Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Jimmy Xu xu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, These days at the Village Pump of zhwiki, many wikipedians are arguing about whether Wikimedia project should apply to the US Copyright Law that is where the servers were placed, or the local ones, for us, that is the P.R. of China Copyright Law. These thread came from a disagreement of fair-use text of news in article, so I'm willing to find some (kind of) official resolution. Thanks a lot. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 All projects must be compliant with US law. Many projects whose language lends itself to a particular national focus additionally work to be compliant with the national laws relevant to their target audience. The decision of whether or not to also try and follow national laws (e.g. Chinese law in your case) is left at the discretion of the individual wiki's community. So in short, you must comply with US copyright law. You have the option of further restricting content based on Chinese copyright laws, if your community so chooses. -Robert Rohde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
IANAL, but I suppose three things must be considered: - US law, where the servers are based - the country where a work originates - the country to which the wikipedian belongs. The US Laws will have to be followed as far as copyright is concerned, as the servers are in the US. The second thing is the country where a work originates. For example, in Germany there is panoramafreiheit, in some other countries there is not. When I make a photo in Germany, I can only publish that photo when i make it from a public raoad. German law does not grant me copyright on pictures of copyrighted items inside a museum/garden/house. When I am in Italy, different rules for my photos apply. As a dutch citizen, I must also comply with Dutch law. There are not very many differences between Dutch and US copyright laws, but there are some. I can not recall them now. In addition to copyright law, there may be other laws to consider. For example, if the publication if Hitlers Mein kampf is forbidden, I will not upload that text to wikibooks. I will leave that to someone else. i wish you well, teun spaans On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:38 AM, Jimmy Xu xu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, These days at the Village Pump of zhwiki, many wikipedians are arguing about whether Wikimedia project should apply to the US Copyright Law that is where the servers were placed, or the local ones, for us, that is the P.R. of China Copyright Law. These thread came from a disagreement of fair-use text of news in article, so I'm willing to find some (kind of) official resolution. Thanks a lot. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:38 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, These days at the Village Pump of zhwiki, many wikipedians are arguing about whether Wikimedia project should apply to the US Copyright Law that is where the servers were placed, or the local ones, for us, that is the P.R. of China Copyright Law. These thread came from a disagreement of fair-use text of news in article, so I'm willing to find some (kind of) official resolution. Thanks a lot. It will have to comply with US copyright law because of the location of the servers, however, it would be good to have a policy to adhere to local (in your case I would say Republic of China as well as People's Republic of China) law too. That way, copyright problems are avoided not only for the foundation, but also for the users (the people who edit Wikipedia) and the reusers (the people who use Wikipedia material as is allowed to them by to the GFDL (or SS-BY-SA) license. -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:28 AM, teun spaans teun.spaans at gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but I suppose three things must be considered: - US law, where the servers are based - the country where a work originates - the country to which the wikipedian belongs. Thanks, but there is still a problem: If these laws are under conflict, like the local law allows fair-use to some material but the US law doesn't, what should we do. I can't decide whether it should be marked as a copyright violation per US law or just being accepted per local ones? Thanks. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:28 AM, teun spaans teun.spaans at gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but I suppose three things must be considered: - US law, where the servers are based - the country where a work originates - the country to which the wikipedian belongs. Thanks, but there is still a problem: If these laws are under conflict, like the local law allows fair-use to some material but the US law doesn't, what should we do. I can't decide whether it should be marked as a copyright violation per US law or just being accepted per local ones? Thanks. In case the laws are in conflict, you should only allow that which is allowed by the laws of all countries which laws you follow. -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
What are examples of something which is fair use under chinese law but not under US law? goes to check the discussion In general you should not upload anything that violates US law. Additional standards are set by each community - in terms of free license v. fair use, whether an image is being used effectively on the project, c. SJ On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:49 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:28 AM, teun spaans teun.spaans at gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but I suppose three things must be considered: - US law, where the servers are based - the country where a work originates - the country to which the wikipedian belongs. Thanks, but there is still a problem: If these laws are under conflict, like the local law allows fair-use to some material but the US law doesn't, what should we do. I can't decide whether it should be marked as a copyright violation per US law or just being accepted per local ones? Thanks. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
So that is, due to P.R. of China Copyright Law, text that published in newspapers, periodicals, radio and TV stations and other media reported the news of the simple fact are not copyrighted. But I cannot find these exception in US Copyright Law. Maybe it's only because my English is not so good and I didn't caught it, maybe it's a possible conflict. And if so, can we use these text published in P.R. of China in Wikipedia as if they were in PD? And, the image now has no problem at all, everything causes by the text. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Samuel Kleinmeta...@gmail.com wrote: What are examples of something which is fair use under chinese law but not under US law? goes to check the discussion In general you should not upload anything that violates US law. Additional standards are set by each community - in terms of free license v. fair use, whether an image is being used effectively on the project, c. SJ On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:49 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy.wrk at gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:28 AM, teun spaans teun.spaans at gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but I suppose three things must be considered: - US law, where the servers are based - the country where a work originates - the country to which the wikipedian belongs. Thanks, but there is still a problem: If these laws are under conflict, like the local law allows fair-use to some material but the US law doesn't, what should we do. I can't decide whether it should be marked as a copyright violation per US law or just being accepted per local ones? Thanks. Jimmy_xu_wrk at zhwiki 06/25/2009 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
If PRC law says that factual statements published in PRC media cannot be copyrighted, then those statements may be available under a sort of PRC-PD license for anyone to use, including zh.wp -- it would not be a matter of fair use. Under PRC law, are statements of simple fact *published outside of PRC* copyrighted? I believe you should not use text whose authors/publishers expect them to be copyrighted, unless it is also fair use within US law. SJ On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: So that is, due to P.R. of China Copyright Law, text that published in newspapers, periodicals, radio and TV stations and other media reported the news of the simple fact are not copyrighted. But I cannot find these exception in US Copyright Law. Maybe it's only because my English is not so good and I didn't caught it, maybe it's a possible conflict. And if so, can we use these text published in P.R. of China in Wikipedia as if they were in PD? And, the image now has no problem at all, everything causes by the text. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Samuel Kleinmeta...@gmail.com wrote: What are examples of something which is fair use under chinese law but not under US law? goes to check the discussion In general you should not upload anything that violates US law. Additional standards are set by each community - in terms of free license v. fair use, whether an image is being used effectively on the project, c. SJ On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:49 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy.wrk at gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:28 AM, teun spaans teun.spaans at gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but I suppose three things must be considered: - US law, where the servers are based - the country where a work originates - the country to which the wikipedian belongs. Thanks, but there is still a problem: If these laws are under conflict, like the local law allows fair-use to some material but the US law doesn't, what should we do. I can't decide whether it should be marked as a copyright violation per US law or just being accepted per local ones? Thanks. Jimmy_xu_wrk at zhwiki 06/25/2009 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 15:01, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: So that is, due to P.R. of China Copyright Law, text that published in newspapers, periodicals, radio and TV stations and other media reported the news of the simple fact are not copyrighted. But I cannot find these exception in US Copyright Law. Maybe it's only because my If it is legal to use them by PRC laws (and the material was authored in PRC) then it is legal to use anywhere in the world. At least I'd believe so, because this is the same case as US governmental materials, soviet era stuff and like, but IANAL. -- byte-byte, grin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
2009/6/25 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com: What are examples of something which is fair use under chinese law but not under US law? goes to check the discussion http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Copyright_Law_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China_(2001)#Section_4_Limitations_on_Rights I believe (10) is not very effectively protected in the US, but I could be wrong. (3) is quite a common provision, but (4) takes it further than usual. (I really like the spirit of nr. 11, but I can see how it's not really applicable here...) -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
Yeah. We ARE discussing (4) at zhwiki, but it seems to be resolved per preceding reply. These laws are confusing, huh~ Thanks a lot. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: 2009/6/25 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com: What are examples of something which is fair use under chinese law but not under US law? goes to check the discussion http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Copyright_Law_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China_(2001)#Section_4_Limitations_on_Rights I believe (10) is not very effectively protected in the US, but I could be wrong. (3) is quite a common provision, but (4) takes it further than usual. (I really like the spirit of nr. 11, but I can see how it's not really applicable here...) -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andre Engels wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:38 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, These days at the Village Pump of zhwiki, many wikipedians are arguing about whether Wikimedia project should apply to the US Copyright Law that is where the servers were placed, or the local ones, for us, that is the P.R. of China Copyright Law. These thread came from a disagreement of fair-use text of news in article, so I'm willing to find some (kind of) official resolution. Thanks a lot. It will have to comply with US copyright law because of the location of the servers, however, it would be good to have a policy to adhere to local (in your case I would say Republic of China as well as People's Republic of China) law too. That way, copyright problems are avoided not only for the foundation, but also for the users (the people who edit Wikipedia) and the reusers (the people who use Wikipedia material as is allowed to them by to the GFDL (or SS-BY-SA) license Let's not forget Singapore, where Chinese is the most frequently spoken language at home. Cary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpDmn8ACgkQyQg4JSymDYlKRQCg1O2Jfr7pQ0HinJMKrKRPOzPI rLIAnR26EHiiVGc+citUTSU5bUJ1/AcV =VgOu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
Yeah, of course. But if the material is in PD in P.R. China, it is in PD all over the world. So I think that would not be a big deal. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Cary Bass c...@wikimedia.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andre Engels wrote: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:38 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, These days at the Village Pump of zhwiki, many wikipedians are arguing about whether Wikimedia project should apply to the US Copyright Law that is where the servers were placed, or the local ones, for us, that is the P.R. of China Copyright Law. These thread came from a disagreement of fair-use text of news in article, so I'm willing to find some (kind of) official resolution. Thanks a lot. It will have to comply with US copyright law because of the location of the servers, however, it would be good to have a policy to adhere to local (in your case I would say Republic of China as well as People's Republic of China) law too. That way, copyright problems are avoided not only for the foundation, but also for the users (the people who edit Wikipedia) and the reusers (the people who use Wikipedia material as is allowed to them by to the GFDL (or SS-BY-SA) license Let's not forget Singapore, where Chinese is the most frequently spoken language at home. Cary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpDmn8ACgkQyQg4JSymDYlKRQCg1O2Jfr7pQ0HinJMKrKRPOzPI rLIAnR26EHiiVGc+citUTSU5bUJ1/AcV =VgOu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:01 AM, Jimmy Xuxu.jimmy@gmail.com wrote: So that is, due to P.R. of China Copyright Law, text that published in newspapers, periodicals, radio and TV stations and other media reported the news of the simple fact are not copyrighted. But I cannot find these exception in US Copyright Law. Maybe it's only because my English is not so good and I didn't caught it, maybe it's a possible conflict. And if so, can we use these text published in P.R. of China in Wikipedia as if they were in PD? And, the image now has no problem at all, everything causes by the text. Simple facts are not eligible for US copyright. Only creative expression is protected under US case law. One of the more important Supreme Court cases dealing with this is: [[Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service]] -Robert Rohde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
2009/6/25 Jimmy Xu xu.jimmy@gmail.com: And here is the issue that in Berne Convention Article 2 (8), it says The protection of this Convention shall not apply to news of the day or to miscellaneous facts having the character of mere items of press information. So whether these kind of stuffs can be used as if they were in public domain? Or some other steps has to be taken. Here's my interpretation of this: there are two sides to copyright, the concept and the expression - the idea, and the way you write it. If you've written a novel, you have both kinds of copyright. I can't tell the same story by changing all the words without infringing - the idea is still the same. If you're just writing about simple factual information, however, then you don't have copyright in the underlying facts - but you still have copyright in the way you write about them. So, a newspaper can't claim copyright on the concept of one of its stories - I can't copyright the idea of writing stories about an election! - but the actual text of them is still copyrighted, so we can't simply reprint copies of it as though it were public domain. Additionally, if so, that means for a news, the five Ws are not eligible but the comment by the author is eligible for copyright. Am I right? Thanks. I'd extend comment to be the words they've actually written, but that's about it. They can't stop you paraphrasing or rewriting it. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Issues about Copyright
Hello all, These days at the Village Pump of zhwiki, many wikipedians are arguing about whether Wikimedia project should apply to the US Copyright Law that is where the servers were placed, or the local ones, for us, that is the P.R. of China Copyright Law. These thread came from a disagreement of fair-use text of news in article, so I'm willing to find some (kind of) official resolution. Thanks a lot. jimmy_xu_...@zhwiki 06/25/2009 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
