Re: Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[Bastien Nocera]

Hey,

On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 18:37 -0500, Karen Sandler wrote:
> On Wed, January 9, 2013 5:28 pm, Tobias Mueller wrote:
> > Heya,
> >
> > On 09.01.2013 23:15, Andrew Cowie wrote:
> >> Would it be possible to set the moderation bit for Richard Stallman's
> >> posts to GNOME lists?
> > sure it would be. The list is managed by mailman and it has that feature.
> >
> >> As Stormy pointed out, every time there's a conversation about anything
> >> he jumps in and swerves off thread.
> > I see neither the "every time" nor the "swerving off" part. Even if I
> > did, I hope that it takes some more effort like providing references
> > before being able to block someone from posting to GNOME mailing lists.
> > Proof:
> > 
> 
> I agree.

I don't.

>  I should also note that Richard brings up a really solid point in
> his post,

Maybe, but it was completely irrelevant to the conversation. It's not
the Free Software Foundation's list, but the GNOME Foundation's list,
and it wasn't on-topic.

>  and while he should have started a different thread and perhaps
> worded it a little differently,

He gets away with things that we would be ostracised for. Before the
holidays I kept receiving e-mails from him asking me to call it
"GNU/Linux", and then to embrace the FSF when I explained that his
repeated mails harmed his message and that I would be more likely to
*not* say GNU/Linux because of his actions. Whilst calling me rude. And
arguing that he wasn't.

>  his post could be relevant to GNOME
> Foundation members to read.

I think his thoughts have been plenty publicised through other channels.

> Moreover, it's probably more polite to make requests about changes to
> moderation policy off-list to the admins,

Given that it's not possible to e-mail everyone but him, I certainly
think it's the correct way to proceed. So he can answer in passive
aggressive style.

Finally, I'd really like to know what contributions he made to GNOME
that would make him eligible to become a Foundation member. I cannot
find any.

Cheers

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Re: Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[meg ford]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Richard Stallman  wrote:

> Is there some practical reason why the Subject field makes a big
> difference to you?  Does it affect your mail reader's behavior
> substantially?  If changing the subject field helps people, I will try
> to remember to do it.
>

It does. Emails are organized in threads based on the subject field in many
email clients. That way, rather than trying to sort through emails to
follow where different threads in a conversation pick up and leave off, one
can simply read the pre-arranged email threads based on whether one is
interested in the subject.

I think it would make a big difference if you did this. Then people who are
interested in hearing your thoughts can read and respond to them and the
main topic can also continue.

Meg Ford
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Re: Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[Richard Stallman]

I'm amazed by the concept of "hijacking topics".  I did not realize
that a topic was so valuable.

I said we should react to spyware _as we would_ to a crime.  You
called my messages violent theft.  Spyware is more grave than
posting a message, but your criticism is stronger than mine.

My alleged crime, if I understand right, consists of not changing the
Subject field.  I confess I don't think about the Subject field when I
send a reply.  This is because I don't know of any reason it would
matter much to anyone.

Is there some practical reason why the Subject field makes a big
difference to you?  Does it affect your mail reader's behavior
substantially?  If changing the subject field helps people, I will try
to remember to do it.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

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Re: Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[Karen Sandler]

On Wed, January 9, 2013 5:28 pm, Tobias Mueller wrote:
> Heya,
>
> On 09.01.2013 23:15, Andrew Cowie wrote:
>> Would it be possible to set the moderation bit for Richard Stallman's
>> posts to GNOME lists?
> sure it would be. The list is managed by mailman and it has that feature.
>
>> As Stormy pointed out, every time there's a conversation about anything
>> he jumps in and swerves off thread.
> I see neither the "every time" nor the "swerving off" part. Even if I
> did, I hope that it takes some more effort like providing references
> before being able to block someone from posting to GNOME mailing lists.
> Proof:
> 

I agree. I should also note that Richard brings up a really solid point in
his post, and while he should have started a different thread and perhaps
worded it a little differently, his post could be relevant to GNOME
Foundation members to read.

Moreover, it's probably more polite to make requests about changes to
moderation policy off-list to the admins,

karen

>> but constantly hijacking other people's threads is getting
>> frustrating.
> You can probably tell your client easily to not display mails in these
> instances then.
> I don't think that your personal frustration should be the reason for
> everyone not to receive some type of email.
>
> Cheers,
>   Tobi
>
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>


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Re: Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[Tobias Mueller]

Heya,

On 09.01.2013 23:15, Andrew Cowie wrote:
> Would it be possible to set the moderation bit for Richard Stallman's
> posts to GNOME lists?
sure it would be. The list is managed by mailman and it has that feature.

> As Stormy pointed out, every time there's a conversation about anything he 
> jumps in and swerves off thread.
I see neither the "every time" nor the "swerving off" part. Even if I
did, I hope that it takes some more effort like providing references
before being able to block someone from posting to GNOME mailing lists.
Proof:


> but constantly hijacking other people's threads is getting
> frustrating.
You can probably tell your client easily to not display mails in these
instances then.
I don't think that your personal frustration should be the reason for
everyone not to receive some type of email.

Cheers,
  Tobi



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Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[Andrew Cowie]

Would it be possible to set the moderation bit for Richard Stallman's
posts to GNOME lists? As Stormy pointed out, every time there's a
conversation about anything he jumps in and swerves off thread. This has
been going on for a very long time.

People in the GNOME Foundation are the last people who need to be bashed
over the head about free software. I don't see any reason for him not to
start new threads on topics that are of concern to him as an individual
member, but constantly hijacking other people's threads is getting
frustrating. It's predictable; I see a foundation-list thread, count to
three, and sure enough, there's Richard jumping in with an off-topic
rant.

Given that Richard has been warned on several occasions and his replies
indicate that he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. I can see no
alternative but to moderate his posts. Otherwise, it would seem
unsubscribing from foundation-list will be the only way to get away from
this anti-social behaviour.

Richard's is an important voice in the free software movement, though I
don't happen to think his approach is effective in garnering allies or
support for his cause, and meanwhile it is causing significant
disruption.

AfC
Sydney



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Re: New Foundation Members

[Gil Forcada]

El dc 09 de 01 de 2013 a les 16:56 +0100, en/na Andrea Veri va escriure:
> Hello everybody! The GNOME Foundation Membership Committee is proud to 
> announce our newly approved Foundation Members. Please welcome and thank them 
> for their great and valuable contributions over the GNOME Foundation.
> 
> They are: *
> 
> 1.   Andreia Gaita (Gluezilla, Webkit#, gir-based C# bindings)
> 
> 2.   Praveen Illa (GNOME Telugu translator)
> 
> 3.   Marcus Moeller (GNOME Switzerland organizer, bug reporting,
> deployment of GNOME installations)
> 
> 4.   Carlos Soriano Sánchez (GNOME Shell message tray)
> 
> 5.   Izidor Matušov (RT #13190) (GTG maintainer) 
> 
> 6.   Carl-Anton Ingmarsson (gvfs, Anjuta, author of the gstreamer
> VDPAU plugins)
> 
> 7.   James Shubin (Bug reporting, deployment of GNOME installations) 
> 
> 8.   Anish A. (GNOME Malayalam translator)
> 
> 9.   Fabiano Fidêncio (GNOME Boxes, libosinfo contributions during
> GSoC) 
> 
> 10. Andika Triwidada (GNOME Indonesian translator)
> 
> 11. Nohemi Fernandez (GNOME Shell accessibility, GNOME Women
> promotion) 
> 
> 12. Kalev Lember (GHex and Nemiver contributions, GNOME package
> maintenance in Fedora, many patches submitted) 
> 
> 13. Aleksander Morgado (ModemManager, Tracker and Devhelp code
> contributions, many bugs and patches submitted)
> 
> 14. Khoem Sokhem (Khmer Translations Team coordinator) 
> 
> 15. Rui Tiago Cação Matos (Mutter, GNOME Shell, GNOME Control Center
> and GNOME Settings Daemon)
> 
> 16. Eslam Mostafa Abdel-Fattah (GNOME Clocks contributions and bug
> reporting) 
> 
> 17. Anish Patil (gnome-transliteration and IBus developer, Input
> Methods contributions)
> 
> 18. Emily Gonyer (Marketing, GNOME Clocks contributions during GSoC,
> GOPW) 
> 
> 19. Bertrand Rousseau (Co-founder of Getting Things GNOME, GSoC and
> GOPW mentoring)
> 
> 20. Sam Thursfield (Tracker, JHBuild porting, Bug triaging and fixing)
> 
> 
> * Syntax is Name Surname (area of involvement)
> In addition to them, we also have four new Emeritus Members: [1]
> 
> 1. James Henstridge (Initial author of the Python GTK and GNOME
> bindings, past Board member)
> 
> 2. Adam Weinberger (en_CA GNOME translation project leader, developed
> a backend framework that integrated GNOME into the FreeBSD ports tree)
> 
> 3. Filippo Argiolas (Past Cheese maintainer, many contributions to
> Gstreamer)
> 
> 4. Karsten Bräckelmann (Past Release Team member)
> 
> For any further question you may have, feel free to mail us at 
> membership-commit...@gnome.org.
> Best wishes,
> 
> The GNOME Foundation Membership Committee
> 
> [1] https://live.gnome.org/MembershipCommittee/EmeritusMembers


Wow!

Amazing to see so many translators becoming foundation members!
Congratulations and thanks to all of you for taking your time
translating GNOME into your language!

Cheers,


> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andrea



-- 
Gil Forcada

[ca] guifi.net - una xarxa lliure que no para de créixer
[en] guifi.net - a non-stopping free network
bloc: http://gil.badall.net
planet: http://planet.guifi.net

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Re: Reaching out to Amazon for credit?

[Richard Stallman]

No, but they are rude in context. The fact that you do not work within the
context of that particular conversation makes them rude.

On the contrary, I did exactly what was appropriate.  When someone
briefly mentioned Ubuntu, I briefly mentioned it, giving a link to
information about the issue.

That did not interfere with the discussion about hosting, which
will surely continue.  It was an aside.

Someone who works for Canonical posted a long apology for Ubuntu, so I
responded to it (as well as rebuking the groundless personal attack).

Each message was entirely appropriate in the situation where I sent
it.

Sorry, I did not see it as a personal attack.

Here's what that message said:

> Richard, I would appreciate if you didn't try to use every single
> opportunity that you had to speak negatively about other projects,

A more cut-and-ried personal attack, there cannot be.  It exaggerates
a negative into a falsehood then and attacks me with it.  I am
surprised you did not see this.

You've offered me help in being "more effective", but there is no
reason to think I have not been effective already.  I am not perfect,
but I have been rather effective generally.  GNOME's existence is a
part of that effect (see http://www.gnu.org/gnu/the-gnu-project.html
and search for GNOME).

Were my two messages about Ubuntu effective?  They provoked
opposition, but that doesn't mean they didn't do their job.  I am sure
that many of the GNOME developers on the list have read the article
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.html, and are now
concerned about the issue.  Perhaps even you will inform yourself
about the issue, though I can't force you.

Anyone who thinks there's a better way to raise this issue is welcome
to try that way.  If you do it better than I did, I will be glad to
step aside and leave it to you.

 and a plea to you to please help us all be more
effective in our efforts to promote free software.

The plea in his message was to overlook the Ubuntu spyware issue, to
accept such spyware as normal and legitimate for the sake of avoiding
disagreement.  That raises a substantial and important issue.

There is a reason we should overlook minor annoyances and mistakes of
other free software developers.  If we quarrel about things that we
could disregard, we will lose out.

However, when another free software project does something especially
bad, we must not overlook that, because tolerating that would lower
our whole community -- and we will lose out.

Spying on the user is mistreatment of the highest order.  In 29 years
of campaigning for free software, I have seen nothing worse than this,
and few things that are as bad.  If there is anything we should not
overlook, it is this.

Ubuntu is not entirely free software; but most of it is.  Use of
Ubuntu is not moving to free software, but is much closer than MacOS
or iOS.  Thus, in the past we could not endorse Ubuntu but most of the
time we did not need to bring up the issue.

However, if we want to promote free software effectively, we can't
ignore the spyware.  We have to make Canonical back off the spyware,
and cancel the announced plan to go even further and make Ubuntu offer
products from Amazon.

To work together to promote free software, the supporters of Ubuntu
must try to pull it back from spying while we outsiders push it away
from spying.  If they think Canonical's decision was a mistake, that's
a good start, but they need to go beyond just thinking so.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

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New Foundation Members

[Andrea Veri]

Hello everybody! The GNOME Foundation Membership Committee is proud to
announce our newly approved Foundation Members. Please welcome and
thank them for their great and valuable contributions over the GNOME
Foundation.


They are: *


1.   Andreia Gaita (Gluezilla, Webkit#, gir-based C# bindings)

2.   Praveen Illa (GNOME Telugu translator)

3.   Marcus Moeller (GNOME Switzerland organizer, bug reporting, deployment
of GNOME installations)

4.   Carlos Soriano Sánchez (GNOME Shell message tray)

5.   Izidor Matušov (RT #13190) (GTG maintainer)

6.   Carl-Anton Ingmarsson (gvfs, Anjuta, author of the gstreamer VDPAU
plugins)

7.   James Shubin (Bug reporting, deployment of GNOME installations)

8.   Anish A. (GNOME Malayalam translator)

9.   Fabiano Fidêncio (GNOME Boxes, libosinfo contributions during GSoC)

10. Andika Triwidada (GNOME Indonesian translator)

11. Nohemi Fernandez (GNOME Shell accessibility, GNOME Women promotion)

12. Kalev Lember (GHex and Nemiver contributions, GNOME package maintenance
in Fedora, many patches submitted)

13. Aleksander Morgado (ModemManager, Tracker and Devhelp code
contributions, many bugs and patches submitted)

14. Khoem Sokhem (Khmer Translations Team coordinator)

15. Rui Tiago Cação Matos (Mutter, GNOME Shell, GNOME Control Center and
GNOME Settings Daemon)

16. Eslam Mostafa Abdel-Fattah (GNOME Clocks contributions and bug
reporting)

17. Anish Patil (gnome-transliteration and IBus developer, Input Methods
contributions)

18. Emily Gonyer (Marketing, GNOME Clocks contributions during GSoC, GOPW)

19. Bertrand Rousseau (Co-founder of Getting Things GNOME, GSoC and GOPW
mentoring)

20. Sam Thursfield (Tracker, JHBuild porting, Bug triaging and fixing)

* Syntax is Name Surname (area of involvement)

In addition to them, we also have four new Emeritus Members: [1]


1. James Henstridge (Initial author of the Python GTK and GNOME bindings,
past Board member)

2. Adam Weinberger (en_CA GNOME translation project leader, developed a
backend framework that integrated GNOME into the FreeBSD ports tree)

3. Filippo Argiolas (Past Cheese maintainer, many contributions to
Gstreamer)

4. Karsten Bräckelmann (Past Release Team member)


For any further question you may have, feel free to mail us at
membership-commit...@gnome.org.

Best wishes,

The GNOME Foundation Membership Committee

[1] https://live.gnome.org/MembershipCommittee/EmeritusMembers



-- 
Cheers,

Andrea

Debian Developer,
Fedora / EPEL packager,
GNOME Sysadmin,
GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman

Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/~av
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