[Foundation-l] Strategic Planning Office Hours
Hi Everyone - Our next strategic planning office hours will be: 04:00-05:00 UTC, Wednesday, 23 June. Local timezones can be checked at http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010month=6day=23hour=04min=0sec=0p1=0 As always, you can access the chat by going to https://webchat.freenode.net and filling in a username and the channel name (#wikimedia-strategy). You may be prompted to click through a security warning. It's fine. More details at: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours Topics that may be addressed: The Call for Action, mobilizing people around proposals, Wikimania. Thanks! Hope to see many of you there. Philippe Beaudette Facilitator, Strategy Project Wikimedia Foundation phili...@wikimedia.org Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encouraging participation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 20/06/2010 23:23, Keegan Peterzell wrote: If you're never read it, you'd probably enjoy this article from the Journal of American History penned by the late, great Dr. Roy Rosenzweig from June 2006: http://chnm.gmu.edu/essays-on-history-new-media/essays/?essayid=42 Lot of useful information, thank you. I'd like to pinpoint a few arguments from it: Among other things, the no original research policy limiting expert implication... I was always bothered by Wikipedia being a repository of traditional knowledge but not novel, challenging, trying ideas. Why not add a tab for each article, called hypothesis where original research is tolerated, though all the other wp rules still apply? People who don't want speculation or dubious content would read the main tab, people who want to know possible interpretations and hypothesis would also read the secondary tab. Also, it seems that experts and academicians don't like being challenged by profanes. (I think they need to learn to be) The Internet would now grind to a halt without such free and open-source resources as the operating system Linux, the Web server software Apache, the database MySql, and the programming language php. If someone can backup this affirmation with studies and sources, I would be grateful. I think there is a direct link between free software and free knowledge and culture. The transformation of solutions and ideas into proprietary goods with monetary value is a dead end, I think, and the major obstacle to progress and freedom. But it's extremely difficult to prove or disprove this theory because of the magnitude and complexity of its scope. However, it is essential to try to understand what is happening and what may happen with knowledge, both with the traditional systems and the free ones like wp. If we manage to have a clear idea and model of it, we can build better our philosophy, explain it better, and possibly achieve a bigger consensus. Back on the subject of encouraging participation, a general consideration: Practical solutions are immediate and efficient, but usually lead to unwanted deviations from the principles. So one should always ask himself or herself, what are the consequences of this practical solution? How strong is the change of perspective it introduces? Is this change desirable, mergeable with our main goals, or at least reversible? Or will we corrupt our direction for too long (or forever) if we implement this working approach? This questioning is notable with the recent questions of attracting more users, of censorship and of attracting experts. Should we retain our policies and stall our development or should we introduce change to keep growing? My point is to judge the impact of the change comparing it to our long-term direction. We cannot trade a short-term benefit for a long-term goal (expressed in our policies) if the modifications cannot be changed later. If we cede to censorship, can we regain our loss of independance? If we invite frivolous minds, can we educate them? If we give privileges to experts, can we teach them to rescind them later? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMH53tAAoJEHCAuDvx9Z6LDk4IAOOWkp0UQ9rcZ3HSv/og+GYu 9nF83JJz0LJ51GtPh28vcapxLsOghmFVGCrd/tD9AesGj9uh3F5LhAi/THxEJDxu wY+YpCN/A/6poTxaazy7x06n+cdJ3Yo3Q4UYdA9XP3V63352m/kp7hIT2hArhqeL wqxP58PD2XNEMgg3E8LX2UfdD7gLp6jB+Cd+F7Zmiw5mvLJ8y0j3CnH0yR19PxVs BCI1DZKZKOdfoAN+Jo2H8yxhe3zeIgwS5nEyJ5iJIvkt5Iuu2Yv8cjOS5NIsJ2e3 0zUZWiMmHSaxbDV9KsF2mgotNluYej5LOBOrdkeAsZeybkc5Q2eb+w2D4EPQe1o= =VnOr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Gmail - List messages flagged as spam
I reached out to Google about this, and they tell me it should be fixed later today, at least for misclassified listserv messages. According to our contact there, the misclassification happened because spammers have included images from Wikimedia projects in spam messages. Let me know offlist if you see additional false positives from here on. -- Erik Möller Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] interesting article on anonymous internet posting (and 3 for Erik)
First so that I don't do a separate email on the subject Thank you Erik for getting a hold of google :) I found an interesting article that was in the Boston Globe Magazine this weekend about anonymous posting on the internet. The article focuses on those who post on Boston.com but I obviously jumped to comparing it to us (myopic perhaps?) . I actually think it's a better article on the subject then I've seen for a while with some good video as well. http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/articles/2010/06/20/inside_the_mind_of_the_anonymous_online_poster/?page=full James Alexander james.alexan...@rochester.edu jameso...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Encouraging participation
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Noein prono...@gmail.com wrote: If we cede to censorship, can we regain our loss of independance? If we invite frivolous minds, can we educate them? If we give privileges to experts, can we teach them to rescind them later? I think if we've learned anything, it is our ability to right the ship. At one point I thought of Wikimedia as a pontoon, with a motor. At this point, it is a catamaran, with a sail hanging high. In the long run we'll reach shore, until then we're sailing in any direction. Which is fine, because for some reason it works. When we wind up at a strange island, we'll figure out the language. Magellan taught us that :) -- ~Keegan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] encouraging women's participation
Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Besides that, contemporary term for site is social network. There are just more and less successful social networks. Wikimedia is successful social network for a very specific type of demographics: young middle class males. Actually, not so young anymore. I think that we are loosing males from younger generations, too. That means that we have to work on diversification of our editor demographics. And one edit in ten days is better than no edits at all. We need cleverly created concepts which would make editing easy, fun, causal. With a lot of interesting content around; probably, based on existing Wikimedia content, but not necessary. The time when wiki concept was new and interesting passed a few years ago. And even Microsoft has better sense for new technologies than us. For example, our goal is not to make a possibility to read Wikipedia from iPhone. Apple did that. The goal is to have easy access to editing from iPhone. Isn't an iPhone one of those gadgets with about 10 cm of screen and no keyboard? Why would we want to encourage some- one to edit with such a device? It must be very frustrating to do so properly, and we don't profit, in fact it is to our disadvantage if it's done improperly. While I appreciate the efforts to encourage wider partici- pation, IMHO we should make sure that we keep the quality of our products and our human resources in mind. No edits at all may be better than one edit in ten days for probably 99% of the population. And I don't think that we will at- tract the right 1% who will wander the libraries and the web in search of the missing pieces of information, tackle thick books and pause before clicking on the Save button to es- timate whether their edit will find the approval of their peers, by emphasizing that editing is easy or fun - because it isn't. And it probably shouldn't be. Tim ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
Dear List, My name is Jeffrey Peters, a professional researcher who is currently working on my dissertation (dealing with Romantic poetry) and in addition Masters in Classical Lit. I am writing to you today to announce the donation of two fully written pages on two important poems of the English language: Wordsworth's *Ode: Intimations of Immortality* and Coleridge's *Kubla Khan*. Their current pages are almost stub level and contain many errors and problems. Both rewrites/expansions can be found on Simple Wikipedia, a project that is noble and deserves more involvement by the community as a whole: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Ode:_Intimations_of_Immortality http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Kubla_Khan The above are works of love, and I dedicated dozens of hours at multiple DC university libraries compiling research that, as far as I can tell, cannot be found elsewhere in such a complete and concise form in print or on the internet. I have provided my time and abilities to produce the page for the betterment of the WMF and Wikipedia as a whole. I do so because of four individuals who have inspired me over the last year: Jimbo Wales (for his dedication to the idea of a free and complete encyclopedia), Samuel Klein (for his dedication to the projects and valiant effort to ensure high quality), Cary Bass (for the massive amount of time he puts in ensuring that volunteers are able to succeed), and Philippe Beaudette (for striving to make the WMF more academic friendly). Previously, I donated the material for Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard but I did not compile one whole page with every aspect but included material in a piecemeal fashion. This did not work as well as I hoped, so I put in the additional effort to ensure that the pages can be considered complete, though they may need additional minor copyedits to remove any final errors. I hope that my donation today will aid Wikipedia's continuing quest to provide a free and educational encyclopedia, and I hope that the level of effort and critical eye, to an extent that appears unrivaled in any current poetry page (even in my previous works), will attract more people to Wikipedia who shall do the same. Sincerely, Jeffrey Peters aka Ottava Rima ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] encouraging women's participation
On 22 June 2010 00:10, Tim Landscheidt t...@tim-landscheidt.de wrote: Isn't an iPhone one of those gadgets with about 10 cm of screen and no keyboard? Why would we want to encourage some- one to edit with such a device? It must be very frustrating to do so properly, and we don't profit, in fact it is to our disadvantage if it's done improperly. Augmented reality. Wikipedia's coverage of local history and geography benefits if we can get edits from people on the move. While I appreciate the efforts to encourage wider partici- pation, IMHO we should make sure that we keep the quality of our products and our human resources in mind. No edits at all may be better than one edit in ten days for probably 99% of the population. Given that 99% of the population is over 6 billion people 1 edit every ten days would result in a lot of worthwhile edits. And I don't think that we will at- tract the right 1% who will wander the libraries and the web in search of the missing pieces of information, tackle thick books and pause before clicking on the Save button to es- timate whether their edit will find the approval of their peers, by emphasizing that editing is easy or fun - because it isn't. And it probably shouldn't be. If wikipedia is to survive it needs to be fun. If wikipedia is going to get a broad coverage it needs to be easy. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
Jeffrey Peters wrote: Both rewrites/expansions can be found on Simple Wikipedia, a project that is noble and deserves more involvement by the community as a whole: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Ode:_Intimations_of_Immortalit y http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Kubla_Khan Neither article appears to be written in Simple English (or whatever the Simple English Wikipedia has contrived to mean Simple English). MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
On 22 June 2010 01:25, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Jeffrey Peters wrote: Both rewrites/expansions can be found on Simple Wikipedia, a project that is noble and deserves more involvement by the community as a whole: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Ode:_Intimations_of_Immortalit y http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Kubla_Khan Neither article appears to be written in Simple English (or whatever the Simple English Wikipedia has contrived to mean Simple English). MZMcBride I assume Ottava is using the pages in question as a holding ground until they can be moved over to en. If you really need to know the details see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Ottava_Rima_restrictions#Ottava_Rima_banned But the short version is that in an environment full of people with poor social skill's Ottava's approach to interactions has caused problems. Good content editor mind. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
Dear MZMcBride, As you can see from *The Author's Farce* ( http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Author's_Farce), I work first by writing a standard page then simplify it. It is currently at the 11th grade level, which is actually below many Simple English DYK noms that I have simplified from other people before to allow them to proceed. It would be difficult to write a scholarly work straight into Simple English, but, as I have shown, it is easy to write it first in standard scholarly language them simplify. I would like to ask more writers of quality content on the standard Wikipedia to simplify their material, after returning to the sources to make sure the simplifcation falls within the source material, so that Simple English will have more high quality pages. Sincerely, Jeffrey Peters aka Ottava Rima On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:25 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Jeffrey Peters wrote: Both rewrites/expansions can be found on Simple Wikipedia, a project that is noble and deserves more involvement by the community as a whole: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Ode:_Intimations_of_Immortalit y http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Kubla_Khan Neither article appears to be written in Simple English (or whatever the Simple English Wikipedia has contrived to mean Simple English). MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] encouraging women's participation
If wikipedia is to survive it needs to be fun. If wikipedia is going to get a broad coverage it needs to be easy. Exactly! Given that 99% of the population is over 6 billion people 1 edit every ten days would result in a lot of worthwhile edits. As to the best of my belief the healthier (more natural, organic) future of WP and all other projects is contribution of wast amount of people who work not so regularly - mainly when curiosity strikes versus fierce/fanatic :-P activity of (relatively) very small ...tribe of wp-geeks (like we are :) ). pavlo On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:21 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 June 2010 00:10, Tim Landscheidt t...@tim-landscheidt.de wrote: Isn't an iPhone one of those gadgets with about 10 cm of screen and no keyboard? Why would we want to encourage some- one to edit with such a device? It must be very frustrating to do so properly, and we don't profit, in fact it is to our disadvantage if it's done improperly. Augmented reality. Wikipedia's coverage of local history and geography benefits if we can get edits from people on the move. While I appreciate the efforts to encourage wider partici- pation, IMHO we should make sure that we keep the quality of our products and our human resources in mind. No edits at all may be better than one edit in ten days for probably 99% of the population. Given that 99% of the population is over 6 billion people 1 edit every ten days would result in a lot of worthwhile edits. And I don't think that we will at- tract the right 1% who will wander the libraries and the web in search of the missing pieces of information, tackle thick books and pause before clicking on the Save button to es- timate whether their edit will find the approval of their peers, by emphasizing that editing is easy or fun - because it isn't. And it probably shouldn't be. If wikipedia is to survive it needs to be fun. If wikipedia is going to get a broad coverage it needs to be easy. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Jeffrey Peters 17pet...@cardinalmail.cua.edu wrote: .. I would like to ask more writers of quality content on the standard Wikipedia to simplify their material, after returning to the sources to make sure the simplifcation falls within the source material, so that Simple English will have more high quality pages. I would like more people who care about plays printed in 1730 to scan and transcribe them... ;-) -- John Vandenberg ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Oh Kubla Khan! Jorge Luis Borges was fond of the palace's story and the poem. Thank you for your hard work. On 22/06/2010 02:05, Jeffrey Peters wrote: Dear List, My name is Jeffrey Peters, a professional researcher who is currently working on my dissertation (dealing with Romantic poetry) and in addition Masters in Classical Lit. I am writing to you today to announce the donation of two fully written pages on two important poems of the English language: Wordsworth's *Ode: Intimations of Immortality* and Coleridge's *Kubla Khan*. Their current pages are almost stub level and contain many errors and problems. Both rewrites/expansions can be found on Simple Wikipedia, a project that is noble and deserves more involvement by the community as a whole: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Ode:_Intimations_of_Immortality http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Kubla_Khan The above are works of love, and I dedicated dozens of hours at multiple DC university libraries compiling research that, as far as I can tell, cannot be found elsewhere in such a complete and concise form in print or on the internet. I have provided my time and abilities to produce the page for the betterment of the WMF and Wikipedia as a whole. I do so because of four individuals who have inspired me over the last year: Jimbo Wales (for his dedication to the idea of a free and complete encyclopedia), Samuel Klein (for his dedication to the projects and valiant effort to ensure high quality), Cary Bass (for the massive amount of time he puts in ensuring that volunteers are able to succeed), and Philippe Beaudette (for striving to make the WMF more academic friendly). Previously, I donated the material for Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard but I did not compile one whole page with every aspect but included material in a piecemeal fashion. This did not work as well as I hoped, so I put in the additional effort to ensure that the pages can be considered complete, though they may need additional minor copyedits to remove any final errors. I hope that my donation today will aid Wikipedia's continuing quest to provide a free and educational encyclopedia, and I hope that the level of effort and critical eye, to an extent that appears unrivaled in any current poetry page (even in my previous works), will attract more people to Wikipedia who shall do the same. Sincerely, Jeffrey Peters aka Ottava Rima ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMICqBAAoJEHCAuDvx9Z6LAooH/i35RV7GdKN+IByqbbDBwrJt mMrUNqCLfEwn1PWw29ld9d0nyCWsZK/cc+390lguipIdRn1hyNnX8yuhjomv9OOb LnE6ZfpHIf9wUNhgUPHuol0/CHPu/Re6QP1euRm+Qpbtg+Hhhh9j/JNbkb+CyaHK UGyiu/iIVVPeDDxBHo4TcoCfE30t2/2osr5im3ykZVUA7FnWVEH1ORIelPNuBkRz dVjMqISyDqFzt2GSfLrfzj0YPeRlQI9m5aYENdFVS0JipusnKTTPY6VO6RKC7nhu bOs+HA80Xw9qXHrRKMaoTn+PaWFdlQg0OCz+LK4UIJaC2PJWVaJSGz1t87YaFlI= =BFvU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Jeffrey Peters 17pet...@cardinalmail.cua.edu wrote: Dear List, My name is Jeffrey Peters, a professional researcher who is currently working on my dissertation (dealing with Romantic poetry) and in addition Masters in Classical Lit. I am writing to you today to announce the donation of two fully written pages on two important poems of the English language: Wordsworth's *Ode: Intimations of Immortality* and Coleridge's *Kubla Khan*. Their current pages are almost stub level and contain many errors and problems. Both rewrites/expansions can be found on Simple Wikipedia, a project that is noble and deserves more involvement by the community as a whole: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Ode:_Intimations_of_Immortality http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Kubla_Khan Delightful. Thank you, Jeffrey - I hope you don't mind them being used to update en:wp as well. And I agree that Simple Wikipedia deserves more involvement from the community as a whole, and from expert writers in particular. SJ ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems
THANK YOU . RANDY R. PARR HAVE A NICE D. -Original Message- From: Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: 21-Jun-2010 23:26:13 + Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Donation of Encyclopedic Entries on Famous Poems On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Jeffrey Peters 17pet...@cardinalmail.cua.edu wrote: Dear List, My name is Jeffrey Peters, a professional researcher who is currently working on my dissertation (dealing with Romantic poetry) and in addition Masters in Classical Lit. I am writing to you today to announce the donation of two fully written pages on two important poems of the English language: Wordsworth's *Ode: Intimations of Immortality* and Coleridge's *Kubla Khan*. Their current pages are almost stub level and contain many errors and problems. Both rewrites/expansions can be found on Simple Wikipedia, a project that is noble and deserves more involvement by the community as a whole: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Ode:_Intimations_of_Immortality http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ottava_Rima/Kubla_Khan Delightful. Thank you, Jeffrey - I hope you don't mind them being used to update en:wp as well. And I agree that Simple Wikipedia deserves more involvement from the community as a whole, and from expert writers in particular. SJ ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] encouraging women's participation
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html As well as dopamine works during the work, not when the prize has been get: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrCVu25wQ5s Watch this, too: http://g4tv.com/videos/44277/dice-2010-design-outside-the-box-presentation/ ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
