Re: [fpc-pascal] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: WebAssembly Target

[Ryan Joseph]

> On Apr 14, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Jürgen Hestermann  
> wrote:
> 
> I doubt that you can do this only when allowing the execution of
> arbitrary code (although I don't know very much about current HTML standards).

I think you’re confusing Java for JavaScript. JavaScript doesn’t allow 
execution of arbitrary code and as far as I know it’s still the only language 
that can manipulate the DOM on the browser to perform actions on the client 
side like changing the properties of HTML elements.

Regards,
Ryan Joseph

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Freevision etc.

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 13/04/17 10:00, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:


My first problem is that there's a name clash between the Freevision and
LCL variants of some units. I appear to be able to use something like
uses Objects,   Views in
'/usr/local/lib/fpc/3.0.2/units/arm-linux/fv/views',   Dialogs in
'/usr/local/lib/fpc/3.0.2/units/arm-linux/fv/dialogs';
but is it possible to do something like setting up an alias for that
directory name which will track versions etc.? I'd prefer to not assume
that there's any predictable relative positioning of the source and unit
directories.


I've got something working after a fashion, but had to make a local copy 
of FreeVision with some changed unit names to avoid clashes with stuff 
from the LCL. I'd appreciate any insights on how to do the job properly.



My second problem is that the Pascal file generated by the dialogue
editor gives me something like
{ TBDTestBlockDeviceDialogue }
typePTBDTestBlockDeviceDialogue = ^TTBDTestBlockDeviceDialogue;
TTBDTestBlockDeviceDialogue = object(TTestBlockDeviceDialogue)
constructor Init;end;
and it's unclear where the TTestBlockDeviceDialogue type is defined.


I'm pretty sure that's a bug in the dialog editor.


If I can get this working I'm hoping to make the source available as a
demonstrator somewhere, so I'd very much appreciate suggestions which
would make this happen.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: WebAssembly Target

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Am 2017-04-14 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Van Canneyt:
>> I want to keep control about what is executed on my computer.
> So you are running an open source OS ?

Unfortunately not (yet).
I am working on getting rid of windows
but some programs not available on Linux
prevented me from doing this step for now.

Nevertheless, the point is not to just run
open source programs (and OS's).
I install a new OS very seldom
and these OS's are under public observation.
We know quite a lot about Windows and what it is doing
in the background so I am no so much concerned about it (yet).
I disabled updates so I don't get unexpected changes in the background.
And I use Win 7 and 8.1 but not 10.

Same applies to programs.
I cannot wade through all the code even if it's open source.
I have to rely on the fact that popular programs are under
public ovservation and that unexpected behaviour will be known soon.

For web pages this is totally different.
With scripting you install and run completely unknown code
hundreds of times a day. An infected or otherwise malicious
web page will not become visible at once because they can
change very often and there are many of them.
Therefor I use NoScript to prevent me from such code.
90% of these web pages using scripting are crap anyway.
Scripting is mainly used to annoy the user with add popups etc.

Serious web pages don't need scripting IMO.
They should provide information and that is possible without it.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: WebAssembly Target

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:


Am 2017-04-14 um 13:53 schrieb Michael Van Canneyt:
>> Why is it scripting needed to display a calendar?
> To display a popup menu, for example.
> Or completion when typing in an edit: when you invite someone, it's handy
> when calendar suggests the contact name.

I doubt that you can do this only when allowing the execution of
arbitrary code (although I don't know very much about current HTML 
standards).


In the end Scripting is like downloading executable files
with each and every click on a web page.
I do not want this.
I want to keep control about what is executed on my computer.


So you are running an open source OS ?

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Re: [fpc-pascal] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: WebAssembly Target

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Am 2017-04-14 um 13:53 schrieb Michael Van Canneyt:
>> Why is it scripting needed to display a calendar?
> To display a popup menu, for example.
> Or completion when typing in an edit: when you invite someone, it's handy
> when calendar suggests the contact name.

I doubt that you can do this only when allowing the execution of
arbitrary code (although I don't know very much about current HTML standards).

In the end Scripting is like downloading executable files
with each and every click on a web page.
I do not want this.
I want to keep control about what is executed on my computer.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: WebAssembly Target

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:


Am 2017-04-14 um 11:03 schrieb Michael Van Canneyt:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:
>> Am 2017-04-13 um 10:20 schrieb Michael Schnell:
>> > So at the moment HTML5 and Java script is the way to go, but 
WebAssembly should recreate Action Script versatility performance in a more 
"Standard" way.

>> I hate Java Script and use NoScript to block it.
>> I can't understand why scripting is needed for a web page.
>
> Simple: to improve the user experience. Things like google calendar would 
be impossible without it.


Why is it scripting needed to display a calendar?


To display a popup menu, for example.

Or completion when typing in an edit: when you invite someone, it's handy
when calendar suggests the contact name.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: WebAssembly Target

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Am 2017-04-14 um 11:03 schrieb Michael Van Canneyt:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:
>> Am 2017-04-13 um 10:20 schrieb Michael Schnell:
>> > So at the moment HTML5 and Java script is the way to go, but WebAssembly should 
recreate Action Script versatility performance in a more "Standard" way.
>> I hate Java Script and use NoScript to block it.
>> I can't understand why scripting is needed for a web page.
>
> Simple: to improve the user experience. Things like google calendar would be 
impossible without it.

Why is it scripting needed to display a calendar?

I am not against improving HTML but allowing arbitrary code
on a web site is of no use (for the user) IMO.
It's just a security hole.

Code can be executed on the server if needed.
On the clients only what the HTML-language provides shoud be allowed.
And executing arbitrary code should not be part of this language.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] WebAssembly Target

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:


Am 2017-04-13 um 10:20 schrieb Michael Schnell:
> So at the moment HTML5 and Java script is the way to go, but WebAssembly 
should recreate Action Script versatility performance in a more "Standard" 
way.


I hate Java Script and use NoScript to block it.
I can't understand why scripting is needed for a web page.


Simple: to improve the user experience. 
Things like google calendar would be impossible without it.


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Re: [fpc-pascal] WebAssembly Target

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Am 2017-04-13 um 10:20 schrieb Michael Schnell:
> So at the moment HTML5 and Java script is the way to go, but WebAssembly should 
recreate Action Script versatility performance in a more "Standard" way.

I hate Java Script and use NoScript to block it.
I can't understand why scripting is needed for a web page.

Once I could do even my home banking without scripting
but meanwhile scripting spreads over all the internet.
For security reasons this is a desaster and
I never found anything useful with scripting.

The most annoying thing with scripting is, that you potentially
download arbitrary code with every click.
A browser should only display information but never execute
arbitrary code from a web site.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Threading vs Parallelism ?

[Sven Barth via fpc-pascal]

Am 14.04.2017 09:23 schrieb "Michael Schnell" :
>
> On 12.04.2017 14:09, Lars wrote:
>>
>> If unix could just make processes even lighter weight or
>> faster loading, I might avoid threads and just use processes...
>
> in Unix/Linux processes are not less "light" then threads. You can create
a process by "fork". no "Loading" involved. it just creates the process. If
you want to have the new process execute any code that is not shared with
the you need to do another system call to replace the code with the new
one. Moreover even if "loading" new code - in case another process already
runs this file, no actual loading  takes place, either, as the memory
management just uses the code page already in RAM.
>
> This definitively is as light as it gets.

A process definitely is less "light" than threads even on Unix systems: a
process has its own address space (even if it shares all pages with its
parent process) and also structures keeping track of the used resources
(e.g. open file descriptors). A thread does not need all this as it always
shares the same address space and the same resources.
Why do you think the concept of threads was introduced in Unix? Early Unix
systems only had processes.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] WebAssembly Target

[Michael Schnell]

On 12.04.2017 15:49, nore...@z505.com wrote:


Why run webgl through javascript if you could just make something like 
a flash plugin object


We once did a decent application using Pascal at the server and Flash 
(Action Script) at the client site. Works very nicely. But Action Script 
is Adobe propriety and even Adobe says that Flash is depreciated. So at 
the moment HTML5 and Java script is the way to go, but WebAssembly 
should recreate Action Script versatility performance in a more 
"Standard" way.


-Michael

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Threading vs Parallelism ?

[Michael Schnell]

On 12.04.2017 14:09, Lars wrote:

If unix could just make processes even lighter weight or
faster loading, I might avoid threads and just use processes...
in Unix/Linux processes are not less "light" then threads. You can 
create a process by "fork". no "Loading" involved. it just creates the 
process. If you want to have the new process execute any code that is 
not shared with the you need to do another system call to replace the 
code with the new one. Moreover even if "loading" new code - in case 
another process already runs this file, no actual loading  takes place, 
either, as the memory management just uses the code page already in RAM.


This definitively is as light as it gets.

-Michael
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