Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said: > > The order of things is roughly > > snip... > > Wow, that sounds very labour intensive. > > The Joel Test: 12 Steps to better code > https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ He confuses release and build. My above bit is a release, the build is the single makepack script. And like any platitude, hopelessly oversimplified. > Take note of Step 2. ;-) > > I take it your FreeBSD steps are not automated at all. Well, there is makepack that does the entire release build and a separate script that does the whole checkout. Only a few manual steps inbetween Note that the branch preparing is something that only I do (and in case of 3.0.0, Joost did), the platform maintainers only check out the branch or use the zips. > Any reason why? Low yield, so relatively often additional manual fixes and a restart are needed. So the number of times that it runs uninterrupted is limited. If issues bug you too much, you spend time fixing a few, but usually it is just simpler to first add them to the release recipe and see if they become a staple (A simple recipe seems to be a concept that Joel apparently doesn't (ac)know(ledge) at all) Also 2 hours sounds much, but most is waiting while I just work on the rest of the machine. I assume in the branching step, one could create a program that scans a list of files for tags, and does many of the manual version updates automatically. A new file then only has to be tagged and added to the list. But this is stuff that takes 5 minutes per rc/release, and often that is done in a train or some moment at work that I'm waiting on things. Or at home watching TV :_0 Similarly the ident patching. That used to be automated and then the LLVM migration confused it. Finding a way to do that for LLVM freebsd versions would improve that somewhat (see rtl/freebsd/i386/identpatch.sh for the gcc version) > To much effort because releases are only once per year, or have you > tried but couldn't get it fully working? Just curious - not criticising. Low yield, nobody testing the release process inbetween. Twice an year, the process is also for RCs. Also I don't have any permanent machinery with VMs running and logging in or executing remotely, and instrumenting the VMs from a central spot would be yet again more complicated automation. > In a previous company I worked for, I had four A4 pages of steps to > follow to make builds and release ISO's. It took me almost the whole > day. To make matters worse, we had releases every 3-4 months. Eventually > I got irritated enough and managed to automate the whole process using > scripts and clever custom-written tools. The effort was well worth it in > the end (though challenging), and now anybody could create builds and > release ISO's with a push of a button. It is always a balance. I also see people investing huge amounts of time in such things they never will earn back. Worse they often introduce tools (e.g. scripting languages) that are personal preference but a nightmare for any person taking over (being new employment or sickness/holiday) The thing to avoid is areas that people consider "no touch". Either because the lists are unwieldy, but also because the automation is overly complex. And that is another thing in a project as FPC, the common skillsets outside FPC are not a given. E.g. I have no "common" web skills (no js,php,json or whatever), despite having had two fulltime webdeveloper jobs (since both were Delphi systems), and no unix scripting beyond the most basic shell script( and I like to keep it that way) > > Currently For FreeBSD I have 4 virtual box VMs (10+11 x86 + x86_64), for > > each: > > A bit off topic... Do you use FreeBSD 11 for anything other than the > build VM's? I switched to Fedora a few years back because of issues with a laptop and later to Ubuntu because of the LTS support. I only use linux for FPC purposes (and even then rarely), and we have a simple postgres/samba/svn/openvpn server at work. I haven't really used *nix as a day-to-day OS since I left the uni(2003, I worked there for a while after the education) While I still have my old FreeBSD shell accounts that were the reason for the original freebsd ports, I barely do anything on them other than mail+news. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
On 2017-10-11 10:59, Marco van de Voort wrote: The order of things is roughly > snip... Wow, that sounds very labour intensive. The Joel Test: 12 Steps to better code https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/ Take note of Step 2. ;-) I take it your FreeBSD steps are not automated at all. Any reason why? To much effort because releases are only once per year, or have you tried but couldn't get it fully working? Just curious - not criticising. In a previous company I worked for, I had four A4 pages of steps to follow to make builds and release ISO's. It took me almost the whole day. To make matters worse, we had releases every 3-4 months. Eventually I got irritated enough and managed to automate the whole process using scripts and clever custom-written tools. The effort was well worth it in the end (though challenging), and now anybody could create builds and release ISO's with a push of a button. Currently For FreeBSD I have 4 virtual box VMs (10+11 x86 + x86_64), for each: A bit off topic... Do you use FreeBSD 11 for anything other than the build VM's? If so, is v11 worth the upgrade. I've got a super stable workstation running FreeBSD 10.3 and contemplating if I should upgrade to FreeBSD 11. I don't want to rock the boat for no real benefit. Unfortunately I also can't do the usual (super easy) OS upgrade command, because I need to reformat my boot/root SSD drive so I can fix the block size issue (512B vs 4096B issue). Regards, Graeme -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said: > > Well, lack of manpower is not that odd:) > > Isn't building the installations automated tasks? The order of things is roughly to prepare a prepare a release branch: - there is a script to branch, and - a few scripts that help with version updates (+ about 10 manual fixes). - wait for feedback - update readme's etc manually and in cooperation with others (usually Tomas and for major releases Jonas usually) - spend several weeks of emergency fixes, since nobody is interested in merging to fixes if not directly before a release ( :-) ) - call it final and generate final source archives (for targets without SVN) Currently For FreeBSD I have 4 virtual box VMs (10+11 x86 + x86_64), for each: - modify a simple checkout script (editing s the branch and working dir) - run it (checks out branch, exports it, copies in (new) pdf docs using scp from a FPC server, copies static libgdb for 32-bit targets) - manually modify all ELF ids in startup scripts. Before LLVM times this went automated using elfdump, but haven't gotten that to work yet. - manually fix outdated defines in gdbint (note to self, fix this) - call a script to build. (install/makepack) takes about 2 mins on i7-3770 freebsd virtual box on win64 - test. - upload Before the VM solutions (FreeBSD used to be horribly slow in them, FreeBSD10 were the first VMs) I had a stack of old cheap Pentium-Ds on a KVM. Nowadays this is fairly swift. (1-2 hours total) because VMs are fast, and internet sizes have been improved. Most of the work always has been libgdb. I'm told that trunk now uses commandline gdb. That would be a relief. Afaik I haven't generated libgdbs for FreeBSD11. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
Am 10.10.2017 um 21:17 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys: > On 2017-10-10 19:54, Florian Klämpfl wrote: >> Well, lack of manpower is not that odd:) > > Isn't building the installations automated tasks? No. As building is not the main work, but creating, maintaining and testing the installer scripts is. For win32 hosts we have: - win32 - wince - win64 - android - jvm - msdos > So reallocate the man power for creating the win64 > cross-compiler, and let them rather spend the time on creating a native > 64-bit Windows compiler and > installer. You are aware that fpc is an open source community project so the possibility to "reallocate" man power is basically zero? > > > I wonder what is the ratio of users now for 32-bit Windows vs 64-bit Windows? No idea, I do not care. I still need win32, so I take care of those. As win64 installers would double my work without any benefit for me, I do not create them. But as said, fpc is a community project, if somebody cares, he is welcome to make scripts for win64 inno installers and take care of the releases. > Hell, even mobile > phones have moved to 64-bit only targets. > > > On a side note: > If you don't have something for automating tasks, take a look at the open > source Jenkins project - I do, sometimes, http://build.alb42.de:8080/ > it's awesome. It was designed for Java, but can be used for other projects > and languages too. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
On 2017-10-10 19:54, Florian Klämpfl wrote: Well, lack of manpower is not that odd:) Isn't building the installations automated tasks? So reallocate the man power for creating the win64 cross-compiler, and let them rather spend the time on creating a native 64-bit Windows compiler and installer. I wonder what is the ratio of users now for 32-bit Windows vs 64-bit Windows? Hell, even mobile phones have moved to 64-bit only targets. On a side note: If you don't have something for automating tasks, take a look at the open source Jenkins project - it's awesome. It was designed for Java, but can be used for other projects and languages too. Regards, Graeme ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
Am 10.10.2017 um 09:06 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys: > On 2017-10-09 09:56, adrian.soentger...@web.de wrote: >> i installed “fpc-3.0.2.i386-win32.cross.x86_64-win64” on my laptop with >> windows 7, but there seem >> to be no fpc.exe file, so i can´t compile. > > For some odd reason the FPC team still > don't produce a native 64-bit Windows compiler installation. Well, lack of manpower is not that odd :) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
On 2017-10-10 10:10, Tomas Hajny wrote: If you read the original post up to the end, Ah, my bad. Regards, Graeme ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
On Tue, October 10, 2017 11:08, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > On 2017-10-10 10:00, Tomas Hajny wrote: >> Apparently, Graeme forgot to include you in Cc:; including you in my >> follow-up now... > > Why must I CC him as well? I simply press "Reply" and all my replies go > to the fpc-pascal mailing list. Just like I've done with this email. If you read the original post up to the end, you'll find out that the original poster mentioned that he was not subscribed to the list and thus would not receive e-mails sent just to the list. Tomas ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
On 2017-10-10 10:00, Tomas Hajny wrote: Apparently, Graeme forgot to include you in Cc:; including you in my follow-up now... Why must I CC him as well? I simply press "Reply" and all my replies go to the fpc-pascal mailing list. Just like I've done with this email. Regards, Graeme ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
On Tue, October 10, 2017 09:06, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > On 2017-10-09 09:56, adrian.soentger...@web.de wrote: Hello, Apparently, Graeme forgot to include you in Cc:; including you in my follow-up now... >> i installed “fpc-3.0.2.i386-win32.cross.x86_64-win64” on my laptop with >> windows 7, but there seem to be no fpc.exe file, so i can´t compile. > > For some odd reason the FPC team still don't produce a native 64-bit > Windows compiler installation. They only make a cross-compiler install > for 64-bit Windows. So you have to compile a native 64-bit compiler > yourself, or install the 32-bit compiler installation, and then the > 64-bit cross-compiler install (the part you did). > > I normally just build myself a native 64-bit Windows compiler. It's > quick and easy to do. Those "odd reasons" have fairly simple rationale in fact, but I'll skip that part and focus the primary goal - the easy solution is installing fpc-3.0.2.i386-win32.exe from the same location which you used for getting the cross-comiler mentioned above. Or wait a few days and install the new 3.0.4 version right away. ;-) Tomas ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] no fpc.exe file after installation
On 2017-10-09 09:56, adrian.soentger...@web.de wrote: i installed “fpc-3.0.2.i386-win32.cross.x86_64-win64” on my laptop with windows 7, but there seem to be no fpc.exe file, so i can´t compile. For some odd reason the FPC team still don't produce a native 64-bit Windows compiler installation. They only make a cross-compiler install for 64-bit Windows. So you have to compile a native 64-bit compiler yourself, or install the 32-bit compiler installation, and then the 64-bit cross-compiler install (the part you did). I normally just build myself a native 64-bit Windows compiler. It's quick and easy to do. Regards, Graeme -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
