Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
Is this really something to get upset over? It's not as if he was calling you stupid, he simply misspelled your name (shortened it, really). On Feb 16, 2012 6:10 AM, "Joan Goma" wrote: > Jan-Bart, > > I am sorry. I didn’t know this is your name and present you publicly my > more sincere apologies for misstyping it. > > I personally know the sensitivity about this kind of issues. My name in > Catalan sounds completely different with accent than without. “Gomà” is a > quite extended and ancient Catalan surname while “goma” in Catalan means > rubber. I had to get used with this many years ago because in Spanish they > don’t have accents for capital letters that’s how many official documents > are written and more recently because in many computer keywords there is no > way to write "à". > > I assure you that this mistake has been because I didn’t know and that this > won’t happen never again. > > >Béria Lima berialima at gmail.com > >Thu Feb 16 04:09:27 UTC 2012 > > > >Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained. > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On 16 February 2012 11:27, John Du Hart wrote: > Is this really something to get upset over? It's not as if he was calling > you stupid, he simply misspelled your name (shortened it, really). People's own names are extremely important to them. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On 16 February 2012 12:32, David Gerard wrote: > On 16 February 2012 11:27, John Du Hart wrote: > >> Is this really something to get upset over? It's not as if he was calling >> you stupid, he simply misspelled your name (shortened it, really). > > > People's own names are extremely important to them. Very true. When I was in school learning journalism, that was the only way to get an automatic fail: getting someone's name wrong. (Now I say that, I guess you also failed if you plagiarized or fabricated. But getting someone's name wrong was the most seemingly-trivial way to fail.) While we're on the topic, here's a public service announcement. It's Bishakha Datta, not Bishaka Datta. The single most-frequently misspelled name on our lists, AFAICT. Also, Erik Moeller or Erik Möller with umlaut. Never Erik Moller with no umlaut :-) Thanks, Sue ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
I find "oi, you" works pretty well! ;) On Feb 16, 2012 3:09 PM, "Sue Gardner" wrote: > On 16 February 2012 12:32, David Gerard wrote: > > On 16 February 2012 11:27, John Du Hart wrote: > > > >> Is this really something to get upset over? It's not as if he was > calling > >> you stupid, he simply misspelled your name (shortened it, really). > > > > > > People's own names are extremely important to them. > > Very true. When I was in school learning journalism, that was the only > way to get an automatic fail: getting someone's name wrong. (Now I say > that, I guess you also failed if you plagiarized or fabricated. But > getting someone's name wrong was the most seemingly-trivial way to > fail.) > > While we're on the topic, here's a public service announcement. It's > Bishakha Datta, not Bishaka Datta. The single most-frequently > misspelled name on our lists, AFAICT. Also, Erik Moeller or Erik > Möller with umlaut. Never Erik Moller with no umlaut :-) > > Thanks, > Sue > > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Sue Gardner wrote: > While we're on the topic, here's a public service announcement. It's > Bishakha Datta, not Bishaka Datta. The single most-frequently > misspelled name on our lists, AFAICT. Also, Erik Moeller or Erik > Möller with umlaut. Never Erik Moller with no umlaut :-) Oh cmon we're not going to start using umlauts (exception - heavy metal umlauts?). Erik has to settle with having his name misspelled, unless he considers changing it. ;) (think of all the time-saving from looking at the alt-key codes for us non-German keyboard users) Regards Theo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On Feb 16, 2012 3:22 PM, "Theo10011" wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Sue Gardner wrote: > > > While we're on the topic, here's a public service announcement. It's > > Bishakha Datta, not Bishaka Datta. The single most-frequently > > misspelled name on our lists, AFAICT. Also, Erik Moeller or Erik > > Möller with umlaut. Never Erik Moller with no umlaut :-) > > > Oh cmon we're not going to start using umlauts (exception - heavy metal > umlauts?). > > Erik has to settle with having his name misspelled, unless he considers > changing it. ;) > (think of all the time-saving from looking at the alt-key codes for us > non-German keyboard users) As Sue said, oe is an accepted way of saying ö if you can't easily get the umlaut. Using o is just wrong (it would be pronounced completely differently). ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
I used to be really antsy over my name; to the point where, at school, I refused to be taught by one teach for a time because she kept calling me "Tom". Nowadays even I call myself that. Surely normal social convention applies; if someone raises the issue then "Don't be a dick" and take extra care. Otherwise slip ups/confusion/mistakes shouldn't be the end of the world... Tom (P.S. it now wierds me out when people call me Thomas... go figure :)) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
> Surely normal social convention applies; if someone raises the issue then > "Don't be a dick" and take extra care. Otherwise slip > ups/confusion/mistakes shouldn't be the end of the world... > > If we're discussing this; my name is correctly pronounced "Oliver Keyes, God of Delphi, Sol, and all Ethereal Planes Known and As-Yet Undiscovered" (Don't worry if you've got it wrong before; the silent G catches everyone out) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On Feb 16, 2012 3:47 PM, "Thomas Morton" wrote: > > I used to be really antsy over my name; to the point where, at school, I > refused to be taught by one teach for a time because she kept calling me > "Tom". Nowadays even I call myself that. > > Surely normal social convention applies; if someone raises the issue then > "Don't be a dick" and take extra care. Otherwise slip > ups/confusion/mistakes shouldn't be the end of the world... > > Tom > > (P.S. it now wierds me out when people call me Thomas... go figure) I know exactly what you mean! I used to insist on being called Thomas, but now even introduce myself as Tom. Wikimedians often call me Thomas because that's what I have gmail set to call me and they know me mostly from emails. While I don't mind at all, it sounds (or looks) strange to me every time. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
Moller, Moeller, Möller Why is it that Горбачёв is Gorbachev, but Семён is always Semyon. Spare some thought for all the Semyons out there who may have their name mispelled. On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Thomas Morton wrote: > I used to be really antsy over my name; to the point where, at school, I > refused to be taught by one teach for a time because she kept calling me > "Tom". Nowadays even I call myself that. > > Surely normal social convention applies; if someone raises the issue then > "Don't be a dick" and take extra care. Otherwise slip > ups/confusion/mistakes shouldn't be the end of the world... > > Tom > > (P.S. it now wierds me out when people call me Thomas... go figure :)) > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
Oliver Keyes wrote: If we're discussing this; my name is correctly pronounced "Oliver Keyes, God of Delphi, Sol, and all Ethereal Planes Known and As-Yet Undiscovered" OLLIE! OLLIE! OLLIE! Carmen Yarrusso ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote: > If we're discussing this; my name is correctly pronounced "Oliver Keyes, > God of Delphi, Sol, and all Ethereal Planes Known and As-Yet Undiscovered" Olly olly oxen free! (with a silent G) Theo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On 16 February 2012 17:04, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On Feb 16, 2012 3:47 PM, "Thomas Morton" > Wikimedians often call me Thomas because that's what I have gmail set to > call me and they know me mostly from emails. While I don't mind at all, it > sounds (or looks) strange to me every time. LOL, I was thinking exactly that as I read Tom Morton's note. I *always* call you Thomas. And although I try, I have difficulty calling Michael Peel Mike. I do however correctly address James Forrester, in person, as Jimbo. And -- in the event the OP is still here, Joan Gomà, how are you properly addressed in person? I have heard people say things like "When does Gomà arrive in Paris" and I have also been using that. But you should presumably be addressed as Joan -- and presumably with the J sound pronounced as a Y? Thanks, Sue ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
Agreed. As one of those whose name is frequently butchered due to our medium of communications (who knows how I want it pronounced until/unless you meet me or someone who's met me?), the criteria I use in judging offense is "Has this person ever been told by me how I prefer to be addressed? If not, then see step 1. If so, a mild reminder is in order." The mild reminders tend to escalate. After the point of reminder, common courtesy dictates extra care on the part of the person referring to you. My friend Aphaia did this very kindly with me years ago, and I have never gotten it wrong since, to my knowledge. An exception: I'll be damned if I'm writing out ""Oliver Keyes, God of Delphi, Sol, and all Ethereal Planes Known and As-Yet Undiscovered" because I won't grant - in writing - my own claims to those ethereal planes. :-) pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:46 AM, Thomas Morton wrote: > I used to be really antsy over my name; to the point where, at school, I > refused to be taught by one teach for a time because she kept calling me > "Tom". Nowadays even I call myself that. > > Surely normal social convention applies; if someone raises the issue then > "Don't be a dick" and take extra care. Otherwise slip > ups/confusion/mistakes shouldn't be the end of the world... > > Tom > > (P.S. it now wierds me out when people call me Thomas... go figure :)) > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On Feb 16, 2012 3:22 PM, "Theo10011" wrote: >> >> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Sue Gardner > wrote: >> >> > While we're on the topic, here's a public service announcement. It's >> > Bishakha Datta, not Bishaka Datta. The single most-frequently >> > misspelled name on our lists, AFAICT. Also, Erik Moeller or Erik >> > Möller with umlaut. Never Erik Moller with no umlaut :-) >> >> >> Oh cmon we're not going to start using umlauts (exception - heavy metal >> umlauts?). >> >> Erik has to settle with having his name misspelled, unless he considers >> changing it. ;) >> (think of all the time-saving from looking at the alt-key codes for us >> non-German keyboard users) > > As Sue said, oe is an accepted way of saying ö if you can't easily get the > umlaut. Using o is just wrong (it would be pronounced completely > differently). I would beg to disagree. And remind people that in the computer world a keyboard that doesn't have the umlaut is a very strange keyboard indeed. Our co-belligerents of yore, the Germans may silently grit their teeth, because in their case the offence is not perpetrated that often. But as a Finn I can tell you that "accept" is not even near the mark.The problem is orders of magnitude worse, because there are surnames that have no vowels but the letters ä and ö in them. The NBA basketball player "Moettoelae" (mispelled for effect) for instance. The most egregiously crawing (people still often fume over the incident in late night bar conversations) case was when we got the Wintersport World Championships to Finland. Granted this was before the universal standard PC keyboards and proper international character sets. In our homegames, our sportslovers had watch these disfigured monsters of our countrymens names crawl on the ticker and show on the scoreboards. The ludicrous reason. Because of sponsorship deals, we couldn't use properly functioning computersystems that we would have plenty available suited to the task. If you believe as Sue appears to, that "o" for "ö" is simply wrong, all Finnish Hockey players from Finland have their names spelled "simply wrong" What's more there is a policy page on Wikipedia that is "simply wrong". Namely Wikipedia's policy page specifically dedicated to how players names should be spelled in the context of the National Hockey League. -- -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
Hoi, MediaWiki supports an input method for German in the Narayam extension. There is no "need" for alt key codes typing German... This was possibly created by Erik in anticipation of this need. Then again, it may be easier to refer to him as Erik. When this is not precise enough you could add the M. (as there is also a Z.) Thanks, Gerard On 16 February 2012 16:22, Theo10011 wrote: > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Sue Gardner > wrote: > > > While we're on the topic, here's a public service announcement. It's > > Bishakha Datta, not Bishaka Datta. The single most-frequently > > misspelled name on our lists, AFAICT. Also, Erik Moeller or Erik > > Möller with umlaut. Never Erik Moller with no umlaut :-) > > > Oh cmon we're not going to start using umlauts (exception - heavy metal > umlauts?). > > Erik has to settle with having his name misspelled, unless he considers > changing it. ;) > (think of all the time-saving from looking at the alt-key codes for us > non-German keyboard users) > > Regards > Theo > ___ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
On 18 February 2012 06:40, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: >> As Sue said, oe is an accepted way of saying ö if you can't easily get the >> umlaut. Using o is just wrong (it would be pronounced completely >> differently). > > I would beg to disagree. And remind people that in the computer world > a keyboard that doesn't have the umlaut is a very strange keyboard > indeed. > > Our co-belligerents of yore, the Germans may silently grit their > teeth, because in their case the offence is not perpetrated that > often. But as a Finn I can tell you that "accept" is not even near the > mark.The problem is orders of magnitude worse, because there are > surnames that have no vowels but the letters ä and ö in them. The NBA > basketball player "Moettoelae" (mispelled for effect) for instance. Sorry, I should have been more precise. I was referring only to German. As I understand it, Finnish doesn't really have umlauts. It uses the same symbol (just as English does), but for a different purpose. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)
JADP, but there's no keyboard-related reason for people to misspell my last name as "Goodwin," which is something I've encountered my whole life. My view is that it's normally best to tolerate the misspelling, unless there's some particular reason I want to ensure that my surname is spelled correctly. As someone who frequently must type in French, German, or Spanish, I wish it were a little easier to get access to accents and umlauts than it is on most keyboards I have to use, but I also think there are bigger issues to worry about, most of the time. The anglophone convention of typing, e.g., "Kurt Goedel" instead of "Kurt Gödel", is common enough that English-language versions of search engines will normally produce results for Gödel if you type in "Goedel." The general rule of etiquette is, I think, simply to try to get spelling (and pronunciation, and other things) right, and to ask the person in question if you're unsure. For example, although I don't believe I ever addressed Jan-Bart as "Jan", I do know that I was uncertain early on whether there is a hyphen in "Jan-Bart" (obviously, I figured out the answer to that question). --Mike ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
