Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Platonides]

Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
> (and you still link it from
> the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).

Be polite. I would otherwise sympathise with your situation, but
DON'T-BE-RUDE.
Moreover, the first page of wikipedia is managed by wikipedians, not by
the developers...


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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Pedro Sanchez]

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Cetateanu
Moldovanu wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM, John Doe wrote:
>
>> ...
>
> consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
>
>
> I didn't try to underestimate the *importance* of wikipedia.
> It just uber-ridicule that a rename of subdomain (even with all those
> sub-things) can take more than 7 months..
> In this span of time someone motivated can launch a new wikipedia (I talk
> about the software), on the Internet things are happen fast.
>
> I don't try to underestimate your work, but I think you could do those
> things faster..
>
> And yes, wikipedia is one of "top ten websites", so much power, normally,
> that should involve you are more responsible, but I don't have such a
> feeling.
>
> Hopefully you can give to this *little* thing a higher priority, or maybe
> you should hire more devs, you are a "top ten websites" or what the hell.
>
> Deletion altogether of this subdomain is also acceptable, no point of
> keeping a dead locked wikipedia on a subdomain. (and you still link it from
> the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Mark Williamson  wrote:
>
>> If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that
>> patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will
>> usually get me much further than demands.
>
> As I said before, I'm a developer my self, and I know from my "experience",
> when something is not demanded, it is never implemented.
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
>>
>

*sigh* brion answered, let's everybody ignore further demands and
things will happen when will happen
we're just making  more and more noise by explaining to him over and
over that his request is not priority. Period.

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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Cetateanu Moldovanu]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM, John Doe wrote:

> ...

consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the


I didn't try to underestimate the *importance* of wikipedia.
It just uber-ridicule that a rename of subdomain (even with all those
sub-things) can take more than 7 months..
In this span of time someone motivated can launch a new wikipedia (I talk
about the software), on the Internet things are happen fast.

I don't try to underestimate your work, but I think you could do those
things faster..

And yes, wikipedia is one of "top ten websites", so much power, normally,
that should involve you are more responsible, but I don't have such a
feeling.

Hopefully you can give to this *little* thing a higher priority, or maybe
you should hire more devs, you are a "top ten websites" or what the hell.

Deletion altogether of this subdomain is also acceptable, no point of
keeping a dead locked wikipedia on a subdomain. (and you still link it from
the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Mark Williamson  wrote:

> If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that
> patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will
> usually get me much further than demands.

As I said before, I'm a developer my self, and I know from my "experience",
when something is not demanded, it is never implemented.

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM, David Gerard  wrote:

> I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
>

Your point was very valuable to this thread, thank you. Amazingly, you
"don't care" but you still wrote.

I care (my friends cares, my parents cares, my neighbours cares), and I will
write as many time it will need.
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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Mark Williamson]

Okay, I can agree with that.

Mark

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> 2009/7/10 Mark Williamson :
>
>> I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a
>> different approach be taken to resolution.
>
>
> I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
>
>
> - d.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[David Gerard]

2009/7/10 Mark Williamson :

> I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a
> different approach be taken to resolution.


I am. Nobody cares, approximately.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Mark Williamson]

If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that
patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will
usually get me much further than demands.

There are of course situations where it is necessary to be firm,
however this is not one of them considering the power dynamic. If I
want a developer to do something for me, the last thing I will do is
demand they do it (mind you it's been several years since I asked
anything of them as far as I can remember). It's certainly possible
that they will forget about my request so I may remind them from time
to time, but it's essential to recognize that they are very busy
people, an already-locked Wikipedia with only several hundred articles
is understandably going to be much lower on their list of priorities
than problems involving the heavy traffic Wikis such as en.wp or
de.wp.

I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a
different approach be taken to resolution.

Mark

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:14 PM, geni wrote:
> 2009/7/10 John Doe :
>> Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from
>> developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also
>> consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
>> internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers
>> would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen
>> factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than
>> what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the
>> current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET
>> THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking
>> things
>
> Given the current time over which the request has been ongoing and the
> politics involved (remeber they only stopped shooting each other
> 17years ago) I think it is understandable if people are not entirely
> prepared to sit back and hope the devs get on with it.
>
> --
> geni
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[geni]

2009/7/10 John Doe :
> Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from
> developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also
> consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
> internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers
> would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen
> factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than
> what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the
> current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET
> THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking
> things

Given the current time over which the request has been ongoing and the
politics involved (remeber they only stopped shooting each other
17years ago) I think it is understandable if people are not entirely
prepared to sit back and hope the devs get on with it.

-- 
geni

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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[John Doe]

Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from
developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also
consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers
would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen
factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than
what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the
current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET
THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking
things

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Cetateanu Moldovanu
wrote:

> Hello Mister Vibber,
>
> I'm glad to see you already made a plan, I supose you know the best
> mediawiki and wikipedia architecture, aren't there anybody else to execute
> those points from that plan ?
>
> Even if those points sounds havy, since the number of articles&files from
> mo
> is not so high, I'm sure you can do all those points in a day or two of
> work.
>
> >for each of 22 clusters
> I'm sure you have a script to execute a command on all clusters at once and
> see the results.
>
> Or in the meantime you build a "infrastructure for conveniently renaming
> sites", you can put in place a temporary solution that is easier to build.
> You could just make a new vhost(mo-cyrill) that point to the same dir as
> mo.
> And for mo you could make a htaccess (or equivalent) that would redirect
> all
> the request to the mo-cyrill (with a script that get REQUEST_URI and output
> a redirect header).
>
> Hope to hear you soon.
>
> Best regards,
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Brion Vibber  wrote:
>
> > Hi Cetateanu --
> >
> > As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently
> > renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and there's
> > nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher on our
> > priority list than the other sites that have language code renames
> pending.
> >
> > Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text
> storage
> > as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll see if
> we
> > can make sure it's on the radar at least...
> >
> >
> > The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the
> > number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and
> > tested for safety first:
> >
> > * Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language
> > code
> >
> > * Lock site
> >
> > * Rename public file storage subdirectories
> >
> > * Rename private file storage subdirectories
> >
> > * Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code
> >
> > * Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database,
> > rename all tables, drop old empty database)
> >
> > * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
> >
> > * Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22
> > clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty
> databases)
> >
> > * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
> >
> > * Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...
> >
> > * Unlock site
> >
> > * Rename or move data dump archives
> >
> > * Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels,
> > interwiki links, or other output.
> >
> >
> > -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
> >
> >
> > Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
> >
> >> *Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
> >>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html**youhave
>  promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now
> >> and mo is still not yet renamed.*
> >>
> >> * *
> >> *
> >> If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
> >>  Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
> >>  Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be
> >> done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing
> if
> >> you have a lack of resources !
> >>  IT'S IMPORTANT !
> >> *
> >>
> >
> >
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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Cetateanu Moldovanu]

Hello Mister Vibber,

I'm glad to see you already made a plan, I supose you know the best
mediawiki and wikipedia architecture, aren't there anybody else to execute
those points from that plan ?

Even if those points sounds havy, since the number of articles&files from mo
is not so high, I'm sure you can do all those points in a day or two of
work.

>for each of 22 clusters
I'm sure you have a script to execute a command on all clusters at once and
see the results.

Or in the meantime you build a "infrastructure for conveniently renaming
sites", you can put in place a temporary solution that is easier to build.
You could just make a new vhost(mo-cyrill) that point to the same dir as mo.
And for mo you could make a htaccess (or equivalent) that would redirect all
the request to the mo-cyrill (with a script that get REQUEST_URI and output
a redirect header).

Hope to hear you soon.

Best regards,

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Brion Vibber  wrote:

> Hi Cetateanu --
>
> As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently
> renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and there's
> nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher on our
> priority list than the other sites that have language code renames pending.
>
> Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text storage
> as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll see if we
> can make sure it's on the radar at least...
>
>
> The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the
> number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and
> tested for safety first:
>
> * Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language
> code
>
> * Lock site
>
> * Rename public file storage subdirectories
>
> * Rename private file storage subdirectories
>
> * Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code
>
> * Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database,
> rename all tables, drop old empty database)
>
> * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
>
> * Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22
> clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty databases)
>
> * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
>
> * Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...
>
> * Unlock site
>
> * Rename or move data dump archives
>
> * Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels,
> interwiki links, or other output.
>
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
>
>
> Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
>
>> *Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html**you
>>  have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now
>> and mo is still not yet renamed.*
>>
>> * *
>> *
>> If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
>>  Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
>>  Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be
>> done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing if
>> you have a lack of resources !
>>  IT'S IMPORTANT !
>> *
>>
>
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Brion Vibber]

Hi Cetateanu --

As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently 
renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and 
there's nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher 
on our priority list than the other sites that have language code 
renames pending.

Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text 
storage as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll 
see if we can make sure it's on the radar at least...


The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the 
number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and 
tested for safety first:

* Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language code

* Lock site

* Rename public file storage subdirectories

* Rename private file storage subdirectories

* Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code

* Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database, 
rename all tables, drop old empty database)

* Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated

* Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22 
clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty databases)

* Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated

* Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...

* Unlock site

* Rename or move data dump archives

* Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels, 
interwiki links, or other output.


-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)


Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
> *Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 
> **http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html**
>  you 
> have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now 
> and mo is still not yet renamed.*
> * *
> *
> If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
>  
> Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
>  
> Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be 
> done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing 
> if you have a lack of resources !
>  
> IT'S IMPORTANT !
> *


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[Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !!

[Cetateanu Moldovanu]

*Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html*
* you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July
now and mo is still not yet renamed.*
* *
*If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.

Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.

Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be done,
also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing if you have
a lack of resources !

IT'S IMPORTANT !
*
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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !

[Marcus Buck]

Brion Vibber hett schreven:
> and there are plenty of things most members 
> of this list would rather see us do first. :)
>   
Great to hear you are working on world peace...
As the developments on 'things most members of this list would like to 
see' are rather slow, I'd say, you should urgently hire some more 
people, who help you do the tasks that need to be done, or alternatively 
make access to administrative tools easier, so that voluntary helpers 
can help you do the tasks that need to be done.

Marcus Buck
User:Slomox



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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !

[Brion Vibber]

On 4/6/09 3:28 PM, Casey Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Cetateanu Moldovanu
>   wrote:
>> * you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's april
>> now and mo is still not yet renamed.*
>
> None of the wikis have been moved yet, it's not that this situation is
> specific to mowiki.

No idea why this was sent to foundation-l since I already answered 
directly...

Wikis have not been renamed yet since we have no infrastructure for 
doing it. The requests are in the system and will be reached when we 
have an opportunity to set up a renaming infrastructure -- none of the 
renames are high priority, and there are plenty of things most members 
of this list would rather see us do first. :)

-- brion

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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/4/7 Mark Williamson :
> "It's important"? That's subjective.

Isn't importance always subjective? What's your point?

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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !

[Robert Rohde]

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Mark Williamson  wrote:
> "It's important"? That's subjective.

I have zero interest in the Moldovan Wikipedia, but I would generally
say it is important that agreed upon maintenance tasks not linger for
months without end.

-Robert Rohde

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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !

[Mark Williamson]

"It's important"? That's subjective.


2009/4/6 Cetateanu Moldovanu :
> *Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html*
> * you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's april
> now and mo is still not yet renamed.*
> *
> If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
>
> Hope to get a ETA.
>
> Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be done.
>
> IT'S IMPORTANT !*
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Re: [Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !

[Casey Brown]

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Cetateanu Moldovanu
 wrote:
> * you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's april
> now and mo is still not yet renamed.*

None of the wikis have been moved yet, it's not that this situation is
specific to mowiki.

-- 
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

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[Foundation-l] mo.wikipedia is not yet renamed to mo-cyrill as it was promised !

[Cetateanu Moldovanu]

*Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html*
* you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's april
now and mo is still not yet renamed.*
*
If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.

Hope to get a ETA.

Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be done.

IT'S IMPORTANT !*
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