Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:47 PM, George Herbert wrote: > On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: >> On 8/7/09 5:43 PM, George Herbert wrote: >>> I suspect you're going to have to be prepared to do a lot of internal >>> discovery and discovery with potential hires to show them the web ops >>> side - it's not well documented now (I keep meaning to find out more >>> about the ops team and finding I have no time to join the IRC channel >>> 24x7 ;-P ). The team seems to function well - servers seem decently >>> stable - but it's not clear to me if the process and documentation is >>> up to industry standards for large website operations. At some point >>> tribal knowledge has to yield to documentation and process and >>> organizational knowledge. >> >> Oh yes, this is already very much an ongoing process as we've been >> increasing the ops staff this last year. > > > One addition that popped up in my head overnight. > > You've been describing the role as CTO, but I think in US IT industry > standard naming schemes it's really more of a CIO role. > > CTO tends to be associated with development (hardware/software), the > sort of role I understand Brion will be still handling going forwards. > > CIO is more of the IT operations manager, both for inwards and > outwards facing environments. Large websites sometimes have CTO for > outwards facing IT environments, but with a breakdown of IT vs > development I think the standard industry naming may make more sense. > > I understood what you had in mind from the first email, but I think a > typical IT candidate seeing CTO would think something very different > at first, and the label and first impression can make a big difference > in who you can find and how they approach the role. > > > -- > -george william herbert > george.herb...@gmail.com > > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > This is a very true point. To people not in the industry, there seems to be little distinction between the two titles. And a lot of companies only have a CIO or CTO, further leading people to believe there is no difference. There is certainly more "tech" involved in a CTO. Clever of them to put the word in there :) -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > On 8/7/09 5:43 PM, George Herbert wrote: >> I suspect you're going to have to be prepared to do a lot of internal >> discovery and discovery with potential hires to show them the web ops >> side - it's not well documented now (I keep meaning to find out more >> about the ops team and finding I have no time to join the IRC channel >> 24x7 ;-P ). The team seems to function well - servers seem decently >> stable - but it's not clear to me if the process and documentation is >> up to industry standards for large website operations. At some point >> tribal knowledge has to yield to documentation and process and >> organizational knowledge. > > Oh yes, this is already very much an ongoing process as we've been > increasing the ops staff this last year. One addition that popped up in my head overnight. You've been describing the role as CTO, but I think in US IT industry standard naming schemes it's really more of a CIO role. CTO tends to be associated with development (hardware/software), the sort of role I understand Brion will be still handling going forwards. CIO is more of the IT operations manager, both for inwards and outwards facing environments. Large websites sometimes have CTO for outwards facing IT environments, but with a breakdown of IT vs development I think the standard industry naming may make more sense. I understood what you had in mind from the first email, but I think a typical IT candidate seeing CTO would think something very different at first, and the label and first impression can make a big difference in who you can find and how they approach the role. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > With the increase in administrative and organizational duties, I've been > less and less able to devote time to the part of the job that's nearest > and dearest to me: working with our volunteer developer community and > end users -- Wikimedians and other MediaWiki users alike -- who have > bugs, patches, features, ideas, complaints, hopes and dreams that need > attention. > > The last thing I want to be is a bottleneck that prevents our users from > getting what they need, or our open source developers from being able to > participate effectively! > > Multicore brain upgrades aren't yet available, so to keep us running at > top speed I've suggested, and gotten Sue & Erik's blessing on, splitting > out the components of my current CTO role into two separate positions: This is great news. I look forward to upping my daily dose of vitamin B (the supplements just didn't cut it). ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On 8/7/09 5:43 PM, George Herbert wrote: > I suspect you're going to have to be prepared to do a lot of internal > discovery and discovery with potential hires to show them the web ops > side - it's not well documented now (I keep meaning to find out more > about the ops team and finding I have no time to join the IRC channel > 24x7 ;-P ). The team seems to function well - servers seem decently > stable - but it's not clear to me if the process and documentation is > up to industry standards for large website operations. At some point > tribal knowledge has to yield to documentation and process and > organizational knowledge. Oh yes, this is already very much an ongoing process as we've been increasing the ops staff this last year. -- brion ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
> A high turnover rate would indicate a lot of people joining and > leaving, > instead of long-term volunteers. ah! that! no, site is operated by same people as five years ago (with brilliant exception of search), few people left during that time, because of various reasons. some volunteers are not volunteers anymore though, being on foundation payroll. unfortunately, being 'sysadmin' of such site is more about running around with debugger, profiler and compiler, rather than conventional systems administration, and it is somewhat difficult to get people to volunteer to do that (and certain things as full automatization of cluster management are quite big projects, that require years of experience and attention to detail). Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Domas Mituzas wrote: > Hi! > > > I have a question on this for the tech team: as a rule, do you have a > > high turnover of volunteers on the sysadmin ... > > turn-what? > Jens is building a house or something, if that was your question. > > Domas > A high turnover rate would indicate a lot of people joining and leaving, instead of long-term volunteers. -- Alex (User:Majorly) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
Hi! > I have a question on this for the tech team: as a rule, do you have a > high turnover of volunteers on the sysadmin ... turn-what? Jens is building a house or something, if that was your question. Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Geoffrey Plourde wrote: > High Priest of Mediawiki? I propose robes as his official outfit, similar to this: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/index.shtml Magnus ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 01:43, George Herbert wrote: > I suspect you're going to have to be prepared to do a lot of internal > discovery and discovery with potential hires to show them the web ops > side - it's not well documented now (I keep meaning to find out more > about the ops team and finding I have no time to join the IRC channel > 24x7 ;-P ). The team seems to function well - servers seem decently > stable - but it's not clear to me if the process and documentation is > up to industry standards for large website operations. At some point > tribal knowledge has to yield to documentation and process and > organizational knowledge. I have a question on this for the tech team: as a rule, do you have a high turnover of volunteers on the sysadmin rather than the dev side, or has it remained mainly constant over the past few years? Considering the future, better documentation (assuming you don't already have such things privately) would be no bad thing. The rest of Wikimedia and our projects have extensive procedural documentation because while there are old-timers around, there are also people who have less time to give and move around between activities, which has both advantages and disadvantages within a largely volunteer organisation such as ours. S -- Sean Whitton / OpenPGP KeyID: 0x25F4EAB7 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
High Priest of Mediawiki? From: Dan Rosenthal To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 5:59:14 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split Somehow I'm not disappointed that we're having a problem trying to find a title to describe how incredibly awesome Brion is. Congrats. -Dan On Aug 8, 2009, at 8:45 PM, Jim Redmond wrote: > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 19:32, Kat Walsh > wrote: > >> Or you could have two sets of business cards. :-) >> > > And here I was going to suggest a slashed title: "Senior Software > Architect/Lead Hacker". (Maybe "Senior Software Architect/ > Sourceror" if > he's the eighth son of an eighth son.) > > Congratulations on doing the job of two, Brion. I hope we find a > good CTO > to handle the management side for you. > > -- > Jim Redmond > [[User:Jredmond]] > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
My favorite is "Chief Handshaker". :) --Original Message-- From: Brian Sender: foundation-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List ReplyTo: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split Sent: Aug 8, 2009 8:57 PM On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > On 8/7/09 2:35 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > > By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed > > "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent > > with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who > > isn't primarily a manager. > > > > It's not a bad title in any case. > > > > (I was previously a manager and made a decision to hire a boss because > > I realized I'd rather be doing technical work than performance > > reviews. These days I'm just a lowly 'Senior … Engineer', and I'm > > quite happy with that, thank you very much) > > Exactly. > > Now, if we really think of a_totally badass title_ before we get the > business cards printed up I'm open to changing it, but honestly I like > it and it fits the role I see for myself just fine. :) My favorite title of all time, and I think the undisputed winner of the most badass title of all time, is Chief Internet Evangelist. You could be the Chief MediaWiki Evangelist, although architect does have a nice ring to it for the time being. Perhaps later on in your career you'll take on the role of Chief Wiki Evangelist. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > On 8/7/09 2:35 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > > By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed > > "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent > > with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who > > isn't primarily a manager. > > > > It's not a bad title in any case. > > > > (I was previously a manager and made a decision to hire a boss because > > I realized I'd rather be doing technical work than performance > > reviews. These days I'm just a lowly 'Senior … Engineer', and I'm > > quite happy with that, thank you very much) > > Exactly. > > Now, if we really think of a _totally badass title_ before we get the > business cards printed up I'm open to changing it, but honestly I like > it and it fits the role I see for myself just fine. :) My favorite title of all time, and I think the undisputed winner of the most badass title of all time, is Chief Internet Evangelist. You could be the Chief MediaWiki Evangelist, although architect does have a nice ring to it for the time being. Perhaps later on in your career you'll take on the role of Chief Wiki Evangelist. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Chad wrote: > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: >> >> * ensure that the developers have what they need and are coding smoothly >> > > Personally, I'm just waiting for Mediawiki to become self-aware and start > coding itself :) If SkyNet is PHP based, we have hope after all... -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/9 Kat Walsh : > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > >> Now, if we really think of a _totally badass title_ before we get the >> business cards printed up I'm open to changing it, but honestly I like >> it and it fits the role I see for myself just fine. :) > > Or you could have two sets of business cards. :-) > > -Kat > is not sure she can come up with anything badass enough for Brion, actually... Well, as long as it's not something lame like "I'm the CEO... bitch", as the leader of "a fellow Web 2.0 property" (eurgh) apparently has/had, I'm quite sure Brion's call on his title would work fine. :-) J. -- James D. Forrester jdforres...@wikimedia.org | jdforres...@gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
Somehow I'm not disappointed that we're having a problem trying to find a title to describe how incredibly awesome Brion is. Congrats. -Dan On Aug 8, 2009, at 8:45 PM, Jim Redmond wrote: > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 19:32, Kat Walsh > wrote: > >> Or you could have two sets of business cards. :-) >> > > And here I was going to suggest a slashed title: "Senior Software > Architect/Lead Hacker". (Maybe "Senior Software Architect/ > Sourceror" if > he's the eighth son of an eighth son.) > > Congratulations on doing the job of two, Brion. I hope we find a > good CTO > to handle the management side for you. > > -- > Jim Redmond > [[User:Jredmond]] > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 19:32, Kat Walsh wrote: > Or you could have two sets of business cards. :-) > And here I was going to suggest a slashed title: "Senior Software Architect/Lead Hacker". (Maybe "Senior Software Architect/Sourceror" if he's the eighth son of an eighth son.) Congratulations on doing the job of two, Brion. I hope we find a good CTO to handle the management side for you. -- Jim Redmond [[User:Jredmond]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > > * ensure that the developers have what they need and are coding smoothly > Personally, I'm just waiting for Mediawiki to become self-aware and start coding itself :) -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > Now, if we really think of a _totally badass title_ before we get the > business cards printed up I'm open to changing it, but honestly I like > it and it fits the role I see for myself just fine. :) Or you could have two sets of business cards. :-) -Kat is not sure she can come up with anything badass enough for Brion, actually... -- Your donations keep Wikipedia online: http://donate.wikimedia.org/en Wikimedia, Press: k...@wikimedia.org * Personal: k...@mindspillage.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mindspillage * (G)AIM:Mindspillage mindspillage or mind|wandering on irc.freenode.net * email for phone ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/7 Brion Vibber : > On 8/7/09 2:35 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: >> By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed >> "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent >> with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who >> isn't primarily a manager. >> >> It's not a bad title in any case. >> >> (I was previously a manager and made a decision to hire a boss because >> I realized I'd rather be doing technical work than performance >> reviews. These days I'm just a lowly 'Senior … Engineer', and I'm >> quite happy with that, thank you very much) > > Exactly. > > Now, if we really think of a _totally badass title_ before we get the > business cards printed up I'm open to changing it, but honestly I like > it and it fits the role I see for myself just fine. :) > > Remember... titles are only useful when they're actually descriptive; > otherwise they're just fluff. Certainly when I'm doing hiring I'm far > more interested in asking what somebody did at their previous job than > in what it was called... > > -- brion Problem is that the ideal title depends on the target somewhat. Within some sections of the the open source community something like something like "lead hacker" would probably have quite an . On the other hand when dealing with almost anyone else something more conventional would be better. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
lolz 2009/8/8 Domas Mituzas > Hi! > > > And I have to assume that's primarily due to your > > efforts. > > > > Thanks Brion. Excellent work. > > Yes, thank you Brion! :) > > Domas > > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
Hi! > And I have to assume that's primarily due to your > efforts. > > Thanks Brion. Excellent work. Yes, thank you Brion! :) Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > Now, if we really think of a _totally badass title_ before we get the > business cards printed up I'm open to changing it, but honestly I like > it and it fits the role I see for myself just fine. :) Ah, hi Brion. I didn't realise you were on this list. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the wonderful work you've done for Wikimedia. I work on en:wp and I remember the days of somewhat frequent outages and annoyingly slow response times. I'm sure these things are not entirely solved but certainly, in my experience, things are MASSIVELY, MASSIVELY improved. And I have to assume that's primarily due to your efforts. Thanks Brion. Excellent work. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Robert Rohde wrote: > Brion is also engaged in a > significant amount of interaction with external communities... Just so happens I got my first view of Brion only yesterday. Here he is giving a talk to Google staff: seems like a lovely, down-to-earth guy. Informative stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWef69ItVrU ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
David Gerard wrote: > 2009/8/7 Gregory Maxwell: > >> It's not bad to have an internal pattern, but I think it's more >> important to match the practices in industry. >> By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed >> "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent >> with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who >> isn't primarily a manager. >> > If, God forbid, Brion ever has to write a resume, it just has to say > "http://wikipedia.org/ , got it?" and an address to back the > dumptrucks full of money up to. Inflation has set in since the time he could be bought off for a new laptop. :-) Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Brion Vibber wrote: > On 8/7/09 3:39 PM, James Forrester wrote: >> 2009/8/7 Brion Vibber: >>> On 8/7/09 3:06 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: It's not just about resumes, it's also about being taken seriously when communicating with others. A "Head Software Architect" will probably be taken more seriously than a "Senior Software Architect", since the former shows you are the boss, that latter could be one of many. >>> >>> Having many folks at that level is be a condition dearly to be wished for! >> >> Well, in my experience it shows that the organisation's overall >> architecture is poorly thought-out, and with insufficient resource >> expenditure on correcting it (or, for that matter, stopping the rot >> getting even worse). But yes. :-) > > Well ideally it would be because we really do have that much work to > do... ;) > > -- brion My eleven cents - My consulting company gets brought in a lot to deal with this type of growth in commercial companies (few have this big a web presence, but operations concepts are operations concepts). Titles are important to some people (above in senior leadership, at level where people are sensitive about their title, below where line staff sometimes behave differently depending on management titles). Some people not so much. Either way works, but it does matter to know your own staff, leadership, and candidates mindsets. Separating out development lead role (engineering) from operations lead role is an important step. Second, and not too far behind, is usually separating out internal IT from web-facing operations - two very different environments and sets of customer expectations, and usually best served by different people and team leads. A good CTO / operations candidate will be able to look at the way WMF is operating those teams now and try to suggest paths forwards for those two functional roles etc. I believe some internal staff are focusing on office IT now, and a lot of the website operations people are volunteer. I suspect you're going to have to be prepared to do a lot of internal discovery and discovery with potential hires to show them the web ops side - it's not well documented now (I keep meaning to find out more about the ops team and finding I have no time to join the IRC channel 24x7 ;-P ). The team seems to function well - servers seem decently stable - but it's not clear to me if the process and documentation is up to industry standards for large website operations. At some point tribal knowledge has to yield to documentation and process and organizational knowledge. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On 8/7/09 3:39 PM, James Forrester wrote: > 2009/8/7 Brion Vibber: >> On 8/7/09 3:06 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: >>> It's not just about resumes, it's also about being taken seriously >>> when communicating with others. A "Head Software Architect" will >>> probably be taken more seriously than a "Senior Software Architect", >>> since the former shows you are the boss, that latter could be one of >>> many. >> >> Having many folks at that level is be a condition dearly to be wished for! > > Well, in my experience it shows that the organisation's overall > architecture is poorly thought-out, and with insufficient resource > expenditure on correcting it (or, for that matter, stopping the rot > getting even worse). But yes. :-) Well ideally it would be because we really do have that much work to do... ;) -- brion ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On 8/7/09 2:35 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed > "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent > with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who > isn't primarily a manager. > > It's not a bad title in any case. > > (I was previously a manager and made a decision to hire a boss because > I realized I'd rather be doing technical work than performance > reviews. These days I'm just a lowly 'Senior … Engineer', and I'm > quite happy with that, thank you very much) Exactly. Now, if we really think of a _totally badass title_ before we get the business cards printed up I'm open to changing it, but honestly I like it and it fits the role I see for myself just fine. :) Remember... titles are only useful when they're actually descriptive; otherwise they're just fluff. Certainly when I'm doing hiring I'm far more interested in asking what somebody did at their previous job than in what it was called... -- brion ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/7 Brion Vibber : > On 8/7/09 3:06 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: >> It's not just about resumes, it's also about being taken seriously >> when communicating with others. A "Head Software Architect" will >> probably be taken more seriously than a "Senior Software Architect", >> since the former shows you are the boss, that latter could be one of >> many. > > Having many folks at that level is be a condition dearly to be wished for! Well, in my experience it shows that the organisation's overall architecture is poorly thought-out, and with insufficient resource expenditure on correcting it (or, for that matter, stopping the rot getting even worse). But yes. :-) J. -- James D. Forrester jdforres...@wikimedia.org | jdforres...@gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On 8/7/09 3:06 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > It's not just about resumes, it's also about being taken seriously > when communicating with others. A "Head Software Architect" will > probably be taken more seriously than a "Senior Software Architect", > since the former shows you are the boss, that latter could be one of > many. Having many folks at that level is be a condition dearly to be wished for! -- brion ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/7 Aryeh Gregor : > Well, we can still informally call him the lead developer. We can informally call him "Brion". It's worked up until now! ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/7 David Gerard : > 2009/8/7 Gregory Maxwell : > >> It's not bad to have an internal pattern, but I think it's more >> important to match the practices in industry. >> By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed >> "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent >> with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who >> isn't primarily a manager. > > > If, God forbid, Brion ever has to write a resume, it just has to say > "http://wikipedia.org/ , got it?" and an address to back the > dumptrucks full of money up to. It's not just about resumes, it's also about being taken seriously when communicating with others. A "Head Software Architect" will probably be taken more seriously than a "Senior Software Architect", since the former shows you are the boss, that latter could be one of many. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
It's great to hear this. We've really been lacking in senior developer time for the last year or two, and I hope we can put an end to that! On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Robert Rohde wrote: > I would like to note that it isn't just internal naming schemes and/or > industry conventions that matter. Brion is also engaged in a > significant amount of interaction with external communities, including > the volunteer developers and the Mediawiki user base. In that > context, I think a description such as "head" or "lead" would help > explain his role more clearly than "senior" does. Well, we can still informally call him the lead developer. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: >> Our approach to job titles actually has an emerging basic pattern. :-) >> It's not 100% consistent because we sometimes have stuck with commonly >> used titles like "Office Manager" and "General Counsel", but generally >> one we try to follow: > [snip] > > It's not bad to have an internal pattern, but I think it's more > important to match the practices in industry. > > By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed > "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent > with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who > isn't primarily a manager. > > It's not a bad title in any case. I would like to note that it isn't just internal naming schemes and/or industry conventions that matter. Brion is also engaged in a significant amount of interaction with external communities, including the volunteer developers and the Mediawiki user base. In that context, I think a description such as "head" or "lead" would help explain his role more clearly than "senior" does. Anyway, that's my two cents. -Robert Rohde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/7 Gregory Maxwell : > It's not bad to have an internal pattern, but I think it's more > important to match the practices in industry. > By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed > "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent > with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who > isn't primarily a manager. If, God forbid, Brion ever has to write a resume, it just has to say "http://wikipedia.org/ , got it?" and an address to back the dumptrucks full of money up to. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: > Our approach to job titles actually has an emerging basic pattern. :-) > It's not 100% consistent because we sometimes have stuck with commonly > used titles like "Office Manager" and "General Counsel", but generally > one we try to follow: [snip] It's not bad to have an internal pattern, but I think it's more important to match the practices in industry. By containing the magic words "senior" and "architect" the proposed "Senior Software Architect" is, in my experience, not inconsistent with industry naming practice for the most important tech guru who isn't primarily a manager. It's not a bad title in any case. (I was previously a manager and made a decision to hire a boss because I realized I'd rather be doing technical work than performance reviews. These days I'm just a lowly 'Senior … Engineer', and I'm quite happy with that, thank you very much) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/7 Thomas Dalton : > It's not really title inflation to give someone that is in charge of > something a title which says that. Our approach to job titles actually has an emerging basic pattern. :-) It's not 100% consistent because we sometimes have stuck with commonly used titles like "Office Manager" and "General Counsel", but generally one we try to follow: "Chief" positions = senior level positions with direct reports and departmental budgets; "Head of" positions = positions with their own budget, and sometimes 1-2 direct reports, reporting to a c-level position "Senior" positions = positions requiring significant experience; positions w/ high influence and sometimes direct reports As you can see from the current tech department, it's unusual in that it doesn't currently have any "Head of" roles with the exception of IT support. With that same exception, the budget is at present centrally managed by Brion. We're considering multiple approaches to division, including the introduction of a "Head of Operations" role for all site ops, and that'll be a conversation that we'll have with the new CTO. We may or may not revisit the job title for Brion's new role at that point, and he continues to serve as the CTO until then. -- Erik Möller Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
2009/8/7 Michael Snow : > So you're suggesting we should join in the rampant title inflation of > corporate America, where everyone is a Sr. Executive Vice-President of > something? Anyway, your assessment of Brion's ongoing significance to > our operations is perceptive, and I hope everyone else maintains that > understanding. And to address the question of title a little more > seriously, I'm not sure the issue is that critical, but we'll certainly > take the feedback into consideration as the organizational structure of > the technical team gets defined more clearly. It's not really title inflation to give someone that is in charge of something a title which says that. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
Robert Rohde wrote: > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > >> I think this is a fantastic idea. I think the biggest problem the tech >> side of the WMF has had over the last year or two has been >> prioritisation and splitting the job like this should help that no >> end. >> >> I'm curious - would the Senior Software Architect report to the CTO? >> If so, that means Brion has, technically speaking, proposed his own >> demotion - there aren't many people big enough to do that! >> > Without changing anything else about this proposal, I'd like to > suggest that Brion's job title come with a more imposing description > than "Senior". For example "Chief", "Lead", or "Head" Software > Architect. There is only one Brion, and I assume he will remain > singularly important in his role overseeing software development (even > if he gets a new boss). By contrast large corporations often have > many people who are titled "Senior" this-or-that but are still > relatively unimportant. > So you're suggesting we should join in the rampant title inflation of corporate America, where everyone is a Sr. Executive Vice-President of something? Anyway, your assessment of Brion's ongoing significance to our operations is perceptive, and I hope everyone else maintains that understanding. And to address the question of title a little more seriously, I'm not sure the issue is that critical, but we'll certainly take the feedback into consideration as the organizational structure of the technical team gets defined more clearly. --Michael Snow ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > I think this is a fantastic idea. I think the biggest problem the tech > side of the WMF has had over the last year or two has been > prioritisation and splitting the job like this should help that no > end. > > I'm curious - would the Senior Software Architect report to the CTO? > If so, that means Brion has, technically speaking, proposed his own > demotion - there aren't many people big enough to do that! Without changing anything else about this proposal, I'd like to suggest that Brion's job title come with a more imposing description than "Senior". For example "Chief", "Lead", or "Head" Software Architect. There is only one Brion, and I assume he will remain singularly important in his role overseeing software development (even if he gets a new boss). By contrast large corporations often have many people who are titled "Senior" this-or-that but are still relatively unimportant. -Robert Rohde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
On 8/7/09 11:12 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > I think this is a fantastic idea. I think the biggest problem the tech > side of the WMF has had over the last year or two has been > prioritisation and splitting the job like this should help that no > end. > > I'm curious - would the Senior Software Architect report to the CTO? > If so, that means Brion has, technically speaking, proposed his own > demotion - there aren't many people big enough to do that! It sure beats letting the organization succumb to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle :) -- brion ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
I think this is a fantastic idea. I think the biggest problem the tech side of the WMF has had over the last year or two has been prioritisation and splitting the job like this should help that no end. I'm curious - would the Senior Software Architect report to the CTO? If so, that means Brion has, technically speaking, proposed his own demotion - there aren't many people big enough to do that! ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
Thank you for the update, Brion. You've been effectively wearing every hat there is to wear for a person with technical skills in the Wikimedia Foundation. That's an enormously challenging set of responsibilities, and you've managed them very well, both in good times and in emergency-crisis-mode-times. ;-) Please note that nothing is going to change immediately, and we won't hire a candidate for the CTO position unless and until we're happy that it can work. We'll of course also clearly define the responsibilities of the two positions. Brion, thank you for taking this step, and for all your hard work over the years doing an impossible job. :-) -- Erik Möller Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Upcoming tech hiring: CTO position split
I'm very excited to announce some new upcoming hiring for tech... I've also posted this on our tech blog which is mirrored on Planet Wikimedia: http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2009/08/cto-position-split/ -- Back in 2005, Wikimedia brought me on as the Foundation's first paid employee after two years leading MediaWiki development as a volunteer. Naturally as the *only* member of the tech staff, I started at the top: Chief Technology Officer. In the 4 years since, we've gone from one tech employee to a dozen, from 50 servers to 350, from upstart novelty to established web juggernaut. As our operations and our staff have grown over the years, so have my responsibilities. Beefing up our tech staff is in some ways just like adding servers to our data center -- we can get more things done with less task switching, but scaling still has its overhead. With the increase in administrative and organizational duties, I've been less and less able to devote time to the part of the job that's nearest and dearest to me: working with our volunteer developer community and end users -- Wikimedians and other MediaWiki users alike -- who have bugs, patches, features, ideas, complaints, hopes and dreams that need attention. The last thing I want to be is a bottleneck that prevents our users from getting what they need, or our open source developers from being able to participate effectively! Multicore brain upgrades aren't yet available, so to keep us running at top speed I've suggested, and gotten Sue & Erik's blessing on, splitting out the components of my current CTO role into two separate positions: As Senior Software Architect, I... * maintain the MediaWiki development roadmap * give timely feedback and review on feature ideas, patches and commits * ensure that end-users and bug reporters are treated respectfully and that their needs are met * get developers & users involved and talking at local and worldwide events as well as online * represent the "face of the developers" interacting with our user community (both Wikimedians and third-party MediaWiki users) As CTO, I... * set high-level strategic priorities with the rest of WMF * handle administrative management for the Wikimedia Foundation's technical department & internal IT ** budgeting ** vendor relations & purchase approval ** hiring & personnel details * work with the fundraising side of WMF to seek out and make use of potential resources: ** grants for projects we need ** in-kind donations of infrastructure ** sharing development work with like-minded orgs * ensure that the operations team has what they need to address current and predictable future site needs * ensure that the developers have what they need and are coding smoothly * plan and implement internship programs and volunteer dev events both on-site and elsewhere I'll continue to act in both roles until we've found a satisfactory candidate to fill the CTO position (full job description will go up soon), at which point I'll be freed up to concentrate on being a full-time Senior Software Architect. (Yes, I'll review your patch!) I will of course continue to work closely with our eventual CTO... the idea is to find someone who'll make the decisions I would have wanted to if I only had time. ;) -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org) CTO, Wikimedia Foundation San Francisco ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
