Re: GNOME, Bounties and paid development [Was: Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?]
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Germán Poo-Caamaño wrote: > Luis > worried that making the TODO list the Bountie list was > dangerous, because people might end up doing only the things > people pay for. Have we already started down this slop already > with company involvement? > > > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2004-August/msg00173.html > > I think Luis Villa's concern still is valid. Almost a decade old. Jeebus. With that out of the way: it is still a valid concern, but there are ways around it - since that time a variety of crowdfunding sites have sprung up that could let people other than the Foundation pitch in and select goals. Luis ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME, Bounties and paid development [Was: Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?]
[Resending in full, as in my previous I accidentally pressed the Send button by mistake] On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 15:43 -0500, meg ford wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Tristan Van Berkom < > tris...@upstairslabs.com> wrote: > > > > I think perhaps, if we organized bounties which clearly and definitely > > improve software that industry is going to use, and not only for the > > singular purpose of the GNOME Desktop Environment, then perhaps we would > > be able to get some real backers in the industry to come together with > > us and put together a bounty that is worth bidding for. > > I think there are two ways to approach this: (1) the way you suggest above; > and (2) by having smaller bounties which do not require a bidding process > and can be picked up by contributors who would generally donate time, but > could use some extra money in order to afford to contribute their time. Either way, there is a high administrative overhead, as it was proven in the past when Novell (in communication with GNOME Foundation), and then GNOME Foundation with the help of Google tried bounties. All of them for GNOME. Before going to some details, the short story is: the outcome was what we know now as Google Summer of Code. I don't pretend anyone stop pursuing bounties on GNOME, but please, don't start from scratch, dig the board meetings, the mailing list archives, and any other source of information. This has been discussed lengthly in the past. Some of the administrative things you have to consider: * Determine the issues you want to fix, assess them and put them value. * Set the rules * Getting the maintainers involved to: (1) check if the fix is worth, (2) review the patches, (3) pushing them in master * People to track the patches, update status of bounties (to avoid double work for potential contributors) * All the dance to exclude people from certain places where GNOME Foundation cannot send money to, get bank information, wire money, track everything was good, and makes that everything goes well that IRS won't complain. * ... Also, what is the goal you want to pursue? Who would you expect to apply for? Don't even mention that for maintainers will have to spend some time for answering questions, to answer how the things work they way the do, things they don't want to see in their projects, and so on. I quote an email of Nat (somehow forwarded to wikimedia foundation): [...] One quick point on numbers: only 11 bounties have been paid, but we've had patch submissions on >50% of the total bounties; release engineering timelines have made it hard for bounty submitters to get some of their patches accepted by module maintainers, and therefore paid, so that contributes to the small number of paid bounties you see. One thing that's surprising is that pretty much all of our bounty submissions came from first-world economies. Despite efforts to promote the bounties heavily in e.g. India. I think there's a need for a bounty administration infrastructure; some piece of software that can run these programs automatically, instead of the mostly hand-generated web pages I wrote. http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/797 Current board members can dig in the board-list archives from 2003-2006-ish, to get more details. I bet there are also here in this list, and in the board meeting minutes, for example, from 2004-08: Nat gave a summary of the current situation with the Bounties. We've reached the 1st round and so far give out $7460 for 10 bounties. It's currently stalled because of an Evolution code freeze - will launch again soon with a new deadline. The Bounties are proving to be effective in attracting new Evolution developers. Nat asked if it would be useful to have a general mechanism where anybody could put money against a bug item? Owen asked if it was more interesting maintaining a TODO list. Luis worried that making the TODO list the Bountie list was dangerous, because people might end up doing only the things people pay for. Have we already started down this slop already with company involvement? https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2004-August/msg00173.html I think Luis Villa's concern still is valid. The first try was "Desktop Integration Bounty Hunt", funded by Novell but "lead" by GNOME Foundation: http://web.archive.org/web/20070210190246/http://www.gnome.org/bounties/ The next time, it was funded by Google, applying some experience from the previous bounty hunt: http://web.archive.org/web/20070208175703/http://www.gnome.org/bounties/Google.html This was before GSoC exists, but it starts to resemble it. There was even a wiki pa
Re: GNOME, Bounties and paid development [Was: Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?]
On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 15:43 -0500, meg ford wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Tristan Van Berkom < > tris...@upstairslabs.com> wrote: > > > > I think perhaps, if we organized bounties which clearly and definitely > > improve software that industry is going to use, and not only for the > > singular purpose of the GNOME Desktop Environment, then perhaps we would > > be able to get some real backers in the industry to come together with > > us and put together a bounty that is worth bidding for. > > I think there are two ways to approach this: (1) the way you suggest above; > and (2) by having smaller bounties which do not require a bidding process > and can be picked up by contributors who would generally donate time, but > could use some extra money in order to afford to contribute their time. Either way, there is a high administrative overhead, as it was proven in the past when Novell (in communication with GNOME Foundation), and then GNOME Foundation with the help of Google tried bounties. All of them for GNOME. Before going to some details, the short story is: the outcome was what we know now as Google Summer of Code. Some of the administrative things you have to consider: * Determine the issues you want to fix, assess them and put them value. * Set the rules * Getting the maintainers involved to: (1) check if the fix is worth, (2) review the patches, (3) pushing them in master * People to track the patches, update status of bounties (to avoid double work for potential contributors) * All the dance to exclude people from certain places where GNOME Foundation cannot send money to, get bank information, wire money, track everything was good, and makes that everything goes well that IRS won't complain. * ... Also, what is the goal you want to pursue? Who would you expect to apply for? I quote an email of Nat (somehow forwarded to wikimedia foundation): [...] One quick point on numbers: only 11 bounties have been paid, but we've had patch submissions on >50% of the total bounties; release engineering timelines have made it hard for bounty submitters to get some of their patches accepted by module maintainers, and therefore paid, so that contributes to the small number of paid bounties you see. One thing that's surprising is that pretty much all of our bounty submissions came from first-world economies. Despite efforts to promote the bounties heavily in e.g. India. I think there's a need for a bounty administration infrastructure; some piece of software that can run these programs automatically, instead of the mostly hand-generated web pages I wrote. http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/797 Current board members can dig in the board-list archives from 2003-2006-ish, to get more details. I bet there are also here in this list, and in the board meeting minutes, for example, from 2004-08: Nat gave a summary of the current situation with the Bounties. We've reached the 1st round and so far give out $7460 for 10 bounties. It's currently stalled because of an Evolution code freeze - will launch again soon with a new deadline. The Bounties are proving to be effective in attracting new Evolution developers. Nat asked if it would be useful to have a general mechanism where anybody could put money against a bug item? Owen asked if it was more interesting maintaining a TODO list. Luis worried that making the TODO list the Bountie list was dangerous, because people might end up doing only the things people pay for. Have we already started down this slop already with company involvement? The first try was "Desktop Integration Bounty Hunt", funded by Novell but "lead" by GNOME Foundation: http://web.archive.org/web/20070210190246/http://www.gnome.org/bounties/ http://web.archive.org/web/20070208175703/http://www.gnome.org/bounties/Google.html -- Germán Poo-Caamaño http://calcifer.org/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: preparing for the use of the Privacy campaign funds
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Jeff Fortin wrote: > (Forking this particular topic out of the OPW discussion) > > > Le dimanche 14 septembre 2014 à 18:45 -0500, Michael Catanzaro a écrit : > >> > [...] it's been a year since we collected the privacy campaign >> > money; I guess we still have no clue what we're doing with it? :) > Therefore, to anyone reading this, in light of the formation of the > Safety Team and the safety/privacy BoF session that occurred at GUADEC, > it would help tremendously if you (as individuals and as a team) would > start coming up with a specific action plan and make a proposal to the > board. You are probably better positioned than us to focus on this > particular task. As a member of the engagement team and someone who thinks this topic is very important its great to finally see some progress on this. > For example, thinking of some bounty system where you have one or more > projects with specific "deliverables" as part of those projects, with > requirements for applicants to demonstrate that they can accomplish the > task, under which conditions, etc. Basically, a traditional public > "request for proposals" system. Interesting approach. Will think about this and let the board/list know if something comes to mind. -- -mvh Oliver Propst ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME, Bounties and paid development [Was: Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?]
Hi, On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Tristan Van Berkom < tris...@upstairslabs.com> wrote: > > I think perhaps, if we organized bounties which clearly and definitely > improve software that industry is going to use, and not only for the > singular purpose of the GNOME Desktop Environment, then perhaps we would > be able to get some real backers in the industry to come together with > us and put together a bounty that is worth bidding for. I think there are two ways to approach this: (1) the way you suggest above; and (2) by having smaller bounties which do not require a bidding process and can be picked up by contributors who would generally donate time, but could use some extra money in order to afford to contribute their time. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
GNOME, Bounties and paid development [Was: Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?]
Changing topic as this thread has branched in many directions (as others later in this thread pointed out). On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 15:16 +0200, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 13:58 +0200, Sébastien Wilmet wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 09:51:15AM +0100, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: > > > The approach to budgeting is similar in that the Foundation and Google > > > both have a budget, but our budgets are quite different. Any spending > > > in any area means that that money cannot be spent in another area. > > > > What if the Foundation decides to just organize OPW, which is already a > > good contribution, but doesn't sponsor itself interns? By doing that, > > the saving permits to spend the $10k or $5k on something else, like > > sponsoring an experienced member of the Foundation instead of sponsoring > > newcomers. > > > > For example when a Friends of Gnome campaign (like for the accessibility > > or security) is finished, the Gnome Foundation could add $5k to it. > > What exactly do you hope to achieve by saving $5k? > > One of the problems for the Friends Of GNOME campaigns is that we have > trouble finding interested parties to work so cheaply to implement the > goals we set out. When I was on the board, I put together 2 call of bids > for those campaigns, and I constantly heard from consultancies that the > amount was so low that the only reason that they would be interested in > it was to help GNOME. I doubt that the amount is significant enough to > pay the people necessary to achieve the goals we set out. I just wanted to lend a little insight into this as someone who was faced with what probably was one of your bounties. I hope I can help to clarify the situation to other readers (as I suspect Bastien already understands this pretty well) from the point of view of a consultant. At Openismus we did briefly consider submitting a bid for what if I recall correctly was a $50,000 bid which had to do with improving the onscreen keyboard with regards to localization (things are a bit fuzzy, it was a long time ago and I don't recall all the details). The problem I perceive here is that we submit detailed proposals all the time, things that we work very hard on, which does incur risk that needs to be mitigated somehow or covered in the operational budget of the consultancy. In my opinion, submitting a less than professional bid is not an option, and can even be severely damaging to your reputation as an individual or a company. My rough estimation is that the cost of the work involved simply in preparing a bid for this bounty is anywhere between $5,000 to $10,000, I could be underestimating that as I did not have intimate knowledge of what operational overhead this would incur on top of the analysis and work which must go into preparing an acceptable bid. I know that these bounties were presented with the best intentions and really appreciated to see movement on that front, however I don't really see how that can work well unless we, the foundation can really afford it. In another light, if there was a way to sweep all of the bidding overhead under the rug, then it might have been alright to work on that bounty even if 50K might have been considerably lower than what we might have normally asked for that work (as you mention, it would be a sort of favor to GNOME). Of course without a proper bidding process then it would be unfair, the whole thing is very complex and as such, I'm not sure that it's the best option for the foundation's spending. I think perhaps, if we organized bounties which clearly and definitely improve software that industry is going to use, and not only for the singular purpose of the GNOME Desktop Environment, then perhaps we would be able to get some real backers in the industry to come together with us and put together a bounty that is worth bidding for. Best Regards, -Tristan ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: preparing for the use of the Privacy campaign funds
(Forking this particular topic out of the OPW discussion) Le dimanche 14 septembre 2014 à 18:45 -0500, Michael Catanzaro a écrit : > > [...] it's been a year since we collected the privacy campaign > > money; I guess we still have no clue what we're doing with it? :) Le mardi 16 septembre 2014 à 13:18 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit : > finding deliverables and finding people capable of defining them in an > actionable way proved to be a real challenge. the last time I was > involved with it, it seemed that the board found some potential > candidates. I'll let somebody on the current board elaborate. I do not recall us (the Board) having thought of "candidates" for work as part of the Privacy campaign yet. Elaborating a plan for the use of those funds is a topic that I wanted to bring to discussion in board meetings, but so far, due to lack of time and information, this has not happened yet. Therefore, to anyone reading this, in light of the formation of the Safety Team and the safety/privacy BoF session that occurred at GUADEC, it would help tremendously if you (as individuals and as a team) would start coming up with a specific action plan and make a proposal to the board. You are probably better positioned than us to focus on this particular task. For example, thinking of some bounty system where you have one or more projects with specific "deliverables" as part of those projects, with requirements for applicants to demonstrate that they can accomplish the task, under which conditions, etc. Basically, a traditional public "request for proposals" system. https://wiki.gnome.org/SafetyTeam/MeetingDocumentation is not in an actionable state for the board to consider yet, in my humble opinion. Thanks! ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?
On 09/17/2014 01:58 PM, Sébastien Wilmet wrote: On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 09:51:15AM +0100, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: The approach to budgeting is similar in that the Foundation and Google both have a budget, but our budgets are quite different. Any spending in any area means that that money cannot be spent in another area. What if the Foundation decides to just organize OPW, which is already a good contribution, but doesn't sponsor itself interns? By doing that, the saving permits to spend the $10k or $5k on something else, like sponsoring an experienced member of the Foundation instead of sponsoring newcomers. I think we need think more long term than that. I think OPW and GSOC internships are excellent ways for people to get their first foot into the community. A lot of the current long term contributors are being paid well by their employers to hack on GNOME. I think that's great, and it would be hard for the Foundation to compete with that kind of salaries. I would also add that the cost of an internship is not only money, but mainly time taken away from an existing contributor that could be focusing on their own work. I think it's worth that though. But yes, how do we get the most buck for the money is a good question. Maybe the GNOME project need to make harder choices for what projects to pick for internships projects to work on. I've not mentored anyone myself for a while now. Partly because it's a lot of work, but also because I think that websites or graphics design isn't our greatest challenges as a project right now. - Andreas ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > hi; > > On 16 September 2014 14:22, Sébastien Wilmet wrote: > >> Philip said for example: > > Philip has scarcely any idea about any of this stuff, as he already > demonstrated plenty of times, couple with an overinflated sense of his > importance and contributions. > >> My issue with gnome is that it wants to hate trying to help the >>(european) commercial world >> gtk+ didn't really help the maemo-gtk+ stuff >> That as a result meant that meego-harmattan got qt based >> That's history, of course. But we did try hard to convince people >> at >>redhat like mclasen of the necessity to cooperate with nokia back >> then >> Yes we did > > that's, quite frankly, a fairly sizable pile of bull. > > Philip has absolutely no clue whatsoever about most of the decisions > that went behind the transitions from Maemo to Qt. As a person who was a full-time employee at Maemo during that time, I can testify to that. *If* there was any technical reasons (there weren't really), it was C vs. C++. The most important fact to keep in mind here is that decision to go for Qt was not made by Maemo side of Nokia. Keeping that in mind, I don't see any exaggeration in Emmanuele's statement above. -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) Befriend GNOME: http://www.gnome.org/friends/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?
On Sep 17, 2014 9:17 AM, "Bastien Nocera" wrote: > > On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 13:58 +0200, Sébastien Wilmet wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 09:51:15AM +0100, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: > > > The approach to budgeting is similar in that the Foundation and Google > > > both have a budget, but our budgets are quite different. Any spending > > > in any area means that that money cannot be spent in another area. > > > > What if the Foundation decides to just organize OPW, which is already a > > good contribution, but doesn't sponsor itself interns? By doing that, > > the saving permits to spend the $10k or $5k on something else, like > > sponsoring an experienced member of the Foundation instead of sponsoring > > newcomers. > > > > For example when a Friends of Gnome campaign (like for the accessibility > > or security) is finished, the Gnome Foundation could add $5k to it. > > What exactly do you hope to achieve by saving $5k? > > One of the problems for the Friends Of GNOME campaigns is that we have > trouble finding interested parties to work so cheaply to implement the > goals we set out. When I was on the board, I put together 2 call of bids > for those campaigns, and I constantly heard from consultancies that the > amount was so low that the only reason that they would be interested in > it was to help GNOME. I doubt that the amount is significant enough to > pay the people necessary to achieve the goals we set out. > > GSoC mentoring and OPW are much better value for money. They introduce > people to Free Software development, to a community. Some of the alumni > stay in the community, like yourself, some go into other branches of > Free Software, or activism related to technology. > > Even if we said that those $5k were incredibly important, what would you > do with them? We haven't had cases where hackfests were cancelled due to > lack of funding and adding $5k to a FoG campaign kind of misses the > point (we pay for our own campaign?) to add to an amount that's not > enough to achieve the goals we set out when consultancies are paid > market rate. > > It's all a false economy. > It should be noted that hackfests do distribute the funds to more experienced devs. GNOME needs to service both ends. Feed the top of the funnel so five years down the line GNOME still has a bottom that produces core GNOME software. If Sebastien is talking about directly pay, that isn't sustainable by current models. If someone thinks it is they should put together a plan. Every hackfest, intern and other recipients of funds does just this to justify the expense. Otherwise it is all just talk that isn't going to go anywhere. -- J5 ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?
On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 13:58 +0200, Sébastien Wilmet wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 09:51:15AM +0100, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: > > The approach to budgeting is similar in that the Foundation and Google > > both have a budget, but our budgets are quite different. Any spending > > in any area means that that money cannot be spent in another area. > > What if the Foundation decides to just organize OPW, which is already a > good contribution, but doesn't sponsor itself interns? By doing that, > the saving permits to spend the $10k or $5k on something else, like > sponsoring an experienced member of the Foundation instead of sponsoring > newcomers. > > For example when a Friends of Gnome campaign (like for the accessibility > or security) is finished, the Gnome Foundation could add $5k to it. What exactly do you hope to achieve by saving $5k? One of the problems for the Friends Of GNOME campaigns is that we have trouble finding interested parties to work so cheaply to implement the goals we set out. When I was on the board, I put together 2 call of bids for those campaigns, and I constantly heard from consultancies that the amount was so low that the only reason that they would be interested in it was to help GNOME. I doubt that the amount is significant enough to pay the people necessary to achieve the goals we set out. GSoC mentoring and OPW are much better value for money. They introduce people to Free Software development, to a community. Some of the alumni stay in the community, like yourself, some go into other branches of Free Software, or activism related to technology. Even if we said that those $5k were incredibly important, what would you do with them? We haven't had cases where hackfests were cancelled due to lack of funding and adding $5k to a FoG campaign kind of misses the point (we pay for our own campaign?) to add to an amount that's not enough to achieve the goals we set out when consultancies are paid market rate. It's all a false economy. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 09:51:15AM +0100, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: > The approach to budgeting is similar in that the Foundation and Google > both have a budget, but our budgets are quite different. Any spending > in any area means that that money cannot be spent in another area. What if the Foundation decides to just organize OPW, which is already a good contribution, but doesn't sponsor itself interns? By doing that, the saving permits to spend the $10k or $5k on something else, like sponsoring an experienced member of the Foundation instead of sponsoring newcomers. For example when a Friends of Gnome campaign (like for the accessibility or security) is finished, the Gnome Foundation could add $5k to it. -- Sébastien ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?
On 16/09/2014, Sébastien Wilmet wrote: > Thank you very much for your answer, Kat. > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 06:12:15PM +0100, Ekaterina Gerasimova wrote: >> interns attending events in 2014 were sponsored within allocated >> travel budgets out of general funds or by sponsors for that event. > > For the budget allocated for travel, would it be a lower bugdet if > interns are less sponsorized? or sponsorized to go to a nearer > conference? The travel budgets for conferences are set before any applications are received. The way that travel budgets are set for hackfests has changed considerably in the last few years and you can find further information about how the budget is currently set at https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel/Budget If an individual does not ask for sponsorship, then of course they will not be sponsored and the whole budget may not be used up. On the other hand, if an individual does ask for sponsorship, they may receive anywhere from 0-100% of their request depending on their specific situation. To answer your question: yes, if fewer people ask for sponsorship, less will be spent on sponsorship. If people only request sponsorship to attend events which are closer to them, then also yes, less will be spent on sponsorship assuming the total number of requests remains the same. Now, speaking as someone who mentors people (interns and non-interns), the documentation team holds extremely productive hackfests, which normally take place in Europe or North America because those two locations provide the best value for sponsorship to the Foundation. Sending a newcomer who is joining the team to an event which does not have a docs hackfest attached to it would not help them become part of the team and spend a productive week hacking. The Foundation is very likely to get better value for the money spent if that person received more sponsorship to attend a docs event. >> GNOME put $1 towards interns in the 2013 financial year and $5000 >> in the 2014 financial year. That is one intern per OPW round except >> summer 2014 which was completely covered by external sponsors. There >> is currently a vote happening on the board mailing list with regards >> to sponsoring an intern for winter 2014/2015, which will come to USD >> 6000.00 if it passes. It is hoped that external sponsors can be found >> to cover all GNOME interns again. > > Was it decided into closed doors? I'm not really sure what you mean here. If you are asking whether board-list and the board meetings are kept private, then yes they are, but summaries of both are published in the meeting minutes with the exception of some sensitive topics which are kept private. In recent times, the board has chosen to list the title of the private items in the minutes so that the membership is aware that discussion is happening. Groupon is one example of an item where the actual discussion is recorded privately at the moment. > It seems that many Gnomers find OPW worthwhile, I don't question that > (or many don't want to speak up because it's a touchy subject, or many > don't have a strong opinion). Google is one of the biggest companies, > and doesn't care about spending a few millions for the GSoC for having a > good image wrt open source community (yes I know, [citation needed]). > But for the Gnome Foundation, is it the same? By spending $15k, do the > Foundation sacrify on other areas? The approach to budgeting is similar in that the Foundation and Google both have a budget, but our budgets are quite different. Any spending in any area means that that money cannot be spent in another area. > -- > Sébastien > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
