Re: Heading rows overridden in table

[Rick Quatro]

Susan,

Follow these steps:

1) Insert a new table into the FrameMaker document. Apply the correct format 
to each cell of the first header row, the first body row, and first footer 
row (if you have one). Resize the columns to how you would normally want 
them.


2) Choose Table  Table Designer. Click the Update All button.

3) Repeat these steps for all of your table formats.

Now when you insert a table, it should have the correct formats.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


Whenever I insert a new table into my Frame document, the heading row
for the table is overridden.



Table heading has been assigned a Table heading designation in the
Paragraph catalog of Th whereas the table shows up with Table Heading.
Table Heading (TH) doesn't appear in the paragraph catalog so I can't
delete it. Does anyone know how to fix this?



Thanks

Susan

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RE: Difference between us and international english Framemaker

[Mike Feimster]

So the question is, which English do we standardize on?

I would ask some combination of marketing, product management, and
support to decide. Eventually it comes down to maximizing revenue and
reducing support costs.

Mike

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word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared. i'm stumped.

[Cybele Knowles]

My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling with
this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the word spacing
in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes (orphans
and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a file I
last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word spacing do
not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User X opens
a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last saved by User
X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We do not
see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or more
paragraphs. 

 

We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer 
Advanced  Word Spacing  Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
custom or default. 

 

Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated, and wasting
a lot of time checking changing document layouts. 

 

Thanks,

Cybele Knowles 

 

 

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OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Natalie Bircher]

This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? 

 

 

 

Natalie Bircher

Documentation Specialist

Dairyland Healthcare Solutions

Phone: 320-634-3841

Fax: 320-634-1349

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended
recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to
the sender immediately and delete this communication.

 

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Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Art Campbell]

In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
and grammar skills.

If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
it with fresh eyes.

But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.

Art



On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?





--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
  and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
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Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Natalie,

It is bad practice for a writer or typesetter to proofread their own work. I 
worked at one shop where you would get fired for doing so. You always handed 
the document off to a professional staff proofreader.


Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?


Natalie Bircher

Documentation Specialist

Dairyland Healthcare Solutions

Phone: 320-634-3841

Fax: 320-634-1349

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[d . mossfritch]

Good Day Art and Natalie,

If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems 
encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link 
from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data 
column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents.

A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a 
contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had 
missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the 
application's actual purpose and operation.

Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that 
proofing.

Best,

 Denise L. Moss-Fritch

-- Original message -- 
From: Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's 
 a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling 
 and grammar skills. 
 
 If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be 
 the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at 
 it with fresh eyes. 
 
 But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / 
 grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. 
 
 Art 
 
 
 
 On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: 
  This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as 
  writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the 
  documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? 
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RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[John Sgammato]

I am a lone writer, so I am ultimately responsible for the docs. I have no 
editor, proofreader, or any suport whatever. I try to get someone from QA to go 
over everything, but that seldom happens. Even when it does, I go over it 
myself. 
 
The problem is that a non-writer can get quite exhausted and careless or 
resentful looking at every character, while a trained writer can skim a lot and 
focus on the places most likely to have problems.  When you are responsible for 
14 books and 6 online helps and a bunch of small end-user documents and other 
auxiliary docs, it really is quicker for the writer to do it, if s/he can 
develop the discipline. 
 
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Natalie Bircher
Sent: Fri 12/15/2006 2:29 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?



This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?







Natalie Bircher

Documentation Specialist

Dairyland Healthcare Solutions

Phone: 320-634-3841

Fax: 320-634-1349

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended
recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to
the sender immediately and delete this communication.



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Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Art Campbell]

Denise,

I don't totally disagree with your contention, but proofreading is one
thing... and content / structural editing, fact-checking, and quality
assurance, the topics that you touch upon are something else. I'm
intentionally defining proofreading in a narrow, traditional way.

The problems that you related are much more basic and mechanical...
they should all be resolved before proofreading takes place, IMHO.
Making sure the quality is built in is a continuous process that needs
attention from the beginning of the project; you can't do it at the
last minute.

Cheers,
Art

On 12/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Good Day Art and Natalie,

If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of
documents.

A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert
had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of
the application's actual purpose and operation.

Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that
proofing.

Best,

 Denise L. Moss-Fritch

-- Original message --
From: Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
 a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
 and grammar skills.

 If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
 the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
 it with fresh eyes.

 But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
 grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.

 Art



 On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote:
  This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
  writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofin g of the
  documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?




--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
  and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
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Re: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared. i'm stumped.

[Brad Anderson]

Cybele,

This is most likely due to different fonts being used on the two  
separate machines.  It is most likely due to you each printing to a  
different printer using a different driver.  Try closing out of  
FrameMaker on both machines, set Adobe PDF/Distiller as your default  
printer.  Open Frame along with the document on both machines and  
verify that the spacing is no longer changing.


It is also possible that a setting in your maker.ini file is  
different and one of you is using screen metrics and the other  
printer metrics.


Let me know how the first test goes.

Thanks,

Brad



On Dec 15, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Cybele Knowles wrote:

My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling  
with
this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the  
word spacing
in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes  
(orphans
and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a  
file I
last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word  
spacing do
not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User  
X opens
a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last  
saved by User
X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We  
do not
see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or  
more

paragraphs.



We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer 
Advanced  Word Spacing  Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
custom or default.



Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated,  
and wasting

a lot of time checking changing document layouts.



Thanks,

Cybele Knowles


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RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15)

[Torralba, Jing]

To all who gave their ideas on Unlocking Pgf Locked, thanks. Richard Combs 
unlocked the secret! 

Jing Torralba
  


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:01 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15

Send Framers mailing list submissions to
framers@lists.frameusers.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: 
Contents of Framers digest...


Today's Topics:

   1. checking location of graphics (Karen Mardahl)
   2. Re: checking location of graphics (Rick Quatro)
   3. Re: Searching in text insets (Shmuel Wolfson)
   4. Difference between us and international english Framemaker
  (Andersen, Verner Engell VEA)
   5. Re: DTD graphic tool? (Wolfgang K?hn)
   6. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Phil Heron)
   7. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Gillian Flato)
   8. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Steve Rickaby)
   9. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Mark Southee)
  10. RE: Cross reference keyboard shortcut (Conole, David (SNL US))
  11. RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Combs, Richard)
  12. RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Steve Rickaby)
  13. RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Combs, Richard)
  14. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  15. Heading rows overridden in table (Susan Nishi)
  16. RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
  (Torralba, Jing)
  17. Re: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
  (Peter Gold)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:02:10 +0100
From: Karen Mardahl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: checking location of graphics
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi

How can I be sure that a linked graphic is where it is supposed to be?
I just had a situation where the reviewer of my doc had trouble because the 
graphic wasn't where it was supposed to be for him.

Under Edit  Links, the particular graphic is shown in the window as

...\filename.vsd with Type Visio and Update Automatic

For source, it states

\\server\...\Graphics\filename.vsd

The path is a bit long, so I get three dots instead of the full path.
Policy is to have all graphics in a folder called Graphics, so everything looks 
great to me. I will never see a problem because I only use the one server. The 
fastest way to determine whether the location is truly correct, is to click 
Change Source and open the Look in drop-down menu. Only then can I see 
something is wrong. With 69 graphics, this procedure is a pain. Other docs have 
twice as many. The dialog box cannot be widened.

How can I easily check that locations are correct as a part of my 
preparing-for-review process? I just had a case where the graphic was recycled. 
A copy of the graphic was in the correct, new folder, but my pointer was to the 
original in another location. This could be disastrous if I made any updates to 
the graphic. I'd be updating the wrong one and not know it. During review, the 
person doing a new build of the document in FM ran into big trouble. The other 
folder I was using (unknowingly) is in Denmark. He is in California. Framemaker 
hung for ages. At least we got an error message, and I could track down the 
miscreant, but this happens at a time when time is at a premium (of course). I 
know about http://home.comcast.net/~bruce.foster/Archive.htm, but I want to 
know the status before taking that step. I have FrameScript if someone thinks 
that is the route to go. A List of References doesn't work, because these are 
.vsd files imported as objects.

Thanks.

regards, Karen Mardahl


--


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:16:14 -0500
From: Rick Quatro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: checking location of graphics
To: Karen Mardahl [EMAIL PROTECTED],
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=response

Hi Karen,

Unfortunately, FrameScript won't help because it sees imported OLE objects as 
if they were imported by copy. In other words, FrameScript (or the FDK) cannot 
determine the path to an OLE object.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


 Hi

 How can I be sure that a linked graphic is where it is supposed to be?
 I just had a situation 

Difference between us and international english Framemaker

[hedley.fin...@myob.com]

Gillian:

> They write their manuals the English way* (i.e. colour, theatre etc.) 
> and we write the American way** (color, theater). In 2007, I will be 
> working on a project with them so the docset will be split up between 
> their local tech writer and me. 
> So the question is, which English do we standardize on? 

Both.  Use conditions.

Regards,
Hedley

* A.k.a. the right way.
** A.k.a. the wrong way.

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd 
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia

Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

? MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2006

Heading rows overridden in table

[Rick Quatro]

Susan,

Follow these steps:

1) Insert a new table into the FrameMaker document. Apply the correct format 
to each cell of the first header row, the first body row, and first footer 
row (if you have one). Resize the columns to how you would normally want 
them.

2) Choose Table > Table Designer. Click the Update All button.

3) Repeat these steps for all of your table formats.

Now when you insert a table, it should have the correct formats.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


Whenever I insert a new table into my Frame document, the heading row
for the table is overridden.



Table heading has been assigned a Table heading designation in the
Paragraph catalog of Th whereas the table shows up with Table Heading.
Table Heading (TH) doesn't appear in the paragraph catalog so I can't
delete it. Does anyone know how to fix this?



Thanks

Susan

Difference between us and international english Framemaker

[Mike Feimster]

>So the question is, which English do we standardize on?

I would ask some combination of marketing, product management, and
support to decide. Eventually it comes down to maximizing revenue and
reducing support costs.

Mike

word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared. i'm stumped.

[Cybele Knowles]

My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling with
this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the word spacing
in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes (orphans
and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a file I
last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word spacing do
not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User X opens
a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last saved by User
X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We do not
see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or more
paragraphs. 



We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
custom or default. 



Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated, and wasting
a lot of time checking changing document layouts. 



Thanks,

Cybele Knowles 

OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Natalie Bircher]

This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? 







Natalie Bircher

Documentation Specialist

Dairyland Healthcare Solutions

Phone: 320-634-3841

Fax: 320-634-1349

Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com



This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended
recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to
the sender immediately and delete this communication.

OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Art Campbell]

In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
and grammar skills.

If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
it with fresh eyes.

But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.

Art



On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher  wrote:
> This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
> writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
> documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>
>
>

-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Natalie,

It is bad practice for a writer or typesetter to proofread their own work. I 
worked at one shop where you would get fired for doing so. You always handed 
the document off to a professional staff proofreader.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?


Natalie Bircher

Documentation Specialist

Dairyland Healthcare Solutions

Phone: 320-634-3841

Fax: 320-634-1349

Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com

word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared. i'mstumped.

[Rick Quatro]

Do you or your coworker get any "Unavailable language" or "Unavailable font" 
messages when you open the document?

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

> My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling with
> this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the word 
> spacing
> in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes 
> (orphans
> and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a file I
> last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word spacing do
> not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User X 
> opens
> a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last saved by 
> User
> X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We do not
> see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or more
> paragraphs.
>
>
>
> We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
> Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
> understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
> custom or default.
>
>
>
> Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated, and 
> wasting
> a lot of time checking changing document layouts.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cybele Knowles

OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[d.mossfri...@comcast.net]

Good Day Art and Natalie,

If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the problems 
encountered at our site deal more with content (complete procedures, no link 
from the help file to an application's Help buttons, lack of option and data 
column descriptions, and more) and the structure of documents.

A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a 
contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert had 
missed was the description of the software application was backwards of the 
application's actual purpose and operation.

Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that 
proofing.

Best,

 Denise L. Moss-Fritch

-- Original message -- 
From: "Art Campbell"  

> In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's 
> a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling 
> and grammar skills. 
> 
> If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be 
> the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at 
> it with fresh eyes. 
> 
> But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / 
> grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. 
> 
> Art 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: 
> > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as 
> > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the 
> > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? 

OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[John Sgammato]

I am a lone writer, so I am ultimately responsible for the docs. I have no 
editor, proofreader, or any suport whatever. I try to get someone from QA to go 
over everything, but that seldom happens. Even when it does, I go over it 
myself. 

The problem is that a non-writer can get quite exhausted and careless or 
resentful looking at every character, while a trained writer can skim a lot and 
focus on the places most likely to have problems.  When you are responsible for 
14 books and 6 online helps and a bunch of small end-user documents and other 
auxiliary docs, it really is quicker for the writer to do it, if s/he can 
develop the discipline. 





From: framers-bounces+jsgammato=imprivata@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of 
Natalie Bircher
Sent: Fri 12/15/2006 2:29 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?



This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the
documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?







Natalie Bircher

Documentation Specialist

Dairyland Healthcare Solutions

Phone: 320-634-3841

Fax: 320-634-1349

Email: natalie.bircher at dhsnet.com



This information is confidential and is for the use of the intended
recipient only. Any improper use of this information is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please reply to
the sender immediately and delete this communication.



___


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OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Art Campbell]

Denise,

I don't totally disagree with your contention, but proofreading is one
thing... and content / structural editing, fact-checking, and quality
assurance, the topics that you touch upon are something else. I'm
intentionally defining "proofreading" in a narrow, traditional way.

The problems that you related are much more basic and mechanical...
they should all be resolved before proofreading takes place, IMHO.
Making sure the quality is built in is a continuous process that needs
attention from the beginning of the project; you can't do it at the
last minute.

Cheers,
Art

On 12/15/06, d.mossfritch at comcast.net  wrote:
>
> Good Day Art and Natalie,
>
> If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
> problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
> procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
> lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure of
> documents.
>
> A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
> contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the expert
> had missed was the description of the software application was backwards of
> the application's actual purpose and operation.
>
> Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of that
> proofing.
>
> Best,
>
>  Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "Art Campbell" 
>
> > In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's
> > a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling
> > and grammar skills.
> >
> > If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be
> > the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at
> > it with fresh eyes.
> >
> > But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller /
> > grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job.
> >
> > Art
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote:
> > > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as
> > > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofin g of the
> > > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer?
>


-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Ridder, Fred]

What you have described is much deeper than what I
would call proofreading. I would put some it under the 
heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get 
sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and 
most of it under editing (which really has several of its
own subcategories).

No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes 
of errors and issues. And if the number of different people 
available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited,
you'll still get better results if those people do multiple
passes through the document with a limited scope for 
each pass. 

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
Intel
Parsippany, NJ


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of d.mossfritch at comcast.net
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM
To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

Good Day Art and Natalie,

If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure
of documents.

A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the
expert had missed was the description of the software application was
backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation.

Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of
that proofing.

Best,

 Denise L. Moss-Fritch

-- Original message -- 
From: "Art Campbell"  

> In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's

> a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling

> and grammar skills. 
> 
> If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be 
> the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at 
> it with fresh eyes. 
> 
> But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / 
> grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. 
> 
> Art 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: 
> > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as 
> > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the 
> > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? 
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word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared.i'mstumped.

[Ridder, Fred]

Assuming that you are not getting any "Unavailable font" messages
as Rick has suggested, there are a couple of other things to consider.

What do each of you have set as your default printer?  On Windows 
platforms the font metrics (the precise dimensions of every glyph and 
space that is produced in your text) come from the printer driver, and
there are subtle (or not so subtle) differences in the font metrics 
whenever different printer drivers are being used. One way around this
is to use the SetPrint plug-in from Sundorne Communications, which
allows you to set a FrameMaker default printer completely 
independently of the Windows default printer. This way, both of you 
can use the same printer driver within FrameMaker (e.g. the Adobe
PDF printer driver if you normally produce PDF deliverables) even if
your systems have different physical printers available to them.

And once you're using the same printer driver, you should check to 
see whether you are both using the same setting for the 
DisplayUsingPrinterMetrics setting in your maker.ini files. I would
recommend that you set this option to On rather than the default Off.
(Remember to edit maker.ini only when FrameMaker is not running.)

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
Staff Information Services Analyst
Intel
Parsippany, NJ



-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:09 PM
To: Cybele Knowles; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: word spacing formatting changing--only when files are
shared.i'mstumped.

Do you or your coworker get any "Unavailable language" or "Unavailable
font" 
messages when you open the document?

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

> My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling
with
> this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the word 
> spacing
> in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes 
> (orphans
> and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a
file I
> last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word spacing
do
> not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User X 
> opens
> a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last saved
by 
> User
> X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We do
not
> see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or
more
> paragraphs.
>
>
>
> We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
> Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
> understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
> custom or default.
>
>
>
> Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated, and 
> wasting
> a lot of time checking changing document layouts.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cybele Knowles

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word spacing formatting changing--only when files are shared. i'm stumped.

[Brad Anderson]

Cybele,

This is most likely due to different fonts being used on the two  
separate machines.  It is most likely due to you each printing to a  
different printer using a different driver.  Try closing out of  
FrameMaker on both machines, set Adobe PDF/Distiller as your default  
printer.  Open Frame along with the document on both machines and  
verify that the spacing is no longer changing.

It is also possible that a setting in your maker.ini file is  
different and one of you is using screen metrics and the other  
printer metrics.

Let me know how the first test goes.

Thanks,

Brad



On Dec 15, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Cybele Knowles wrote:

> My coworker and I use unstructured Frame 7.2. We've been struggling  
> with
> this problem: When I open a file last saved by my coworker, the  
> word spacing
> in one or more paragraphs has changed, resulting in layout changes  
> (orphans
> and widows). The same thing happens to my coworker-when she opens a  
> file I
> last saved, the word spaces has changed. These changes in word  
> spacing do
> not happen if I open a file I last saved. In other words, when User  
> X opens
> a file last saved by same User X, no problem. When a file last  
> saved by User
> X is opened by User Y, word spacing changes occur almost always. We  
> do not
> see any other formatting being changed-just word spacing in one or  
> more
> paragraphs.
>
>
>
> We do often adjust word spacing by hand using the Paragraph Designer >
> Advanced > Word Spacing > Minimum/Maximum/Optimum fields. But I don't
> understand why any word space settings should change, whether they are
> custom or default.
>
>
>
> Any insight would be much appreciated-we're stumped, frustrated,  
> and wasting
> a lot of time checking changing document layouts.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cybele Knowles

OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

[Natalie Bircher]

Fred, I agree with your philosophy.

Of course we all try to do our best to write it right the first time,
but things will escape us, and there will always be "better choices"
that could be made (such as a more common example).

The writer should definitely do a spell check and re-read what they have
written to look for best word usage/punctuation/capitalization issues.
Also check for spacing and graphics issues.

We will probably agree that SMEs should be available to check for
content and usage. In our company, the trainer determines the order of
the topics, so they would check that. I would also maintain that other
English-major-types look at the doc for structure, consistency of style
and format and double-check for punctuation, spelling and
capitalization.

It seems that the only time anyone here disagrees with this, is when an
error slips through. Then out comes the tar and feathers for the
writer...never for the other FIVE people who looked at it.

?



-Original Message-
From: Ridder, Fred [mailto:fred.rid...@intel.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM
To: d.mossfritch at comcast.net; Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

What you have described is much deeper than what I
would call proofreading. I would put some it under the 
heading of SME content review (which shouldn't get 
sidetracked in issues of grammar or punctuation), and 
most of it under editing (which really has several of its
own subcategories).

No one set of eyes is ever going to pick up all classes 
of errors and issues. And if the number of different people 
available to review/edit/proofread a document is limited,
you'll still get better results if those people do multiple
passes through the document with a limited scope for 
each pass. 

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
Intel
Parsippany, NJ


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of d.mossfritch at comcast.net
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:19 PM
To: Art Campbell; Natalie Bircher
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT - Who should be responsible for proofing?

Good Day Art and Natalie,

If you are looking at only spelling and grammar, perhaps. However, the
problems encountered at our site deal more with content (complete
procedures, no link from the help file to an application's Help buttons,
lack of option and data column descriptions, and more) and the structure
of documents.

A couple of years ago our expert (of spelling and grammer) reviewed a
contractor's publication and offered a couple of comments. What the
expert had missed was the description of the software application was
backwards of the application's actual purpose and operation.

Afraid I must say that proofing a document depends upon the purpose of
that proofing.

Best,

 Denise L. Moss-Fritch

-- Original message -- 
From: "Art Campbell"  

> In practical terms, it should be the person who gets zinged if there's

> a mistake and/or the person in the organization with the best spelling

> and grammar skills. 
> 
> If you're asking a process question, I'd say no, it should never be 
> the writer because he/she has looked at the copy too much to look at 
> it with fresh eyes. 
> 
> But back in practical terms, if the writer is the best speller / 
> grammarian, he/she is likely to get stuck with the job. 
> 
> Art 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/15/06, Natalie Bircher wrote: 
> > This is off topic, but something that we all must come across as 
> > writers. Who should be responsible for the final proofing of the 
> > documents you write? Should it ever be the writer? 
___


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Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15)

[Torralba, Jing]

To all who gave their ideas on Unlocking Pgf Locked, thanks. Richard Combs 
unlocked the secret! 

Jing Torralba



-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+jtorralba=saratogasystems.com at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-bounces+jtorralba=saratogasystems.com at lists.frameusers.com] 
On Behalf Of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:01 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15

Send Framers mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of Framers digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. checking location of graphics (Karen Mardahl)
   2. Re: checking location of graphics (Rick Quatro)
   3. Re: Searching in text insets (Shmuel Wolfson)
   4. Difference between us and international english Framemaker
  (Andersen, Verner Engell VEA)
   5. Re: DTD graphic tool? (Wolfgang K?hn)
   6. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Phil Heron)
   7. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Gillian Flato)
   8. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Steve Rickaby)
   9. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (Mark Southee)
  10. RE: Cross reference keyboard shortcut (Conole, David (SNL US))
  11. RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked" (Combs, Richard)
  12. RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked" (Steve Rickaby)
  13. RE: Unlocking "Pgf Locked" (Combs, Richard)
  14. RE: Difference between us and international english
  Framemaker (hedley.finger at myob.com)
  15. Heading rows overridden in table (Susan Nishi)
  16. RE: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
  (Torralba, Jing)
  17. Re: Unlocking Pgf Locked (Framers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14)
  (Peter Gold)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:02:10 +0100
From: "Karen Mardahl" 
Subject: checking location of graphics
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Message-ID:
<60e0e50d0612140202i755deb36h3b3bd556cf7c92f5 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi

How can I be sure that a linked graphic is where it is supposed to be?
I just had a situation where the reviewer of my doc had trouble because the 
graphic wasn't where it was supposed to be for him.

Under Edit > Links, the particular graphic is shown in the window as

...\.vsd with Type Visio and Update Automatic

For source, it states

\\server\...\Graphics\.vsd

The path is a bit long, so I get three dots instead of the full path.
Policy is to have all graphics in a folder called Graphics, so everything looks 
great to me. I will never see a problem because I only use the one server. The 
fastest way to determine whether the location is truly correct, is to click 
Change Source and open the Look in drop-down menu. Only then can I see 
something is wrong. With 69 graphics, this procedure is a pain. Other docs have 
twice as many. The dialog box cannot be widened.

How can I easily check that locations are correct as a part of my 
preparing-for-review process? I just had a case where the graphic was recycled. 
A copy of the graphic was in the correct, new folder, but my pointer was to the 
original in another location. This could be disastrous if I made any updates to 
the graphic. I'd be updating the wrong one and not know it. During review, the 
person doing a new build of the document in FM ran into big trouble. The other 
folder I was using (unknowingly) is in Denmark. He is in California. Framemaker 
hung for ages. At least we got an error message, and I could track down the 
miscreant, but this happens at a time when time is at a premium (of course). I 
know about http://home.comcast.net/~bruce.foster/Archive.htm, but I want to 
know the status before taking that step. I have FrameScript if someone thinks 
that is the route to go. A List of References doesn't work, because these are 
.vsd files imported as objects.

Thanks.

regards, Karen Mardahl


--


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:16:14 -0500
From: "Rick Quatro" 
Subject: Re: checking location of graphics
To: "Karen Mardahl" ,

Message-ID: <000b01c71f79$a67926d0$4217414a at CARMENOFFICE>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Hi Karen,

Unfortunately, FrameScript won't help because it "sees" imported OLE objects as 
if they were imported by copy. In other words,