Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-31 Thread Martok 
Am 31.12.2017 um 11:15 schrieb Sven Barth via fpc-pascal:
> Could/would you provide that tool as open source?
Sure! 
I have attached the win32 binary as a release.

> Does it only work with PE/COFF or also ELF?Since I only very crudely parse 
> the linker map file, I think it should work
regardless of executable format? Wouldn't bet on embedded targets though, they
might have a different format. Happy to accept pull requests ;)

Borland Map files are something entirely different (and inconsistent between
versions and frontends!), so no easy comparison for now.

> .xdata and .pdata are both used for SEH related data on the non-i386 Windows
> platforms (x84_64 and ARM as well as the obsolete MIPS and PowerPC targets). 
Ah, so they're both exception handling. Interesting to see that is almost as
large as the actual code, at least for the "useless" test case.


-- 
Regards,
Martok

Ceterum censeo b32079 esse sanandam.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-31 Thread Florian Klämpfl 
Am 31.12.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martok:
> 
> And now the on-topic part: this compares an "empty" project (Lazarus:
> Project->New->Program), compiled for win32 and win64
> 
> As you can see, the win64 image is about a third larger - but not so much
> because of the code segments (they end shortly after the cyan "bar" for 
> typinfo,
> before the second occurrence of classes), but more so because of the data
> sections following.

Keep in mind that i386 generates exception handling in code so the "data" of 
.xdata is basically
included in .text on i386.

> A lot of that is unwind info (.xdata), I'm afraid I don't
> know what .pdata usually is.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-31 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd 

On 31/12/17 00:15, Martok wrote:


Oh, and I finally know why even simple LCL applications are so large: 
graphicsdrags in fcl-image, which includes full support for JPEG, TIFF, PNG and 
requirespasjpeg, paszlib and others. The widgetset indirection is surprisingly 
small.


Interesting.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-31 Thread Sven Barth via fpc-pascal 
Am 31.12.2017 00:19 schrieb "Martok" :

Am 22.12.2017 um 09:30 schrieb Dennis:
> I am upgrading my program from win 32 to win 64 using the new Lazarus 1.8.
> I discovered my program exe size increased from 6M to 9M.
Just for fun, I wrote a small program to parse Linker Map files and show the
image occupation by source object file (~unit).


Could/would you provide that tool as open source? Does it only work with
PE/COFF or also ELF?


First lesson: FPC's internal linker is *a lot* better than the GNU linker
when
it comes to discarding unused parts. Good job there!



Good to know :D

Second lesson: the RTL's system and classes are large, compared to Delphi
(at
least older versions). They can do more as well, so I'll call that a draw.

And now the on-topic part: this compares an "empty" project (Lazarus:
Project->New->Program), compiled for win32 and win64

As you can see, the win64 image is about a third larger - but not so much
because of the code segments (they end shortly after the cyan "bar" for
typinfo,
before the second occurrence of classes), but more so because of the data
sections following. A lot of that is unwind info (.xdata), I'm afraid I
don't
know what .pdata usually is.


.xdata and .pdata are both used for SEH related data on the non-i386
Windows platforms (x84_64 and ARM as well as the obsolete MIPS and PowerPC
targets).

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-30 Thread Martok 
Am 22.12.2017 um 09:30 schrieb Dennis:
> I am upgrading my program from win 32 to win 64 using the new Lazarus 1.8.
> I discovered my program exe size increased from 6M to 9M.
Just for fun, I wrote a small program to parse Linker Map files and show the
image occupation by source object file (~unit).

First lesson: FPC's internal linker is *a lot* better than the GNU linker when
it comes to discarding unused parts. Good job there!

Second lesson: the RTL's system and classes are large, compared to Delphi (at
least older versions). They can do more as well, so I'll call that a draw.

And now the on-topic part: this compares an "empty" project (Lazarus:
Project->New->Program), compiled for win32 and win64

As you can see, the win64 image is about a third larger - but not so much
because of the code segments (they end shortly after the cyan "bar" for typinfo,
before the second occurrence of classes), but more so because of the data
sections following. A lot of that is unwind info (.xdata), I'm afraid I don't
know what .pdata usually is.

Oh, and I finally know why even simple LCL applications are so large: graphics
drags in fcl-image, which includes full support for JPEG, TIFF, PNG and requires
pasjpeg, paszlib and others. The widgetset indirection is surprisingly small.


Just though I'd share that.


-- 
Regards,
Martok

Ceterum censeo b32079 esse sanandam.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-23 Thread Marco van de Voort 
In our previous episode, leledumbo via fpc-pascal said:
> > Why?
> 
> At least pointer size takes double space, multiply it with every instances
> 1.5x bigger is not impossible.

For memory size, however the question was about binary size. And in
instructions usually the full 64-bits of immediate pointers are not stored
(and even less so on Windows where addresses are afaik rip relative)

Still the average instruction length goes up. That said, many binary size
details are not known. 
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-23 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd 

On 22/12/17 12:45, leledumbo via fpc-pascal wrote:

Why?

At least pointer size takes double space, multiply it with every instances1.5x 
bigger is not impossible.


Particularly if the binary contains debugging information.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-22 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 

On 2017-12-22 08:30, Dennis wrote:

I am upgrading my program from win 32 to win 64 using the new Lazarus 1.8.
I discovered my program exe size increased from 6M to 9M.


As already answered. The same applies to Linux and FreeBSD 64-bit 
programs. It's normal.


Regards,
  Graeme

--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-22 Thread leledumbo via fpc-pascal 
> Why?

At least pointer size takes double space, multiply it with every instances
1.5x bigger is not impossible.



--
Sent from: http://free-pascal-general.1045716.n5.nabble.com/
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[fpc-pascal] Why win64 program are considerably bigger in exe size than win 32?

2017-12-22 Thread Dennis 

I am upgrading my program from win 32 to win 64 using the new Lazarus 1.8.
I discovered my program exe size increased from 6M to 9M.

Why?

Dennis
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