Re: [Foundation-l] Conservapedia announce exciting new linked data project

[Mike Dupont]

happy april first

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Svip  wrote:

> On 1 April 2012 12:25, David Gerard  wrote:
>
> > "America’s most trusted encyclopedia, Conservapedia, have decided to
> > launch a new wiki-based semantic data project named Conservadata. The
> > new project will make right-wing soundbites available in machine
> > readable form."
> >
> > http://blog.tommorris.org/post/20277406012/conservadata
>
> Great!  Now even bullshit will be indexable!
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Murdoch Company Claims Copyright on Wikipedia Video

[Mike Dupont]

Hi there,
If you have size restrictions on commons, use
http://www.archive.org/create/ it has no size restrictions.
thanks,
mike

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 8:38 AM,   wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I wanted to update everyone about our progress in putting up WikiConference 
> India 2011 videos on Youtube. I did not intend to post about this until we 
> had put all the videos online, however the circumstances are such that I 
> thought its best to keep everyone posted.
>
> Yesterday when one of our volunteers was working on the videos and tried to 
> change the licensing of the ones uploaded thus far to CC in the Wikipedia 
> Spirit, he realised that the Keynote address by Jimmy [1] has a Copyright 
> Claim by Star News, a subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's NewsCorp. The video had 
> been blocked in certain countries and we could not change the licensing to 
> enable people to reuse freely (and there are ads next to the video).
>
> This morning I have filed a dispute with Youtube and sent an email to Google 
> as well mentioning that this is outrageous since it was our event and our 
> videographer - I fail to understand how this claim is tenable! Will keep you 
> posted on the response.
>
>
> [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsfmCnyg8Mc
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
> PS: Commons was not used due to file size restrictions.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Smurfs Movie is infringing on wikipedia copyright

[Mike Dupont]

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 1:54 AM, Bence Damokos  wrote:
> I guess, this is just one of the times where things in Hollywood are a
> bit different than in real life. The students and kids will just have
> to realize that things in films are not always true to life...
> (Without having seen the movie, I guess a long sequence on proper
> licensing would have been very boring, and ad agencies in real life
> would have a legal team making sure the licences are alright and who
> would be sued if they aren't – it's not like they would take their
> cues from a short scene in a Smurfs movie.)

Ok. I understand that. Maybe I am getting upset over nothing, but when
it comes to shutting down people who copy small clips and snippets
from movies, it seems that the industry also shows no mercy.

Well, what about a 10 second sequence, "Oh we need to send this to the
legal dept to check the permissions on using the image".
So, do you think that wikipedia should allow its logo to be used in a
copy and paste exercise? Is it not the last bit of control that the
wikipedia has is the use of its name and logo in a way that goes
against the mission. Or is it such good advertising that we should be
happy to see wikipedia being used.
At least part of the article seems to have been a copy, even if the
image was a different one, it seems to me that at least parts of
creative commons licensed material was copied into the film images.

thanks for your opinions and feedback,
mike


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Re: [Foundation-l] Smurfs Movie is infringing on wikipedia copyright

[Mike Dupont]

Well I found it disturbing, and i stlll find it disturbing.

I still find that we are failing our mission if we just accept this.
Someone has to stand up and say something about this, so I guess I
will have to stand alone.


here are some stats on the licences in general
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Metrics/License_statistics I did not
find any license stats for wikipedia or commons.

Also a number of images are fair usage on wikipedia.


In any case, it is a bad example for kids, it is a bad example for
students, it is a bad example for anyone. we should not allow the
wikipedia logo and name to be used in such a manner.

People need to check the license before you use them, advertising
agencies cannot just take pictures off the wikipedia and copy them
into your advertising, students cannot just copy them into their
homework. You need to research into them first and check the license.

thanks,
mike

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 12:59 AM, geni  wrote:
> On 17 December 2011 23:09, Mike  Dupont  
> wrote:
>> Well thanks for the great explanation, so the did their homework.
>> now what about the example that is being given to kids, just google
>> it, download an image from wikipedia and then use it in your
>> advertising campaign.
>> How could wikipedia allow someone to use the wikipedia logo in such a manner?
>> mike
>
> Well we do have quite a collection of public domain images where you
> can do precisely that. Realistically I think we have to accept that
> most films are not going to include extended scenes covering copyright
> and free licenses.
>
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Smurfs Movie is infringing on wikipedia copyright

[Mike Dupont]

erently from the classic
> media requests.  If Coke or Google or Nike want to use our brand, we engage
> in a different conversation. Arguably both Hollywood and Coke are in the
> same business: making money, but film, TV, documentary projects can often
> tell a bigger and more important story.  Also, we continue to encourage
> lawful, fair use of our marks in journalistic efforts.  Though fair use is
> different around the world (or non-existent) we regularly tell
> permission-seekers they can use our marks for what we'd consider to be
> fair-use media requests here in the US.
>
> Hope that sheds some light - I know it's a lot of info to digest!  Btw, I'm
> kind of sorry you had to sit through The Smurfs Movie...
>
> jay
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Robert Rohde  wrote:
>
>> Is that screenshot actually from Wikipedia?
>>
>> It looks like the name is File:Blue Moon.JPG (though it is hard to
>> tell from the video), but we have no such image under that name.
>>
>> The article [[blue moon]] actually uses a different image, and as far
>> as I can see from browsing the history it always has.
>>
>> So, it seems like it might not even be a real screenshot of Wikipedia,
>> but rather a page that had been further edited for their purposes.
>> For example, they easily could have swapped in a public domain image
>> of the moon from NASA.
>>
>> -Robert Rohde
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Kim Bruning 
>> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:59:05PM +0100, Mike Dupont wrote:
>> >> I found a clip with the wikipedia lifting being shown :
>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJxqFMPe95c
>> >
>> > Do we get properly credited in the end credits?
>> > if not, it's time to
>> >
>> > ...UNLEASH THE LAWYER!!!...
>> >
>> > (Who can have a nice sit down and a cup of tea, and make sure they
>> > modify the credits properly. :-) )
>> >
>> > sincerely,
>> >        Kim Bruning
>> >
>> > --
>> >
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>
>
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Smurfs Movie is infringing on wikipedia copyright

[Mike Dupont]

I found a clip with the wikipedia lifting being shown :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJxqFMPe95c




On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Risker  wrote:
> Just think...if it is included in an online advertisement, Wikipedia could
> use SOPA to bring down the film for copyright infringement
>
> Risker
>
> On 17 December 2011 06:20, Ole Palnatoke Andersen wrote:
>
>> It was mentioned on the Wikimedia Foundation Communications Committee
>> Mailing List in September.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ole
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Mike  Dupont
>>  wrote:
>> > The smurfs move disturbed me when I watched it,
>> > Not only does the actor in the movie lift an image off the wikipedia
>> > and use it in his advertising campaign, but the movie itself gives no
>> > credits to wikipedia on the webpage etc.
>> >
>> http://rdfintrospector2.blogspot.com/2011/12/smurfs-movie-wikipedia-copyleft.html
>> >
>> > mike
>> > --
>> > James Michael DuPont
>> > Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
>> >
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>>
>> --
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>>
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[Foundation-l] Smurfs Movie is infringing on wikipedia copyright

[Mike Dupont]

The smurfs move disturbed me when I watched it,
Not only does the actor in the movie lift an image off the wikipedia
and use it in his advertising campaign, but the movie itself gives no
credits to wikipedia on the webpage etc.
http://rdfintrospector2.blogspot.com/2011/12/smurfs-movie-wikipedia-copyleft.html

mike
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Re: [Foundation-l] Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

[Mike Dupont]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Mike Godwin  wrote:

> Again, speaking only for myself, I believe the Italian Wikimedians
> made the right choice, and I believe that, so long as this tactic is
> not overused, a strike may be the best and most effective response to
> other anti-free-speech events in the future.
>

I agree.


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Re: [Foundation-l] A Wikimedia project has forked

[Mike Dupont]

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:57 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:

>
> From Wikimedia's perspective, I think this is "one down, several hundred to
> go." Wikimedia has made it clear that its singular focus is the English
> Wikipedia. All other Wikipedias are peripheral; all other project types are
> abandoned. Perhaps with the exception of Wikimedia Commons, which is able
> to
> pull in grant money, so it continues to receive some level of technical
> support.
>

oh that is alarming. can you tell me more?
mike
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Re: [Foundation-l] Tragedy: videos and slides from presentations Wikimanias (lately 2011 in Haifa)

[Mike Dupont]

Hi,
we have been using archive.org for our conference videos, it works pretty
good.
mike

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Jan Kucera (Kozuch) wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I think WMF should set up some "quality measures" to make sure there
> actually is some reasonable online output from every Wikimedia conference.
> There might be thousands of editors not being able to attend but wanting to
> watch what was going on. Now you have to dig and beg for any slides or video
> on Commons. I do not know the decision process for a location but so far
> almost every host failed miserably to deliver some reasonable online content
> like videos and slides from the presentations.
>
> Kozuch
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Report your news for Wikizine 125

[Mike Dupont]

Thanks for this, I was just reading the last issue, very interesting!
mike

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> Wikizine 125 [1] is under construction and it will be published at
> August 25. If you don't want to be bold and edit the page, you can use
> this form [2] to report your Wikimedian news.
>
> Anything related to Wikimedia is relevant for Wikizine, so don't be shy!
>
> Note just a couple of temporal issues:
> * Wikizine is a weekly, so events older than two weeks at the time of
> publishing are likely outdated. Events younger than two weeks in the
> future are likely to be premature. (Note that it doesn't need to be
> true if it is about important and big events; so your reports from
> Wikimania are still welcome.)
> * If something will happen at August 24, that's the past for this
> edition and should be covered after the event, not before.
>
> [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikizine/EN2011-125
> [2] http://ur1.ca/4y4vw
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Greg Kohs and Peter Damian

[Mike Dupont]

I dont subscribe to mr kohs views, but I just reposted it for the record.
mike

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Huib Laurens  wrote:

> Don't think Austin has anything to do with this. While its strange
> that a mail is gone.
>
> But a list moderator nor administrator cant delete mails from the archive.
>
> 2011/7/23, Mike  Dupont :
> > It looks like my message here was truncated from the mailing list
> archive,
> > so I am reposting it.
> >
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-October/061709.html
> >
> > Mr Kohs pointed this out here :
> > http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=34460
> > thanks,
> > mike
> > --- Original Text --
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > From what I have seen about Greg Kohs is that he does have some
> > interesting points to make, but I do see that he is jumping to
> > conclusions and does seem to have a biased viewpoint.
> >
> > People want to make their own decisions and have enough information to
> > do that. We don't want to have important information deleted away
> > because it is uncomfortable.
> >
> > Banning him makes it less likely for him to be heard, and these
> > interesting points which are worth considering are not heard my many
> > people : this is depriving people of critical information, that is not
> > fair to the people involved.
> >
> > Just look at this article for example, it is quite interesting and
> > well written, and why should it not be visible to everyone on the
> > list.
> >
> >
> http://www.examiner.com/wiki-edits-in-national/wikimedia-foundation-director-admits-to-sweetheart-contracts
> >
> > Deleting and banning people who say things that are not comfortable,
> > that does make you look balanced and trustworthy.
> >
> > The Wikimedia foundation should be able to stand up to such
> > accusations without resorting to gagging people, it just gives more
> > credit to the people being gagged and makes people wonder if there is
> > any merit in what they say.
> >
> > This brings up my favorite subject of unneeded deletions versions needed
> > ones.
> >
> > Of course there is material that should be deleted that is hateful,
> > Spam etc, lets call that evil content.
> >
> > But the articles that i wrote and my friends wrote that were deleted
> > did not fall into that category, they might have been just bad or not
> > notable.
> >
> > We have had a constant struggle to keep our articles from being
> > deleted in a manner that we consider unfair. Additionally, the bad
> > content is lost and falls into the same category as evil content.
> >
> > Also there should be more transparency on deleted material on the
> > Wikipedia itself, there is a lot of information that is being deleted
> > and gone forever without proper process or review.
> >
> > In my eyes there is a connection between the two topics, the banning
> > of people and the deleting of information. Both are depriving people
> > from information that they want and need in an unfair manner.
> >
> > Instead of articles about obscure events, things, and old places in
> > Kosovo you have a wikipedia full of the latest information about every
> > television show, is that what you really want?
> >
> > I think there should be room for things in places that are not not
> > notable because they are not part of mainstream pop culture, we also
> > need to support the underdogs of Wikipedia even if they are not
> > mainstream, Mr Kohs definitely has something to say and I would like
> > like to hear it. And the Kosovars have something to say even if the
> > Serbs don't want to hear it. The Albanians have something to say even
> > if the Greeks don't want to hear it, etc. There are many cases of
> > people from Kosovo and Albania driven out of Wikipedia and depriving
> > the project of important information because they are not able to get
> > started and the contributions are so far way from the dominating
> > political viewpoint of the opposite side that they don't even get a
> > chance to be heard.
> >
> > We need to make a way for these people to be heard and to moderate the
> > conflicts better, that will make Wikipedia stronger and more robust.
> >
> > thanks,
> > mike
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Mike Dupont <
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> From what I have seen about Greg Kohs is 

Re: [Foundation-l] Greg Kohs and Peter Damian

[Mike Dupont]

It looks like my message here was truncated from the mailing list archive,
so I am reposting it.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-October/061709.html

Mr Kohs pointed this out here :
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=34460
thanks,
mike
--- Original Text --

Hello,

>From what I have seen about Greg Kohs is that he does have some
interesting points to make, but I do see that he is jumping to
conclusions and does seem to have a biased viewpoint.

People want to make their own decisions and have enough information to
do that. We don't want to have important information deleted away
because it is uncomfortable.

Banning him makes it less likely for him to be heard, and these
interesting points which are worth considering are not heard my many
people : this is depriving people of critical information, that is not
fair to the people involved.

Just look at this article for example, it is quite interesting and
well written, and why should it not be visible to everyone on the
list.

http://www.examiner.com/wiki-edits-in-national/wikimedia-foundation-director-admits-to-sweetheart-contracts

Deleting and banning people who say things that are not comfortable,
that does make you look balanced and trustworthy.

The Wikimedia foundation should be able to stand up to such
accusations without resorting to gagging people, it just gives more
credit to the people being gagged and makes people wonder if there is
any merit in what they say.

This brings up my favorite subject of unneeded deletions versions needed
ones.

Of course there is material that should be deleted that is hateful,
Spam etc, lets call that evil content.

But the articles that i wrote and my friends wrote that were deleted
did not fall into that category, they might have been just bad or not
notable.

We have had a constant struggle to keep our articles from being
deleted in a manner that we consider unfair. Additionally, the bad
content is lost and falls into the same category as evil content.

Also there should be more transparency on deleted material on the
Wikipedia itself, there is a lot of information that is being deleted
and gone forever without proper process or review.

In my eyes there is a connection between the two topics, the banning
of people and the deleting of information. Both are depriving people
from information that they want and need in an unfair manner.

Instead of articles about obscure events, things, and old places in
Kosovo you have a wikipedia full of the latest information about every
television show, is that what you really want?

I think there should be room for things in places that are not not
notable because they are not part of mainstream pop culture, we also
need to support the underdogs of Wikipedia even if they are not
mainstream, Mr Kohs definitely has something to say and I would like
like to hear it. And the Kosovars have something to say even if the
Serbs don't want to hear it. The Albanians have something to say even
if the Greeks don't want to hear it, etc. There are many cases of
people from Kosovo and Albania driven out of Wikipedia and depriving
the project of important information because they are not able to get
started and the contributions are so far way from the dominating
political viewpoint of the opposite side that they don't even get a
chance to be heard.

We need to make a way for these people to be heard and to moderate the
conflicts better, that will make Wikipedia stronger and more robust.

thanks,
mike


On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Mike Dupont  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> From what I have seen about Greg Kohs is that he does have some
> interesting points to make, but I do see that he is jumping to
> conclusions and does seem to have a biased viewpoint.
>
> People want to make their own decisions and have enough information to
> do that. We don't want to have important information deleted away
> because it is uncomfortable.
>
> Banning him makes it less likely for him to be heard, and these
> interesting points which are worth considering are not heard my many
> people : this is depriving people of critical information, that is not
> fair to the people involved.
>
> Just look at this article for example, it is quite interesting and
> well written, and why should it not be visible to everyone on the
> list.
>
>
> http://www.examiner.com/wiki-edits-in-national/wikimedia-foundation-director-admits-to-sweetheart-contracts
>
> Deleting and banning people who say things that are not comfortable,
> that does make you look balanced and trustworthy.
>
> The Wikimedia foundation should be able to stand up to such
> accusations without resorting to gagging people, it just gives more
> credit to the people being gagged and makes people wonder if there is
> any merit in what they say.
>
> This brings up my favo

Re: [Foundation-l] Election results?

[Mike Dupont]

Congrats to the winners! What a great team.

BTW, we are going to be organizing a new conference the first weekend of
november in Prishtina, again, skf11 the third edition. It would be great to
get some speakers from wikimedia, we have had milos, gerardm (in vlore,
albania at the partner event freesb) , who else might be interested?

mike


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Re: [Foundation-l] Elections email

[Mike Dupont]

Well thanks for the invite, and I voted.

Same here two invites, and also I got the mail a little late, cause the
voting is already half over.

I blogged about this as well
http://undeletewikipedia.blogspot.com/2011/06/funny-voting-for-wikimedia-board-of.html

mike

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Sarah  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 08:16, Béria Lima  wrote:
> > I receveid two mails:
> >
> > 1. To my main account (Beria) in portuguese.
> >
> > 2. To one of my bot accounts, in english.
> >
> > So, i will guess that the language is chosen based in the home wiki (my
> bot
> > has more edits in en.wiki than in pt.wiki)
> > _
>
> I also received two invitations to vote, including to a little-used
> alternative account, one that is obviously mine from the name. This
> suggests among other things that the minimum voting requirements must
> be pretty low.
>
> Sarah
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] YouTube and Creative Commons

[Mike Dupont]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Tanvir Rahman  wrote:
> formate. So, I think most of the YouTube videos need to be converted to ogv
> (from mpeg or flv). Can we do that automatically with script?

ffmpeg and or mencoder can do this,
in theory it could run on toolserver, but those tools burn cpu big time.
mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] Promotional material about the user's activities outside Wikipedia, nothing useful to Wikipedia

[Mike Dupont]

Hello, sorry to bring this up, again, but this guy, mr whitewriter has
been wikihounding me, he just does not give up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Skier_Dude#Hi_dude.21_:.29

It really hurts me to be treated this way and I wonder if this
behavior of whitewriter will be tolerated and supported? How can one
editor constantly attack people and get away with it,

mike


On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> On 04/26/2011 03:56 AM, John Vandenberg wrote:
>>> (BTW, related to that, may folk from en.wp raise requirements for so
>>> called "consensus" related to page deletion? Something like "at least
>>> five users with at least 500 edits" would save many useful material from
>>> systemic trolling.)
>>
>> Do any other wikis have similar thresholds?
>
> If I remember well, sr.wp has some thresholds related to policy
> decisions. Not sure about deletion; but RfD on sr.wp are far from en.wp
> traffic.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Promotional material about the user's activities outside Wikipedia, nothing useful to Wikipedia

[Mike Dupont]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Fred Bauder wrote:

> > Hi there,
> > look guys someone deleted my pages promoting our work in Kosovo and
> > Albania
> > from my user page saying they are of no use to the wikipedia
> > can someone please comment on that?
> > Gerard was at the event in Albania that was supposedly not helping the
> > wikipedia to talk about wikipedia there.
> > Milos was at the event in 2009 to talk about wikipedia as well. I think
> > many
> > of you might have heard about the work I have been doing to promote
> > wikipedia, and now all my user pages on those topics have been deleted.
> >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Mdupont/AgimRamadani
> >
> >
> >-
> > User:Mdupont/OpenLetterToFreeSoftwareCommunities<
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mdupont/OpenLetterToFreeSoftwareCommunities&action=edit&redlink=1
> >
> >
> >
> >- WP:WEBHOST  -
> >Promotional material about the user's activities outside Wikipedia,
> > nothing
> >useful to Wikipedia
> >
> >
> >  thank,
> > mike
>
>
> How would people from Kosovo or Albania find all those user pages?
>
> Fred
>
>
>
Well, we had been sharing that open letter link all over the internet, and
the team there had been helping with it,
I think that i posted it on the portals as well. We should do more for
outreach, there was a wikipedia 10 party in prishtina.
mike


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Re: [Foundation-l] Promotional material about the user's activities outside Wikipedia, nothing useful to Wikipedia

[Mike Dupont]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:56 AM, John Vandenberg  wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> > On 04/25/2011 11:53 PM, John Vandenberg wrote:
> >> I have restored a subset of these pages.  Some of them would be better
> >> on the Meta or outreach wikis.
> >
> > Thanks, John!
> >
> > Mike, you should ask for help before conclusion of deletion. Discussion
> > about deletion was small and was a typical example of systemic trolling
> > because of lack of interest.
> >
> > (BTW, related to that, may folk from en.wp raise requirements for so
> > called "consensus" related to page deletion? Something like "at least
> > five users with at least 500 edits" would save many useful material from
> > systemic trolling.)
>
> Do any other wikis have similar thresholds?
>
> > If no one notified you about deletion process, you should complain on
> > wiki.
>
> Mike was given an automated notification about one page, which he
> probably didnt care about, but the deletion covered lots of other
> pages as well.
>

I have not gotten emails at all from wikipedia in a while, but the mails
from commons work.
Hmm, it seems that I overlooked the page on my talk, it was there. Silly me.
Anyway, thanks alot for the restore.
mike


>
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>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Promotional material about the user's activities outside Wikipedia, nothing useful to Wikipedia

[Mike Dupont]

Thanks, John,
I will move them to an outreach page, any tips are welcome.

thanks
mike

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:53 PM, John Vandenberg  wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Gerard Meijssen
>  wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Mike is a well know activist who promotes Open Source and Wikipedia in
> > Albania and Kosovo. People do know him and will find the information he
> > provides.
>
> I have restored a subset of these pages.  Some of them would be better
> on the Meta or outreach wikis.
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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[Foundation-l] Promotional material about the user's activities outside Wikipedia, nothing useful to Wikipedia

[Mike Dupont]

Hi there,
look guys someone deleted my pages promoting our work in Kosovo and Albania
from my user page saying they are of no use to the wikipedia
can someone please comment on that?
Gerard was at the event in Albania that was supposedly not helping the
wikipedia to talk about wikipedia there.
Milos was at the event in 2009 to talk about wikipedia as well. I think many
of you might have heard about the work I have been doing to promote
wikipedia, and now all my user pages on those topics have been deleted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Mdupont/AgimRamadani


   - 
User:Mdupont/OpenLetterToFreeSoftwareCommunities


   - WP:WEBHOST  -
   Promotional material about the user's activities outside Wikipedia, nothing
   useful to Wikipedia


 thank,
mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board Resolution: Openness

[Mike Dupont]

About the foundation openness,
I wanted to write a comment on the foundation page, but it was not open.
So I wrote my comment on SJ talk page,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sj#Openness

Here is what I have to say about wikipedia and openness :
;

HI, I wanted to comment on
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Talk:Resolution:Openness

I have lost interest in wasting my time on wikipedia after being harassed by
WhiteWriter and his friends while editing articles related to kosovo. The
serbs are stalking and harassing anyone who even wants to add simple facts
and make life difficult for anyone. It is a real pain. I hope that you will
get them under control some day, they are really messing wikipedia up.
thanks, mike James Michael DuPont(
talk ) 21:54, 8 April 2011

;

Mike
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Re: [Foundation-l] Missing Wikipedians: An Essay

[Mike Dupont]

I have read this article this morning,

Well this is a similar problem I am having with adding details to, or new
articles about Kosovo,
even my attempts are getting deleted. Having problems even getting the
Turkish, Bosnian or Albanian alternative names added without being deleted,
even if sources, let alone a coverage of members of parliament (list of them
deleted as not notable).
Also local pop-stars who are not notable by English newspapers are deleted,
even if they are well know and unavoidable.

If you have any interest in learning about a minor place, its politics,
culture and so forth then you would want to keep these articles.
My suggestion was to create a list of politicians, which if not notable
themselves, as a total should be interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_politicians_in_Kosovo
I based this upon the local election that recently took place, and this
article was deleted. you can see my backup here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mdupont/List_of_politicians_in_Kosovo

Similar lists could be made of local items in other countries, at least they
would not pollute the global name-space of articles, but an interested party
would find time.

Anyway, I can give you more examples of similar problems if you are
interested.
Btw, we are working on raising funds to help promote editors to work on core
articles on the sq.wikipedia, and that might be a good solution to get more
people working on that, it is less disputed.

mike



On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 12:24 AM, aude  wrote:

> Heather Ford, a former Wikimedia advisory board member and
> researcher/writer
> in South Africa has written an essay, "The Missing Wikipedians" about
> systematic bias on English Wikipedia (especially) against new users and
> topics pertinent to Africa and other diverse places/people.
>
> As an example, she cites the English Wikipedia article [[Makmende]] and the
> deletion request made, biting the newbie.
>
> http://hblog.org/2011/02/16/the-missing-wikipedians/
>
> Please read and discuss.  What might we do to help make Wikipedia a more
> welcoming place for newbies and for such diverse topics?
>
> Cheers,
> Katie (@aude)
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Re: [Foundation-l] Banners coming down for most logged in users

[Mike Dupont]

Can I make a humble suggestion about the banners, and some other things.
on my slow computer, the banner takes a while to load, and when i click on
the page the click lands on the banner.
I dont mind looking at the banner, but I do mind that i click on it all the
time by accident,
maybe a simple trick to allocate space for it with some html and then load
the image later. that would at least help people on slow computers and slow
connections.

Another optimization would be to be able to display only a section of a
large page, like edit section, with preview, but display section.
It would be nice to only load the headers of the page sections and the load
the rest with ajax, that would speed up the page loads greatly.

It would be also nice on commons to be able to find pages by filename or
text, the search does not seem to find things properly.
just some ideas that have occured to me. We are also looking for some prize
money for the photo competition if anyone wants to donate some.

thanks,
mike

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Philippe Beaudette <
pbeaude...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> A quick announcement: we are temporarily turning off the fundraising
> banners for most logged in users.  This will continue most likely through
> the end of the year.  We did some quick checking and realized that most
> people who are logged in and intend to give have already given.  The banners
> will stay off for a while, and we'll most likely not turn them on until
> after the first of the year for a final wrap-up push.
>
> For those of you in chapter areas, as always, the chapters control
> messaging in their territories - this should only impact users who are in
> the areas where the fundraiser messaging is controlled by the Foundation.
>
> Enjoy the respite :)
>
> Philippe
>
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> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> pbeaude...@wikimedia.org
>
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> in the sum of all knowledge.  Help us make it a reality!
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Old Wikipedia backups discovered

[Mike Dupont]

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Tim Starling  wrote:
> HomePage
> * WikiPedia
> * PhilosophyAndLogic
> * UnitedStates
> * PopularMusic
> * SportS
> * MathematicsAndStatistics
> * CountriesOfTheWorld
> * AaA
> * AfghanistaN
> * UuU
> * TechnologY
> * ComputinG
> * ComputerSoftware
> * TransporT
> * NamingConventions

Nice, I have added this as a userpage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mdupont/FirstPages

All of them work except for. They have been deleted as meaningless
with no relevant historical value.
20:12, 18 April 2006 RexNL (talk | contribs) deleted "AfghanistaN" ‎
(content was: '{{db|R3:Redirects as a result of an implausible
typo}}#REDIRECT Afghanistan')
09:19, 24 May 2005 Thue (talk | contribs) deleted "TechnologY" ‎
(content was: '#REDIRECT Technology')
04:48, 8 March 2007 Raul654 (talk | contribs) deleted
"NamingConventions" ‎ (content was: '#REDIRECT wikipedia:Naming
conventions')

The should all be restored under the catagory Muesum of WIkipedia!

mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 12:02 AM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/10/2010 2:58:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
> my idea was that you will want to search pages that are referenced by
> wikipedia already, in my work on kosovo, it would be very helpful
> because there are lots of bad results on google, and it would be nice
> to use that also to see how many times certain names occur.
> That is why we need also our own indexing engine, I would like to
> count the occurances of each term and what page they occur on, and to
> xref that to names on wikipedia against them. Wanted pages could also
> be assisted like this, what are the most wanted pages that match
> against the most common terms in the new refindex or also existing
> pages.
>
>
>
> Well then all you would need to do is cross-reference the refs themselves.
> You don't need to cache the underlying pages to which they refer.

well i was hoping to look at all the pages that wikipedia considers to
be valuable enough to be referenced, and to find new information on
those pages for other articles. I dont think it is enough to just look
at the referernces on the wikipedia itself, we should resolve them and
look at those pages, and also to build a list of sites of possible
full indexing, or at least some spidering.

>
> So in your new search engine, when you search for "Mary, Queen of Scots" you
> really are saying, show me those external references, which are mentioned,
> in connection with Mary Queen of Scots, by Wikipedia.

Not really, find all pages referenced in total by the wikipedia that
contain the term "Mary, Queen of Scots", maybe someone added a site to
an article on King Henry that contains the text "Mary, Queen of Scots"
that has not been referenced yet.

show me the occurrences of the word, the frequency, maybe in the
sentence or paragraph it occurs in and a link to the page and the
ability to see the cached version if the site is down. it can also be
cached on another site as well, if the same version.
>
> That doesn't require caching the pages to which refs refer.  It only
> requires indexing those refs which currently are used in-world.

Well indexing normally means caching as well, public or private. You
need to copy the pages into the memory of a computer to index them.
Best is to store them on disk.

The first step will be to collect all references of course, but the
second step will be to resolve them.This is also good to check for
dead references and mark them as such.

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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:16 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/10/2010 2:12:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
> Well, lets backtrack.
> The original question was, how can we exclude wikipedia clones from the
> search.
> my idea was to create a search engine that includes only refs from
> wikipedia in it.
> then the idea was to make our own engine instead of only using google.
> lets agree that we need first a list of references and we can talk
> about the details of the searching later.
> thanks,
> mike
>
>
> I search for "Mary Queen of Scots" and I want to exclude Wikipedia clones
> from my results, because I'm really only interested in... how many times she
> appears in various Wikipedia pages.  Why would I not just use the Wikipedia
> internal search engine then?

my idea was that you will want to search pages that are referenced by
wikipedia already, in my work on kosovo, it would be very helpful
because there are lots of bad results on google, and it would be nice
to use that also to see how many times certain names occur.
That is why we need also our own indexing engine, I would like to
count the occurances of each term and what page they occur on, and to
xref that to names on wikipedia against them. Wanted pages could also
be assisted like this, what are the most wanted pages that match
against the most common terms in the new refindex or also existing
pages.

These are the things that I would like to do.

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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

Well, lets backtrack.
The original question was, how can we exclude wikipedia clones from the search.
my idea was to create a search engine that includes only refs from
wikipedia in it.
then the idea was to make our own engine instead of only using google.
lets agree that we need first a list of references and we can talk
about the details of the searching later.
thanks,
mike

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:02 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/10/2010 1:31:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
> If we prefer pages that can be cached and translated, and mark the
> others that cannot, then by natural selection we will in long term
> replaces the pages that are not allowed to be cached with ones that
> can be.
>
> My suggestion is for a wikipedia project, something to be supported
> and run on the toolserver or similar.
>
>
> I think if you were to propose that we should "prefer" pages that "can be
> cached and translated" you'd get a firestorm of opposition.
> The majority of our refs, imho, are still under copyright.  This is because
> the majority of our refs are either web pages created by various authors who
> do not specify a free license (and therefore under U.S. law automatically
> enjoy copyright protection).  Or they are refs to works which are relatively
> current, and are cited, for example in Google Books Preview mode, or at
> Amazon look-inside pages.
>
> I still cannot see any reason why we would want to cache anything like
> this.  You haven't addressed what benefit it gives us, to cache refs.
> My last question here is not about whether we can or how, but how does it
> help the project?
>
> How?
>
> W
>



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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

I know all about the aspects of programming and copyright, I thought I
answered the questions.
Of course I can program this myself, and we can use open source
indexing tools for that. the translations of course are a separate
issue, they would be under the same restrictions as the source page.

If we prefer pages that can be cached and translated, and mark the
others that cannot, then by natural selection we will in long term
replaces the pages that are not allowed to be cached with ones that
can be.

My suggestion is for a wikipedia project, something to be supported
and run on the toolserver or similar.

mike

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 10:19 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/10/2010 1:10:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
> My point is we should index them ourselves. We should have the pages
> used as references first listed in an easy to use manner and if
> possible we should cache them. If they are not cacheable because of
> some restrictions, the references should be marked somehow as not as
> good and people might find better references. In the end, like
> citeseer you will find that pages that are available and open and
> cachable will be cited and used more than pages that are not.
>
> Right now, I dont know of a simple way to even get this list of
> references from wp. There is alot of work to do, and if we do this, it
> will benefit the wikipedia. Another thing to do is to translate the
> pages referenced.
>
> mike
>
>
> I understand your point, but you're avoiding answering the points I raised.
> They are archived at archive.org by permission.  You tell archive.org to
> archive your site, and they do.  You tell them to stop, and they do.
> What advantage would we have to repeat the caching yet again that
> archive.org is already doing?  You haven't answered that.
>
> No matter what occurs, you're going to have trouble retrieving the list of
> refs from a WP page (or any web page), without knowing some programming
> language like PHP.  Using PHP it's a fairly trivial parsing request.  It's
> that's your only problem, I can write you a script to do it, for twenty
> bucks.
>
> You cannot translate a work, which is under copyright protection, without
> violating their copyright.  Copyright extends to any effort that
> substantially mimics the underlying work.  A translation is found to violate
> copyright.  You could however make a parody :)
>
> W
>



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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:54 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/10/2010 12:48:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
> I am not talking about books, just webpages.
>
> lets take ladygaga.com as example
>
> Wayback engine :
> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.ladygaga.com
>
> Google cache:
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1720lEPHkysJ:www.ladygaga.com/+lady+gaga&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-a
>
> here are two copies of copyrighted materials, we should make sure that
> our referenced webpages are in archive.org or mirrored on some server.
> Ideally we would have our own search engine and cache.
>
> mike
>
>
> I have no problem with the idea of pointing refs to a page on archive.org,
> however you must understand that even previously archived pages *may* be
> removed from archive.org at the owner's request or even at the request of a
> .robots entry.
>
> The only advantage I see over using archive.org instead of a plain link, is
> the ability to see what a page *looked* like in the past.  I'm not sure
> that's a great advantage.  Why do you think it is?  If a page comes down,
> should we not err on the part of assuming the owner no longer wants it
> public and if the owner doesnt want it public, are we to make sure it stays
> public by caching it against their will?
>
> Both Google and Archive.org (much to my utter dismay) obey certain rules set
> up by web page owners to not index certain pages, or to remove them from
> caching history entirely (even old copies).  Are you suggesting we disregard
> those rules?  If not, then I see no advantage in our caching pages which are
> available in caches already.

My point is we should index them ourselves. We should have the pages
used as references first listed in an easy to use manner and if
possible we should cache them. If they are not cacheable because of
some restrictions, the references should be marked somehow as not as
good and people might find better references. In the end, like
citeseer you will find that pages that are available and open and
cachable will be cited and used more than pages that are not.

Right now, I dont know of a simple way to even get this list of
references from wp. There is alot of work to do, and if we do this, it
will benefit the wikipedia. Another thing to do is to translate the
pages referenced.

mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

I am not talking about books, just webpages.

lets take ladygaga.com as example

Wayback engine :
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.ladygaga.com

Google cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1720lEPHkysJ:www.ladygaga.com/+lady+gaga&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-a

here are two copies of copyrighted materials, we should make sure that
our referenced webpages are in archive.org or mirrored on some server.
Ideally we would have our own search engine and cache.

mike

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:00 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/10/2010 11:55:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
> i mean google has copies, caches of items for searching.
> How can google cache this?
> Archive.org has copyrighted materials as well.
> We should be able to save backups of this material as well.
> mike
>
>
>
> Mike I believe your statement lacks evidence.
> I don't think either of these has available full copies of anything under
> copyright.
> If you can give an example, please do so, so I can look at your specific
> example.
>
> Google Books has copies, not Google.  The full readable copies are all under
> public domain.
> The snippet views are not.  The preview views mean that they actually
> received *permission* from the copyright holder to do a preview view.
>
> That's why it's very rare to find a preview view for any book that predates
> the internet!  You either get snippet or full.
> Probably the author is actually dead, and they can't find who holds the
> copyright easily today.  Or it's too much trouble for a book that fifteen
> people look at.
>
> W



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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

i mean google has copies, caches of items for searching.
How can google cache this?
Archive.org has copyrighted materials as well.
We should be able to save backups of this material as well.
mike

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:16 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/9/2010 11:06:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
>> Google does it, archive.org (wayback machine) does it, we can copy
>> them for caching and searching i assume. we are not changing the
>> license, but just preventing the information from disappearing on us. >>
>>
>
> You are thinking of refs which are out-of-copyright.
> Google books only gives snippet views of some books still under copyright
> for which they've not gotten permission to show an entire page at a time
> (which is preview mode).
>
> archive.org as well has copies of works out-of-copyright (or otherwise in
> the public domain)
>
> Your original statement was that we should copy refs.  Many or most of our
> refs are under copyright still.
> We would not be able to do what you suggest imho.
>
> W
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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 6:02 PM,   wrote:
> In a message dated 12/9/2010 2:51:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
>> yes it would be great. As i said, it could just include all pages
>> listed as REF pages and that would allow people to review the results
>> and find pages that should not belong.
>>
>> We also need to cache all these pages, best would be with a revision
>> history. It should be similar to or using archive.org.
>>
>
> We would not be able to do that for copyright reasons.
> Some if not most of the refs are still under copyright, we cannot make
> copies of those pages.

Google does it, archive.org (wayback machine) does it, we can copy
them for caching and searching i assume. we are not changing the
license, but just preventing the information from disappearing on us.

mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Fred Bauder  wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Domas Mituzas 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Dupont wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sounds like we need to have a notable search engine that includes only
>>>> "approved and allowed" sources, that would be nice to have.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a great community project, Wiki Search!
>>
>> yes it would be great. As i said, it could just include all pages
>> listed as REF pages and that would allow people to review the results
>> and find pages that should not belong.
>>
>> We also need to cache all these pages, best would be with a revision
>> history. It should be similar to or using archive.org.
>>
>> The searching could also use lucene or some other project. It does not
>> have to be google.
>>
>> On this note, I would really like to see a wordindex for openstreetmap
>> as well, there is a huge amount of information that could be relevant
>> in osm that should be easier to use in WP.
>>
>> mike
>
> Openstreetmap is a wiki still in the "Wild West" phase. Words cannot
> express the nonsense it hosts.

If you are looking for a place named "X" or a location for some
article then it would be nice to have a better search engine of that
content. Wikipedia can help. Of course the WP articles are of a higher
standard than alot of OSM data, but there is a greater coverage. There
are alot of articles with no coords that could be fixed or assisted by
editor having a faster and better index to the  OSM data, no doubt.
mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Domas Mituzas  wrote:
>
> On Dec 8, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Dupont wrote:
>
>> Sounds like we need to have a notable search engine that includes only
>> "approved and allowed" sources, that would be nice to have.
>
> Sounds like a great community project, Wiki Search!

yes it would be great. As i said, it could just include all pages
listed as REF pages and that would allow people to review the results
and find pages that should not belong.

We also need to cache all these pages, best would be with a revision
history. It should be similar to or using archive.org.

The searching could also use lucene or some other project. It does not
have to be google.

On this note, I would really like to see a wordindex for openstreetmap
as well, there is a huge amount of information that could be relevant
in osm that should be easier to use in WP.

mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

I thought about this more,
It would be to extract a list of all pages that are included as 
in the WP. We would use this for the search engine.
we should also make sure that all referenced pages (not linked ones)
are stored in archive.org or someplace permanent.
I wonder if there is some API to extract this list easily?
mike

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:49 PM, praveenp  wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 December 2010 05:16 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
>> I know that some Wikipedias customized Special:Search, adding other search
>> engines except Wikipedias built-in one. I tried to see whether any Wikipedia
>> added an ability to search using Google (or Bing, or Yahoo, or any other
>> search engine) excluding Wikipedia clones. Does anyone know whether it's
>> possible to build such a thing? And maybe it already exists and i didn't
>> search well enough?
>>
> http://ml.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch
>
> not excluding other sites, but only including results from
> ml.wikipedia.org using site:ml.wikipedia.org in query
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] excluding Wikipedia clones from searching

[Mike Dupont]

Sounds like we need to have a notable search engine that includes only
"approved and allowed" sources, that would be nice to have.

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 5:08 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
> On 8 December 2010 15:26, Amir E. Aharoni  
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, but that may also exclude sites that are useful and original, but
>> happen to mention Wikipedia.
>
> Add -"quoted sentence from article intro" to the search?
>
>
> - d.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Photo contests in DE and NL

[Mike Dupont]

Good Job !
We were inspired by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GerardM who Spoke the
freesb.eu conf in Vlore Albania and motivated us to start our own Photo
Contest for Kosovo.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/BestPictureOfKosovoForWikipediaContestThere
is still alot to do, most of the activity is on Facebook, but we are
slowly getting people to free pictures up for commons under a creative
commons license. Any who wants to help nominate pictures or review them
would be great.
thanks,
mike

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote:

> Hello,
>
> A coincidence: last weekend, in Germany and the Netherlands both the
> winners of photo contests were made public. In Germany the Zedler
> Medaille jury gave no first and second prize, while in the Netherlands
> the competition Wiki loves monuments honoured quite a number of
> winners.
> (In English about the Dutch gathering:
> http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/2010/11/21/mini-conference-in-utrecht/ )
>
> Maybe the Zedler criteria were not made clear enough to the
> participants, I don't know. In the Dutch case, I was stunned and
> positively impressed by the straight forward application of three
> simple criteria: the picture had to be clear (focused etc.),
> encyclopedic and beautiful.
>
> The Dutch winner is this picture:
>
> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Amsterdam_-_Vijzelstraat_27-35_%28halsgevel%29.JPG
> It may not meet the requirements of a purely technically or
> esthetically oriented jury. But it has great encyclopedic value. It
> shows the monument, a 17th century building in Amsterdam, in its
> actual modern use. On the right, you see an old picture of how the
> building looked like earlier. The advertisement for light bulb and the
> gentlemen dressed in modern leisure related fashion fix the picture
> into our modern times.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
> --
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> The Netherlands
> http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] naming of things in kosovo

[Mike Dupont]

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:19 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
> 2. This is about en:wp only.

I am taking it to the english  list. thanks for your attention.

A final point for the entire project, not just any language,
I would like point out that the sr.wikipedia and sq.wikipedia for
kosovo articles are basically uncontrolled POV forks each telling a
different story. Have you ever compared the translations of them to
English against each other?

mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] naming of things in kosovo

[Mike Dupont]

I have done a write up of the current issues with the naming and
invite you to please read and comment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mdupont#Naming_and_status_of_Kosovo_pages

I suggest some things and would like to find agreement, we need to
figure out the right way forward on this issue so we can improve the
quality of the articles.

Even if we don't change the names of the articles, we have to make
sure that the articles are usable for people if they only know the
albanian or serbian name. We need to also clean up the entire Parallel
article structure for the Districts of Kosovo, Districts of Kosovo
(serbia) and Municipalities of Kosovo.  The district scheme is totally
outdated and confusing. It reduces the quality of the Wikipedia to
have POV Forks.
thanks
mike

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:08 AM, M. Williamson  wrote:
> Yes, sure, but a lot of smaller villages and towns in many countries
> do not have well-established English names. Besides, what constitutes
> the "English name" is a matter of debate - according to law, the
> official name of Kolkata in English is "Kolkata"... but then, couldn't
> Germany pass a law saying that their name in English was
> "Bundesrepublik Deustchland", and would we have to consider that just
> as English as "Kolkata" or "Thiruvananthapuram" (formerly Calcutta and
> Trivandrum)?
>
> Anyhow, referring to things by their conventional English name is the
> reason we call it Kosovo and not Kosovë or Kosova, the Albanian names;
> however in cases such as village and town names, names of mountains
> and bridges, etc. which may have been referred to both ways in English
> literature or barely mentioned or not mentioned at all in English
> sources, it's less clear-cut.
>
>
>
> 2010/11/11 geni :
>> On 11 November 2010 14:26, Mike  Dupont  
>> wrote:
>>>  Ideally we would use the albanian
>>> names and encourage the locals to edit.
>>
>> No ideally we would use the English names. As we have established with
>> say "Germany" and "Norway" what the locals happen to call something is
>> of secondary significance.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [Foundation-l] wikimedia fundraiser

[Mike Dupont]

I have to say, I think it is good that wikimedia is not advertising funded,
because you provide a great service that is not geared to looking at
advertising.
Most webpages force you to look at ads, wikipedia does not. I think it
is a valuable resource and worth the donations.
We are working on translating the donation interface to albanian now,
and hope to find sponsors in that region.
mike

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:36 PM, FT2  wrote:
> Also because it's good for people to have to think year by year. makes them
> aware and not take it for granted. People who have some investment (be it
> effort or money or time or whatever) value something more.
>
> A wider community that has a reason to care is worth building - especially
> as the Wikimedia mission isn't just "build a website" but "make available
> free knowledge". In that context people willing to care matter, as an
> integral part of the mission.
>
> FT2
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Bod Notbod  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:17 PM, luke lenny 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > why can't wikimedia publish advertisements and generate revenue and
>> > become self-reliant,self-sustainable  , instead of asking for funds
>> > from user every year again and again...
>>
>> There's a number of issues. But painting it in broad terms; although
>> advertising might make the projects *financially* stable, it may not
>> make their *content* stable. That's to say, a lot of contributors /
>> volunteers / editors might leave.
>>
>> I'd argue with your terminology, though.
>>
>> You say that advertising would make the Foundation "self-reliant and
>> self-sustainable". It wouldn't be though, would it? It would be
>> reliant on advertisers and sustained by advertisers.
>>
>> Bodnotbod
>>
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Re: [Foundation-l] wikimedia fundraiser

[Mike Dupont]

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:17 PM, luke lenny  wrote:
> why can't wikimedia publish advertisements and generate revenue and
> become self-reliant,self-sustainable  , instead of asking for funds
> from user every year again and again...

I think that is called wikia.com?
mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] naming of things in kosovo

[Mike Dupont]

I think that at least a consistent listing of both names is needed,
expecially on the links. I have had to fight with simple unwillingness to
list both names in serbian and albanian on all things.

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Fred Bauder  wrote:

> > Hi there, I have seen a big problem in getting people to contribute in
> > kosovo to wikipedia
> > except the Kosovo article, there they dont call in *Kosovo and
> > Metohija*i,
> > so I think there is a president for the english and albanian names in
> > wikipedia.
> > most of the names are in serbian, with strange characters that I cannot
> > even
> > type.
> > this offends most contributors and prevents locals from contributing.
> > also the serbs erase all albanian names from the referring links so I
> > cannot
> > even find what I am looking for.
> > I would like to start to rename the articles to the albanian english
> > spellings with normal typiable characters. Ideally we would use the
> > albanian
> > names and encourage the locals to edit. Right now there is a minority
> > serb
> > group that is making life unpleasant for the local contributors.
> > see
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjeravica
> >
> > can someone guide me on this.
> > thanks,
> > mike
> >
> > --
> > James Michael DuPont
> > Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org
> > flossal.org
>
> My advice is to take it easy. We have had this dispute in other areas of
> the world, notably in the case of place names in Poland, most of which
> was under German control at some point and has a German name for nearly
> every possible location. Gdansk, Danzig, was a particular problem. I
> don't remember exactly how that was resolved, but I do remember all the
> fireworks.
>
> Start by creating redirects from all Albanian names to the existing
> articles if they are in Serbian, and vice-versa. Here's a tip, even if
> you can't type something, you can always copy and paste it, for example:
> Đeravica (Albanian: Gjeravica; Serbian Cyrillic:
> Ђеравица). I don't know
> that a redirect from
> Ђеравица would be
> necessary. That way every one can find their way around.
>
> I see an unsigned note on the talk page of Đeravica:
>
> Main reason to change, authors
>
> Listen, let me present you with the biggest reason to change the name,
> the local people are offended with the serbian names. They live there,
> and they feel that wikipedia is biased to serbia. This is a major reason
> not to contribute to wikipedia. It has been a big problem all the time.
> The few vocal serbs who are pushing to keep the old name dont even live
> there and cannot contribute much. the people who do live there and can
> write are being excluded.
>
> 12:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
>
> This is a familiar story to me, a lot of new people have moved to where I
> live and find even the name of a prominent mountain "offensive", see
> http://www.14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27964 I, of course, find
> them offensive. That said, Wikipedia, while a bit safer than armed
> combat, is not a battleground and there is little patience for edit
> warring. As far as prejudice, I'm pretty sure some Serbians feel
> Wikipedia is biased against them, and there may be a little truth in
> that. They have a poor public image.
>
> Wikipedia administrators will not put up with sustained ethnically-based
> edit warring. However, any one place will have one name under our
> conventions. How to decide? My intuitive idea is to tolerate Serbian
> names for places that figure prominently in Serbian history, for example
> the names of Serbian monasteries, palaces, forts, or battlefields, but
> use Albanian for place names that now are predominately Albanian. There
> is no Kosovo section at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)
> but that is where to set some guidelines after discussion with involved
> editors.
>
> In the case of Poland the discussion was extensive and guidelines are at
> Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Poland-related articles) That is the sort of
> resolution to work towards.
>
> So, talk, as you are, on talk pages; be patient; realize the other side
> also feels put upon and ask for help when you hit rough spots. Imposing a
> rule from above would be paternalistic and oppressive and it would be
> good if it could be avoided.
>
> Fred Bauder
>
>
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[Foundation-l] naming of things in kosovo

[Mike Dupont]

Hi there, I have seen a big problem in getting people to contribute in
kosovo to wikipedia
except the Kosovo article, there they dont call in *Kosovo and Metohija*i,
so I think there is a president for the english and albanian names in
wikipedia.
most of the names are in serbian, with strange characters that I cannot even
type.
this offends most contributors and prevents locals from contributing.
also the serbs erase all albanian names from the referring links so I cannot
even find what I am looking for.
I would like to start to rename the articles to the albanian english
spellings with normal typiable characters. Ideally we would use the albanian
names and encourage the locals to edit. Right now there is a minority serb
group that is making life unpleasant for the local contributors.
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjeravica

can someone guide me on this.
thanks,
mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] Paid editing, was Re: Ban and moderate

[Mike Dupont]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Houston Navarro
 wrote:
> So, we lose that point of view in developing our neutral point of view.
exactly, that is why we should just unban kos and give him another chance.
mike


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Re: [Foundation-l] Attack pages at Encyc. Dramatica

[Mike Dupont]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:44 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
> Encyc. Dramatica seems too take pride in creating attack pages regarding
> Wikipedians. Of course they are exposing themselves to libel suits but

wow, now I have an excuse to finally look at this page! I did not look
at the p0nr pages that were posted last time on this list, but this ED
might be worth reading. Up till now, only 15 year old hyperactive kids
talked about ED, but now it is serious business, it is on the WMFL!

thanks,
mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] Greg Kohs and Peter Damian

[Mike Dupont]

Hello,

>From what I have seen about Greg Kohs is that he does have some
interesting points to make, but I do see that he is jumping to
conclusions and does seem to have a biased viewpoint.

People want to make their own decisions and have enough information to
do that. We don't want to have important information deleted away
because it is uncomfortable.

Banning him makes it less likely for him to be heard, and these
interesting points which are worth considering are not heard my many
people : this is depriving people of critical information, that is not
fair to the people involved.

Just look at this article for example, it is quite interesting and
well written, and why should it not be visible to everyone on the
list.

http://www.examiner.com/wiki-edits-in-national/wikimedia-foundation-director-admits-to-sweetheart-contracts

Deleting and banning people who say things that are not comfortable,
that does make you look balanced and trustworthy.

The Wikimedia foundation should be able to stand up to such
accusations without resorting to gagging people, it just gives more
credit to the people being gagged and makes people wonder if there is
any merit in what they say.

This brings up my favorite subject of unneeded deletions versions needed ones.

Of course there is material that should be deleted that is hateful,
Spam etc, lets call that evil content.

But the articles that i wrote and my friends wrote that were deleted
did not fall into that category, they might have been just bad or not
notable.

We have had a constant struggle to keep our articles from being
deleted in a manner that we consider unfair. Additionally, the bad
content is lost and falls into the same category as evil content.

Also there should be more transparency on deleted material on the
Wikipedia itself, there is a lot of information that is being deleted
and gone forever without proper process or review.

In my eyes there is a connection between the two topics, the banning
of people and the deleting of information. Both are depriving people
from information that they want and need in an unfair manner.

Instead of articles about obscure events, things, and old places in
Kosovo you have a wikipedia full of the latest information about every
television show, is that what you really want?

I think there should be room for things in places that are not not
notable because they are not part of mainstream pop culture, we also
need to support the underdogs of Wikipedia even if they are not
mainstream, Mr Kohs definitely has something to say and I would like
like to hear it. And the Kosovars have something to say even if the
Serbs don't want to hear it. The Albanians have something to say even
if the Greeks don't want to hear it, etc. There are many cases of
people from Kosovo and Albania driven out of Wikipedia and depriving
the project of important information because they are not able to get
started and the contributions are so far way from the dominating
political viewpoint of the opposite side that they don't even get a
chance to be heard.

We need to make a way for these people to be heard and to moderate the
conflicts better, that will make Wikipedia stronger and more robust.

thanks,
mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] Free culture?

[Mike Dupont]

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Michael Peel  wrote:
>
> On 19 Oct 2010, at 18:44, Mike Dupont wrote:
>
>>> I don't think we gain anything by providing a platform for Kohs campaign,
>>> as illustrated at
>>> http://www.mywikibiz.com/Top_10_Reasons_Not_to_Donate_to_Wikipedia
>>> against Wikipedia.
>>
>> Wow, this is very well written and interesting! please share more such
>> information.
>
> , I hope, given the sheer number of inaccuracies and misportrayals 
> in that document?


This page about wikipedias faults points to some concrete places to
help improve the quality of wikiepedia.
of course you have to take it all with a grain of salt,

I am just reviewing the wikia links right now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=2&target=http%3A%2F%2F*.wikia.com

For example, who added a link to wiki
http://water.wikia.com/wiki/Oil_sands is linked from How to Boil a
Frog ?
It is a link that is not obvious as how to value is added to wikipedia.

* David Dodge, Dan Woynillowicz & Chris Severson-Baker
[http://water.wikia.com/wiki/Oil_sands],

That page on wikia has some reference to an article from Woynillowicz
but does not justify the link, doe it?

mike

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Re: [Foundation-l] Free culture?

[Mike Dupont]

> I don't think we gain anything by providing a platform for Kohs campaign,
> as illustrated at
> http://www.mywikibiz.com/Top_10_Reasons_Not_to_Donate_to_Wikipedia
> against Wikipedia.

Wow, this is very well written and interesting! please share more such
information.

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