Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[David Gerard]

2009/3/4 Jim Redmond :

> I'm working on that now.  I've half a mind to increase the point size on the
> phrase "Wikipedia has no editorial board" and put it in blink tags; if
> people could actually grok that, then much of the rest of that text could
> become unnecessary.


I just put  tags around it in both places ;-)

I'm working on the assumption that someone with a bad article about
them is upset and angry and won't read clearly - large print, simple
directions. All the pages still feel too long. They could be shorter
if there was a Special:Contact page set up (wtih nice dropdowns, etc)
- people are used to those. (Offer an "or email directly to this
address" link of course ;-) But OTRS' load would go *way up*.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Jim Redmond]

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 15:52, David Gerard  wrote:

> > The final page for people who have a crappy article about themselves
> > still needs severe tightening and organisation, though with a mind to
> > not causing trouble for OTRS volunteers, who after all are the ones
> > getting the crapflood. Could an OTRS BLP queue handler please have a
> > go at giving that page a severe Strunk & Whitening?
>

I'm working on that now.  I've half a mind to increase the point size on the
phrase "Wikipedia has no editorial board" and put it in blink tags; if
people could actually grok that, then much of the rest of that text could
become unnecessary.

(BTW, I like the banner on Help:Contents.)

-- 
Jim Redmond
jredm...@gmail.com
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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[David Gerard]

2009/3/4 David Gerard :

> The final page for people who have a crappy article about themselves
> still needs severe tightening and organisation, though with a mind to
> not causing trouble for OTRS volunteers, who after all are the ones
> getting the crapflood. Could an OTRS BLP queue handler please have a
> go at giving that page a severe Strunk & Whitening?


The page is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_error_%28from_subject%29


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[David Gerard]

2009/3/3 Birgitte SB :

> I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false 
> positives that might come from a "report a problem"  link.  I imagine that 
> all these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the sidebar 
> while looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that page saying 
> "If you have a problem with information about yourself that is on Wikipedia 
> report it here."  And send it to a specific email address.


I mooted this on [[Help talk:Contents]] yesterday morning, Quiddity
made some suggestions (and we both tweaked the page text somewhat) and
I've just put a banner on the page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents

I've tightened up the article problem page, per Strunk & White ("Omit
needless words."):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem&diff=275017366&oldid=266548901

The final page for people who have a crappy article about themselves
still needs severe tightening and organisation, though with a mind to
not causing trouble for OTRS volunteers, who after all are the ones
getting the crapflood. Could an OTRS BLP queue handler please have a
go at giving that page a severe Strunk & Whitening?


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Jussi-Ville Heiskanen]

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> I doubt that it is worth our while to discuss Wikia policies.

I vehemently disagree. I see no reason to assume Wikia
have learned nothing that wikimedia could learn from.

I do admit most things they focus on will not translate
to wikimedia, but still cross-pollination always enriches
the gene-pool.


Yours,

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen


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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Michael Snow]

David Gerard wrote:
> Michael, is there any reason not to put Anthony on moderation?
>   
Actually, the problem is the thread, which is a complaint about Wikia 
practices that is off-topic for this list. Anthony didn't start the 
discussion, it's the thread that should be moderated.

--Michael Snow

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[David Gerard]

2009/3/3 Anthony :

> Really?  You think Wikia's lawyers told Wikia's management that their
> "strong belief is that [Wikia] can make *suggestions* to the community about
> what content policy should be, but that *it must remain up to the community
> whether to adopt such policies and how to enforce them*"?  If so, I'd love
> to hear from someone at Wikia about it, as well as why and to what extent
> they chose not to follow it.
> Or do you think the advice gave to "your managers" is different from that
> which he gave in this recent email?


Stop trolling.

Michael, is there any reason not to put Anthony on moderation?


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Anthony]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

> 2009/3/3 Anthony :
> > Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to
> > get involved in enforcing policy violations?
>
> I think paranoia is a significant part of what lawyers are paid for.


See, it was a neutral term I was using after all!

I expect Wikia's lawyers have given their managers the same advice as
> Mike has given ours, although the respective managements may have
> different ideas about what is and isn't an acceptable risk (that isn't
> generally up to the lawyers).


Really?  You think Wikia's lawyers told Wikia's management that their
"strong belief is that [Wikia] can make *suggestions* to the community about
what content policy should be, but that *it must remain up to the community
whether to adopt such policies and how to enforce them*"?  If so, I'd love
to hear from someone at Wikia about it, as well as why and to what extent
they chose not to follow it.

Or do you think the advice gave to "your managers" is different from that
which he gave in this recent email?
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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/3 Anthony :
> Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to
> get involved in enforcing policy violations?

I think paranoia is a significant part of what lawyers are paid for. I
expect Wikia's lawyers have given their managers the same advice as
Mike has given ours, although the respective managements may have
different ideas about what is and isn't an acceptable risk (that isn't
generally up to the lawyers).

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Geoffrey Plourde]

We should have him teach a Wikiversity class on how to be like Mike! 





From: Gerard Meijssen 
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List 
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 7:30:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

Hoi,
I doubt that it is worth our while to discuss Wikia policies.. certainly
with loaded questions like this one. Then again, it might be considered a
compliment .. "as paranoid as Mike Godwin" .. I like Mike :)
Thanks,
 GerardM

2009/3/3 Anthony 

> Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to
> get involved in enforcing policy violations?
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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
I doubt that it is worth our while to discuss Wikia policies.. certainly
with loaded questions like this one. Then again, it might be considered a
compliment .. "as paranoid as Mike Godwin" .. I like Mike :)
Thanks,
 GerardM

2009/3/3 Anthony 

> Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to
> get involved in enforcing policy violations?
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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Anthony]

Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to
get involved in enforcing policy violations?
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[Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Gregory Kohs]

*Angela* beesley at gmail.com said:

+

Problem Reports are used quite successfully on Wikia.

+

Yes, I used the convenient Wikia links to report several problems with Green
Wikia articles plagiarizing copyrighted content (verbatim) from other
environmental websites across the Internet.  I then tried to assist Wikia by
deleting or earmarking those pages that were in violation.  Green Wikia's
very own "Angies" then "quite successfully" blocked my Wikia user account
for one year, for "‎Intimidating behaviour/harassment".  I look forward to
helping Wikia find more copyright violations when my block expires later in
September 2009.

Gregory Kohs
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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Angela]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Robert Rohde  wrote:
> I'm breaking this specific idea out of the main thread, in order to focus on 
> it.
>
> There seems to be considerable support for adding some kind of "Report
> a problem" link to pages, (probably not necessarily) to the sidebar.

Problem Reports are used quite successfully on Wikia. The GPL code for
it is available at


Basically, readers report problems using the link at the end of each
article. Anyone can view and comment on the reports as you can see at
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Special:ProblemReports - click the
magnifying glasses for details.

Admins can reply to the reporter by email (if they gave an email
address) and can flag the report as "fixed", "closed", "needs staff
help", or "pending". Boilerplate responses can be added via the
MediaWiki namespace.

Reports are logged in Special:Log/pr_rep_log. You can get reports by
email or RSS if you want to.

Angela

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[David Gerard]

2009/3/3 David Gerard :
> 2009/3/3 Birgitte SB :

>> I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false 
>> positives that might come from a "report a problem"  link.  I imagine that 
>> all these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the 
>> sidebar while looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that 
>> page saying "If you have a problem with information about yourself that is 
>> on Wikipedia report it here."  And send it to a specific email address.

> 195468 hits on [[Help:Contents]] in Feb 2009 rank #466 - it's well
> worth a try. Propose it on [[Help talk:contents]] referring back to
> this discussion and those agreeing can support it there.


Proposed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Contents#Link_to_article_problems_page_or_.22Contact_Wikipedia.22_at_top

Please add "yea" or "nay" on this specific proposal there - consensus
on the talk page is the usual requirement before a change to a major
portal.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[David Gerard]

2009/3/3 Birgitte SB :

> I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false 
> positives that might come from a "report a problem"  link.  I imagine that 
> all these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the sidebar 
> while looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that page saying 
> "If you have a problem with information about yourself that is on Wikipedia 
> report it here."  And send it to a specific email address.


195468 hits on [[Help:Contents]] in Feb 2009 rank #466 - it's well
worth a try. Propose it on [[Help talk:contents]] referring back to
this discussion and those agreeing can support it there.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Birgitte SB]

I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false 
positives that might come from a "report a problem"  link.  I imagine that all 
these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the sidebar while 
looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that page saying "If you 
have a problem with information about yourself that is on Wikipedia report it 
here."  And send it to a specific email address.

Birgitte SB


--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Robert Rohde  wrote:

> From: Robert Rohde 
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" 
> Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 6:06 PM
> I'm breaking this specific idea out of the main thread,
> in order to focus on it.
> 
> There seems to be considerable support for adding some kind
> of "Report
> a problem" link to pages, (probably not necessarily)
> to the sidebar.
> 
> I'd like to give a little more thought to this idea,
> i.e. where we
> want a link to go, and what we want it to do.
> 
> Personally I think if such a link simply mails OTRS, that
> would be
> suboptimal.  It would risk creating a lot of email volume
> for
> relatively minor problems, and make it harder to
> differentiate
> important issues from minor ones.
> 
> By preference, I'd like to see a link that goes to a
> simple page for
> requesting help with options such as, "post a public
> message on the
> talk page", "email a volunteer for help",
> etc.  In principle, such a
> page, could even have a single text box for composing a
> message, a set
> of instructions, and a dropdown list of actions to take
> ranging from a
> talk page post to an OTRS email, etc.  Reports of vandalism
> and other
> simple problems might also be channeled automatically to
> one of the
> existing onwiki noticeboards if the reporter is not asking
> for
> privacy.
> 
> Clicking on the "report a problem" link should
> automatically fill in
> what page one came from.  Even more ideally, the report a
> problem link
> might be modified based on indicators in the page, such as
> "Category:Living people", in order to better
> prioritise and direct
> correspondence.  If the person reporting the problem does
> choose to
> post publicly, the post could be flagged with something
> like
> "Category:Unresolved problem reports", which
> might then be replaced
> with "Category:Resolved problem reports" after it
> has been looked at
> and handled.
> 
> Ideally, I think problem reports should include the option
> of being
> completely anonymous (though presumably with a CAPTCHA or
> other device
> to limit spam posts).
> 
> -Robert Rohde
> 
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[Foundation-l] Report a problem link

[Robert Rohde]

I'm breaking this specific idea out of the main thread, in order to focus on it.

There seems to be considerable support for adding some kind of "Report
a problem" link to pages, (probably not necessarily) to the sidebar.

I'd like to give a little more thought to this idea, i.e. where we
want a link to go, and what we want it to do.

Personally I think if such a link simply mails OTRS, that would be
suboptimal.  It would risk creating a lot of email volume for
relatively minor problems, and make it harder to differentiate
important issues from minor ones.

By preference, I'd like to see a link that goes to a simple page for
requesting help with options such as, "post a public message on the
talk page", "email a volunteer for help", etc.  In principle, such a
page, could even have a single text box for composing a message, a set
of instructions, and a dropdown list of actions to take ranging from a
talk page post to an OTRS email, etc.  Reports of vandalism and other
simple problems might also be channeled automatically to one of the
existing onwiki noticeboards if the reporter is not asking for
privacy.

Clicking on the "report a problem" link should automatically fill in
what page one came from.  Even more ideally, the report a problem link
might be modified based on indicators in the page, such as
"Category:Living people", in order to better prioritise and direct
correspondence.  If the person reporting the problem does choose to
post publicly, the post could be flagged with something like
"Category:Unresolved problem reports", which might then be replaced
with "Category:Resolved problem reports" after it has been looked at
and handled.

Ideally, I think problem reports should include the option of being
completely anonymous (though presumably with a CAPTCHA or other device
to limit spam posts).

-Robert Rohde

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