Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On 21/01/2011 03:36, whothis wrote: Thanks for introducing yourself Achal after so many years on the Advisory Board. Dare I suggest, you add part of that introduction to your Advisory Board page on one of the wikis. About the 5 year plan, dare I suggest you get around to reading that one of these days, you're on the Advisory Board after all. Let me clarify something, the page thats being linked to by Erik Moeller is a grant page, you are appointed as a fellow. I might be wrong on this but none of the other fellows had to apply for grants or the majority of them did not. Even the existence of such a process was unknown to most. The grant in question, I have no issue with, you are more than welcome to pursue any research you want, its your position as the fellow that I am concerned about. You can't be on an advisory board and tell a non-profit organization what to do as a pro-bono advisor to the board and then get paid by the said foundation as a fellow a few years into your tenure, serving both positions at the same time. This I believe, wreaks of impropriety, none of the other Advisory Board members ever had or will have the same privilege I assume, which is why I replied to this thread in the first place. This is something that the Foundation should have checked and announced before your appointment. In my opinion, you can have one or the other, you can either be a paid staff member/researcher for as long as the foundation employs you or you can be on the board as an advisor. Also, from your and Erik's admission above, the scope of your involvement seems to be far larger than I previously thought, encompassing the board, chapters and other kinds of affiliation that might usefully exist within our world, this only heightens my concerns even more. I hope others reading this realize the implication of your appointment. I had no idea who you were before this, and still don't, its nothing personal against you. Its the foundation I am bringing this up to, which I hope realizes, is for their own benefit. E. Forrester Welcome Achal! Well, it seems you were already there for longer than I was, so welcome feels strange to say. But anyway, it's good to have someone important coming out of the shadow to receive a well deserved grant. Speaking of which, I feel merrier when I know why I'm applauding, so don't be modest and tell us in full detail about your merits! To the people who are wary: come on my friends, it's only power and money. Assume good faith from the people who are handling it and go back to a quiet mode as usual. Keep positive vibes like edits and donations coming, though. Achal even tossed a solution to your *emotional* problems: half an hour of Pranayama every morning: it makes one feel calm and loving. That was very considered from his part, given how busy he is. You can also try some pills. Cheers. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On 21 January 2011 06:36, whothis whoth...@gmail.com wrote: You can't be on an advisory board and tell a non-profit organization what to do as a pro-bono advisor to the board and then get paid by the said foundation as a fellow a few years into your tenure, serving both positions at the same time. I think you are over-estimating the influence of the Advisory Board. It's a loose collection of people that support the movement and have useful experience that get asked occasional questions by the Board and get invited to Wikimania every year. They don't have any power. I don't see a conflict of interest here. Achal could easily give up his position on the Advisory Board and it wouldn't change anything - the board could still ask him questions if they wanted to, he could still get a ticket to Wikimania through any one of several routes (normal scholarship, foundation staff, guest of the foundation, etc.). Being on the Advisory Board doesn't really mean anything, it's just an honorarium given to people to thank them for their advice and to make things more convenient administratively. I don't see how an honorarium can give rise to a conflict of interest. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 4:24 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On 21 January 2011 06:36, whothis whoth...@gmail.com wrote: You can't be on an advisory board and tell a non-profit organization what to do as a pro-bono advisor to the board and then get paid by the said foundation as a fellow a few years into your tenure, serving both positions at the same time. I think you are over-estimating the influence of the Advisory Board. It's a loose collection of people that support the movement and have useful experience that get asked occasional questions by the Board and get invited to Wikimania every year. They don't have any power. I don't see a conflict of interest here. That's exactly right. An advisory board for most organizations is merely a way to try to coax some labor out of valuable people with needed expertise who are very busy with their own projects and careers. There is absolutely no power held by the advisory board. Hence the Advisory label. We're lucky when we can get members to find time to help us in significant ways, and in this case even luckier that we have Achal working on an intensive project for a time. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:26 AM, Achal Prabhala aprabh...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 21 January 2011 07:26 AM, MZMcBride wrote: Achal Prabhala wrote: Greetings, I'm happy to tell you a little more about myself and the scope of this short-term research project I'm undertaking, and I'm as happy to assume that you fully intended for your messages to come across as decorous and rational. Hi. I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. However, you seem to have only replied, not responded. I am, however, involved on a daily basis with all kinds of work that is related to the movement, and I'm delighted to be of use to you. What kind of daily involvement? Is this work in your capacity as a volunteer, as a member of the Advisory Board, or as a Wikimedia Fellow? In all these capacities and more. Now to the project. I see that neither of you gentlemen has any thoughts on it, and I welcome your engagement. I'll admit that I don't particularly care what you're working on. That's approximately my attitude toward what the other Wikimedia Fellows are working on as well. That's the spirit. And I've always felt that a waste is a terrible thing to mind. I do care if you received the Fellowship for different reasons than the other Fellows, though. I do care if there's the appearance of impropriety or a conflict of interest (or worse, actual impropriety or conflicts of interest). I'll repeat the questions I feel you haven't answered. You're obviously free to not answer them ever, but I do want to make sure that your reply to the opening thread isn't viewed as a response to most of the questions asked about/to you. MZMcBride wrote: More importantly, is there a concern about an Advisory Board member being chosen as a Wikimedia Fellow? Is there a conflict of interest there? Is there a concern about the appearance of impropriety? Achal has a growing influence on Wikimedia, particularly its new operations in India. This has included being part of the hiring decisions, etc. This is more of a consultant role, making his selection as a Wikimedia Fellow even stranger. And his growing influence and power in such a big part of Wikimedia's five-year strategy is making people wary. If you could answer some of these questions, particularly about what your specific role has been in hiring in India, I'd really appreciate it (as would many members of this list, I imagine). In your reply, you say that you're involved on a daily basis with all kinds of work that is related to the movement, but also that reports of my influence are greatly exaggerated [in the context of the strategy report]. These statements don't seem to reconcile with me currently. And I never meant to suggest that you were deeply involved with the strategy _report_, but with the strategy _implementation_. There's a world of difference. If you've been involved with the hiring process in India, you should say so outright as someone who's committed to openness and transparency. You're right. I should. But somehow, I assumed it was perfectly clear - not to mention open and transparent - after this report (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Report,_November_2010#India_planning) and this one (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Report,_December_2010#India_planning), as well as countless other conversations that were had on the subject. If you've been involved with site selection in India or whatever else, you should say so. These are the things I'm hearing, but I've no idea what level of truth there is to them. That's why I started this thread and that's why I'm glad you've replied (though I'd be more glad if you responded). As E. Forrester noted, there is a wariness among some Wikimedia participants that an inner circle exists, but I think you might be able dispel some of this notion with more candid responses. Settle down, my friend...going around in circles will make us all dizzy. Personally, I recommend half an hour of Pranayama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama) every morning: it makes one feel calm and loving. MZMcBride Oh, I like it. Glad to see you're one of us, Achal ;-) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
Bonjour, J'espère m'adresser au bon endroit. Aujourd'hui, ma nièce m'a appelé à l'ordinateur en me disant que Wikipédia faisait de la publicité pour un site pour adultes. Je lui ai dit que Wikipédia n'affichait pas de publicité. Elle a insisté et voilà ce que j'ai découvert : http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg C'était sur ce lien : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Pourquoi ces liens publicitaires ? Je suis vraiment très étonné. François P.S. Je ne sais pas si je dois écrire en anglais. Est-ce que quelqu'un peut traduire mon message ? Merci. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
This is a translation only per request from original poster: Hello, I hoping I'm contacting the right people: Today my niece called me to the computer saying that Wikipedia was advertising an adult site. I told her that Wikipedia doesn't show ads. She insisted and this is what I found: http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg It was using this address: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Why advertising links? I'm really surprised. User:AlexandrDmitri for François (OP) Le 21 janvier 2011 16:58, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonjour, J'espère m'adresser au bon endroit. Aujourd'hui, ma nièce m'a appelé à l'ordinateur en me disant que Wikipédia faisait de la publicité pour un site pour adultes. Je lui ai dit que Wikipédia n'affichait pas de publicité. Elle a insisté et voilà ce que j'ai découvert : http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg C'était sur ce lien : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Pourquoi ces liens publicitaires ? Je suis vraiment très étonné. François P.S. Je ne sais pas si je dois écrire en anglais. Est-ce que quelqu'un peut traduire mon message ? Merci. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
Ce n'est pas Wikipedia, qui semble être Wikiwix. Il semble que vous voyez wikipedia par le biais d'un système de cache dont ils disposent, et dans le processus d'utilisation de la mémoire cache, il affiche des annonces (semblable à ce que google ne) That is not Wikipedia, that appears to be wikiwix. It appears that you are viewing wikipedia through a cache system that they have, and in the process of using the cache it displays ads (similar to what google does) John 2011/1/21 F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com Bonjour, J'espère m'adresser au bon endroit. Aujourd'hui, ma nièce m'a appelé à l'ordinateur en me disant que Wikipédia faisait de la publicité pour un site pour adultes. Je lui ai dit que Wikipédia n'affichait pas de publicité. Elle a insisté et voilà ce que j'ai découvert : http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg C'était sur ce lien : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Pourquoi ces liens publicitaires ? Je suis vraiment très étonné. François P.S. Je ne sais pas si je dois écrire en anglais. Est-ce que quelqu'un peut traduire mon message ? Merci. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
On 1/21/11, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: Bonjour, J'espère m'adresser au bon endroit. Aujourd'hui, ma nièce m'a appelé à l'ordinateur en me disant que Wikipédia faisait de la publicité pour un site pour adultes. Je lui ai dit que Wikipédia n'affichait pas de publicité. Elle a insisté et voilà ce que j'ai découvert : http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg C'était sur ce lien : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Pourquoi ces liens publicitaires ? Je suis vraiment très étonné. Sorry I cannot speak French. The screenshot you put is from a website called wikiwix.com which has nothing to do with Wikipedia or the Wikimedia Foundation, they only redistribute the content. Wikipedia cannot control what kind of advertising third party website uses together with its articles. Cruccone ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
Achal Prabhala wrote: In all these capacities and more. 33 That's the spirit. And I've always felt that a waste is a terrible thing to mind. 81 [links shortened] http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=2284834#India_planning http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=2284834#India_planning First link: 231 Second link: 285 Settle down, my friend...going around in circles will make us all dizzy. 72 Personally, I recommend half an hour of Pranayama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama) every morning: it makes one feel calm and loving. 140! Your commitment to openness and transparency is ready to be transferred to a Twitter account. You'll have to work with Erik to make all of his openness and transparency fit. (In all seriousness, thank you, Erik, for the reports.) I don't know why anyone would be interested (in more than 500 characters) about one of the biggest portions of Wikimedia's five-year plan (which you didn't help write, I get it!). But your snide answers to legitimate questions only serves to highlight the exact problems and concerns that most people have been quietly observing in you. Good work. MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 12:36 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Achal Prabhala wrote: In all these capacities and more. 33 That's the spirit. And I've always felt that a waste is a terrible thing to mind. 81 [links shortened] http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=2284834#India_planning http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=2284834#India_planning First link: 231 Second link: 285 Settle down, my friend...going around in circles will make us all dizzy. 72 Personally, I recommend half an hour of Pranayama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama) every morning: it makes one feel calm and loving. 140! Your commitment to openness and transparency is ready to be transferred to a Twitter account. You'll have to work with Erik to make all of his openness and transparency fit. (In all seriousness, thank you, Erik, for the reports.) I don't know why anyone would be interested (in more than 500 characters) about one of the biggest portions of Wikimedia's five-year plan (which you didn't help write, I get it!). But your snide answers to legitimate questions only serves to highlight the exact problems and concerns that most people have been quietly observing in you. Good work. MZMcBride Honestly, I don't see how you could expect a better set of answers given your approach. You're not a prosecutor, and you have no right to interrogate him about whatever improprieties you and your supposedly like-minded (but anonymous and uncounted) associates perceive. You're also not a shareholder, an auditor, or in any other fashion entitled to receive polite replies to snide implications of corruption. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
Bonjour François En fait, wikiwix n'est pas un site miroir de Wikipedia (une copie). C'est un peu plus compliqué. Le lien sur lequel vous avez cliqué fait partie des liens de références (c'est à dire des liens menant vers des sites web externes, qui sont utilisés comme sources de l'article). Par exemple, ce lien est une source externe: http://www.t4cdev.com/ Ce qui se produit est que les pages web parfois utilisées comme sources disparaissent. Soient que de gratuites, elles passent en version payantes avec code d'accès. Soient que le site hébergeur les déplacent (change leur url). Soient qu'elles soient tout simplement otées du site source. C'est évidemment ennuyeux pour nos articles car une information source devient alors inaccessible. Ce que fournit le système wikiwix (qui est en effet indépendant de Wikipedia) est un système d'archivage des pages web sources. Wikiwix copie la page et l'archive. Si la page vient à disparaitre ou devenir inaccessible, la version originale est toujours accessible via le système d'archivage wikiwix. Ainsi, par rapport au lien susmentionné, la version archivée est accessible ici: http://wikiwix.com/cache/?url=http://www.t4cdev.com/title=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t4cdev.com%2F Donc, je récapitule... Votre nièce est sur Wikipedia (sans publicité) Elle clique sur un lien externe (lien vers un site externe à Wikipedia, utilisé comme source dans l'article), dans son état archivé (par une société indépendante de Wikipedia). Cette société d'archivage se rémunère par le biais de publicité. Et c'est depuis le site de cette société que votre nièce est tombée sur de la publicité pour un site pour adulte. Merci Florence On 1/21/11 5:58 PM, F.-F. Duron wrote: Bonjour, J'espère m'adresser au bon endroit. Aujourd'hui, ma nièce m'a appelé à l'ordinateur en me disant que Wikipédia faisait de la publicité pour un site pour adultes. Je lui ai dit que Wikipédia n'affichait pas de publicité. Elle a insisté et voilà ce que j'ai découvert : http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg C'était sur ce lien : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Pourquoi ces liens publicitaires ? Je suis vraiment très étonné. François P.S. Je ne sais pas si je dois écrire en anglais. Est-ce que quelqu'un peut traduire mon message ? Merci. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On 21 January 2011 17:36, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Your commitment to openness and transparency is ready to be transferred to a Twitter account. You'll have to work with Erik to make all of his openness and transparency fit. (In all seriousness, thank you, Erik, for the reports.) You started in attack mode and continued in attack mode. This is not a good way to get anyone to bother talking to you. No-one is in fact obliged to respond to you on foundation-l, indeed many WMF employees and WMF and chapter volunteers don't read it, referring instead to it as troll-l. It would be nice if this weren't the case. Approaches such as yours, which merely makes you look like you're out for a fight, are why. Please reconsider. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
I was going to drop this and fade away until your patronizing comments. First, I am not a gentleman, I would be a lady, according to the pseudo-chivalrous, patronizing tone you used in your last response. //That's the spirit. And I've always felt that a waste is a terrible thing to mind. //Settle down, my friend...going around in circles will make us all dizzy. //Personally, I recommend half an hour of Pranayama //(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama) every morning: it makes one //feel calm and loving. Now, I took offense to this, Antagonizing the only two people who asked a direct and straightforward question about your position and conflicting interests while the rest of the list remains quiet. We are taught to assume good faith, thats one of the founding principles of the organization that you supposedly lead. Now, if I were to make an ad hominem attack in response along those lines, I might say something like, you have an atrocious command of the English Language, you know ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language). Invoking Shaw, and mis-attributing a quote implies nothing about your literary prowess, just the lack of it. //In all these capacities and more. On to the point, You are very actively involved in the hiring process from the last two reports that you linked to, you have been interviewing the potential hires. Perhaps you're the only member on the Advisory Board who has ever been this involved in the hiring decisions. I assume you probably had some say in selecting the current Board Member from India since you announced his appointment, you helped form the Indian chapter and started with the south African one by your own admission. Now, for someone who knows so little about the 5 year plan, our ethos and the community you are none the less leading, thats an awful lot of control to exert. Incidentally, the two areas that you are representing are also the focus according to the 5 year plan, which you were allegedly not actively involved in formulating. All of this could be looked at as payoff or reward from the outside, with opportunities for more down the road, but that would be assuming Bad faith, and we certainly don't do that. I fear that I have gone too far, Maybe its time for someone from the cabal to place me on moderation. More comments below for your entertainment: On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Achal Prabhala aprabh...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings, I'm happy to tell you a little more about myself and the scope of this short-term research project I'm undertaking, and I'm as happy to assume that you fully intended for your messages to come across as decorous and rational. Believe me if my intention was to be anything less that decorous or rational, you wouldn't have had to assume anything. I've been on the Advisory Board of the Wikimedia Foundation for some time now, and there have been large periods where I've done nothing, and many periods when I've done a lot. This, I suspect, is the case for many fellow Advisory Board members; overall, I can say for myself that it's been a rewarding and interesting experience. I'm involved in various aspects of the Wikimedia movement - from helping to organise communities in India and South Africa to looking at broader, more global questions around the work of the Chapters Committee and the possibility of other kinds of affiliation that might usefully exist within our world. All of this work, as it should be, is completely open and transparent, and is in no way forced or mandated. So it was a ceremonial position as we thought and you have gotten more involved of recent. The scope however of your involvement seems to be ever expanding- India and Africa, the chapters and possibly other kinds of affiliation that might usefully exist within our world. Yes, your work has been open and transparent, like how and when you were appointed, what exactly you do and when does your supposed term end, if ever. I think this thread has more information about you than any profile I have read so far. Funnily enough, I wasn't very involved with the strategic 5-year plan; I started off trying to look at what community members from India might want to do, but the exercise didn't get very far, and I sort of gave up in between. I'm glad it went forward with the help of a whole lot of others from India, and I'm glad it exists, but I haven't even read what it says yet. So I'm forced to confess (like Shaw almost said) that reports of my influence are greatly exaggerated. I am, however, involved on a daily basis with all kinds of work that is related to the movement, and I'm delighted to be of use to you. Exactly as we thought, you haven't been involved with Wikimedia policy work. The claims above are in direct conflict with the statements earlier, either reports of my influence are greatly exaggerated or you're involved on a daily basis with all kinds of work that is related to the movement. Second, I don't think Shaw ever
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:23 PM, MZMcBridez...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Hi. As Daniel noted in his earlier e-mail to the list, Achal Prabhala is now a Wikimedia Fellow.[1] I actually missed this announcement as it didn't hit wikimediaannounce-l or this list (foundation-l), it apparently only got posted to the blog, but that's not really here nor there. There have been rumblings about some of the surrounding circumstances that I think warrant consideration and discussion. Achal is a member of the Advisory Board[2] but isn't very active in wikis/open source. A few questions pop up in my head. Is there a concern about such an individual being a Wikimedia Fellow? That is, someone who's not particularly attached to wikis/open source? All of the other Wikimedia Fellows have fairly strong editing backgrounds. The edits by Achal seem to be rather sparse: http://toolserver.org/~vvv/sulutil.php?user=Aprabhala More importantly, is there a concern about an Advisory Board member being chosen as a Wikimedia Fellow? Is there a conflict of interest there? Is there a concern about the appearance of impropriety? Hello I really fail to see how being an advisory board member could in any sense create a conflict of interest. As the term very well describes it, advisory board members are merely advisors not decision makers. Just as *any* community member is also an advisor to the Wikimedia Foundation staff. Incidently, the advisory board has been originally created so that we could create links with people who were NOT editors, but had things we (the board at that time) thought they could share with us, and help us on the difficult path of bringing the Foundation to a professional, efficient, helpful model. It is a side effect that now past board members who happened to be involved in the community are also part of the advisory board. Originally, none of the members were community members. We (and we actually included the community; the community was involved in building the advisory board, on this very list, on meta and through a special committee) looked together for people with various expertise BEYOND our own wiki world. People with expertise in legal issues, financial issues, business, education, politics and so on. That was *exactly* the goal of this advisory board. Making sure that we would not be merely relying on our own community, but would actually learn from others and welcome comments, suggestions, help. Look beyond our own wiki world. Expand ! Within the original advisory board, Achal has probably been the most active in the past years. He definitly joined the conversation. I find it really odd to read now that being on the advisory board might actually be a disadvantage and that being a community member would be considered more important than being bright, involved, funny, good looking (yea), entrepreneur and so on. Achal has a growing influence on Wikimedia, particularly its new operations in India. This has included being part of the hiring decisions, etc. This is more of a consultant role, making his selection as a Wikimedia Fellow even stranger. And his growing influence and power in such a big part of Wikimedia's five-year strategy is making people wary. I think conversation and engagement (on this list and elsewhere) would be very good in a number of ways. MZMcBride [1] http://blog.wikimedia.org/?p=2748 [2] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Advisory_Board On 1/20/11 9:46 AM, whothis wrote: I agree with what he said. After looking him up, the only qualification I can find of this person is that he's on the advisory board, No idea, how he got there and for how long is his term, makes me think that maybe there is a Cabal. Most places mirror his description on the Advisory Board page. I am tired of seeing the same names, doing the rounds over and over again, from groups to committees to fellowships to whatever that comes next. Will anyone else from the Advisory board or maybe even the board, past or present members included, going to receive a fellowship now? LOL Long time since I saw such a perfect example of fallacious argument. Thank you for the laugh :) Anthere ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
Nathan, I understand you don't know me, but can''t you see he is exactly the same as me, an anonymous and uncounted associate, who is as much a shareholder, auditor as I am. The only difference is I don't lead the Movement, I supposedly am lead by anonymous unknowns like him. E. On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 12:36 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Achal Prabhala wrote: In all these capacities and more. 33 That's the spirit. And I've always felt that a waste is a terrible thing to mind. 81 [links shortened] http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=2284834#India_planning http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=2284834#India_planning First link: 231 Second link: 285 Settle down, my friend...going around in circles will make us all dizzy. 72 Personally, I recommend half an hour of Pranayama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama) every morning: it makes one feel calm and loving. 140! Your commitment to openness and transparency is ready to be transferred to a Twitter account. You'll have to work with Erik to make all of his openness and transparency fit. (In all seriousness, thank you, Erik, for the reports.) I don't know why anyone would be interested (in more than 500 characters) about one of the biggest portions of Wikimedia's five-year plan (which you didn't help write, I get it!). But your snide answers to legitimate questions only serves to highlight the exact problems and concerns that most people have been quietly observing in you. Good work. MZMcBride Honestly, I don't see how you could expect a better set of answers given your approach. You're not a prosecutor, and you have no right to interrogate him about whatever improprieties you and your supposedly like-minded (but anonymous and uncounted) associates perceive. You're also not a shareholder, an auditor, or in any other fashion entitled to receive polite replies to snide implications of corruption. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
David Gerard wrote: You started in attack mode and continued in attack mode. This is not a good way to get anyone to bother talking to you. I made an effort to not start in attack mode, as it were. I asked questions and hoped that out of all the noise that would come in the replies, there might be a few responses. And there have been one or two responses, but the major questions remain unanswered. No-one is in fact obliged to respond to you on foundation-l, indeed many WMF employees and WMF and chapter volunteers don't read it, referring instead to it as troll-l. It would be nice if this weren't the case. Completely agreed. Does that mean that nobody should use foundation-l as a venue to ask Wikimedia Foundation-related questions? Do you have an alternate venue that would be better? If people working for Wikimedia don't read this list, it's to their detriment, in my opinion. But it's not as though it's ever going to be mandatory reading. Approaches such as yours, which merely makes you look like you're out for a fight, are why. Please reconsider. I'm really not out for a fight, not being a person looking for a job at Wikimedia in India. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I do try my best to express the concerns of others and myself, particularly when others feel that they do have something to lose by interjecting themselves. You (David) seem to biting around the edges here, but looking past the nobility of Achal's research project or my tone, there might be more serious issues to address and examine here. MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
Nathan wrote: Honestly, I don't see how you could expect a better set of answers given your approach. You're not a prosecutor, and you have no right to interrogate him about whatever improprieties you and your supposedly like-minded (but anonymous and uncounted) associates perceive. You're also not a shareholder, an auditor, or in any other fashion entitled to receive polite replies to snide implications of corruption. You're perfectly correct. Or at least what you write sounds good. I can only ask questions and hope that they get answered (I said this in some reply of mine). If they're not answered, oh well. At least the questions are out there. In this case, Achal's responses seem to have highlighted some of the concerns that people are having (I also said this in some reply of mine). You, like David, seem to be focusing more on my tone (or perceived tone) than the underlying questions being asked, but perhaps that's a predictable (albeit unfortunate) response. MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
2011/1/20 whothis whoth...@gmail.com: I hope others reading this realize the implication of your appointment. I had no idea who you were before this, and still don't I had no idea who you were before this. Then I checked my mail archives and saw that the only other thread you've been engaged in was a different set of accusations about the existence of a cabal and the impropriety thereof. This is not a constructive conversation, because it confuses and conflates a bunch of very complex issues (questions of NPO governance and ethics, which you clearly have a very limited understanding of, vs. questions of effective and transparent operations, vs. community participation, etc.), and has from the beginning taken the tone of prosecutorial questioning. If you're interested in having a constructive conversation e.g. about the grants process and the fellowships program without attacking individuals, I'll be happy to join it, here or on Meta. -- Erik Möller Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Wired on the Spanish mutiny
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-01/20/wikipedia-spanish-fork?page=1 Interesting. This article could be titled Spanish Fork: In which Edgar Enyedy made Wikipedia what it is today. Who knew his unilateral decision to take things out of context and proportion was the crucial determining factor in the future of the English Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation? On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 12:35 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 January 2011 17:24, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: I do think that the early history of WP is quite a good example of why we need historians, not just more self-serving memoirs. Even then I doubt we'll fully understand why things turned out the way they did. I must say, I found it made things a lot clearer to see that it was Larry Sanger. Who, in his 2011 reply, insisted advertising was the right idea *even though it made an entire language community get up and leave*. Such community management skills are truly remarkable. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Your donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia Foundation today: http://www.wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
But why are you working with this small start-up that 1) is 100% commercial and 2) shows ads that are inapropriate for Wikipedia? Is that the philosophy of the free and neutral encyclopedia? Why don't you replace this with the Internet Archive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Archive) which is a well known non profit organization? Le 21 janvier 2011 18:43, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com a écrit : Bonjour François En fait, wikiwix n'est pas un site miroir de Wikipedia (une copie). C'est un peu plus compliqué. Le lien sur lequel vous avez cliqué fait partie des liens de références (c'est à dire des liens menant vers des sites web externes, qui sont utilisés comme sources de l'article). Par exemple, ce lien est une source externe: http://www.t4cdev.com/ Ce qui se produit est que les pages web parfois utilisées comme sources disparaissent. Soient que de gratuites, elles passent en version payantes avec code d'accès. Soient que le site hébergeur les déplacent (change leur url). Soient qu'elles soient tout simplement otées du site source. C'est évidemment ennuyeux pour nos articles car une information source devient alors inaccessible. Ce que fournit le système wikiwix (qui est en effet indépendant de Wikipedia) est un système d'archivage des pages web sources. Wikiwix copie la page et l'archive. Si la page vient à disparaitre ou devenir inaccessible, la version originale est toujours accessible via le système d'archivage wikiwix. Ainsi, par rapport au lien susmentionné, la version archivée est accessible ici: http://wikiwix.com/cache/?url=http://www.t4cdev.com/title=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t4cdev.com%2F Donc, je récapitule... Votre nièce est sur Wikipedia (sans publicité) Elle clique sur un lien externe (lien vers un site externe à Wikipedia, utilisé comme source dans l'article), dans son état archivé (par une société indépendante de Wikipedia). Cette société d'archivage se rémunère par le biais de publicité. Et c'est depuis le site de cette société que votre nièce est tombée sur de la publicité pour un site pour adulte. Merci Florence On 1/21/11 5:58 PM, F.-F. Duron wrote: Bonjour, J'espère m'adresser au bon endroit. Aujourd'hui, ma nièce m'a appelé à l'ordinateur en me disant que Wikipédia faisait de la publicité pour un site pour adultes. Je lui ai dit que Wikipédia n'affichait pas de publicité. Elle a insisté et voilà ce que j'ai découvert : http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg C'était sur ce lien : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Pourquoi ces liens publicitaires ? Je suis vraiment très étonné. François P.S. Je ne sais pas si je dois écrire en anglais. Est-ce que quelqu'un peut traduire mon message ? Merci. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
No, it's not a mirror site. This french start-up is making all its business with Wikipedia. This company has a cache system and some kind of search engine that are both integrated by default in the french Wikipedia. I don't know if other Wikipedias use it. Try doing a search on the word sex in Wikipedia fr ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recherche ) with the option Wikiwix. You will see ads related to porn sites, escort girl sites (!!), viagra Well, it's certainly a good deal for this start-up... But how is that possible?? Such partnership is simply... unbelievable. Le 21 janvier 2011 18:24, Marco Chiesa chiesa.ma...@gmail.com a écrit : On 1/21/11, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: Bonjour, J'espère m'adresser au bon endroit. Aujourd'hui, ma nièce m'a appelé à l'ordinateur en me disant que Wikipédia faisait de la publicité pour un site pour adultes. Je lui ai dit que Wikipédia n'affichait pas de publicité. Elle a insisté et voilà ce que j'ai découvert : http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5869/wikipediasocietewikiwix.jpg C'était sur ce lien : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Quatri%C3%A8me_Proph%C3%A9tie Pourquoi ces liens publicitaires ? Je suis vraiment très étonné. Sorry I cannot speak French. The screenshot you put is from a website called wikiwix.com which has nothing to do with Wikipedia or the Wikimedia Foundation, they only redistribute the content. Wikipedia cannot control what kind of advertising third party website uses together with its articles. Cruccone ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: No, it's not a mirror site. This french start-up is making all its business with Wikipedia. This company has a cache system and some kind of search engine that are both integrated by default in the french Wikipedia. I don't know if other Wikipedias use it. Try doing a search on the word sex in Wikipedia fr ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recherche ) with the option Wikiwix. You will see ads related to porn sites, escort girl sites (!!), viagra Well, it's certainly a good deal for this start-up... But how is that possible?? Such partnership is simply... unbelievable. I performed the search you suggested (here is the link: http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=0search=sex+wikiwixfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=mediawikins0=1) and did not find any advertisements. Perhaps you are mistaken? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
Ah, I think I misunderstood. Wikiwix is integrated as a search engine in the French Special:Search function. If you use the Wikiwix search option, it redirects you to an external site (http://fr.wikiwix.com/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=0action=sexfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=wikiwixns0=1 as an example), and this site returns results both for Wikipedia pages and for other external sites. In the example above, the external sites are for an Android phone and a Belgian escort service. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
I did what he ask: http://fr.wikiwix.com/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=1action=sexfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=wikiwixns0=1 But note that now you are not anymore in french wikipedia, but in Wikiwix. And we can't control what they put on their site. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/1/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: No, it's not a mirror site. This french start-up is making all its business with Wikipedia. This company has a cache system and some kind of search engine that are both integrated by default in the french Wikipedia. I don't know if other Wikipedias use it. Try doing a search on the word sex in Wikipedia fr ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recherche ) with the option Wikiwix. You will see ads related to porn sites, escort girl sites (!!), viagra Well, it's certainly a good deal for this start-up... But how is that possible?? Such partnership is simply... unbelievable. I performed the search you suggested (here is the link: http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=0search=sex+wikiwixfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=mediawikins0=1 ) and did not find any advertisements. Perhaps you are mistaken? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
Yes, but maybe you can control the partnerships you're making! Wikipedia is one of the most visited websites in the world. Don't you think there is a problem here?? 2011/1/21 Béria Lima y1030...@mail.aesbuc.pt I did what he ask: http://fr.wikiwix.com/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=1action=sexfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=wikiwixns0=1 But note that now you are not anymore in french wikipedia, but in Wikiwix. And we can't control what they put on their site. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/1/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: No, it's not a mirror site. This french start-up is making all its business with Wikipedia. This company has a cache system and some kind of search engine that are both integrated by default in the french Wikipedia. I don't know if other Wikipedias use it. Try doing a search on the word sex in Wikipedia fr ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recherche ) with the option Wikiwix. You will see ads related to porn sites, escort girl sites (!!), viagra Well, it's certainly a good deal for this start-up... But how is that possible?? Such partnership is simply... unbelievable. I performed the search you suggested (here is the link: http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=0search=sex+wikiwixfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=mediawikins0=1 ) and did not find any advertisements. Perhaps you are mistaken? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
On 21 January 2011 20:07, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but maybe you can control the partnerships you're making! Wikipedia is one of the most visited websites in the world. Don't you think there is a problem here?? Do we have a partnership with them? The French Wikipedia apparently links to their search results, but that doesn't constitute a partnership. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
I see the ads. And I don't see the value added provided by Wikiwix, which puts them on equal footing with Google or Bing. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
There are no such thing as a partnership whit Wikiwix (or Google, Exalead, Bing and Yahoo). They are there only to improve the results of a search in case you don't find anything in Wikipedia. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/1/21 F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com Yes, but maybe you can control the partnerships you're making! Wikipedia is one of the most visited websites in the world. Don't you think there is a problem here?? 2011/1/21 Béria Lima y1030...@mail.aesbuc.pt I did what he ask: http://fr.wikiwix.com/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=1action=sexfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=wikiwixns0=1 But note that now you are not anymore in french wikipedia, but in Wikiwix. And we can't control what they put on their site. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/1/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: No, it's not a mirror site. This french start-up is making all its business with Wikipedia. This company has a cache system and some kind of search engine that are both integrated by default in the french Wikipedia. I don't know if other Wikipedias use it. Try doing a search on the word sex in Wikipedia fr ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recherche ) with the option Wikiwix. You will see ads related to porn sites, escort girl sites (!!), viagra Well, it's certainly a good deal for this start-up... But how is that possible?? Such partnership is simply... unbelievable. I performed the search you suggested (here is the link: http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=0search=sex+wikiwixfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=mediawikins0=1 ) and did not find any advertisements. Perhaps you are mistaken? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
The integration of this search engine into wikipedia (which seems to be a very lucrative deal for this company) is just one of the problems. The ads that I've mentioned are unacceptable (escort girl = prostitution). I will never see such kind of ads on Google. And there is a big difference between Google, Bing and this company. The two first major companies are sending you the majority of your trafic. This little company is only making business by monetizing the trafic that Wikipedia send to them. The second problem is the cache system. I don't understand why the French Wikipedia is using their commercial cache system instead of the Internet Archive which 1) is a well known non profit organization and 2) has been advocating for free content for a long time and 3) doesn't show ads at all. 2011/1/21 Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com There are no such thing as a partnership whit Wikiwix (or Google, Exalead, Bing and Yahoo). They are there only to improve the results of a search in case you don't find anything in Wikipedia. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/1/21 F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com Yes, but maybe you can control the partnerships you're making! Wikipedia is one of the most visited websites in the world. Don't you think there is a problem here?? 2011/1/21 Béria Lima y1030...@mail.aesbuc.pt I did what he ask: http://fr.wikiwix.com/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=1action=sexfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=wikiwixns0=1 But note that now you are not anymore in french wikipedia, but in Wikiwix. And we can't control what they put on their site. _ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 963 953 042 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.* 2011/1/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM, F.-F. Duron ff.du...@gmail.com wrote: No, it's not a mirror site. This french start-up is making all its business with Wikipedia. This company has a cache system and some kind of search engine that are both integrated by default in the french Wikipedia. I don't know if other Wikipedias use it. Try doing a search on the word sex in Wikipedia fr ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recherche ) with the option Wikiwix. You will see ads related to porn sites, escort girl sites (!!), viagra Well, it's certainly a good deal for this start-up... But how is that possible?? Such partnership is simply... unbelievable. I performed the search you suggested (here is the link: http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3ARechercheredirs=0search=sex+wikiwixfulltext=Searchsearchengineselect=mediawikins0=1 ) and did not find any advertisements. Perhaps you are mistaken? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
Birgitte SB wrote: This isn't the first time someone who perceived your tone negatively has written about it seeking a remedy. Perhaps the fault is not with David's nor Nathan's perception skills. Perhaps you might find more success if you change your approach in the following ways. 1) Don't ask questions you already know the answer to. It seems as if you expect people to lie and is perceived as both insulting and insincere. There's a difference between knowing the answer and thinking I know the answer. It's generally better not to assume and to instead ask questions, in my opinion. I could've easily formed an opinion about Achal's Wikimedia-related work in India without ever having posted to this list (or spoken to him), but I don't think that'd be a fair (or necessarily accurate) assessment. Asking questions allows me to gain information and insight (in theory, anyway). 2) Do state what your concerns are point-blank. Are you concerned WMF fellowships are too numerous or too generous? Are you concerned that Foo who is better qualified was not given the fellowship instead? Do you have a grievance with this particular fellow or some work he has done in the past? Are you concerned that the work being done as part of the fellowship is not useful? Or do do you think the fellowship itself turned out decently, but are concerned that your input was not solicited when it was in the proposal stage? After reading all your questions which seem to assume some general knowledge that I don't have (i.e. what people have been saying), I haven't a clue what your concern actually is. I've tried both approaches. Being direct generally comes across as rude. Being leading or making casual suggestions generally comes across as ... indirect and rude. It seems like a no-win situation from where I'm sitting. I'm asking questions about people's motives and actions; people generally don't like that, even ones who say they like openness and transparency. As Nathan and others have said, nobody is obligated to answer my questions (or even read my posts). But when there are questions that I think need to be raised that aren't being raised, I'll take the time to write something coherent. With all due respect, you not understanding the questions I'm asking doesn't particularly concern me. The questions weren't directed toward you and I wasn't seeking your input, so it's natural for you not to really know what I'm talking about or understand my concerns. I don't mean that in any rude way, I really don't. Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate it. MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On 21 January 2011 21:11, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: To try to answer your concern, somewhat, as I understand it, rather than just tut at your tone (which is of course an annoying thing to do): The Advisory Board is basically specialist volunteers who’ve signed up to be bothered about stuff if the board wants help with something. It’s not a “board” with actual power, like the Board of Trustees. So as a staff member, it’s now his job to be bothered about stuff instead of volunteering to be bothered about stuff, so his staff duties are pretty much a superset of his volunteer ones :-) As such, it's not something I can see a conflict of interest in - there's no power being exercised in the Advisory Board role to corrupt; no streams to cross. I speak only as a long-term en:wp, WMF and WMUK volunteer, not authoritatively as staff of anyone in any way. Others could probably clarify. Speaking as an en:wp volunteer: if he can make a start on cracking the horrible problem of what to do with important oral knowledge in written encyclopedias, I think that could be one of the hugest innovations yet seen in the quest to sum human knowledge. This is REALLY IMPORTANT STUFF, and IMO an excellent and on-mission thing for WMF to spend money on. Whether he's the ideal person for the job is a matter for WMF, and although WMF's hiring has not necessarily been perfect in the past I think it's generally worked out pretty well. We have a lot of WMF employees who are former volunteers in one capacity or another, and who got recruited to staff by becoming known for their volunteer work. The Fellows are pretty much volunteers who are now being paid to do whatever valuable thing they were doing as volunteers. As I said, if my understanding is amiss, I'm sure others will clarify. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:56 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: 2011/1/20 whothis whoth...@gmail.com: I hope others reading this realize the implication of your appointment. I had no idea who you were before this, and still don't I had no idea who you were before this. Then I checked my mail archives and saw that the only other thread you've been engaged in was a different set of accusations about the existence of a cabal and the impropriety thereof. Thats a fair assessment, let me first say that I respect your opinion to a certain degree Erik. But as an unknown poster on this list, I have the exact same qualification as Mr. Prabhala does, perhaps even more, the only difference is I am not on the Advisory Board. Second, Let me refresh your memory I posted on a thread a while ago, complaining about the Movement roles steering committee, composed of 5 people from the chapter committee, a board member and an employee. I made a comment in passing that add Achal or Florence to the mix and you have the Advisory Board Cabal. Maybe I was the only one who saw a pattern. This is not a constructive conversation, because it confuses and conflates a bunch of very complex issues (questions of NPO governance and ethics, which you clearly have a very limited understanding of, vs. questions of effective and transparent operations, vs. community participation, etc.), and has from the beginning taken the tone of prosecutorial questioning. If you're interested in having a constructive conversation e.g. about the grants process and the fellowships program without attacking individuals, I'll be happy to join it, here or on Meta. Clearly, without even knowing who I am, you can easily write me off as someone with a very limited understanding of NPO governance and ethics. That is one thing you are apparently sure about in all of this, I would say something about your own Hubris but I think that's just the way it is. Anyway, I didn't raise the questions, the other person did, I made the point about a possible appearance of impropriety and was planning on fading away until the jibe about Pranayama and the patronizing tone. I don't care for his grant or fellowship, he might as well be researching farts for all I care, researchers and consultants come and go, but Advisory Board members they are forever. I unfortunately, have a life to live and bills to pay instead of engaging in a constructive and drawn-out conversation, we can't all be lifetime appointed Advisory Board members. Apologies if it got too personal, I took offense to one of the statements earlier and had to resort to polemics. Kind Regards Elizabeth ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
A few things to add to this thread: 1. Achal has been a very helpful advisor (among several) to me as I've launched WMF's work in India. In addition, he has been helpful in the formation of the chapter in India, the chapter formation process in South Africa and has shared some perspectives with ChapCom, where he was invited to advise them by the committee. He has done so as a volunteer who has dedicated valuable time (like all contributors to the movement) to support our collective goals in India and around the world. He has not received nor expected any special power or remuneration for this help. I, personally, have found him to be an excellent advisor and not someone who expects anything in return. As it relates to hiring in India, I invited him to advise me (along with Bishakha) because I have come to value his perspectives on the merits. We were clear that the role was advisory and while I took some of his advice, we differed on some questions. Note: WMF staff other than myself also interview candidates and ultimately the decision is made based on the recommendation of the hiring manager with Sue's approval (she meets all candidates). 2. I would not characterize the Fellowship as a staff position. Achal proposed a very specific project for which he was provided a grant. He is responsible for the successful completion of the task and will not have other responsibilities or privileges associated with employment. This is why it was handled like a grant, as the same expectations for carrying out the proposed activities rest on all grantees - whether an individual, chapter or other group. We evaluated the grant based on the potential for contribution to the movement. 3. There is room for improvement in our processes at WMF as Erik suggests earlier. For one, we have used the title of Fellowship for different types of activities e.g., hiring someone on a contract for general staff-like purposes, providing a grant to someone for a specific activity. We should figure out how to distinguish between these (and other roles) more clearly. In addition, I am planning on introducing a community input mechanism into the grant process for 2011/12. We have piloted grantmaking over the past two years and I think it is a valuable tool for the community to secure funding for work that requires money. It will be valuable to have input from the community on grants before we make decisions on them. This will improve the quality of grantmaking across the board - expect to hear more about this in the coming weeks. Thanks, Barry P.S. Sorry if I don't respond to follow up questions quickly, I'm actually on vacation ;) On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:11 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Birgitte SB wrote: This isn't the first time someone who perceived your tone negatively has written about it seeking a remedy. Perhaps the fault is not with David's nor Nathan's perception skills. Perhaps you might find more success if you change your approach in the following ways. 1) Don't ask questions you already know the answer to. It seems as if you expect people to lie and is perceived as both insulting and insincere. There's a difference between knowing the answer and thinking I know the answer. It's generally better not to assume and to instead ask questions, in my opinion. I could've easily formed an opinion about Achal's Wikimedia-related work in India without ever having posted to this list (or spoken to him), but I don't think that'd be a fair (or necessarily accurate) assessment. Asking questions allows me to gain information and insight (in theory, anyway). 2) Do state what your concerns are point-blank. Are you concerned WMF fellowships are too numerous or too generous? Are you concerned that Foo who is better qualified was not given the fellowship instead? Do you have a grievance with this particular fellow or some work he has done in the past? Are you concerned that the work being done as part of the fellowship is not useful? Or do do you think the fellowship itself turned out decently, but are concerned that your input was not solicited when it was in the proposal stage? After reading all your questions which seem to assume some general knowledge that I don't have (i.e. what people have been saying), I haven't a clue what your concern actually is. I've tried both approaches. Being direct generally comes across as rude. Being leading or making casual suggestions generally comes across as ... indirect and rude. It seems like a no-win situation from where I'm sitting. I'm asking questions about people's motives and actions; people generally don't like that, even ones who say they like openness and transparency. As Nathan and others have said, nobody is obligated to answer my questions (or even read my posts). But when there are questions that I think need to be raised that aren't being raised, I'll take the time to write something coherent.
Re: [Foundation-l] Advertising on Wikipedia
Le 21 janvier 2011 23:06, Ashar Voultoiz hashar+...@free.frhashar%2b...@free.fr a écrit : Il y a des outils permettant de filtrer les contenus gênants (POV) pour les enfants / ados. Je ne connais que FreeAngel de Free : http://www.free.fr/adsl/pages/informations-legales/protection-de-l-enfance/free-angel.html Concernant ton cas précis, je pense que le plus simple est de contacter l'auteur de Wikiwix pour qu'il restreigne les catégories de publicité affichées et/ou change de régie publicitaire. Ca ressemble surtout à un coup de mal chance vu que tu as eu: wikipedia - wikiwix - site de foot - pub sexy :) -- Ashar Voultoiz 1. Wikiwix's adds are not likely to be that profitable, given the popularity of the website. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wikiwix.com 2. Wikiwix uses normal google ads, which can be filtered on your computer. Wikiwix ads surely needs to be improved, given the problem you raised about explicit ads. Florence Devouard has forwarded these mails to Wikiwix's author. 3. At the french Wikipedia, we are also using Internet Archive, when possible. But its use is very impractical. Internet Archive makes backups of the Internet irregularely and very rarely (every 6 months, or sometimes once a year...). An incredible amount of websites are missing in Internet Archive. Most of the archived websites have missing content, broken layout, etc. Wikiwix archive on the contrary is dedicated to Wikipedia, and fits our needs as a web archive. Yours, Rodan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On 21 January 2011 05:59, CherianTinu Abraham tinucher...@gmail.com wrote: Knowledge in olden times of India are transferred orally from Gurus ( Teachers) to students/disciples . They are not necessarily recorded. We are talking about the ages even before manuscripts paper are invented. Paper has been around for 1800 years. The odds of orally transmitted information remaining accurate over that kind of time period are limited. In any case the who Guru thing has taken a bit of a hammering lately from the likes of Sanal Edamaruku and Basava Premanand. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
Come on friend, History of India and many other civilizations of world started thousands of years even before that. As somebody already said earlier, It is not something that everyone can easily comprehend.. Every knowledge is NOT on the internet and Google searchable :) Sorry, No pun intended. Regards Tinu Cherian On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 6:59 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 January 2011 05:59, CherianTinu Abraham tinucher...@gmail.com wrote: Knowledge in olden times of India are transferred orally from Gurus ( Teachers) to students/disciples . They are not necessarily recorded. We are talking about the ages even before manuscripts paper are invented. Paper has been around for 1800 years. The odds of orally transmitted information remaining accurate over that kind of time period are limited. In any case the who Guru thing has taken a bit of a hammering lately from the likes of Sanal Edamaruku and Basava Premanand. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Questions about new Fellow
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:21 PM, whothis whoth...@gmail.com wrote: I assume you probably had some say in selecting the current Board Member from India since you announced his appointment Even though this is tangential to the main discussion, let me explain the process through which I was appointed to the Board of Trustees in March 2010. As I understand it, several names were given to the board committee dealing with this appointment, including mine. I then went through the following six interviews in this order: 1)Headhunter/recruitment firm from San Francisco (phone - I live in India) 2)Michael Snow, then WMF board chair (in person in SF) 3)Kat Walsh, WMF board member (in person) 4)Stu West, WMF board member (in person) 5)Sue Gardner, ED, WMF (in person) 6)Jimmy Wales, board member (Skype) I was then offered a position on the board. Achal did not announce my appointment on the Foundation list, Michael Snow did. (Also, I'm a woman: 'her' appointment) Achal mentored me into the India part of the role, introducing me to the community via the India list and offlist, and the chapter board via a separate list - and did some serious handholding in the first three months. I am truly grateful for that - it helped me find my feet much more quickly than I would have had I been trying to fit the pieces together on my own. Best Bishakha ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
