Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
Liam R E Quin liam at holoweb.net writes: would you prefer to join a community where you're made fun of on a routine basis, mocked, ridiculed, made to feel like shit, because you were born with one leg shorter than the other? If you looked like a small, physically deformed (usually hunchbacked) creature resembling a dry, gnarled old man[1], I'd certainly not call you a gimp. I'd call you a gnome. Benjamin 1: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/236317/gnome ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Boston Summit 2013?
Sriram Ramkrishna sri at ramkrishna.me writes: I agree that is a point worth considering. Portland is a second tier city and sometimes takes a extra hop because there are not a lot direct flights especially from Europe. That's a nice way to say Only Amsterdam offers a direct flight. Which means everyone from Europe will have to pay the big fee for that flight (~$500 more) or transfer inside the US. Yay. Benjamin ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!
Sriram Ramkrishna sri at ramkrishna.me writes: There was nothing more damaging than Company's post which is still quoted even today. Benjamin even today said that nobody refuted his staring at the Abyss post. So his Benjamin's post true? Because people are still talking about it and referencing it. It was gift that continues to keep on giving. What Benjamin posted was totally fine by me, he has a right to air his concerns in public. It is a public project after all. The general response I got to that post was either no response at all, talking behind my back about what what a bad person I am (at least that's what others told me) or - and this was the most concerning response for me - You shouldn't say things like that. And that response came multiple times from very different GNOME contributors. So the lesson I learned back then is that rule number 1 about the GNOME project is that you don't talk about the GNOME project. Fwiw, I still don't think Emily should characterize me as break[ing] API’s at random and purposefully ensuring that [..] themes cease to work, but I think she has all the right in the world to do that as long as I get the right to use my choice words to answer to that. I'd rather have her calling me that than nobody saying anything at all. I can understand that their intentions are noble, but the last time someone took their chances we ended up with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME#cite_note-6 Fun fact: I didn't know I ended up on Wikipedia (Someone should file a bug against Wordpress' pingback feature). Isn't it discouraged to cite blogs on Wikipedia? [1] :) Benjamin 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blogs_as_sources ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
Peteris Krisjanis pecisk at gmail.com writes: I think we are in same business as Apple - we are trying to offer unified user experience. Difference between us and Apple though is that (in my opinion) most of us strongly believe that openness/freedom and consistent user experience (trough user interface and system design and behavior) can be in same boat (versus Walled garden and guided experience). I think we can all agree that's our vision. First: Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4 so you know what I'm going to reference. What you say is not a vision. That's a what, not a why. Also, are we in the same business as Apple? Apple is in the business of challenging the status quo and thinking differently. ($:04 in the video) Are we? WHY are we doing GNOME? The second thing is one that has been nagging me since I've started working on GTK. I talked about in my talk at Berlin in 2011. And so far, nobody has provided a good answer for it: We are not answering some of the most basic questions you need to answer for any product about how we are doing it. Like these: Who are we doing it for? Well, we sometimes say it's for everyone, but that's just not true. If it was for everyone, we wouldn't require OpenGL and spend our time on bringing GNOME 2 to mobile phones instead of reinventing the one thing we were good at (the Linux desktop). But even if we were for everyone, we have to have some people we like more than others. We already picked people that don't want to fiddle with their configuration over people that do want to fiddle with their configuration. We've also been picking people that need simple consumer applications over content creators. Or we wouldn't have written contacts, clocks and a new shell, but would have worked on improving GIMP, Inkscape, Glade or Pitivi instead. And it looks like Wacom users with lots of VMs that require Kerberos logins are way Who are we selling it to? This question is not about the person who is going to use it in the end. It's about who is taking what we produce and doing stuff with those things we gave out. Apple for example doesn't just sell to users, it also sells to shops and to mobile network operators. And Android is sold to OEMs. So who are we trying to convince to use GNOME? Is it distros? Is it OEMs? Is it end users? All of them? Because if it's distros, we've lost a bunch with the GNOME 3 transition (Ubuntu, Meego/Tizen) and I don't see us trying to win them back. If it's OEMs, we haven't done much better. If it's end users, then why don't we have a product for them? The only product we have that targets end users directly is jhbuild... So HOW are we actually doing this? So that leaves the what question. It's a question most people aren't sure about either. Are we doing a desktop? A tablet interface? Maybe phones? Are we for kiosks? Do we ship a platform for others to build upon? All of it? We do have a bunch of guidelines (unified experience, HiG etc) that you outline, but from my POV we are clearly missing answers to a lot of these questions. And these questions are important for me as a GTK developer to answer. in the recent theming discussion - where theme developers complain that GTK breaks their themes every release - I need to know what to do about it and what to spend my time on. Do I make their lives easier? Or do I instead work on new features desired for GNOME 3.8? Do I look more or less at GTK portability to other platforms (like Windows, OSX, or even running on top of KDE or Unity)? Should I take time looking into porting Libreoffice to GTK? Should I improve devtools like Glade instead of GTK? I can roughly answer all of these questions myself. But I have no idea WHAT we as the GNOME community think is important. Benjamin PS: Another example for the why/how/what thing: Mozilla believes in an open web. They educate about and develop software to make this open experience easy. Wanna use their browser and phone? ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: What do you think of the foundation?
Stormy Peters stormy.peters at gmail.com writes: I too have found the GNOME community to be extremely welcoming. I got met at my first GUADEC in 2001 with You're a girl! from a very excited woman manning the registration desk.But I can't ignore the fact that people are leaving our community or being quiet, because they don't like the type of interaction that happens. Especially when I can see several interactions that don't meet our own agreed upon Standards of Conduct. I have a problem here. I am not sure I have a clear idea of what type of interaction is causing these issues. In fact, the only case where I can pinpoint the issues people had related to sacred parts of the human anatomy and led to our releases not having codenames anymore. Could you (or anyone) give me some examples about what people complained? I also have no idea what people in- and outside the GNOME community expect. Do they expect what I call an American business-style environment, where every image link that shows naked legs is annotated NSFW or is it ok to talk like I do with friends when meeting them in a pub? I feel that we are trying to police without understanding the issue. At least all the people that said something about it in this thread, said that they feel fine in the community. Noone sounded like he had any real clue about what the problem was. Myself, I'd prefer if the community was less well-behaved and emotionless. Emotions include excitement, commitment and identification, and GNOME certainly needs more of that. Cheers, Benjamin ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
