Re: [Foundation-l] Languages and numbers

2011-06-27 Thread Milos Rancic 
On 06/27/2011 12:30 AM, M. Williamson wrote:
> Some of these actually already have Wikipedias:
> 
> Meadow Mari
> Yakut (aka Sakha)
> Lak
> Balkar (aka Karachay-Balkar)
> Yiddish, Eastern (= "standard" Yiddish, "Western Yiddish" is the one we are
> missing but it has much fewer speakers; according to Ethnologue there are
> only 5,400 around the world)
> 
> In addition, in another message you stated that we probably had Wikipedias
> in every Sinitic language that was distinct enough from Mandarin to receive
> an own Wikipedia; Min Bei has 10.3 million speakers and does not have a
> Wikipedia and is definitely far removed from Mandarin; Xiang is also
> probably deserving of its own Wikipedia and has 30 million+ speakers.

Thanks for the corrections!

As for Han languages, because of the languages which you mentioned, I
intentionally left all of them. Obviously, they will be analyzed on
case-by-case basis.

But, Han languages are not endangered, China is fairly developed
country, their basic written language needs are covered by CJK
characters and fonts etc. If they want to have Wikipedia, it is likely
that they would get it, but it is not priority.

If we are talking about languages of China, Hmong–Mien (or Miao–Yao)
languages, for example, should be more in focus, as some of them have
enough speakers to create viable Wikimedia projects if supported
(Chuanqiandian Cluster Miao has 1.4M of speakers).

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Re: [Foundation-l] Closing projects policy now official

2011-06-27 Thread Ting Chen 
Hello dear all,

on the August 2010 board meeting the board had talked about the 
responsibilities of the board, the staff and the committees (minutes 
here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/July_8,_2010 ). The 
board had worked through this with the RASCI matrix 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matrix ). We had 
decided that the creation and closing of projects are responsibilities 
of the LangCom, the board should be informed about its decision. We 
believe that the LangCom has the knowledge and the professionism in 
issuing the correct policies, as it had showed in the past. When the 
LangCom came up with its new closing project policy proposal the board 
discussed it and thought that the policy is good. I therefore informed 
the LangCom that the board has no objection on this policy. There is no 
need for the board to issue a resolution on this.

Greetings
Ting

On 25.06.2011 11:20, wrote Milos Rancic:
> Board has decided to make Closing projects [1] official. The text of the
> policy is below (as well as at the mentioned page).
>
> Language committee members who decided to take care about this would be
> listed inside of the section "Tasks" of the members list [2]. During the
> next weeks present requests will be normalized after the discussion at
> the LangCom list.
>
> [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Closing_projects_policy
> [2] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee/Members
>
> * * *
>
> This policy proposal defines the process to close (and in some
> situations delete) a wiki hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation. The
> proposals are handled by [[Language Committee]] members who opt-in to
> take care of this, and the [[Board of Trustees]] has final authority
> over the member's decision.
>
> ==Problem situation and new authority==
> The current [[Proposals for closing projects]] lack a clear policy.
> Several proposals have been made for a policy, but so far none has been
> adopted.
>
> Because of that, a lot of small inactive wikis are proposed to be
> closed. Some people support out of principle ("wiki is inactive"), while
> others oppose out of principle ("let it grow"). Often, users came by and
> made a decision, which could even be the opposite of the actual consensus.
>
> This policy tries to address this problem by:
> * requiring a valid reason for closure, and defining several reasons as
> either valid or invalid reasons
> * putting the procedure in hands of language committee members and final
> Board decision
>
> The community has no longer authority over closing projects, but only an
> advising task. This puts the procedure in line with the [[language
> proposal policy]], which is also dependent on language committee and
> Board approval. That means closing projects is no longer easier than
> opening one.
>
> Although the decision is made by a member of the Language Committee and
> no longer through community consensus, the Board will have final
> authority, and the LangCom is convinced that this procedure will improve
> the decision-making and that both the LangCom and the Board are the
> appropriate authority for dealing with closing Wikimedia wikis.
>
> ==Policy proposal==
>
> ===Types of proposals===
> In order to distinguish routine situations from potentially more complex
> or unusual ones, projects that are proposed to be deleted are classified
> as one of two types:
> # Regular language editions that are small/inactive but do not generally
> harm to stay open (automatic spam is always blocked, contrary to the past).
> #: ''For example: Afar Wiktionary, Gaeilge Wikiquote, Guarani Wikibooks,
> ...''
> # Other (often relatively more active) wikis that may be controversial,
> questionable or in another way uncommon.
> #: ''For example: Quality Wikimedia, Simple English Wikiquote, ...''
>
> ===Definition of actions===
> * Closing a wiki means locking the database so it cannot be edited but
> all pages are still visible to public. User rights (sysop, ...) are
> removed and can be restored on user request when the wiki is re-activated.
> * Deleting a wiki means deleting the database so it is completely
> unavailable on the web. An XML file with the wiki's content will still
> be available for external use.
> * Transferring or importing content means moving useful articles/pages,
> along with the contribution history, to the [[Wikimedia Incubator]],
> [[oldwikisource:|OldWikisource]] or [[betawikiversity:|BetaWikiversity]]
> (or another site when explicitly mentioned).See
> [[incubator:I:Importing]] for more info.
> ** Files are left on the wiki because of a lack of an export function.
> When the wiki will be deleted, files could be downloaded manually if
> needed.When such a software feature becomes available, files
> should be exported.
>
> ===Proposing===
> Anyone can propose to close a wiki. The following must be done:
> * The proposal must be categorised under either type 1 or type 2 (see
> above).
> * If you want the wiki to be delete

Re: [Foundation-l] Closing projects policy now official

2011-06-27 Thread Milos Rancic 
On 06/27/2011 11:39 AM, Ting Chen wrote:
> on the August 2010 board meeting the board had talked about the 
> responsibilities of the board, the staff and the committees (minutes 
> here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/July_8,_2010 ). The 
> board had worked through this with the RASCI matrix 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matrix ). We had 
> decided that the creation and closing of projects are responsibilities 
> of the LangCom, the board should be informed about its decision. We 
> believe that the LangCom has the knowledge and the professionism in 
> issuing the correct policies, as it had showed in the past. When the 
> LangCom came up with its new closing project policy proposal the board 
> discussed it and thought that the policy is good. I therefore informed 
> the LangCom that the board has no objection on this policy. There is no 
> need for the board to issue a resolution on this.

Thanks, Ting!

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Re: [Foundation-l] [Wiki-research-l] Wikipedia dumps downloader

2011-06-27 Thread Samuel Klein 
Thank you, Emijrp!

What about the dump of Commons images?   [for those with 10TB to spare]

SJ

On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, emijrp  wrote:
> Hi all;
>
> Can you imagine a day when Wikipedia is added to this list?[1]
>
> WikiTeam have developed a script[2] to download all the Wikipedia dumps (and
> her sister projects) from dumps.wikimedia.org. It sorts in folders and
> checks md5sum. It only works on Linux (it uses wget).
>
> You will need about 100GB to download all the 7z files.
>
> Save our memory.
>
> Regards,
> emijrp
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_libraries
> [2]
> http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/source/browse/trunk/wikipediadownloader.py
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Languages and numbers

2011-06-27 Thread Milos Rancic 
More data could be found at [1]. It is about coverage of languages by
Wikimedia projects by size of population, logarithmic.

Numbers are not a surprise.

[1]
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=tCwO11tFPLPB-SJafDesypg&authkey=CPCE5pMB#gid=1


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Re: [Foundation-l] [Xmldatadumps-l] Wikipedia dumps downloader

2011-06-27 Thread emijrp 
Hi Richard;

Yes, a distributed project would be probably the best solution, but it is
not easy to develop, unless you use a library like bittorrent, or similar
and you have many peers. Althought most of the people don't seed the files
long time, so sometimes is better to depend on a few committed persons than
a big but ephemeral crowd.

Regards,
emijrp

2011/6/26 Richard Farmbrough 

> **
> It would be useful to have  an archive of archives.  I have to delete my
> old data dumps as time passes, for space reasons, however a team could,
> between them, maintain multiple copies of every data dump. This would make a
> nice distributed project.
>
> On 26/06/2011 13:53, emijrp wrote:
>
> Hi all;
>
> Can you imagine a day when Wikipedia is added to this list?[1]
>
> WikiTeam have developed a script[2] to download all the Wikipedia dumps
> (and her sister projects) from dumps.wikimedia.org. It sorts in folders
> and checks md5sum. It only works on Linux (it uses wget).
>
> You will need about 100GB to download all the 7z files.
>
> Save our memory.
>
> Regards,
> emijrp
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_libraries
> [2]
> http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/source/browse/trunk/wikipediadownloader.py
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] [Wiki-research-l] Wikipedia dumps downloader

2011-06-27 Thread emijrp 
Hi SJ;

You know that that is an old item in our TODO list ; )

I heard that Platonides developed a script for that task long time ago.

Platonides, are you there?

Regards,
emijrp

2011/6/27 Samuel Klein 

> Thank you, Emijrp!
>
> What about the dump of Commons images?   [for those with 10TB to spare]
>
> SJ
>
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, emijrp  wrote:
> > Hi all;
> >
> > Can you imagine a day when Wikipedia is added to this list?[1]
> >
> > WikiTeam have developed a script[2] to download all the Wikipedia dumps
> (and
> > her sister projects) from dumps.wikimedia.org. It sorts in folders and
> > checks md5sum. It only works on Linux (it uses wget).
> >
> > You will need about 100GB to download all the 7z files.
> >
> > Save our memory.
> >
> > Regards,
> > emijrp
> >
> > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_libraries
> > [2]
> >
> http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/source/browse/trunk/wikipediadownloader.py
> >
> > ___
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> > wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein  identi.ca:sj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529
> 4266
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] It Is not Us

2011-06-27 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi.
Wikipedia should be more like a social network. It provides us with the
opportunity to reach out to people when we want to crowd source some
activity. We have a problem in retaining people particular newbies. When we
show a social side to our work on open content (not only encyclopaedic
content) we stand a better chance we are likely to do better.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 26 June 2011 18:48, Chris Keating  wrote:

> > Facebook, and Twitter, big with Black folk, gives people something they
> > can relate to. Wikipedia is as dry as reading, or writing, an
> > encyclopedia.
> >
> > In a sense they ate our lunch, but millions of Facebook-like user pages
> > can hardly be justified as a basis for charitable donations.
>
>
> Are you saying Wikipedia should be less like an encyclopedia and more like
> a
> social network?
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Re: [Foundation-l] It Is not Us

2011-06-27 Thread Nathan 
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Gerard Meijssen
 wrote:
> Hoi.
> Wikipedia should be more like a social network. It provides us with the
> opportunity to reach out to people when we want to crowd source some
> activity. We have a problem in retaining people particular newbies. When we
> show a social side to our work on open content (not only encyclopaedic
> content) we stand a better chance we are likely to do better.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM

That's an interesting theory. Wikipedia is sort of the epitome of a
social enterprise, and all of the good and the bad in the project can
be traced to its social nature. Trying to make it more like a "social
network" can only be interpreted as making it more like some other
social network, perhaps by integrating purely social mechanisms a la
Facebook. Of course, that could either help or hinder, with no way to
know for sure in advance; perhaps encouraging more social interaction
would exacerbate and personalize the disputes and conflicts that drive
people away.

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Re: [Foundation-l] It Is not Us

2011-06-27 Thread Peter Gervai 
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 17:43, Gerard Meijssen
 wrote:
> Wikipedia should be more like a social network. It provides us with the

well wikipedia is about to create value for long term - social
networks are about to create worthless things for the moment.

g

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Re: [Foundation-l] [Wiki-research-l] Wikipedia dumps downloader

2011-06-27 Thread Platonides 
emijrp wrote:
> Hi SJ;
>
> You know that that is an old item in our TODO list ; )
>
> I heard that Platonides developed a script for that task long time ago.
>
> Platonides, are you there?
>
> Regards,
> emijrp

Yes, I am. :)


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[Foundation-l] The Signpost – Volume 7, Issue 26 – 27 June 2011

2011-06-27 Thread Wikipedia Signpost 
News and notes: ArbCom database theft; WikiLove to roll out on the
English Wikipedia; brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-06-27/News_and_notes

In the news: Russian president uploads to Wikimedia Commons; brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-06-27/In_the_news

WikiProject report: The Continuous Convention: WikiProject Comics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-06-27/WikiProject_report

Featured content: The best of the week
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-06-27/Featured_content

Arbitration report: Proposed decision for Tree shaping case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-06-27/Arbitration_report

Technology report: Bugs, Repairs, and Internal Operational News
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-06-27/Technology_report



Single page view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signpost/Single


PDF version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-06-27



http://identi.ca/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost

-- 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost

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Re: [Foundation-l] It Is not Us

2011-06-27 Thread Keegan Peterzell 
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Peter Gervai  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 17:43, Gerard Meijssen
>  wrote:
> > Wikipedia should be more like a social network. It provides us with the
>
> well wikipedia is about to create value for long term - social
> networks are about to create worthless things for the moment.
>
> g
>
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+1

As you mentioned earlier, Peter, most things on Facebook are in-the-moment
and do last in any sort of repository of things people want to read for
educational value.  There is some entertainment value in places like
lamebook.com, but that humor generally isn't above the brow (there is some
witty banter, though).

Our talk pages, on the other hand, provide insight in the archives on how
the social dynamics shaped the creation of a product as well as provide
general institutional knowledge.  Wikimedia social networking features such
as talk pages, mailing lists, and IRC channels produce millions of lines of
collaborative work.  This is what makes our system valuable.

-- 
~Keegan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
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Re: [Foundation-l] It Is not Us

2011-06-27 Thread KIZU Naoko 
+1 to Keegan. Different activities attract different thought of
people. Social interactivity of Wikimedia websites and beyond is one
of charms of Wikimedia movement, but it is a beneficial side effect of
the Movement, a necessary consequence of its collaborative production
to gather "the sum of the human knowledge" online for freely access.
Spreading online social network pleasure itself is no mission of
Wikimedia.

Also I'd like to join Thomas's insight statistics should be accurate
if we'd like to use on a basis of analysis. We cannot deduce a
meaningful thought from wrongly combined statistics.

Also on user consuming hours on the Web, I think it too much
hypothetical everyone uses the same amount of time on a given tool,
say, the Internet, which seems to me behind the stats mentioned.

Cheers,

Cheers,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Keegan Peterzell
 wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Peter Gervai  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 17:43, Gerard Meijssen
>>  wrote:
>> > Wikipedia should be more like a social network. It provides us with the
>>
>> well wikipedia is about to create value for long term - social
>> networks are about to create worthless things for the moment.
>>
>> g
>>
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>
> +1
>
> As you mentioned earlier, Peter, most things on Facebook are in-the-moment
> and do last in any sort of repository of things people want to read for
> educational value.  There is some entertainment value in places like
> lamebook.com, but that humor generally isn't above the brow (there is some
> witty banter, though).
>
> Our talk pages, on the other hand, provide insight in the archives on how
> the social dynamics shaped the creation of a product as well as provide
> general institutional knowledge.  Wikimedia social networking features such
> as talk pages, mailing lists, and IRC channels produce millions of lines of
> collaborative work.  This is what makes our system valuable.
>
> --
> ~Keegan
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
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member of Wikimedians in Kansai  / 関西ウィキメディアユーザ会 http://kansai.wikimedia.jp

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