Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Philippe Beaudette]

On Aug 10, 2009, at 12:15 AM, Tisza Gergő wrote:

> Which begs the question: why was the central notice taken down when  
> there is
> still a day left?


It went down earlier than we expected.  It's back up, after a brief  
outage.

Philippe



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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Tisza Gergő]

phoebe ayers  writes:
> 
> ** Despite the election's importance, turnout is so far pretty
> pathetic, esp. from smaller wikis.

Which begs the question: why was the central notice taken down when there is
still a day left?


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Philippe Beaudette]

On Aug 9, 2009, at 4:15 PM, phoebe ayers wrote:

> On a general note, I for one greatly appreciate the Election
> Committee's efforts to get wide community participation in the Board
> elections**, even if the mailing could have gone more smoothly.
>
> On an even more general note, the constructive part of this
> conversation -- i.e. planning for the next election, and pointing out
> things to do next time -- is great. Where's the best place for posting
> "next-time" suggestions from this thread? Elections talk?***

Thank you on behalf of the committee for your kind words.

I've created a post-mortem topic at 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Board_elections/2009#Post_mortem

Philippe

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Marc Riddell]

> Thomas,
> 
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
>> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
>> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

on 8/9/09 5:15 PM, phoebe ayers at phoebe.w...@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> You think nothing of routinely filling up all of the list subscribers'
> inboxes with your opinions, as the top poster on Foundation-l.* But
> you are complaining here about one email, sent specifically to active
> and thus presumably interested members of Wikimedia projects reminding
> them about a single, important election? I find complaints about this
> being "spam" -- as if you can't handle one extra email about
> Wikimedia, when you clearly manage to get through hundreds of much
> less important missives on the mailing lists on a regular basis --
> pretty mindblowingly hypocritical.
> 
Yes!! Thank you Phoebe. This comment was long overdue!

Marc


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[phoebe ayers]

Thomas,

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

You think nothing of routinely filling up all of the list subscribers'
inboxes with your opinions, as the top poster on Foundation-l.* But
you are complaining here about one email, sent specifically to active
and thus presumably interested members of Wikimedia projects reminding
them about a single, important election? I find complaints about this
being "spam" -- as if you can't handle one extra email about
Wikimedia, when you clearly manage to get through hundreds of much
less important missives on the mailing lists on a regular basis --
pretty mindblowingly hypocritical.

On a general note, I for one greatly appreciate the Election
Committee's efforts to get wide community participation in the Board
elections**, even if the mailing could have gone more smoothly.

On an even more general note, the constructive part of this
conversation -- i.e. planning for the next election, and pointing out
things to do next time -- is great. Where's the best place for posting
"next-time" suggestions from this thread? Elections talk?***

-- phoebe

* http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2009-February/050149.html
** Despite the election's importance, turnout is so far pretty
pathetic, esp. from smaller wikis.
*** http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Board_elections

-- 
* I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
 gmail.com *

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/8/9 Ray Saintonge :
> Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
>> Although I had already voted, I was not bothered by one tiny email reminding 
>> me that I was eligible to vote. Thanks guys, hopefully this will get people 
>> to the polls.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> It didn't bother me either even though it came after I voted.  As far as
> spam goes this was softball, and it's impossible to screen out to the
> extent that some people want.
>
> I only received the message once, but considerably more messages
> complaining about it.

And even more messages like the one you just sent that add absolutely
nothing to the conversation and just say "me too".

It is not impossible to remove people who have already voted from the
list of people to be reminded, it has been done in previous years.

Why wasn't all this planned in advance? There should have been a
timetable with a specific date on which an email would be sent out and
there should have been a specific earlier date at which the mailing
list would be completed by. (People that voted inbetween those dates
may get a redundant email, a line should be added to the end
apologising for that.) These elections have been run several times
before, basic stuff like sending out emails shouldn't be cobbled
together at the last minute.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Ray Saintonge]

Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
> Although I had already voted, I was not bothered by one tiny email reminding 
> me that I was eligible to vote. Thanks guys, hopefully this will get people 
> to the polls. 
>
>
>
>   
It didn't bother me either even though it came after I voted.  As far as 
spam goes this was softball, and it's impossible to screen out to the 
extent that some people want. 

I only received the message once, but considerably more messages 
complaining about it.

Ec

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Luna]

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 3:43 AM, Bod Notbod  wrote:

> OK, *ideally* an email wouldn't be sent to those who have already
> voted. But it's really not as if Wikimedia is a persistent spammer.
> I'd let it slide.


Yeah, that's about where I sit on it. :) I wouldn't have said anything, if
it weren't already under discussion -- I didn't mind it one bit.

While I am tabulating suggestions, looks like one decent idea got lost in
another thread, forked from this one:

   - Consider excluding blocked accounts from the email list.

-Luna
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Bod Notbod]

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Luna wrote:

> Indeed. I had already voted, and got an email, but I'm not going to do any
> complaining. It's one email, for Pete's sake.

The irony is that those who dislike having received an email about the
election have now received about 30 more due to reporting this issue.

OK, *ideally* an email wouldn't be sent to those who have already
voted. But it's really not as if Wikimedia is a persistent spammer.
I'd let it slide.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Luna]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Steven Walling wrote:

> I already voted when I got my email, and I didn't think it was spam. I
> smiled at the fact that Wikimedia is making sure everyone who can vote has
> the opportunity.
>

Indeed. I had already voted, and got an email, but I'm not going to do any
complaining. It's one email, for Pete's sake.

That said, I have seen some good suggestions in this thread, that might be
helpful for next year:

   - Consider excluding accounts that have already voted, or sending them a
   different email.
   - Consider excluding bot accounts
   - If possible, try to get these out a bit sooner. I know it's hard.

Either way, thanks are due to those who handled this. So, thank you.

-Luna
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

Milos Rancic wrote:

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Kwan Ting Chan wrote:

Just out of interest, how many such email did you get last year because I'm
sure I only (try to) send one email to each email address (that hadn't voted
already).


* One email to myself (mill...@gmail.com). I voted first day and a
couple of days ago once more [with the same account, of course :] ].
* One email to my main bot account Millbot to another/old email
address (mill...@users.sourceforge.net). This bot has global account
and bot flag on at least a couple of Wikinews editions (it maintains
[[Template:Statistics]] there).
* One email to my Wikinews bot Millbot-Beta, which email is
mill...@gmail.com, too. It doesn't have bot flag.


*Point to "last year" from original message* ;-)

I wasn't responsible for this year email, but was last year.

KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Kwan Ting Chan wrote:
> Just out of interest, how many such email did you get last year because I'm
> sure I only (try to) send one email to each email address (that hadn't voted
> already).

* One email to myself (mill...@gmail.com). I voted first day and a
couple of days ago once more [with the same account, of course :] ].
* One email to my main bot account Millbot to another/old email
address (mill...@users.sourceforge.net). This bot has global account
and bot flag on at least a couple of Wikinews editions (it maintains
[[Template:Statistics]] there).
* One email to my Wikinews bot Millbot-Beta, which email is
mill...@gmail.com, too. It doesn't have bot flag.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

Milos Rancic wrote:

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:00 AM, Casey Brown wrote:

Bot accounts will probably be excluded in the future, since they are
explicitly not allowed to vote.


I think that it shouldn't be so complicated to do one "sort -u" over
emails. As I said, some of my bots don't have bot flags and because of
that they can't be treated as bots automatically. However, I am using
just one email address for all of them. Probably, there is number of
similar cases with well intentioned sock-puppet owners.


Just out of interest, how many such email did you get last year because 
I'm sure I only (try to) send one email to each email address (that 
hadn't voted already).


KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:00 AM, Casey Brown wrote:
> Bot accounts will probably be excluded in the future, since they are
> explicitly not allowed to vote.

I think that it shouldn't be so complicated to do one "sort -u" over
emails. As I said, some of my bots don't have bot flags and because of
that they can't be treated as bots automatically. However, I am using
just one email address for all of them. Probably, there is number of
similar cases with well intentioned sock-puppet owners.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Casey Brown]

Keep in mind that this election didn't go off as well as it could
have, we all know that, the important thing was getting the e-mails
out before the vote ended.  It was already too late, so it's better to
get more people notified than less.  It wasn't perfect, last year was
better because there was more time to tweak everything. :-)

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> That means that automatic emails about voting should be fixed:
> * We should have a possibility to connect accounts. My bot is my
> account and I would like to manipulate with all of my data from one
> interface, not by logging out from one account and logging in to
> another.

Bot accounts will probably be excluded in the future, since they are
explicitly not allowed to vote.

> * Voters who already voted shouldn't get that message.

Yes, there was an issue this year I think.  Remembering back to last
year, this wasn't an issue, so it probably won't be for future years.

> * Voters should be able to opt-out from this kind of messages for the
> next elections, referendums etc.

This has existed and is linked in all the e-mails (and translations):


-- 
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Milos Rancic]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

Ah, I may imagine how your reaction would be in my case :) I have a
number of bots, of which some don't have bot flags (because it is just
an account, because it is not a bot which should have a bot flag or
because it has bot flags just partially). So, until now, I've got one
email for myself (even thou I voted) and three for my bots :)

That means that automatic emails about voting should be fixed:
* We should have a possibility to connect accounts. My bot is my
account and I would like to manipulate with all of my data from one
interface, not by logging out from one account and logging in to
another.
* Voters who already voted shouldn't get that message.
* Voters should be able to opt-out from this kind of messages for the
next elections, referendums etc.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

Pavlo Shevelo wrote:

The list of users who have voted is available at
https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:SecurePoll/list/17


Some names/nicks there appeared crossed (by horizontal  line).
Would somebody please explain what does it mean?


Those that are grey out (or at least slightly lighter colour that one 
can barely see the difference of) are votes that have been superseded by 
a later vote from the same account. The last vote cast is the one that's 
counted.


The crossed off votes are votes that have been manually struck off by 
the election committee. For example when the same person have voted from 
multiple accounts.


KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Philippe Beaudette]

Generally speaking, that means that the user appears to have voted  
more than once, or from more than one username on more than one  
project.  The line denotes that vote has been struck.

Philippe


On Aug 8, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Pavlo Shevelo wrote:

>> The list of users who have voted is available at
>> https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:SecurePoll/list/17
>
> Some names/nicks there appeared crossed (by horizontal  line).
> Would somebody please explain what does it mean?
>
>
> 2009/8/8 Jon Harald Søby :
>> 2009/8/8 John Vandenberg 
>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM, private musings>> >
>>> wrote:
 No silly - it's a mistake! (don't be so grumpy. - or be aware  
 that
>>> this
 could come across as grumpy at least)

 I recall the grumbles when Greg sent something out last year or  
 the year
 before, and feel the same about this as that - the folk sending  
 the email
 are using an imperfect system, but overall it's worth it - I'm  
 hope that
 those feeling personally affronted by such an approach can take  
 solace in
 something or other, and just generally relax a notch or two :-)
>>>
>>> Oh, I am not affronted.
>>>
>>> I am thrilled that the election committee decided that computer
>>> engineers should be rewarded for their ingenuity by allowing their
>>> fine opinion to be counted twice.
>>>
>>> This motivates me to write more bots for next year.
>>>
>>> p.s. can the election committee ensure that votes from bot accounts
>>> are not counted??
>>>
>>> p.p.s. if I can have another free vote, I will gladly write a bot to
>>> help the election committee to discount bot votes...
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Vandenberg
>>>
>>> ___
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>> The list of users who have voted is available at
>> https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:SecurePoll/list/ 
>> 17 , and I
>> know the committee will be more than happy for any help received. ;-)
>>
>> --
>> Jon Harald Søby
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Pavlo Shevelo]

> The list of users who have voted is available at
> https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:SecurePoll/list/17

Some names/nicks there appeared crossed (by horizontal  line).
Would somebody please explain what does it mean?


2009/8/8 Jon Harald Søby :
> 2009/8/8 John Vandenberg 
>
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM, private musings
>> wrote:
>> > No silly - it's a mistake! (don't be so grumpy. - or be aware that
>> this
>> > could come across as grumpy at least)
>> >
>> > I recall the grumbles when Greg sent something out last year or the year
>> > before, and feel the same about this as that - the folk sending the email
>> > are using an imperfect system, but overall it's worth it - I'm hope that
>> > those feeling personally affronted by such an approach can take solace in
>> > something or other, and just generally relax a notch or two :-)
>>
>> Oh, I am not affronted.
>>
>> I am thrilled that the election committee decided that computer
>> engineers should be rewarded for their ingenuity by allowing their
>> fine opinion to be counted twice.
>>
>> This motivates me to write more bots for next year.
>>
>> p.s. can the election committee ensure that votes from bot accounts
>> are not counted??
>>
>> p.p.s. if I can have another free vote, I will gladly write a bot to
>> help the election committee to discount bot votes...
>>
>> --
>> John Vandenberg
>>
>> ___
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
> The list of users who have voted is available at
> https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:SecurePoll/list/17 , and I
> know the committee will be more than happy for any help received. ;-)
>
> --
> Jon Harald Søby
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/8/8 Geoffrey Plourde :
> Although I had already voted, I was not bothered by one tiny email reminding 
> me that I was eligible to vote. Thanks guys, hopefully this will get people 
> to the polls.

If it was difficult to avoid emailing people that have already voted,
I wouldn't mind, but I don't believe it is difficult (it's been done
in previous years), so why not do it?

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Geoffrey Plourde]

Although I had already voted, I was not bothered by one tiny email reminding me 
that I was eligible to vote. Thanks guys, hopefully this will get people to the 
polls. 





From: Casey Brown 
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List 
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 9:57:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

"telling me I am eligible" and "untargetted mass e-mails" don't really
make sense together, do they?  Also, although you're only getting one
e-mail once per year (will be every two years), you're free to opt-out
(there are instructions in the e-mail you received).

/me wonders why you wouldn't just hit reply to the e-mail and send
this message to people who actually can do something about it, rather
than foundation-l.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Meno 25 wrote:
> and also please don't send e-mails to bot accounts.
>

Yes, that's a good point.  It seems this was an error this time around
and they'll probably remember to leave those ones out next time.
(Hopefully we'll have people writing up a "how-to" page for future
years.)

--
Casey Brown (who is not an election committee member, hence the third person)
Cbrown1023

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/8/8 Casey Brown :
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
>> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
>> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.
>
> "telling me I am eligible" and "untargetted mass e-mails" don't really
> make sense together, do they?  Also, although you're only getting one
> e-mail once per year (will be every two years), you're free to opt-out
> (there are instructions in the e-mail you received).

Ok, "insufficiently targetted" then. Not emailing people that have
already voted seems obvious to me and should be very easy to check.

> /me wonders why you wouldn't just hit reply to the e-mail and send
> this message to people who actually can do something about it, rather
> than foundation-l.

I'm used to mass emailings not having working reply-to's set. Also,
sending it here should reduce the number of duplicate emails they
receive since other people will know the point has already been made.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[John Vandenberg]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Vandenberg wrote:
> Oh, I am not affronted.
>
> I am thrilled that the election committee decided that computer
> engineers should be rewarded for their ingenuity by allowing their
> fine opinion to be counted twice.
>
> This motivates me to write more bots for next year.

All of my Christmas' have come at once.

I just received notification that "Jayvdb" is also asked to vote.

--
John Vandenbeg

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Jon Harald Søby]

2009/8/8 John Vandenberg 

> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM, private musings
> wrote:
> > No silly - it's a mistake! (don't be so grumpy. - or be aware that
> this
> > could come across as grumpy at least)
> >
> > I recall the grumbles when Greg sent something out last year or the year
> > before, and feel the same about this as that - the folk sending the email
> > are using an imperfect system, but overall it's worth it - I'm hope that
> > those feeling personally affronted by such an approach can take solace in
> > something or other, and just generally relax a notch or two :-)
>
> Oh, I am not affronted.
>
> I am thrilled that the election committee decided that computer
> engineers should be rewarded for their ingenuity by allowing their
> fine opinion to be counted twice.
>
> This motivates me to write more bots for next year.
>
> p.s. can the election committee ensure that votes from bot accounts
> are not counted??
>
> p.p.s. if I can have another free vote, I will gladly write a bot to
> help the election committee to discount bot votes...
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

The list of users who have voted is available at
https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:SecurePoll/list/17 , and I
know the committee will be more than happy for any help received. ;-)

-- 
Jon Harald Søby
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Philippe Beaudette]

Yes.  And are doing so.

Philippe


On Aug 8, 2009, at 2:42 AM, John Vandenberg wrote:

>
> p.s. can the election committee ensure that votes from bot accounts
> are not counted??


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Bod Notbod]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

Well, one good thing came out of it.

I didn't receive such an email which suddenly drove me to review my
preferences to find that I was still signed up with an ancient email
address I haven't used for many years.

Changed it now :o)

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[John Vandenberg]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Cormac Lawler wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:05 AM,  wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry you got an email that bothered you.  Trust me, we try to make
>> sure no one is bothered by them.  Sometimes people fall through the cracks,
>> and I'm sorry that was the case here and in a few other cases.
>
>
> I'm supposedly one who fell through the cracks. 
>
> Have to say though, I was impressed by being invited to vote in elections
> for the board, "which operates projects such as Wikiversity". I don't know
> how you can specify a person's main project in this script (nor do I
> need/want to know) - but just to give praise where praise is due. :-)

Well spotted!  I missed it.

The email to "John Vandenberg" mentioned "Wikipedia", but the email to
"JVbot" said "Wikisource".

My home wiki is metawiki, so I think it is using highest edit count to
pin me as a Wikipedian.

--
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

Cormac Lawler wrote:

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:05 AM,  wrote:


I'm sorry you got an email that bothered you.  Trust me, we try to make
sure no one is bothered by them.  Sometimes people fall through the cracks,
and I'm sorry that was the case here and in a few other cases.



I'm supposedly one who fell through the cracks. 

Have to say though, I was impressed by being invited to vote in elections
for the board, "which operates projects such as Wikiversity". I don't know
how you can specify a person's main project in this script (nor do I
need/want to know) - but just to give praise where praise is due. :-)



The list of eligible voters contain the internal database name &/or the 
url of the wiki the voter is from. It's a simple case of parsing that to 
personalise the email with the main project name. :-)


KTC

--
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- Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Huib!]

Hello,

As far as I know the email users function doesn't show the emailadres to 
people so you could email me with that function and you still doesn't 
have my emailadres :)

Best regards,
Huib

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Cormac Lawler]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:05 AM,  wrote:

> I'm sorry you got an email that bothered you.  Trust me, we try to make
> sure no one is bothered by them.  Sometimes people fall through the cracks,
> and I'm sorry that was the case here and in a few other cases.


I'm supposedly one who fell through the cracks. 

Have to say though, I was impressed by being invited to vote in elections
for the board, "which operates projects such as Wikiversity". I don't know
how you can specify a person's main project in this script (nor do I
need/want to know) - but just to give praise where praise is due. :-)

Cormac
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

Huib! wrote:

Hello,

Aren't we working to wrong way, I think it should be better to let 
people opt-in, because we didn't release our e-mail addresses for this 
kind of spam. I use different emails for private / mailinglist use and I 
didn't give permission to use my private email.


Can I just point out the email address concerned was supplied by you to 
Wikimedia Foundation, where your account's preference is set "Enable 
e-mail from other users".


I'm not saying only people where that is set was sent email, and no 
people where that is not set (i.e. email on record only for password 
recovery) were not sent. However, in your particular case, I or anyone 
else for that matter could just as easily send you the email via the 
Commons interface and it would had be no different.


Its kind of stupid that this email isn't send out when the election 
started, but is send when a lot of people already voted, and its 
unneeded now so its spam.


It's unfortunate this year, those that have already voted received the 
email. Obviously it should be noted so it doesn't happens in the future 
(i.e. in 2 years time). But there are should a lot of people who is able 
to vote but haven't voted, and it wouldn't be spam to send them this email.


KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

Philippe Beaudette wrote:

Yeah, that one's noted for the post-mortem.



I'm going to add some notes for "future generation" that send this in 2
years time based on my experience sending this last year (and also
thinking about it this year) before I forget. I'm sure this year's
committee & Werdna will have their own note to add.

(Note: this is not a list of what haven't been done, but what should be
considered for someone starting anew.)

* Make sure the committee argues on how & who the emails will be sent
early on, and not still wondering about it 4 days before the end of
voting

* Send those emails somewhere near the start of voting, not 3 days
before the end... ;)

* Given a list of all the eligible voters from the start of the
election, remove all belonging to the same user (think SUL), remove and
leave only primary account for non-unified account with the same email
address. Remove in advance, or check and remove in real time all
accounts marked as bot & blocked. Remove all those on the
[[meta:Wikimedia nomail list]].

* Take snapshot of all those that have voted at start of email run, and
remove from email list.

In terms of the actual message:
* Translate the email subject as well as the main body text.

* Translate the the string "{Year} Board Election Committee" or similar
and use it as the From header, and at the end of the the body text.

* Have a table of all active projects in their local name instead of
just using the English version.

Hope that helps anyone reading this in 2 years time. :D

KTC

/me wait 2 years to see if it makes any difference

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine




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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

John Vandenberg wrote:

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM, private musings wrote:

No silly - it's a mistake! (don't be so grumpy. - or be aware that this
could come across as grumpy at least)

I recall the grumbles when Greg sent something out last year or the year
before, and feel the same about this as that - the folk sending the email
are using an imperfect system, but overall it's worth it - I'm hope that
those feeling personally affronted by such an approach can take solace in
something or other, and just generally relax a notch or two :-)


Oh, I am not affronted.

I am thrilled that the election committee decided that computer
engineers should be rewarded for their ingenuity by allowing their
fine opinion to be counted twice.

This motivates me to write more bots for next year.

p.s. can the election committee ensure that votes from bot accounts
are not counted??

p.p.s. if I can have another free vote, I will gladly write a bot to
help the election committee to discount bot votes...


The election software should automatically prevent an account flagged as 
bot from voting in the first place. The committee then have the task of 
manually vetting the caste votes to ensure only one vote is 
submitted/counted by each human.


KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[John Vandenberg]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM, private musings wrote:
> No silly - it's a mistake! (don't be so grumpy. - or be aware that this
> could come across as grumpy at least)
>
> I recall the grumbles when Greg sent something out last year or the year
> before, and feel the same about this as that - the folk sending the email
> are using an imperfect system, but overall it's worth it - I'm hope that
> those feeling personally affronted by such an approach can take solace in
> something or other, and just generally relax a notch or two :-)

Oh, I am not affronted.

I am thrilled that the election committee decided that computer
engineers should be rewarded for their ingenuity by allowing their
fine opinion to be counted twice.

This motivates me to write more bots for next year.

p.s. can the election committee ensure that votes from bot accounts
are not counted??

p.p.s. if I can have another free vote, I will gladly write a bot to
help the election committee to discount bot votes...

--
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Kwan Ting Chan]

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

Hoi,
This is a huge improvement over the last election where not all projects
were targeted for this type of mail. As a result there is less bias in the
system. So you can opt out if you do not want to receive an e-mail for the
next election.


Huh? All eligible voters who hadn't voted by the time I took a snapshot
of the voted list got the same email last year. In fact, a small number
of people accidentally got more than one I think because I didn't do a
very good job of making sure the script didn't time out and or keeping
track of exactly how far down the email list I got to.

Are you thinking of the year before (2007) when a candidate send out a
email to a selected number of users?

KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine



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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[private musings]

No silly - it's a mistake! (don't be so grumpy. - or be aware that this
could come across as grumpy at least)

I recall the grumbles when Greg sent something out last year or the year
before, and feel the same about this as that - the folk sending the email
are using an imperfect system, but overall it's worth it - I'm hope that
those feeling personally affronted by such an approach can take solace in
something or other, and just generally relax a notch or two :-)

cheers,

Peter,
PM.



On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:58 PM, John Vandenberg  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Robert Rohde wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 AM, John Vandenberg
> wrote:
> >> I had forgotten that my bot gave me a second vote.
> >
> > Is that a joke?
>
> My bot, which has a bot flag on two projects, was sent an email asking
> it to vote.
>
> Is that a joke?
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Huib!]

Hello,

Aren't we working to wrong way, I think it should be better to let 
people opt-in, because we didn't release our e-mail addresses for this 
kind of spam. I use different emails for private / mailinglist use and I 
didn't give permission to use my private email.

Its kind of stupid that this email isn't send out when the election 
started, but is send when a lot of people already voted, and its 
unneeded now so its spam.

But its very good to know that my three bots can vote to, if the 
election commitee sends me a email that the bots can vote, I'm sure they 
are really allowed right? :P


Best regards,

Huib Laurens

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[John Vandenberg]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Robert Rohde wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 AM, John Vandenberg wrote:
>> I had forgotten that my bot gave me a second vote.
>
> Is that a joke?

My bot, which has a bot flag on two projects, was sent an email asking
it to vote.

Is that a joke?

--
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Robert Rohde]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 AM, John Vandenberg wrote:
> I had forgotten that my bot gave me a second vote.

Is that a joke?

-Robert Rohde

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[John Vandenberg]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Meno 25 wrote:
> and also please don't send e-mails to bot accounts.

I found that email quite helpful.

I had forgotten that my bot gave me a second vote.

--
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Philippe Beaudette]

Yeah, that one's noted for the post-mortem.

Philippe


On Aug 8, 2009, at 12:47 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Gerard
> Meijssen wrote:
>> Hoi,
>> This is a huge improvement over the last election where not all  
>> projects
>> were targeted for this type of mail. As a result there is less bias  
>> in the
>> system. So you can opt out if you do not want to receive an e-mail  
>> for the
>> next election.
>>
>> Iit is a huge improvement to have an e-mail by the organisers of the
>> election over someone who does because he can and has thinks it a  
>> good idea.
>> This is very much a friendly nudge to go and do your democratic  
>> duty because
>> you can.
>
> Although it's not an improvement in that its very close to the
> election and the rate of response to the mail appeared to lag several
> days in a prior election.
>
> A lot of people are going to notice the mail next week and be annoyed
> that they were left out.
>
> Someone should make a note of that for the future.  My rule of thumb
> for any notification procedure on Wikipedia, based on meetup and other
> events, is that one week is required to even reach a majority of the
> eventual targets and that two is much better. Sufficient notice is
> important—  Especially when responding to the notice is something that
> may require reading a half meg of text or so.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Gregory Maxwell]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Gerard
Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> This is a huge improvement over the last election where not all projects
> were targeted for this type of mail. As a result there is less bias in the
> system. So you can opt out if you do not want to receive an e-mail for the
> next election.
>
> Iit is a huge improvement to have an e-mail by the organisers of the
> election over someone who does because he can and has thinks it a good idea.
> This is very much a friendly nudge to go and do your democratic duty because
> you can.

Although it's not an improvement in that its very close to the
election and the rate of response to the mail appeared to lag several
days in a prior election.

A lot of people are going to notice the mail next week and be annoyed
that they were left out.

Someone should make a note of that for the future.  My rule of thumb
for any notification procedure on Wikipedia, based on meetup and other
events, is that one week is required to even reach a majority of the
eventual targets and that two is much better. Sufficient notice is
important—  Especially when responding to the notice is something that
may require reading a half meg of text or so.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
This is a huge improvement over the last election where not all projects
were targeted for this type of mail. As a result there is less bias in the
system. So you can opt out if you do not want to receive an e-mail for the
next election.

Iit is a huge improvement to have an e-mail by the organisers of the
election over someone who does because he can and has thinks it a good idea.
This is very much a friendly nudge to go and do your democratic duty because
you can.
Thanks,
 Gerard

PS did you do your democratic duty ?

2009/8/8 Thomas Dalton 

> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Steven Walling]

I already voted when I got my email, and I didn't think it was spam. I
smiled at the fact that Wikimedia is making sure everyone who can vote has
the opportunity.
Steven

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:05 PM,  wrote:

> Thomas,
>
> I'm sorry you got an email that bothered you.  Trust me, we try to make
> sure no one is bothered by them.  Sometimes people fall through the cracks,
> and I'm sorry that was the case here and in a few other cases.
>
> We try - hard - to make sure that everyone who is entitled to vote knows
> it.  Hours of translator and committee time went into that email.  This
> morning, folks from the translation team worked hard to make the email as
> close as possible to perfect.  Werdna created and managed the scripts and
> other vols have worked hard to manage the (multi lingual) responses.  My
> point here is that we take suffrage very seriously and in our effort to make
> sure that EVERY qualified voter knew it, we didn't get it perfectly.
>
> If that's the trade off for getting increased turnout in this critical
> election, I hope you can understand.  I will sleep well tonight, knowing
> that we erred on the side of hitting TOO MANY voters, instead of not enough.
>
> For myself only, but quite sure others share my feelings,
> Philippe
>
>
> --Original Message--
> From: Thomas Dalton
> Sender: foundation-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> ReplyTo: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming
> Sent: Aug 7, 2009 10:40 PM
>
> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.
>
> ___
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>
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[pbeaudette]

Thomas,

I'm sorry you got an email that bothered you.  Trust me, we try to make sure no 
one is bothered by them.  Sometimes people fall through the cracks, and I'm 
sorry that was the case here and in a few other cases.

We try - hard - to make sure that everyone who is entitled to vote knows it.  
Hours of translator and committee time went into that email.  This morning, 
folks from the translation team worked hard to make the email as close as 
possible to perfect.  Werdna created and managed the scripts and other vols 
have worked hard to manage the (multi lingual) responses.  My point here is 
that we take suffrage very seriously and in our effort to make sure that EVERY 
qualified voter knew it, we didn't get it perfectly.

If that's the trade off for getting increased turnout in this critical 
election, I hope you can understand.  I will sleep well tonight, knowing that 
we erred on the side of hitting TOO MANY voters, instead of not enough.

For myself only, but quite sure others share my feelings,
Philippe


--Original Message--
From: Thomas Dalton
Sender: foundation-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
ReplyTo: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming
Sent: Aug 7, 2009 10:40 PM

I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

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Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Casey Brown]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

"telling me I am eligible" and "untargetted mass e-mails" don't really
make sense together, do they?  Also, although you're only getting one
e-mail once per year (will be every two years), you're free to opt-out
(there are instructions in the e-mail you received).

/me wonders why you wouldn't just hit reply to the e-mail and send
this message to people who actually can do something about it, rather
than foundation-l.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Meno 25 wrote:
> and also please don't send e-mails to bot accounts.
>

Yes, that's a good point.  It seems this was an error this time around
and they'll probably remember to leave those ones out next time.
(Hopefully we'll have people writing up a "how-to" page for future
years.)

--
Casey Brown (who is not an election committee member, hence the third person)
Cbrown1023

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Re: [Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Meno 25]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

> I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
> board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
> untargetted mass emails - they are spam.
>
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and also please don't send e-mails to bot accounts.

--User:Meno25
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[Foundation-l] Board election spamming

[Thomas Dalton]

I have just received an email telling me I am eligible to vote in the
board elections when I have already voted. Please don't send
untargetted mass emails - they are spam.

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