Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
Is it? What are we actually talking about? The original referenced e-mail (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-November/msg00177.html) is a technical opinion on how to make open standards as useful as possible in providing cross-platform/cross-desktop integration. I was talking about the Massachusetts policy decision about OpenDocument (which was also referenced in Anne's message that started this thread). I thought that's why people are suggesting a press release and trying to influence politicians. The other message you're referring to may raise other issues also worth talking about. I am not sure what it says. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
OK. Who has a draft statement or web page? The FSF might have one. Others probably do as well. You could make a brief note of support, with a link to some other site's campaign. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
Andrew Sobala wrote: [...] Is it? What are we actually talking about? The original referenced e-mail (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-November/msg00177.html) is a technical opinion on how to make open standards as useful as possible in providing cross-platform/cross-desktop integration. While I agree that lobbying individuals and governments to use open standards (especially in their interactions with the outside world, ie. file formats and network protocols) is a laudable one, I do not feel that was the main thrust of Federico's e-mail. Agreed. I may be alone, but I feel this thread may be in need of some clarification. Lets not split hairs here, whether Federico's e-mail in the election campaign had anything to do with lobbying individuals and governments to use open standards or not is irrelevent; Anne's original email [1] proposes that we put something up on gnome.org about GNOME's position on open standards (also possibly a press release). Personally I think that its our duty, as developers of free software; to make clear to GNOME users (corporate or private) what that position is. Regards, -Tristan [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-December/msg00052.html ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
Richard M. Stallman wrote: For example, people still feel that by default GNOME should ship with stuff that makes it easy to encode to mp3 or rip CD's for their hardware devices that do not support open formats; or that GNOME should play DVD's. I think there is a misunderstanding--we are not talking about those issues, not now. The issue at hand is encouraging governments to switch to free formats. Is it? What are we actually talking about? The original referenced e-mail (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-November/msg00177.html) is a technical opinion on how to make open standards as useful as possible in providing cross-platform/cross-desktop integration. While I agree that lobbying individuals and governments to use open standards (especially in their interactions with the outside world, ie. file formats and network protocols) is a laudable one, I do not feel that was the main thrust of Federico's e-mail. I may be alone, but I feel this thread may be in need of some clarification. Thanks, Andrew ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 20:51 -0500, Richard M. Stallman wrote: > > > We might even consider a press release explaining our point of view. > > [snip] > > > > Fine with me, though I don't think anybody will notice. > > Just making a statement may not have much effect. However, asking > visitors to the site to write to politicians can have more effect. OK. Who has a draft statement or web page? -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
For example, people still feel that by default GNOME should ship with stuff that makes it easy to encode to mp3 or rip CD's for their hardware devices that do not support open formats; or that GNOME should play DVD's. I think there is a misunderstanding--we are not talking about those issues, not now. The issue at hand is encouraging governments to switch to free formats. Maybe a check with the developer base is needed first ? There is no time for that, and fortunately no need. Putting up such a statement as the Foundation and then having a lot of developers disagree with it in practice seems a bad situation to be in. Not to worry, we know that won't happen on this issue. As for inclusion of code for MP3s and DVDs, I think everyone here would be in favor of that, as long as that code is free software. But there are places where we cannot do this, because the government serves the forces of injustice. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
> > We might even consider a press release explaining our point of view. > [snip] > > Fine with me, though I don't think anybody will notice. Just making a statement may not have much effect. However, asking visitors to the site to write to politicians can have more effect. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 18:27 +0100, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote: [...] > For example, people still feel that by default GNOME should ship with > stuff that makes it easy to encode to mp3 or rip CD's for their hardware > devices that do not support open formats; or that GNOME should play > DVD's. I think many people do feel that, and are upset at the software patents and licensing situation that makes it difficult. But such people can also be in support of Free software, and of open standards -- it's another reason for people to wish that ISO followed a royalty free patent policy. (Even the royalty free patent policy we developed at W3C is far from perfect, although it's the best compromise that a large number of very creative people could come up with: our patent policy is not sufficient to ensure the safety of GPL'd code once it's reused outside the original purpose.) Let's make sure people don't blame Gnome for things outside the control of the Gnome project, and let's make sure that we don't stop doing what we feel to be right because of other people's confusion in this area. Instead, yes, go ahead and draft a statement about Free software, and also a statement about why MP3 and DVD functionality cannot easily be included in GPL'd software. Best, Liam -- Liam Quin, W3C XML Activity Lead, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin Ankh on the Web: http://www.holoweb.net/~liam/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ IRC (chat) programs: www.ircreviews.org/clients/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
> I think this is a good idea; however, I'm not sure GNOME developers > agree with this as a group. > > For example, people still feel that by default GNOME should ship with > stuff that makes it easy to encode to mp3 or rip CD's for their hardware > devices that do not support open formats; or that GNOME should play > DVD's. > > Maybe a check with the developer base is needed first ? Putting up such > a statement as the Foundation and then having a lot of developers > disagree with it in practice seems a bad situation to be in. Who's going to be against encouraging open standards? For what possible reason? That's like being against cute puppies. Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 17:14 +0100, Anne Østergaard wrote: > Hi > > During the election campagn many of the candidates expressed the > importance of having free and open standards. > > This is important for both proprietary software and FLOSS and for > society. > > Federico answered a question put to him about standards in this mail > from Philip: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-November/msg00177.html > > I think that is was a very clever answer and would like the GNOME > Foundation to draft a short statement of principle on GNOME's stand in > this question. > > The Gnome Board of Directors have if I remember right a meeting to night > where I would like the board to give us its opinion. > > If the board and the foundation members agree - and I hope we all do - > then we could draft a short statement to show on our website at the same > place where we have expressed that GNOME Foundation is against software > patents. > > We might even consider a press release explaining our point of view. > > At the moment I am following closely what happens in Massachusetts > OpenDocument adoption case. I think this is a good idea; however, I'm not sure GNOME developers agree with this as a group. For example, people still feel that by default GNOME should ship with stuff that makes it easy to encode to mp3 or rip CD's for their hardware devices that do not support open formats; or that GNOME should play DVD's. Maybe a check with the developer base is needed first ? Putting up such a statement as the Foundation and then having a lot of developers disagree with it in practice seems a bad situation to be in. Thomas Dave/Dina : future TV today ! - http://www.davedina.org/ <-*- thomas (dot) apestaart (dot) org -*-> I hope love love love just gets in the way <-*- thomas (at) apestaart (dot) org -*-> URGent, best radio on the net - 24/7 ! - http://urgent.fm/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
"Murray Cumming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [snip] > > If the board and the foundation members agree - and I hope we all do - > > then we could draft a short statement to show on our website at the same > > place where we have expressed that GNOME Foundation is against software > > patents. > > > > We might even consider a press release explaining our point of view. > [snip] > > Fine with me, though I don't think anybody will notice. Such policy statements provide useful quoting material to those who are lobbying politicians. However, I haven't seen the GNOME Foundation's statement against software patents, and I can't find it right now, so maybe future statements should be easier to find. (Or if the original email was referring to a now-gone web banner, I'd say a statement is more useful.) -- Ciarán O'Riordan, ___/ Support FSFE's campaigns against IPRED2 http://ciaran.compsoc.com/ _/ and software patents by joining the Fellowship ___/ and encouraging others to do so http://fsfe.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
[snip] > If the board and the foundation members agree - and I hope we all do - > then we could draft a short statement to show on our website at the same > place where we have expressed that GNOME Foundation is against software > patents. > > We might even consider a press release explaining our point of view. [snip] Fine with me, though I don't think anybody will notice. Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
GNOME strongly supports open standards including OpenDocument Format
Hi During the election campagn many of the candidates expressed the importance of having free and open standards. This is important for both proprietary software and FLOSS and for society. Federico answered a question put to him about standards in this mail from Philip: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2005-November/msg00177.html I think that is was a very clever answer and would like the GNOME Foundation to draft a short statement of principle on GNOME's stand in this question. The Gnome Board of Directors have if I remember right a meeting to night where I would like the board to give us its opinion. If the board and the foundation members agree - and I hope we all do - then we could draft a short statement to show on our website at the same place where we have expressed that GNOME Foundation is against software patents. We might even consider a press release explaining our point of view. At the moment I am following closely what happens in Massachusetts OpenDocument adoption case. You can find a lot more about this on GROKLAW: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20051210103842722 I feel happy that the state of Massachusetts started this most important IT related debate in our time. Many companies, governments, international organizations and individuals are expressing their support of this very important work that is the result of long time collaboration on the part of our international standradisation organisations. This will eventually lead to a soft(ware) revolution all over the world because it will help brake monopolies and facilitate free and even competition in the field of software development and ensure ownership to ones own code and sustainability among other good effects for the information society. Best regards Anne Anne Østergaard - aoe at gnome.org ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
