be continued in that version--which in the enWP is supposed to be applied only to topics not special to one or another national version. Have they considered it? It certainly simplifies things in the enWP, at least for those who can easily switch between the forms. David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Sir Lestaty de Lioncourt wikimedia.lest...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Milos, The languages pt-pt and pt-br, they do not have a significant difference (pt-pt in general have a C in the words and pt-br no, among other things not very important). The Portuguese Wikipedia have many internal problems and this is the reality for people always request a new wiki (See on MetaWiki, we have a lot of requests for a new Portuguese Wikipedia.). A many time ago the language difference really was problem, now this is not more a problem. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthographic_Agreement_of_1990). I think the best option is the people from Portuguese Wikipedia make a resolution of your problems, but a new wiki dont is a solution for this. Tonight I talked with people of both countries, and they do not agree with the separation, perhaps this is a wish of a single person. Best regards Lestaty de Lioncourt ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
Yep, if you start a article in one version, this article must be continued in that version, but this is not a problem for the community (in the past yes, now no). Lestaty de Lioncourt 2010/3/22 David Goodman dgoodma...@gmail.com If I understand the page in the ptWP correctly, they do not have the equivalent of the enWP rule that topics special to the UK, such as the article on London, are writing in the UK version of English, and those special to the US, like the article on New York City , are written in the American version of English (and analogously for Australian, Canadian, etc.). They do have the rule that if an article is started in one version it must be continued in that version--which in the enWP is supposed to be applied only to topics not special to one or another national version. Have they considered it? It certainly simplifies things in the enWP, at least for those who can easily switch between the forms. David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
Ever since Mark Williamson posted the message from Manuel Coutinho suggesting the creation of a new version of Wikipedia in Portuguese from Portugal, I have wondered if this list is the best place to discuss this matter. This is a very serious and recurring issue: 2005: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Brazilian_Portuguese 2006: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_new_languages/Archives/2006-11#Discussion_of_the_poll_concerning_the_creation_of_an_European_Portuguese_Wikipedia 2007: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_European_Portuguese It also causes a lot of conflicts and animosity. There are heated discussions, with passionate and inflammatory statements that lead to exaggeration and uncorroborated «truths». Perhaps the reason the issue keeps popping up is that, although it has been extensively «discussed», it has not been properly addressed, much less solved. Perhaps the question is not the creation of a new version of Wikipedia, but to make the Portuguese Wikipedia appealing to all readers and writers (editors) of the Portuguese language. There might be solutions and proposals to address this problem which have been kept from seeing the light of day, for untold reasons. It might be worthwhile to open a page where the discussion could be centralized. It would be nice if the page could be bilingual, with one section in English, to open the discussion to the wider Wikimedia community, and another in Portuguese, for those who lack enough command of the English language to participate in the broader discussion. If anyone would be so kind as to suggest what that page might be and where it could be created, I would be more than happy to participate. Some statements have already been made in this list that require clarification. Sincerely, Virgilio A. P. Machado ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
On 22 March 2010 19:01, Virgilio A. P. Machado v...@fct.unl.pt wrote: Perhaps the reason the issue keeps popping up is that, although it has been extensively «discussed», it has not been properly addressed, much less solved. I think the reason it has never been addressed is that nobody outside the Portuguese community can see a problem. It all seems to be a lot of fuss about nothing. That means the wider Wikimedia community will never accept a two-wiki solution and the most obvious one-wiki solution is the one used by the English Wikipedia, namely: stop complaining and just write encyclopaedia articles. We're not going to indulge a community engaged in a childish argument about nothing. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
Thomas Dalton hett schreven: On 22 March 2010 19:01, Virgilio A. P. Machado v...@fct.unl.pt wrote: Perhaps the reason the issue keeps popping up is that, although it has been extensively «discussed», it has not been properly addressed, much less solved. I think the reason it has never been addressed is that nobody outside the Portuguese community can see a problem. It all seems to be a lot of fuss about nothing. That means the wider Wikimedia community will never accept a two-wiki solution and the most obvious one-wiki solution is the one used by the English Wikipedia, namely: stop complaining and just write encyclopaedia articles. We're not going to indulge a community engaged in a childish argument about nothing. I hope you speak Portuguese. Cause decisions like this should be made by people who know the language variants and their differences and not by outsiders. Leave the decision to the speakers of Portuguese. Anyway it seems that the majority of speakers does not want to split. Outsiders can assist by giving advice. E.g. how to minimize the problems that arise from the differences. But outsiders shouldn't impose decisions on the community. Marcus Buck User:Slomox ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Pt-Portuguese Wikipedia
On 22 March 2010 20:24, Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org wrote: I hope you speak Portuguese. Cause decisions like this should be made by people who know the language variants and their differences and not by outsiders. Leave the decision to the speakers of Portuguese. Anyway it seems that the majority of speakers does not want to split. Outsiders can assist by giving advice. E.g. how to minimize the problems that arise from the differences. But outsiders shouldn't impose decisions on the community. I don't speak Portuguese, but that doesn't stop me knowing that different dialects of it are mutually intelligible. What happens with the existing project is a matter for that project's community, but the creation of a new project is a matter for the wider Wikimedia community. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Strategic Planning Office Hours
Hi everyone, The next strategic planning office hours are: Tuesday, 2000-21:00 UTC, which is: -Tuesday (1-2pm PDT) -Tuesday (4-5pm EDT) Office hours will be a great opportunity to discuss the work that's happened as well as the work to come. As always, you can access the chat by going to https://webchat.freenode.net and filling in a username and the channel name (#wikimedia-strategy). You may be prompted to click through a security warning. It's fine. More details at: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours Thanks! Hope to see many of you there. Philippe Beaudette Facilitator, Strategy Project Wikimedia Foundation phili...@wikimedia.org Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
