Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Tomasz Finc]

Totally,

Getting the platform in place is step one. Next we get to prioritize
surfacing more reading features vs. adding more editing features. I'll
add a calendar of what the current discussions have looked like so
that everyone can easily see them.

--tomasz



On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Strainu  wrote:
> 2011/6/14 Tomasz Finc :
>> As always .. come by to our mobile project pages on meta at
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects and let us know how we
>> can best iterate and improve.
>
> I see no mention there of a roadmap for mobile editing, which I think
> was the main issue BirgitteSB raised. Do you have a plan for that in
> the future?
>
> Thanks,
>  Strainu
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Strainu]

2011/6/14 Tomasz Finc :
> As always .. come by to our mobile project pages on meta at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects and let us know how we
> can best iterate and improve.

I see no mention there of a roadmap for mobile editing, which I think
was the main issue BirgitteSB raised. Do you have a plan for that in
the future?

Thanks,
  Strainu

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Tomasz Finc]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Samuel Klein  wrote:
> James - Wiki Edit is pretty nice.  Is this a one-man project by Don Kosak?
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM,   wrote:
>> Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from 
>> the browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between 
>> the app and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is 
>> much more that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people 
>> to these apps which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF 
>> messaging. And these people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to 
>> download a special app for it. Probably people who are decent candidates to 
>> convert to editors.
>
> This is definitely a problem.  New readership is growing much faster
> on mobile and tablet devices, and we don't have a single channel for
> them to participate in the edting/reading/communicating community, as
> you say.

+1 And this is something that I think about A LOT. This is why were
laying down the engineering work right now to make it much simpler to
build out browser based community, editing, and reading features. Our
current setup of the Ruby gateway has scaled much better then we could
have ever expected but its also complicated our operations setup,
required extra time to port any features over to ruby, and generally
required a whole separate development cycle to build out anything
mobile related. Over the last two months we've hired a dedicated
mobile engineer, ported the gateway, reached out to community members,
and ran an intensive research study to help us where we should be
focusing our resources. The community has also been busy working on
mobile. We've seen both and Android and iOS app show up for uploading
images to commons.

I fully believe that mobile development is a key strategic area for us
to reach new contributors and I'm super happy that were taking it
seriously. It's going to mean experimenting and trying lots of new and
old things to see what works best.

Looking at apps vs browser I'm really eager to reach as many people as
possible and these days there is nothing as ubiquitous and standards
compliant as a web browser. Most phones have them and even if their a
pain in the ass to develop for they've allowed us to reach so many
people. That being said, apps provide a very interesting place to
experiment with different ways of both presenting and interacting with
content. As others have pointed out on this thread there are a number
of really novel approaches to visualizing Wikipedia content and I
think we can learn a lot from them. Not all of them are collaborative
and thus won't fit into our strategy but ones like WikEdit do and i'd
love to see more examples like them. Were going to learn a lot from
their approaches and vice versa.

It's going to take working with both ends to really understand what
works best and I'm eager to see it.

As always .. come by to our mobile project pages on meta at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Projects and let us know how we
can best iterate and improve.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

This seems related: 


Nemo

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Amir E. Aharoni]

2011/6/12 David Gerard :
> On 11 June 2011 00:27,   wrote:
>
>> You are third person to respond as if my email was about me personally 
>> looking for help editing. And the second to snip my writing out of all 
>> context.  Steven seemed to actually get what my concern was.  You can hate 
>> whatever you like, or dislike as the case may be.  It is not going to help 
>> WMF reach all the people who will be using apps despite your opinion.  I 
>> don't need any help, as I have figured out a workable solution. There are 
>> thousands of people, going by the ratings number, that are consuming 
>> Wikipedia in way that will make it very difficult to convert them editors 
>> and possibly even to communicate with them through banners. That is what 
>> concerns me.
>
>
> +1
>
> This is the actual problem.
>
> What would happen to a Bugzilla entry flagging systemic problems of
> the sort Birgitte flags? It would get marked INVALID in short order.

I'm not talking about systemic problems. A particular bug saying "It's
hard/impossible to edit Wikipedia using device X, because the Save
button is too small" is perfectly valid. Even if it's a bug in the
browser of that device - that's what upstream is for. I have at least
one example of productive communication between MediaWiki developers
and Mozilla developers [1] and i'm sure that there's more.

An app may be a temporary solution when all else fails, but submitting
to this ecosystem, which causes the proliferation of non-standard,
over-customized and often proprietary solutions is not the way to go.

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629878

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
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"We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Samuel Klein]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:55 PM, David Gerard  wrote:


> This is the actual problem.
>
> What would happen to a Bugzilla entry flagging systemic problems of
> the sort Birgitte flags? It would get marked INVALID in short order.

I'm not sure this is true.
What about a Bugzilla tag flagging such problems?  There are many of
them, they need to be prioritized because each could be a large topic,
and they take effort to convert into smaller fixable problems.

SJ

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[David Gerard]

On 11 June 2011 00:27,   wrote:

> You are third person to respond as if my email was about me personally 
> looking for help editing. And the second to snip my writing out of all 
> context.  Steven seemed to actually get what my concern was.  You can hate 
> whatever you like, or dislike as the case may be.  It is not going to help 
> WMF reach all the people who will be using apps despite your opinion.  I 
> don't need any help, as I have figured out a workable solution. There are 
> thousands of people, going by the ratings number, that are consuming 
> Wikipedia in way that will make it very difficult to convert them editors and 
> possibly even to communicate with them through banners. That is what concerns 
> me.


+1

This is the actual problem.

What would happen to a Bugzilla entry flagging systemic problems of
the sort Birgitte flags? It would get marked INVALID in short order.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Samuel Klein]

James - Wiki Edit is pretty nice.  Is this a one-man project by Don Kosak?

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM,   wrote:
> Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from the 
> browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between the 
> app and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is much 
> more that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people to 
> these apps which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF messaging. 
> And these people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to download a 
> special app for it. Probably people who are decent candidates to convert to 
> editors.

This is definitely a problem.  New readership is growing much faster
on mobile and tablet devices, and we don't have a single channel for
them to participate in the edting/reading/communicating community, as
you say.

On the positive side, we can find out a lot about people based on what
tool they are using to visit and browse the site, so we can directly
encourage them to become editors, or to download better apps/tools for
using the projects.

SJ

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Birgitte_sb]

I forgot to say there are not website bugs, so much as browser bugs.  Or just 
an extremely different interface.  Perhaps a great mobile browser could be 
built to effectively kill apps. But is not something website changes could 
address. IMHO

BirgitteSB

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2011, at 6:14 PM, birgitte...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from the 
> browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between the 
> app and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is much 
> more that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people to 
> these apps which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF messaging. 
> And these people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to download a 
> special app for it. Probably people who are decent candidates to convert to 
> editors.
> 
> BirgitteSB
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:48 AM, James Alexander  
> wrote:
> 
>> I totally agree with Steven and I think we really want to make this easier
>> (especially for small edits). I use a nice app called "Wiki Edit" on my Ipad
>> (along with some random editing on the browser) which is actually pretty
>> nice (and handles wiki text well given the limitations). It works for
>> basically any mediawiki wiki. http://www.wikieditapp.com/
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:00 PM,  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey"  wrote
 Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the iPad
 
 ___
 
>>> 
>>> I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty
>>> wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The
>>> issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for
>>> "Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of
>>> the apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and
>>> there are a variety of them. So people must be using them.
>>> 
>>> BirgitteSB
>>> ___
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> James Alexander
>> Community Fellow
>> Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Birgitte_sb]

You are third person to respond as if my email was about me personally looking 
for help editing. And the second to snip my writing out of all context.  Steven 
seemed to actually get what my concern was.  You can hate whatever you like, or 
dislike as the case may be.  It is not going to help WMF reach all the people 
who will be using apps despite your opinion.  I don't need any help, as I have 
figured out a workable solution. There are thousands of people, going by the 
ratings number, that are consuming Wikipedia in way that will make it very 
difficult to convert them editors and possibly even to communicate with them 
through banners. That is what concerns me.

BirgitteSB

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2011, at 12:58 PM, "Amir E. Aharoni"  
wrote:

> 2011/6/10  :
>> In setting up my iPad this is what shocked me.
>> It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't
>> to worrisome. I figured "there's an app for that".
> 
> I hate the whole idea of "apps" for accessing websites through iPhone,
> iPad, Android, OVI or whatever. And i hate it with a passion. Websites
> should be accessed through web browsers, not through a custom app for
> every website and for every brand of mobile device.
> 
> Please report any difficulties with reading or editing Wikipedia
> through your regular mobile web browser in Bugzilla (
> http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org ). If you never reported bugs through
> Bugzilla, it may be a bit intimidating at first, but this is the right
> thing to do for our websites and for the whole movement.
> 
> There's also the Mobile Feedback mailing list (
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-feedback-l ),
> where people who don't use Bugzilla report bugs quite often.
> 
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> "We're living in pieces,
>  I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
> 
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Birgitte_sb]

Yes I eventually found that app.  And it is much superior to editing from the 
browser. But it doesn't support ProofreadPage extension. Still between the app 
and browser it is definitely workable with two edits. My concern is much more 
that the reading/navigation experience seems to be driving people to these apps 
which strip out all of the editing and maybe even WMF messaging. And these 
people must be genuinely interested in Wikipedia to download a special app for 
it. Probably people who are decent candidates to convert to editors.

BirgitteSB

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:48 AM, James Alexander  wrote:

> I totally agree with Steven and I think we really want to make this easier
> (especially for small edits). I use a nice app called "Wiki Edit" on my Ipad
> (along with some random editing on the browser) which is actually pretty
> nice (and handles wiki text well given the limitations). It works for
> basically any mediawiki wiki. http://www.wikieditapp.com/
> 
> James
> 
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:00 PM,  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey"  wrote
>>> Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the iPad
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>> 
>> I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty
>> wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The
>> issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for
>> "Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of
>> the apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and
>> there are a variety of them. So people must be using them.
>> 
>> BirgitteSB
>> ___
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> James Alexander
> Community Fellow
> Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Amir E. Aharoni]

2011/6/10  :
> In setting up my iPad this is what shocked me.
> It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't
> to worrisome. I figured "there's an app for that".

I hate the whole idea of "apps" for accessing websites through iPhone,
iPad, Android, OVI or whatever. And i hate it with a passion. Websites
should be accessed through web browsers, not through a custom app for
every website and for every brand of mobile device.

Please report any difficulties with reading or editing Wikipedia
through your regular mobile web browser in Bugzilla (
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org ). If you never reported bugs through
Bugzilla, it may be a bit intimidating at first, but this is the right
thing to do for our websites and for the whole movement.

There's also the Mobile Feedback mailing list (
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-feedback-l ),
where people who don't use Bugzilla report bugs quite often.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
"We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[James Alexander]

I totally agree with Steven and I think we really want to make this easier
(especially for small edits). I use a nice app called "Wiki Edit" on my Ipad
(along with some random editing on the browser) which is actually pretty
nice (and handles wiki text well given the limitations). It works for
basically any mediawiki wiki. http://www.wikieditapp.com/

James

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:00 PM,  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey"  wrote:
>
> > Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the ipad?
> >
> > ___
> >
>
> I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty
> wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The
> issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for
> "Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of
> the apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and
> there are a variety of them. So people must be using them.
>
> BirgitteSB
> ___
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



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Community Fellow
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Birgitte,

Those same worries came up in me when I saw a video about the "Discover" app:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DSBEmkeUzQ

In a contribution to
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier/Ausgabe_7_2010
I compared those new apps with the clones around 2005, with the
difference, that the apps are a more serious threat because they look
much better than the original Wikipedia site.
In those apps you don't see the edit button, the donate button nor the
site notice.
Even in Safari, the Apple browser, on an iPhone or iPad you usually
don't see the left side bar with the donate button.

I wonder whether in future we must take more, say, intrusive action to
make people see the donate features...

Kind regards
Ziko



2011/6/10 Steven Walling :
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 6:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I am getting ready do to a little traveling. It works out that traveling
>> light is going to be my best bet for various reasons. As I don't want to
>> carry around the weight of a laptop; I have purchased a little closer to the
>> cutting edge than I generally do. In setting up my iPad this is what shocked
>> me.  It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't to worrisome. I
>> figured "there's an app for that". I searched "Wikipedia" and was presented
>> with a large selection of apps that basically hide the fact that the
>> websites are even editable.  They offer helpful things to using the wiki on
>> small screen wrt to TOC and general navigation, but they also strip out all
>> the edit links.  After specifically searching for edit, I found one app that
>> made it possible to edit from iPad without pulling my hair out. [1].
>>
>>  The whole trend is a bit worrisome.  Ever since I got the device I really
>> don't want to use my laptop. I thought I would hate typing anything on it.
>>  But it not bad at all (and I am the sort to make sure and buy laptops with
>> full-size keyboards). People are going use  the free apps so long as WM
>> wikis are hard to navigate natively.  We will never convert readers to
>> editors if they reading with the editing interface stripped away. Do these
>> apps for read-only Wikipedia even support the central-notice? I am not sure.
>> Some seem to completely convert the website to a magazine appearance; some
>> seem more like sleek web-browser.
>>
>> I can't help but think that WMF does't jump in soon with an inexpensive app
>> which solves the difficulties of navigation while preserving the facets of
>> the site that are important to WMF, it will be harder to recover the losses
>> if this trend of hardware takes hold. I imagine an official WMF app would
>> get some sort of preference when searching "wikipedia" in the App Store,
>> which is why I really think the foundation might want to attend to this.
>>
>> BirgitteSB
>>
>
> Birgitte,
>
> You are absolutely correct.
>
> Just as an additional option for Wikipedians who use the iPad, I'd point out
> this little trick that makes it easier to edit from the browser:
> http://blog.tommorris.org/post/5662997343/custom-css-for-wikipedia-on-ipad
>
> There are a whole host of opportunities and risks on mobile for Wikimedia.
> You've clearly been thinking about this, so I think it would be helpful if
> you could add your ideas to the relevant Talk pages on strategy wiki.[1] [2]
> If you could write in detail about your experiences with the iPad that would
> be helpful to the mobile team I'm sure, as a case study in user experience.
>
> I completely share your fears about Wikipedia in an app-centric world. In
> general I'm glad to say that I hear all the time at the Foundation about
> what the mobile team is doing.
>
> This isn't iPad-relevant per se, but they're in the middle of rewriting the
> mobile site and making sure that all mobile browsers actually redirect
> there. Another thing that will make things better is that Kul is hiring a
> person to develop partnerships with mobile businesses. That means that, with
> both app makers and big companies like carriers, we will have more of a
> fighting chance to make our feelings about edit buttons, donations, proper
> licensing attribution, and other issues heard. There are lots more, but if
> you have ideas please share.
>
> Steven
>
> 1. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Product_Whitepaper
> 2. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Steven Walling]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 6:16 PM,  wrote:

> I am getting ready do to a little traveling. It works out that traveling
> light is going to be my best bet for various reasons. As I don't want to
> carry around the weight of a laptop; I have purchased a little closer to the
> cutting edge than I generally do. In setting up my iPad this is what shocked
> me.  It is near impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't to worrisome. I
> figured "there's an app for that". I searched "Wikipedia" and was presented
> with a large selection of apps that basically hide the fact that the
> websites are even editable.  They offer helpful things to using the wiki on
> small screen wrt to TOC and general navigation, but they also strip out all
> the edit links.  After specifically searching for edit, I found one app that
> made it possible to edit from iPad without pulling my hair out. [1].
>
>  The whole trend is a bit worrisome.  Ever since I got the device I really
> don't want to use my laptop. I thought I would hate typing anything on it.
>  But it not bad at all (and I am the sort to make sure and buy laptops with
> full-size keyboards). People are going use  the free apps so long as WM
> wikis are hard to navigate natively.  We will never convert readers to
> editors if they reading with the editing interface stripped away. Do these
> apps for read-only Wikipedia even support the central-notice? I am not sure.
> Some seem to completely convert the website to a magazine appearance; some
> seem more like sleek web-browser.
>
> I can't help but think that WMF does't jump in soon with an inexpensive app
> which solves the difficulties of navigation while preserving the facets of
> the site that are important to WMF, it will be harder to recover the losses
> if this trend of hardware takes hold. I imagine an official WMF app would
> get some sort of preference when searching "wikipedia" in the App Store,
> which is why I really think the foundation might want to attend to this.
>
> BirgitteSB
>

Birgitte,

You are absolutely correct.

Just as an additional option for Wikipedians who use the iPad, I'd point out
this little trick that makes it easier to edit from the browser:
http://blog.tommorris.org/post/5662997343/custom-css-for-wikipedia-on-ipad

There are a whole host of opportunities and risks on mobile for Wikimedia.
You've clearly been thinking about this, so I think it would be helpful if
you could add your ideas to the relevant Talk pages on strategy wiki.[1] [2]
If you could write in detail about your experiences with the iPad that would
be helpful to the mobile team I'm sure, as a case study in user experience.

I completely share your fears about Wikipedia in an app-centric world. In
general I'm glad to say that I hear all the time at the Foundation about
what the mobile team is doing.

This isn't iPad-relevant per se, but they're in the middle of rewriting the
mobile site and making sure that all mobile browsers actually redirect
there. Another thing that will make things better is that Kul is hiring a
person to develop partnerships with mobile businesses. That means that, with
both app makers and big companies like carriers, we will have more of a
fighting chance to make our feelings about edit buttons, donations, proper
licensing attribution, and other issues heard. There are lots more, but if
you have ideas please share.

Steven

1. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Product_Whitepaper
2. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mobile
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Birgitte_sb]

On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "K. Peachey"  wrote:

> Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the ipad?
> 
> ___
> 

I could edit from a browser, but it was rather difficult.  That difficulty 
wasn't really important, but just what motivated me to look for an app.  The 
issue I was writing about was what I found when searched the app store for 
"Wikipedia".  People using many "wikipedia apps" can't edit because most of the 
apps don't support editing. And these apps have a lot of ratings and there are 
a variety of them. So people must be using them.

BirgitteSB
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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[K. Peachey]

Why couldn't you edit it with the normal web browser in the ipad?

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[Foundation-l] Wikis and the direction hardware is taking

[Birgitte_sb]

I am getting ready do to a little traveling. It works out that traveling light 
is going to be my best bet for various reasons. As I don't want to carry around 
the weight of a laptop; I have purchased a little closer to the cutting edge 
than I generally do. In setting up my iPad this is what shocked me.  It is near 
impossible to edit a wiki.  Well that wasn't to worrisome. I figured "there's 
an app for that". I searched "Wikipedia" and was presented with a large 
selection of apps that basically hide the fact that the websites are even 
editable.  They offer helpful things to using the wiki on small screen wrt to 
TOC and general navigation, but they also strip out all the edit links.  After 
specifically searching for edit, I found one app that made it possible to edit 
from iPad without pulling my hair out. [1].

 The whole trend is a bit worrisome.  Ever since I got the device I really 
don't want to use my laptop. I thought I would hate typing anything on it.  But 
it not bad at all (and I am the sort to make sure and buy laptops with 
full-size keyboards). People are going use  the free apps so long as WM wikis 
are hard to navigate natively.  We will never convert readers to editors if 
they reading with the editing interface stripped away. Do these apps for 
read-only Wikipedia even support the central-notice? I am not sure. Some seem 
to completely convert the website to a magazine appearance; some seem more like 
sleek web-browser.
 
I can't help but think that WMF does't jump in soon with an inexpensive app 
which solves the difficulties of navigation while preserving the facets of the 
site that are important to WMF, it will be harder to recover the losses if this 
trend of hardware takes hold. I imagine an official WMF app would get some sort 
of preference when searching "wikipedia" in the App Store, which is why I 
really think the foundation might want to attend to this.

BirgitteSB

[1] http://www.wikieditapp.com/

Sent from my iPad
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