Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Thaddy

On 8-8-2011 21:57, Sven Barth wrote:

On 07.08.2011 19:52, Marco van de Voort wrote:
That being said, there is another bubble going on in Mobile, and we 
have to

be very careful that such things don't happen again.


May I ask you to explain what you mean here? (Just curious)

Regards,
Sven
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I already explained that for a good reader. Google versus Oracle on 
specific issues about Android.
In this case: before Oreacle took over Sun, Sun was actively encouraging 
Google to develop Android and saw it as a strengthening of the Java 
platform.
After Oracle took over their point of view (b.en) or standpoint (usa.en) 
changed 180 degrees.

But that is just a part of it on Mobile.

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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Sven Barth

On 08.08.2011 22:45, Marco van de Voort wrote:

In our previous episode, Sven Barth said:

the Win32 centric VCL :-(



It was not only the VCL. They included stuff in the assemblies that made
them basically hard to use from other languages. Things like
initialization and finalization sections just don't work that well in
the CLR.


And mandatory destructors  implemented by implementing idispose alway,
iirc.


I knew there was something else :)

Regards,
Sven

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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Sven Barth said:
> > the Win32 centric VCL :-(
> >
> 
> It was not only the VCL. They included stuff in the assemblies that made 
> them basically hard to use from other languages. Things like 
> initialization and finalization sections just don't work that well in 
> the CLR.

And mandatory destructors  implemented by implementing idispose alway,
iirc.
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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich
 wrote:
> IMO CodeGear stumbled with Delphi.NET over the same stone as with Kylix: the
> Win32 centric VCL :-(

Non-sense, if it was like that Gtk2 would be a huge failure, because
it is totally X11-centric, but nevertheless it has a very big usage.

Plus, the LCL is much more compatible with the VCL then the CLX was
and the LCL succeeded.

-- 
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Sven Barth

On 08.08.2011 23:15, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

Sven Barth schrieb:

On 08.08.2011 12:48, Michael Schnell wrote:

On 08/06/2011 12:16 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote:

So it's just a stopgap solution for them until they have time to build
their own ARM compiler,

They continue to use the product from RemObject as their .Net compiler
:). So I suppose they are not in a hurry (in case that FPC works as
expected, which nobody doubts.)


I better hope they continue to use RemObject's .NET compiler...
Delphi.NET was a death-birth and that should not be repeated.


How can you be sure that it was the compiler? A compiler for .NET is not
a big deal, adding an parser for the language is almost enough.

IMO CodeGear stumbled with Delphi.NET over the same stone as with Kylix:
the Win32 centric VCL :-(



It was not only the VCL. They included stuff in the assemblies that made 
them basically hard to use from other languages. Things like 
initialization and finalization sections just don't work that well in 
the CLR.


Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Sven Barth

On 08.08.2011 22:11, Marco van de Voort wrote:

In our previous episode, Sven Barth said:

That being said, there is another bubble going on in Mobile, and we have to
be very careful that such things don't happen again.


May I ask you to explain what you mean here? (Just curious)


That donations of large pieces of code are not checked properly. Specially
for parts (new units) that we don't know very well, and thus copyrighted
code is more likely to go unnoticed.


Thanks for explaining, but could there really be such a problem as FPC 
is more or less the first Pascal compiler on such platforms? Or does 
converting copyrighted C(whatever) code count here as well? (Sorry, if I 
sound a bit naive, but I still have problems with all that copyright and 
license stuff...)


Regards,
Sven

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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Hans-Peter Diettrich

Sven Barth schrieb:

On 08.08.2011 12:48, Michael Schnell wrote:

On 08/06/2011 12:16 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote:

So it's just a stopgap solution for them until they have time to build
their own ARM compiler,

They continue to use the product from RemObject as their .Net compiler
:). So I suppose they are not in a hurry (in case that FPC works as
expected, which nobody doubts.)


I better hope they continue to use RemObject's .NET compiler... 
Delphi.NET was a death-birth and that should not be repeated.


How can you be sure that it was the compiler? A compiler for .NET is not 
a big deal, adding an parser for the language is almost enough.


IMO CodeGear stumbled with Delphi.NET over the same stone as with Kylix: 
the Win32 centric VCL :-(


Now they try not to stumble across it for another time, and use an 
approved toolkit. Finishing the new library took precedence over an new 
compiler, so that they decided to use FPC, for the beta version.


Just my 0.02€

DoDi

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Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status

2011-08-08 Thread Florian Klämpfl
Am 08.08.2011 12:49, schrieb John Clymer:
> Kicking it around in the back of my head at work today...
> 
> I tried doing a compile to assembly language for the stellaris - and it
> choked giving the error from t_embed.pas.  The error comes from the
> portion of the program trying to generate a linker script.
> 
> Looking at t_embed.pas, it looks like every single flavor of ARM
> controller will require it's own subsection of the case() statement. 
> This can easily get long and ugly.  As the only thing that changes
> between most of the arm variants is the memory layout - why not provide
> a generic "stellaris" switch - with reads in a text file containing the
> memory map and stack top (the rest of the link file remains the same for
> all variants of ARM) ? 
> 
> This way - switching to a new variant of stellaris only requires
> tweaking a memory map file - rather than a re-build and patch of
> t_embed.pas ?  For that matter - entirely foreign Cortex M3 parts could
> be easily supported without requiring changes to the compiler.
> 
> Just pondering how to make it easier and more flexible ...

Yes, this can be done. However, somebody who knows enough about a
certain controller family must do this.

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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Sven Barth said:
> > That being said, there is another bubble going on in Mobile, and we have to
> > be very careful that such things don't happen again.
> 
> May I ask you to explain what you mean here? (Just curious)

That donations of large pieces of code are not checked properly. Specially
for parts (new units) that we don't know very well, and thus copyrighted
code is more likely to go unnoticed.


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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Sven Barth

On 08.08.2011 12:48, Michael Schnell wrote:

On 08/06/2011 12:16 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote:

So it's just a stopgap solution for them until they have time to build
their own ARM compiler,

They continue to use the product from RemObject as their .Net compiler
:). So I suppose they are not in a hurry (in case that FPC works as
expected, which nobody doubts.)


I better hope they continue to use RemObject's .NET compiler... 
Delphi.NET was a death-birth and that should not be repeated. At least 
Embarcadero has admitted that way that someone else has built a better 
compiler for that platform. It will be interesting to see whether they 
want to license Cooper, RemObject's upcoming Pascal compiler for Java, 
as well; their plans to support Android as well in the future could mean 
this.


Regards,
Sven

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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Sven Barth

On 07.08.2011 19:52, Marco van de Voort wrote:

That being said, there is another bubble going on in Mobile, and we have to
be very careful that such things don't happen again.


May I ask you to explain what you mean here? (Just curious)

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread waldo kitty

On 8/7/2011 12:50, Jonas Maebe wrote:


On 07 Aug 2011, at 17:57, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:


Makes you wonder, will they start submitting patches for FPC too?


I hope so. The main problem I see with that is that they would become somewhat 
"tainted" by the FPC source code if they do so, which may make it harder to 
work on their own compiler later on. As long as they don't start blatantly copying code 
from FPC into their own compiler (like some people did in the past with Delphi RTL code 
into the FPC RTL) I don't think anyone who has contributed to the compiler would really 
care if they learned a bunch of stuff from our code base, but of course they have lawyers 
who almost certainly will care a lot.

This can of course be solved in various ways (have someone who normally does 
not work on their compiler work on ours, hire a someone temporarily to do that 
work, external contractor, ...).


[joke] they could also shoot the lawyers and remove that particular problem... 
the world would be better for it, too ;) [/joke]


personally, i think it is a GoodThing that they are using FPC in some way 
and it would be nice if they would/could contribute code back to FPC... all in 
all, at this point in time, it appears to be +1's ;)

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[fpc-devel] make fcl-base for arm-wince failure in fpc 2.7.1

2011-08-08 Thread Vincent Snijders
Hi,

It seems that the conversion of fcl-base to fpmake still has a glitch:

c:\lazarus\source\fpcbuild\trunk\fpcsrc\compiler\ppc386.exe fpmake.pp
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/rtl/units/i386-win32
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/hash/units/i386-win32
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/paszlib/units/i386-win32
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/fcl-process/units/i386-win32
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/fpmkunit/units/i386-win32
.\fpmake.exe compile --localunitdir=../.. --globalunitdir=..
--os=wince --cpu=arm -o -Twince -o -Parm -o -XParm-wince- -o -Xr -o
-Ur -o -Xs -o -O2 -o -n -o
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/rtl/units/arm-wince -o
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/hash/units/arm-wince
-o -FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/paszlib/units/arm-wince
-o 
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/fcl-process/units/arm-wince
-o -FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/fpmkunit/units/arm-wince
-o -FDc:\lazarus\source\binutils\arm-wince -o -FE. -o
-FUunits/arm-wince -o -darm -o -dRELEASE
--compiler=c:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/compiler/ppcrossarm.exe
   Compiling src\ascii85.pp
   Compiling src\avl_tree.pp
   Compiling src\base64.pp
   Compiling src\blowfish.pp
   Compiling src\bufstream.pp
   Compiling src\cachecls.pp
   Compiling src\contnrs.pp
   Compiling src\Start building package fcl-base for target arm-wince.
The installer encountered the following error:
External command
"c:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/compiler/ppcrossarm.exe
-Twince -FUunits\arm-wince
-FuC:\lazarus\source\fpcbuild\trunk\fpcsrc\rtl\units\arm-wince
-Fisrc/win -Fisrc -Fisrc/wince -Fisrc/dummy -Twince -Parm
-XParm-wince- -Xr -Ur -Xs -O2 -n
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/rtl/units/arm-wince
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/hash/units/arm-wince
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/paszlib/units/arm-wince
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/fcl-process/units/arm-wince
-FuC:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/fpmkunit/units/arm-wince
-FDc:\lazarus\source\binutils\arm-wince -FE. -FUunits/arm-wince -darm
-dRELEASE -viq src\eventlog.pp" failed with exit code 1. Console
output:
Target OS: WinCE for ARM
Compiling src\eventlog.pp
eventlog.inc(35,37) Error: Identifier not found "OpenEventLog"
eventlog.inc(43,16) Error: Identifier not found "CloseEventLog"
eventlog.inc(66,21) Error: Identifier not found "ReportEvent"
eventlog.inc(149,31) Error: Identifier not found "EVENTLOG_INFORMATION_TYPE"
eventlog.inc(149,31) Error: Illegal expression
eventlog.inc(150,27) Error: Identifier not found "EVENTLOG_WARNING_TYPE"
eventlog.inc(150,27) Error: Illegal expression
eventlog.inc(150,47) Error: Identifier not found "EVENTLOG_ERROR_TYPE"
eventlog.inc(150,47) Error: Illegal expression
eventlog.inc(151,28) Error: Identifier not fcustapp.pp
   Compiling src\eventlog.pp
ound "EVENTLOG_AUDIT_SUCCESS"
eventlog.inc(151,28) Error: Illegal expression
eventlog.pp(343) Fatal: There were 11 errors compiling module, stopping
Fatal: Compilation aborted

make.exe[2]: *** [all] Error 1
make.exe[2]: Leaving directory
`C:/lazarus/source/fpcbuild/trunk/fpcsrc/packages/fcl-base'
make.exe[1]: *** [fcl-base_all] Error 2

Vincent
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Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status

2011-08-08 Thread Geoffrey Barton

On 8 Aug 2011, at 11:49, John Clymer wrote:

> Kicking it around in the back of my head at work today...
> 
> I tried doing a compile to assembly language for the stellaris - and it 
> choked giving the error from t_embed.pas.  The error comes from the portion 
> of the program trying to generate a linker script.
> 
> Looking at t_embed.pas, it looks like every single flavor of ARM controller 
> will require it's own subsection of the case() statement.  This can easily 
> get long and ugly.  As the only thing that changes between most of the arm 
> variants is the memory layout - why not provide a generic "stellaris" switch 
> - with reads in a text file containing the memory map and stack top (the rest 
> of the link file remains the same for all variants of ARM) ?  

yes, this could be applied to any of the M3 variants.

> 
> This way - switching to a new variant of stellaris only requires tweaking a 
> memory map file - rather than a re-build and patch of t_embed.pas ?  For that 
> matter - entirely foreign Cortex M3 parts could be easily supported without 
> requiring changes to the compiler.
> 
> Just pondering how to make it easier and more flexible ...

absolutely, I did not go any further as I needed one particular controller at 
the time to prove I could use FPC on a commercial project, so just hacked what 
Jeppe had done. Really all the reg definitions can be separate too (and not in 
stellaris.pas). Even the interrupts can be handled separately as you can flip 
the NVIC into ram in your application, it just happened to be convenient to put 
uart0 in stellaris.pas as this port is configured  for debugging by default on 
all the stellaris mcus.

> 
> From: Geoffrey Barton 
> To: FPC developers' list 
> Sent: Mon, August 8, 2011 12:17:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status
> 
> 
> On 7 Aug 2011, at 11:14, John Clymer wrote:
> 
>> Ok.  Give me a week or so (very hectic schedule right now...)  And I will 
>> see if I can't patch it up some. 
> 
> 
> To save you some time perhaps, the following was for lm3s9b92 and 
> rtl/embedded/arm/stellaris.pas; I only tested with that device:-
> 
> 1 in cpuinfo.pas,  tcontrollertype should include,  ct_lm3s9b92 rather 
> than stellaris
> 2 also  'stellaris' in controllerunitstr should be 'lm3s9b92
> 
> 3 in compiler/systems/t_embed.pas add:-
> 
> ct_lm3s9b92:
>   with linkres do
> begin
>   Add('ENTRY(_START)');
>   Add('MEMORY');
>   Add('{');
>   Add('flash : ORIGIN = 0x, LENGTH = 256K');
>   Add('ram : ORIGIN = 0x2000, LENGTH = 96K');
>   Add('}');
>   Add('_stack_top = 0x20017FFC;');
> end;
> 
> I also found I needed to comment out the controller types other than 
> stellaris in rtl/embedded/makefile.fpc.
> 
> Then remake make,and make the compiler.
> 
>> New to this - what is procedure to generate and submit patch set ?
> 
> +1
> 
> but Florian did offer to integrate any updates himself :)
> 
> Geoffrey
>> 
>> Thanks !
>> 
>> 
>> From: Florian Klämpfl 
>> To: FPC developers' list 
>> Sent: Sun, August 7, 2011 12:15:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status
>> 
>> Am 06.08.2011 13:35, schrieb John Clymer:
>> > Ok, maybe I'm missing something...
>> > 
>> > I can compile and get a binary for an STM32F103RE.  However, if I
>> > attempt for the STELLARIS target, I get an error.  I see where the error
>> > is coming from in t_embed.pas.  It looks like the t_embed.pas file is
>> > missing linking information for the Stellaris.  
>> 
>> Yes. arm embedded devices are only supported as far as somebody
>> contributed the compiler and rtl support. Problem is: we don't have any
>> chance to test it, so only users of these devices can contribute the
>> support.
>> 
>> > Can someone confirm this
>> > is the case before I go on a wild chase changing things ?
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status

2011-08-08 Thread John Clymer
Kicking it around in the back of my head at work today...

I tried doing a compile to assembly language for the stellaris - and it choked 
giving the error from t_embed.pas.  The error comes from the portion of the 
program trying to generate a linker script.

Looking at t_embed.pas, it looks like every single flavor of ARM controller 
will 
require it's own subsection of the case() statement.  This can easily get long 
and ugly.  As the only thing that changes between most of the arm variants is 
the memory layout - why not provide a generic "stellaris" switch - with reads 
in 
a text file containing the memory map and stack top (the rest of the link file 
remains the same for all variants of ARM) ?  


This way - switching to a new variant of stellaris only requires tweaking a 
memory map file - rather than a re-build and patch of t_embed.pas ?  For that 
matter - entirely foreign Cortex M3 parts could be easily supported without 
requiring changes to the compiler.

Just pondering how to make it easier and more flexible ...





From: Geoffrey Barton 
To: FPC developers' list 
Sent: Mon, August 8, 2011 12:17:03 PM
Subject: Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status



On 7 Aug 2011, at 11:14, John Clymer wrote:

Ok.  Give me a week or so (very hectic schedule right now...)  And I will see 
if 
I can't patch it up some.  



To save you some time perhaps, the following was for lm3s9b92 and 
rtl/embedded/arm/stellaris.pas; I only tested with that device:-

1in cpuinfo.pas,  tcontrollertype should include,  ct_lm3s9b92 rather than 
stellaris
2also  'stellaris' in controllerunitstr should be 'lm3s9b92

3in compiler/systems/t_embed.pas add:-

ct_lm3s9b92:
  with linkres do
begin
  Add('ENTRY(_START)');
  Add('MEMORY');
  Add('{');
  Add('flash : ORIGIN = 0x, LENGTH = 256K');
  Add('ram : ORIGIN = 0x2000, LENGTH = 96K');
  Add('}');
  Add('_stack_top = 0x20017FFC;');
end;

I also found I needed to comment out the controller types other than stellaris 
in rtl/embedded/makefile.fpc.

Then remake make,and make the compiler.

New to this - what is procedure to generate and submit patch set ?
>
+1

but Florian did offer to integrate any updates himself :)

Geoffrey


>Thanks !
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Florian Klämpfl 
>To: FPC developers' list 
>Sent: Sun, August 7, 2011 12:15:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status
>
>Am 06.08.2011 13:35, schrieb John Clymer:
>> Ok, maybe I'm missing something...
>> 
>> I can compile and get a binary for an STM32F103RE.  However, if I
>> attempt for the STELLARIS target, I get an error.  I see where the error
>> is coming from in t_embed.pas.  It looks like the t_embed.pas file is
>> missing linking information for the Stellaris.  
>
>Yes. arm embedded devices are only supported as far as somebody
>contributed the compiler and rtl support. Problem is: we don't have any
>chance to test it, so only users of these devices can contribute the
>support.
>
>> Can someone confirm this
>> is the case before I go on a wild chase changing things ?
>
>
>
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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Michael Schnell
AFAIU, the Windows 32 FPC has some disadvantages regarding the Delphi 
compiler (compiling speed, executable speed, executable size). 
(Obviously providing multiplatform does not come for free.)


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Michael Schnell

On 08/06/2011 12:16 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote:

So it's just a stopgap solution for them until they have time to build their 
own ARM compiler,
They continue to use the product from RemObject as  their .Net compiler 
:). So I suppose they are not in a hurry (in case that FPC works as 
expected, which nobody doubts.)


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Delphi XE2 uses FPC for iOS target

2011-08-08 Thread Michael Schnell

+1
-Michael
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Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status

2011-08-08 Thread Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 12:14 PM, John Clymer  wrote:
> New to this - what is procedure to
> generate and submit patch set ?

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Creating_A_Patch

-- 
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
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Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status

2011-08-08 Thread Geoffrey Barton

On 7 Aug 2011, at 11:14, John Clymer wrote:

> Ok.  Give me a week or so (very hectic schedule right now...)  And I will see 
> if I can't patch it up some. 


To save you some time perhaps, the following was for lm3s9b92 and 
rtl/embedded/arm/stellaris.pas; I only tested with that device:-

1   in cpuinfo.pas,  tcontrollertype should include,  ct_lm3s9b92 rather 
than stellaris
2   also  'stellaris' in controllerunitstr should be 'lm3s9b92

3   in compiler/systems/t_embed.pas add:-

ct_lm3s9b92:
  with linkres do
begin
  Add('ENTRY(_START)');
  Add('MEMORY');
  Add('{');
  Add('flash : ORIGIN = 0x, LENGTH = 256K');
  Add('ram : ORIGIN = 0x2000, LENGTH = 96K');
  Add('}');
  Add('_stack_top = 0x20017FFC;');
end;

I also found I needed to comment out the controller types other than stellaris 
in rtl/embedded/makefile.fpc.

Then remake make,and make the compiler.

> New to this - what is procedure to generate and submit patch set ?

+1

but Florian did offer to integrate any updates himself :)

Geoffrey
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> 
> From: Florian Klämpfl 
> To: FPC developers' list 
> Sent: Sun, August 7, 2011 12:15:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [fpc-devel] Arm Thumb2 - Stellaris status
> 
> Am 06.08.2011 13:35, schrieb John Clymer:
> > Ok, maybe I'm missing something...
> > 
> > I can compile and get a binary for an STM32F103RE.  However, if I
> > attempt for the STELLARIS target, I get an error.  I see where the error
> > is coming from in t_embed.pas.  It looks like the t_embed.pas file is
> > missing linking information for the Stellaris.  
> 
> Yes. arm embedded devices are only supported as far as somebody
> contributed the compiler and rtl support. Problem is: we don't have any
> chance to test it, so only users of these devices can contribute the
> support.
> 
> > Can someone confirm this
> > is the case before I go on a wild chase changing things ?
> 
> 
> 
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