date:20070201

At 06:39 -0500 1/2/07, Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov wrote:

>Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an article 
>from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They underlined 
>a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, 
>which is starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans may 
>want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Writer appears to be more of a potential replacement for Word than for 
applications like FrameMaker.

There's a detailed comparison here:

And of course, Writer does not support structure.

As for 'starting to show its age and lack of recent development', followers of 
this group already know that this is not true.

-- 
Steve

Replacing Framemaker

I wouldn't call this "lack of recent development":

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/framemaker_ap/

Definitely something worth considering if you plan on going structured.



-- 
Yves Barbion
Documentation Architect
Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor




On 2/1/07, Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov <
Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov> wrote:
>
> Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an
> article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They
> underlined a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is
> Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent
> development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
>
> Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my officemates that
> Framemaker is the best software for what we do, which are 700+ page
> manuals, with multiple updates and constant repagination. I know nothing
> about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to
> replace, I'm getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some
> knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.
>
> Thank very much in advance!
>
> Becky Frasure
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as yves.barbion at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Replacing Framemaker

Very good reference indeed. IMHO, the main drawback of OOo vs M$Word
is that it tries too much to imitate the latter.

I use OOo a lot, but i find it much harder to work with than
FrameMaker. It seems to default to arbitrary formatting rather than
paragraph and character formatting tags, which it has. Like M$W, OOo
does too much guessing on what you are going to to regarding numbering
etc.

Bodvar


On 2/1/07, Steve Rickaby  wrote:
> At 06:39 -0500 1/2/07, Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov wrote:
>
> >Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an article 
> >from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They 
> >underlined a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is 
> >Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent 
> >development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
>
> Writer appears to be more of a potential replacement for Word than for 
> applications like FrameMaker.
>
> There's a detailed comparison here:
>
> 
>
> And of course, Writer does not support structure.
>
> As for 'starting to show its age and lack of recent development', followers 
> of this group already know that this is not true.
>
> --
> Steve
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as bodvar at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bodvar%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Replacing Framemaker

And this might help as well:

http://www.adobe.com/products/special/crossproduct/tech_communication/faq.html#item-1-2




-- 
Yves Barbion
Documentation Architect
Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor



On 2/1/07, Yves Barbion  wrote:
>
> I wouldn't call this "lack of recent development":
>
> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/framemaker_ap/
>
> Definitely something worth considering if you plan on going structured.
>
>
>
> --
> Yves Barbion
> Documentation Architect
> Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor
> 
>
>
>
> On 2/1/07, Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov  aphis.usda.gov>
> wrote:
> >
> > Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an
> > article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software."
> > They
> > underlined a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is
> > Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent
> > development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
> >
> > Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my officemates that
> > Framemaker is the best software for what we do, which are 700+ page
> > manuals, with multiple updates and constant repagination. I know nothing
> >
> > about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to
> > replace, I'm getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some
> > knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.
> >
> > Thank very much in advance!
> >
> > Becky Frasure
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to Framers as yves.barbion at gmail.com.
> >
> > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> > or visit
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
>
>
>
>

Replacing Framemaker

Rebecca

>Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an article 
>from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They underlined 
>a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, 
>which is starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans may 
>want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Just an afterthought... Too often folks who criticize FrameMaker like this have 
no real, or deep, knowledge of the application or what it can do. The writer of 
that article should be made to justify their words.

I sometimes think I'd dearly like to see a head-to-head challenge between a 
competent FrameMaker user and a competent Word user (or 'FrameMaker 
'alternative of your choice' user) to perform a series of standard operations 
we take for granted in FrameMaker. Such a test could involve creating a 
template with a dozen styles, expanding that into a book, top and tailing the 
book, indexing a few paragraphs, making all the table styles consistent, and so 
on... against the clock.

The results would be interesting, to say the least. And the demonstration of 
FrameMaker's ability to do ordinary things faster, and out-of-the-ordinary 
things *at all*, would maybe sell a load more site licenses to middle 
management.

By the way, someone on the 'FrameMaker for OS X' group might have messed with 
Writer, if you want to post there for real-world experiences.

-- 
Steve

QA wants unique edition number in changed footers

The easiest way IMHO is to use the markers "Header/Footer $1" and/or
"Header/Footer $2" and reference these in the footer with, say,
"RunningH/F 3" and/or "RunningH/F 4" resp., which read these markers.
These two markers and system variables are there to meet the need of
showing a revision number (letter or number) and a revision date, both
extensively used in aviation documentation.

You put the marker(s) somewhere on the first page of each chapter and
enter whatever letter or number you want to use for the revision
status in the text box.

If you need to show different revision numbers in any other page in
the same chapter (file), just repeat the action for that page, and
then every page that has a different revision status from the page
before.

HTH,

Bodvar


On 1/31/07, Andersen, Verner Engell VEA  
wrote:
>
> Hi
> I am using unstructured Framemaker 7.2
>
> All my FM book files contain all master pages, all variables, all reference 
> pages etc. This means that if you accidentially copy formats from one file to 
> anoter nothing will go wrong.
>
> My edition number in the footer is simply a global variable. Now the QA 
> Department wants each chapter to have an editon number according to when 
> changes were made. This means that some chapters have edition k, others 
> edition l and so forth.
>
> Have you any idea of how I can have the various edition numbers in footer of 
> each chapter page and still have the possibility of importing all formats 
> from all files without messing things up?
>
> I want to avoid specific master pages for each chapter.
>
> Regards,
> Verner Andersen
> Technical Writer
>
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> ?kandevej 21 ? 2700 Br?nsh?j ? Denmark
> Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
> Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
> E-mail: verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
> Web: www.radiometer.com 
> 
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
> and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee.
> Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on
> the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
> constitute a violation of law.  If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to
> this e-mail, and delete the message from your system.  If you
> have any questions about this e-mail please notify the sender
> immediately.
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as bodvar at gmail.com.
>
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>
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>
>

Database Publishing book

2007-02-01 Thread Pat Bensky

Hello Framers,

I am thinking of writing a book about database publishing. It would cover
publishing with InDesign and Quark (possibly FrameMaker and Word as well)
using the following methods:

InDesign tags
Quark tags
Xtags, Xdata
XML
RTF (perhaps)
FrameMaker tags (maybe)

But before I commit to devoting all the many days it would take to complete
the project, I thought I would see if there would be much interest in such a
thing. Please let me know your thoughts and what content you would be
particularly interested in having covered.

Thanks!

Pat
--
CatBase: The Database Publishing Solution
CatBase Software Ltd.
T: +44 (0) 1462 454522
W: http://www.catbase.com
skype: pat.bensky
--

Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Dov Isaacs

On behalf of Adobe and without getting into details (sorry),
let me assure you that the next version of FrameMaker is 
under active development.

- Dov


> -Original Message-
> From: Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 3:39 AM
> To:   framers at frameusers.com
> Subject: Replacing Framemaker
> 
> Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out 
> me), an article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called 
> "Old Software." They underlined a paragraph which says, "also 
> absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, which is 
> starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans 
> may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
> 
> Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my 
> officemates that Framemaker is the best software for what we 
> do, which are 700+ page manuals, with multiple updates and 
> constant repagination. I know nothing about OpenOffice.org 
> Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to replace, I'm 
> getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some 
> knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.
> 
> Thank very much in advance!
> 
> Becky Frasure

Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Joe Malin

I usually ignore what the STC says.

What part of usda is aphis? My mom used to work for arserrc.

JOe

Yves Barbion wrote:
> I wouldn't call this "lack of recent development":
>
> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/framemaker_ap/
>
> Definitely something worth considering if you plan on going structured.
>
>
>

-- 


*Joe Malin*

jmalin at jmalin.com

Replacing Framemaker

One detail, please?
Here, or still in exile in India?

Art

On 2/1/07, Dov Isaacs  wrote:
> On behalf of Adobe and without getting into details (sorry),
> let me assure you that the next version of FrameMaker is
> under active development.
>
> - Dov
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov
> > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 3:39 AM
> > To:   framers at frameusers.com
> > Subject: Replacing Framemaker
> >
> > Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out
> > me), an article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called
> > "Old Software." They underlined a paragraph which says, "also
> > absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, which is
> > starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans
> > may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
> >
> > Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my
> > officemates that Framemaker is the best software for what we
> > do, which are 700+ page manuals, with multiple updates and
> > constant repagination. I know nothing about OpenOffice.org
> > Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to replace, I'm
> > getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some
> > knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.
> >
> > Thank very much in advance!
> >
> > Becky Frasure
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>


-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Combs, Richard

Art Campbell wrote: 

> One detail, please?
> Here, or still in exile in India?

Why does that matter? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Captions: dynamic or relative indentation for autonumbered paragraph format

2007-02-01 Thread Rene S.

-Original Message-
From: Christine Beck [mailto:christine_b...@us.xyratex.com] 

>Isn't it easier to create a paragraph tag for your Figure Titles? You
>can use Ctrl M to position them as you wish and save the new tag.


All of this assumes that there is a paragraph tag created for the captions,
separate from the one holding the anchored frame insertion. I'm sorry that I
wasn't clear in my original post. 

What I'm trying to reinvent (or rediscover) was the way to have flexible
indentation of the caption paragraph based on surrounding paragraph tag's
indentation. The idea is to keep the paragraph formats centralized and
minimal, rather than having to set up 5 different formats just to
accommodate figure caption indentation, or having to do manual overrides
(CTRL+M) to change the indentation for most captions to various different
levels. 

I don't know if the old templates hinged upon a script or .cfg modification,
but it was detailed in a single procedure, like a job aid for the writers,
and it worked flawlessly. We only had 1 pgf tag for the fig captions, but
following "the procedure" made it behave in a dynamic manner for
indentations. It was a lot faster than doing overrides and a lot cleaner and
easier to manage from the template level and during WIP than multiple
paragraph tags (and trying to get people to learn/remember which one to use
and do all the edit markups associated therewith).

It's possible, been done before - I just can't remember HOW and was hoping
someone else out there has also done this or can point me to a script or
.cfg modification that could be used toward it...or maybe someone lurking on
this list worked at that former employer of mine and remembers more!  :-)  

Rene

"Y'all think I'm crazy or smoking something illegal...but I'm not."

How long to learn framescript?

2007-02-01 Thread Kevin Hunter

At 11:45 -0800 22/1/07, Diane Gaskill wrote:

>I'm considering asking my manager to buy FrameScript for me and I have 
>to justify it of course.  Does anyone have any data on how long it 
>takes to become reasonably proficient using it. I have 4 years of sw 
>dev experience and 15 years of FM experience.

Hi Diane,

I get the digest version of the mailing list and have been away so didn't get a 
chance to read this earlier.

I just wanted to respond to your query from a different point of view: We had a 
series of user guides (totaling some 4000 pages) to which I wanted to apply 
some across-the-board formatting changes, resulting from inadequate document 
design and just a general need to update the look of our guides. Because of 
those same initial document design problems, I was having to perform some types 
of change manually, page by page... So after completing the changes across a 
few hundred pages, we looked at automating those, and eventually bought 
framescript, and complemented that with a couple of scripts we commissioned 
from Rick Quatro (Carmen Publishing). The scripts worked exactly as we needed, 
and completed correctly, in seconds, what would have required a few dozen hours 
of mind-numbingly repetitive work (where obviously I would have missed some 
changes, and been running into them periodically for months or years).

So in our case, I never learned a thing about framescript other than how to run 
a script, but it paid for itself in a few minutes. And as others have said, 
because of the hassle often involved in learning scripts, as long as you have 
an understanding boss (who will trust your judgement on which tasks are worth 
hiring out and not delay that process more than a day or two), in the long run 
the most efficient and least stressful option might be to order your scripts 
from a consultant; in our case, it allowed me to focus on the tasks I'm 
primarily hired to do, and to me, this solution to our problem we had was akin 
to waving a magic wand at it and making it go away, it was immensely satisfying.

Kevin Hunter

Replacing Framemaker

Rebecca.L.Frasure at aphis.usda.gov wrote:
  I know nothing
> about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? 

It's very much like MS Word, in the way it is cumbersome and unintuitive 
and at least a little bit unstable.

I have used it to edit a document created by someone else. The first 
thing that went wrong was... the Numbering! Mucking about with some 
numbered paragraphs crashed the program and lost my work. I have also 
been trying to apply a figure numbering style that includes chapnum, and 
find that OOo keeps dropping the hyphen from the style definition. The 
dialog boxes are like Word, in that you have to drill down a million 
levels to set options. The on-line Help is reference oriented, not task 
oriented, so you're left guessing at what features exist by what names 
that will do what you want.

In short, it's been every bit as irritating and frustrating as Word, and 
I wouldn't use it for anything more than memos and very short reports 
(which is what I use Word for).

regards,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"Developers explain How the Product Works.
Technical writers explain How to Work the Product."


Get Firefox!
http://tinyurl.com/8q9c5

Replacing Framemaker

Steve Rickaby wrote:
> I sometimes think I'd dearly like to see a head-to-head challenge
> between a competent FrameMaker user and a competent Word user (or
> 'FrameMaker 'alternative of your choice' user) to perform a series of
> standard operations we take for granted in FrameMaker. Such a test
> could involve creating a template with a dozen styles, expanding that
> into a book, top and tailing the book, indexing a few paragraphs,
> making all the table styles consistent, and so on... against the
> clock.

For an outline of just such a test (and a lovely laugh as you imagine 
the progress of each individual), see
http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/demo.html

cheers,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"Developers explain How the Product Works.
Technical writers explain How to Work the Product."


Get Firefox!
http://tinyurl.com/8q9c5

Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Bill Briggs

At 12:43 PM + 2/1/07, Steve Rickaby wrote:
>I sometimes think I'd dearly like to see a head-to-head challenge between a 
>competent FrameMaker user and a competent Word user (or 'FrameMaker 
>'alternative of your choice' user) to perform a series of standard operations 
>we take for granted in FrameMaker. Such a test could involve creating a 
>template with a dozen styles, expanding that into a book, top and tailing the 
>book, indexing a few paragraphs, making all the table styles consistent, and 
>so on... against the clock.

 I did this exact thing at Macworld a few years ago. It was the desktop pub 
shootout, or some such title. There was a Quark expert, an ID expert, and me 
driving FrameMaker. We took turns doing things that showed the application's 
"stuff" and challenged the others to match it. MS Word wasn't even invited to 
the shootout as it wasn't considered a contender.

 All things considered, FrameMaker held its ground against the others. It 
couldn't match the typography of ID, and was not as graceful at doing magazine 
style layout with lots of graphics, but it kicked some butt in the area where 
we all know it shines, like number streams, cross references, conditional text, 
etc.

 There was no clear winner. It came down to choosing the right tool for the 
job. Of course ID and Quark were fighting for supremacy in the same DTP space. 
FrameMaker has a feature set that focuses on other things. But it held its own.

 My most vivid memory of the shootout was the audible gasp from Jay (who was 
driving Quark) when, with a couple of keystrokes, I imported an image into a 
table cell. Apparently that wasn't easy to do in Quark at that time.

 But then we all know the virtues of FrameMaker.

- web

Database Publishing book

--- Pat Bensky  wrote:
> Hello Framers,
> I am thinking of writing a book about database
> publishing. It would cover
> publishing with InDesign and Quark (possibly
> FrameMaker and Word as well)
> using the following methods:
> 
> InDesign tags
> Quark tags
> Xtags, Xdata
> XML
> RTF (perhaps)
> FrameMaker tags (maybe)
===
I've been developing database publishing applications
for clients for about 14 years. In some cases, I
deliver turnkey applications to my customer. In other
cases, I produce the finished output (typically
annually).

Your list of methods barely scratches the surface, and
does seem to address only the most simple database
publishing applications, which, in my experience, is
rarely enough. Nor do you seem to be addressing he
wide array of products/solutions which are available,
as well as the extremely wide variety of applications
in which database publishing can be employed
effectively. 

Your definition of what you mean by database
publishing will determine the scope of your book. The
broadest definition would encompass all special
solutions whose purpose is to process raw output from
a database so as to deliver it in a form that is
useable to both human and non-human users.

In the case of delivery to human users, such solutions
typically include customizeable middleware which can
receive/processe/manipulate the raw database output,
and makes the processed data compatible with the
selected formatting/output engine (e.g., FrameMaker,
Quark, Word (ugh) or InDesign).

If, for example, FrameMaker is chosen as the
formatting/output engine, several customizable
middleware products are available, including
PatternStream, Miramo and UniMerge. Such middlewar
products require the development of a special 
application for each production operation, which may,
among other things, involve evaluatiing each database
record so as to select/delete/rearrange the sequence
of the data fields in each record before it is
delivered to FrameMaker. UniMerge (the product I use)
can also specify the FrameMaker format tag to be
applied to individual fields, add markers to specify
fields whose content is used to produce running
header/footers, specify fields which are to be
included in a table of contents, insert static text
above, below or within a sequence of record fields,
specify that some or all fields in a record field be
placed within a FrameMaker table, truncate the data in
a field, add mathematical operations on rows or
columns in a tabular array, and many other functions
which radically alter the raw database input before
delivering output to FrameMaker.

Very large database publishing solutions are very
complex, and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars
to develop,operate and maintain successfully.
===

Dan Emory & Associates
FrameMaker/FrameMaker+SGML Document Design & Database Publishing

Replacing Framemaker

The publication by the STC of this article
demonstrates the declining relevance of that
organization.

Replacing Framemaker

At the risk of injecting more accurate facts into this thread and
disabusing Dan's low opinion of STC (why yes, I am a senior member)

 * Becky Frasure's original assertion that the article was published
in the January issue of STC Intercom is inaccurate. What was published
there was an article on "or Open-Source Tools for Technical
Communicators, Part II: Interoperability"
(http://www.stc.org/intercom/PDFs/2007/200701_8-11.pdf) that contains
a link to ...

* http://www.techwr-l.com/techwhirl/, the commercial TechWriter
mailing list site owned and operated by the same people that publish
this FM mailing list, which published an article in its online
magazine titled "Replacing FrameMaker with OpenOffice.org Writer"
(http://www.techwr-l.com/techwhirl/magazine/technical/replaceframewithwriter.html)

 * The author of that article, Bruce Byfield, describes himself: "I am
a computer journalist, primarily for the Open Source Technology Group
(OSTG)" so we might assume at the outset that he may be a bit biased
in his reporting because he's comparing an "open" program with a
commercial competitor He concludes: "However, so long as they take
the time to learn Writer, they can be in little doubt that they are
using software that competes with FrameMaker on its own terms, and
wins as often it loses. Even ignoring the cost and philosophical
differences, OpenOffice.org is clearly an acceptable alternative to
FrameMaker."

He does, however, present some interesting conclusions. Some of which
I'd disagree with, but there ya go.

Byfield's own site is at http://members.axion.net/~bbyfield/

Cheers,
Art

On 2/1/07, Daniel Emory  wrote:
> The publication by the STC of this article
> demonstrates the declining relevance of that
> organization.
> 
>
> ___

-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Paste Special

2007-02-01 Thread Alison Carrico

Is there a way to force Frame to paste as text when copy/pasting WITHIN
Frame?  Below is the altered line in my .ini file, but I still have to
"Paste Special" when copying between Frame docs or within the same doc.

ClipboardFormatsPriorities=TEXT, RTF, OLE 2, FILE, EMF, META, DIB, BMP,
MIF


-Original Message-
On Behalf Of Seraphim Larsen
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:42 PM
To: Framers at frameusers.com
Cc: John.Pilla at us.ibm.com; Fred Ridder
Subject: Re: Paste Special

I also prefer Fred's method.

But if you still need a keyboard shortcut, it's Ctrl-Shift-V


Seraphim Larsen, Senior Technical Writer
Intel Corporation * DEG/ECG/Ops/TechComm * Chandler, AZ
My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.



On 1/31/07, Fred Ridder  wrote:
> My preferred approach is to change the default behavior when pasting
> from the clipboard to be plain text. That way you only have to use
Paste
> Special when you want to do something else (e.g. pasting a Word table
> as RTF).  You do this by modifying the ClipboardFormatPriorites item
in
> maker.ini. I change it from
> ClipboardFormatsPriorities=FILE, OLE 2, EMF, META, DIB, BMP, MIF, RTF,
TEXT
> to
> ClipboardFormatsPriorities=FILE, TEXT, OLE 2, EMF, META, DIB, BMP,
MIF, RTF
>
> My opionons only; I don't speak for Intel
> Fred Ridder
> Intel
> Parsippany, NJ
>
>
> >From: John Pilla 
> >To: Framers at FrameUsers.com
> >Subject: Paste Special
> >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:00:55 -0500
> >
> >I couldn't find it.
> >Is there a shortcut key combination (FM 7.0)  for Paste Special?
> >In MSWord, I created a shortcut key to Paste Special > Unformatted
Text.
> >Now that I am working in FM (again - finally, after 6 long years) - I
find
> >I need to copy a lot of content from previous versions of material in
> >MSWord, into FM documents.
> >Since I already have template and styles, and its not always from one
> >document.  Using Paste Special is the most efficient.
> >
> >~ John ~
> >Sr. Learning Specialist, Educational Services
> >MRO Software (An IBM Company)
> >Phn: +1.781.280.2003, Fax: +1.781.280.2201
> >John.Pilla at us.ibm.com
> >
> >Maximo 5 Certified, Maximo 6 Certified EAM
> >Foundation Certificate in IT Service Management
> >
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Global change of table row height settings

2007-02-01 Thread TEPLITZ Ronald

I have a doc with a lot of tables. I want to change the row height min
and max values of all tables rather than just one table at a time. Does
anyone have a technique or a utility to do this? 

Ron

Paste Special

2007-02-01 Thread Andrew Warren

Alison Carrico wrote:

> Is there a way to force Frame to paste as text when copy/pasting
WITHIN
> Frame?

Alison:

Try HovText: http://hovtext.com/index.php/?page=features&lang=en

-Andrew

=== Andrew Warren  - awarren at synaptics.com
=== Synaptics, Inc - Santa Clara, CA

Paste Special

2007-02-01 Thread Charles Beck

I second this endorsement, although I offer one caveat: Some Microsoft
products do not play nice with this tool. For example, if you have
HovText on, and you try to copy the contents of a cell in Excel, it does
not copy and the cell does not even stay selected. Quite threw me the
first few times I encountered it. 

Fortunately, HovText has an option to set up your own keyboard shortcut
to turn it on and off. So, when working in Excel, I just toggle HovText
off, and all is well with the world. 

To bring it back home, though, it works marvelously well in copying text
from other products, such as Word, into FrameMaker. 

Chuck


-Original Message-
Subject: RE: Paste Special

The best option I've come across to achieve this is to use a third party
tool called Hovtext (www.hovtext.com).

Its simple, easy to use and free.  It works for all Windows apps, not
just Frame specific.  Highly recommended.

-Pete

Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread rebecca.l.fras...@aphis.usda.gov

Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an 
article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They 
underlined a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is 
Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent 
development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my officemates that 
Framemaker is the best software for what we do, which are 700+ page 
manuals, with multiple updates and constant repagination. I know nothing 
about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to 
replace, I'm getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some 
knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.

Thank very much in advance!

Becky Frasure

character tags in cross reference text

2007-02-01 Thread rebecca officer

Hi Caroline

Thanks for that, but unfortunately - as Niels thought - it doesn't work
in this situation. We have text like this:

parameter1 option1 parameter2 parameter3 option3

where option1 and option3 need to be in italics. And the number of
parameters and options varies.

I have a nasty feeling I've seen other people post similar requests in
the dim dark past and get no solutions, but thought I'd see if anyone's
invented something clever.

Cheers, Rebecca


>>> "Caroline Tabach"  31/01/07 22:27 >>>
I think you would need to make a special cross reference style that you
use just to create the cross references to the commands.
Then  define for that cross reference style that the characters should
appear in italics (i.e. use for the cross reference the character tag
that is used for the commands)

Caroline Tabach
Technical/Marcom Writer



Fax: +972 3 6474681
Email:   caroline at radcom.com 
www.radcom.com 
www.protocols.com 



-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+caroline=radcom@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+caroline=radcom.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of rebecca officer
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:56 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: character tags in cross reference text

Hi everyone

I just wondered if anyone has a trick that lets you make a
cross-reference to something that includes character-tagged text, and
preserve the character tag in the cross-reference?

We document commands, and some of them have italics in part of the
command syntax. In the associated step-by-step instructions, the most
reliable way to include the command syntax is to use cross-references.
But the italics get lost. :-(

Thanks!
Rebecca

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character tags in cross reference text

2007-02-01 Thread rebecca officer

Thanks Richard!

I did the quick test (Courier -> Courier New) and it didn't preserve
the italics but did preserve the different font in the xref. So the bits
that I wanted to have Courier New italics were Courier New. That's a lot
closer than I was before!

So by the look of it, I need to find/make a version of Courier that has
the italics as its "regular" form. That should be do-able. If anyone
knows how off the top of their head, I'd appreciate the info. Otherwise,
I'll go play.

Cheers, Rebecca

>>> "Combs, Richard"  1/02/07 10:21 >>>
rebecca officer wrote:

> I just wondered if anyone has a trick that lets you make a 
> cross-reference to something that includes character-tagged 
> text, and preserve the character tag in the cross-reference?
> 
> We document commands, and some of them have italics in part 
> of the command syntax. In the associated step-by-step 
> instructions, the most reliable way to include the command 
> syntax is to use cross-references.
> But the italics get lost. :-(

I vaguely recall someone describing a (somewhat difficult) solution
for
this once, but don't have time to search for the post right now. IIRC,
it was based on the fact that xrefs retain char formats that use a
different font family. So, you need to create a copy of the font used
with a new name -- I think you need Fontographer or equivalent because
you have to change the internal name of the font. 

For instance, if you're using Courier for your commands, and applying
the Variable char tag to italicize the variables, you create a new
font,
CourierCopy, and redefine the Variable char tag to be CourierCopy
Italic. FM will retain this in your xrefs. 

As a quick test, try it with two similar-looking fonts, such as the
PostScript font Courier and its TrueType cousin, Courier New -- if
that
works and looks OK, maybe you're done! :-) 

HTH!
Richard

--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

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character tags in cross reference text - solved!

2007-02-01 Thread rebecca officer

Got it!!

For anyone else who wants to do the same, the solution was:

1. Close FM.

2. Back up maker.ini, then in the [WindowsToFrameFontAliases] section
of maker.ini, replace this line:
Courier, Italic, *=Courier, Oblique, *, Regular
with this line:
Courier, Italic, *=CourierItalic, Oblique, *, Regular

This makes FM call the italics Courier font "CourierItalic".

3. Open FM. Define the character tag to use CourierItalic instead of
Courier.

Thanks very much for your help, Richard. There's no way I'd have worked
it out by myself. And once I had more of an idea what to google for, I
found a post by Shlomo Perets that was very helpful too, so Shlomo, if
you're reading this, thanks too.

Cheers, Rebecca

>>> "rebecca officer"  1/02/07
10:52 >>>
Thanks Richard!

I did the quick test (Courier -> Courier New) and it didn't preserve
the italics but did preserve the different font in the xref. So the
bits
that I wanted to have Courier New italics were Courier New. That's a
lot
closer than I was before!

So by the look of it, I need to find/make a version of Courier that
has
the italics as its "regular" form. That should be do-able. If anyone
knows how off the top of their head, I'd appreciate the info.
Otherwise,
I'll go play.

Cheers, Rebecca

>>> "Combs, Richard"  1/02/07 10:21 >>>
rebecca officer wrote:

> I just wondered if anyone has a trick that lets you make a 
> cross-reference to something that includes character-tagged 
> text, and preserve the character tag in the cross-reference?
> 
> We document commands, and some of them have italics in part 
> of the command syntax. In the associated step-by-step 
> instructions, the most reliable way to include the command 
> syntax is to use cross-references.
> But the italics get lost. :-(

I vaguely recall someone describing a (somewhat difficult) solution
for
this once, but don't have time to search for the post right now. IIRC,
it was based on the fact that xrefs retain char formats that use a
different font family. So, you need to create a copy of the font used
with a new name -- I think you need Fontographer or equivalent because
you have to change the internal name of the font. 

For instance, if you're using Courier for your commands, and applying
the Variable char tag to italicize the variables, you create a new
font,
CourierCopy, and redefine the Variable char tag to be CourierCopy
Italic. FM will retain this in your xrefs. 

As a quick test, try it with two similar-looking fonts, such as the
PostScript font Courier and its TrueType cousin, Courier New -- if
that
works and looks OK, maybe you're done! :-) 

HTH!
Richard

--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

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Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Rebecca . L . Frasure

Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an 
article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They 
underlined a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is 
Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent 
development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my officemates that 
Framemaker is the best software for what we do, which are 700+ page 
manuals, with multiple updates and constant repagination. I know nothing 
about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to 
replace, I'm getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some 
knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.

Thank very much in advance!

Becky Frasure


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Re: Replacing Framemaker

At 06:39 -0500 1/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an article 
>from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They underlined 
>a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, 
>which is starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans may 
>want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Writer appears to be more of a potential replacement for Word than for 
applications like FrameMaker.

There's a detailed comparison here:

And of course, Writer does not support structure.

As for 'starting to show its age and lack of recent development', followers of 
this group already know that this is not true.

-- 
Steve
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Re: Replacing Framemaker


I wouldn't call this "lack of recent development":

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/framemaker_ap/

Definitely something worth considering if you plan on going structured.



--
Yves Barbion
Documentation Architect
Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor




On 2/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an
article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They
underlined a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is
Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent
development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my officemates that
Framemaker is the best software for what we do, which are 700+ page
manuals, with multiple updates and constant repagination. I know nothing
about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to
replace, I'm getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some
knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.

Thank very much in advance!

Becky Frasure


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Re: Replacing Framemaker

Very good reference indeed. IMHO, the main drawback of OOo vs M$Word
is that it tries too much to imitate the latter.

I use OOo a lot, but i find it much harder to work with than
FrameMaker. It seems to default to arbitrary formatting rather than
paragraph and character formatting tags, which it has. Like M$W, OOo
does too much guessing on what you are going to to regarding numbering
etc.

Bodvar

On 2/1/07, Steve Rickaby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

At 06:39 -0500 1/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an article from the January STC
Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They underlined a paragraph which says, "also
absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent
development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Writer appears to be more of a potential replacement for Word than for
applications like FrameMaker.

There's a detailed comparison here:

And of course, Writer does not support structure.

As for 'starting to show its age and lack of recent development', followers of
this group already know that this is not true.

--
Steve
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Re: Replacing Framemaker


And this might help as well:

http://www.adobe.com/products/special/crossproduct/tech_communication/faq.html#item-1-2




--
Yves Barbion
Documentation Architect
Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor



On 2/1/07, Yves Barbion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I wouldn't call this "lack of recent development":

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/framemaker_ap/

Definitely something worth considering if you plan on going structured.



--
Yves Barbion
Documentation Architect
Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor




On 2/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an
> article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software."
> They
> underlined a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is
> Adobe Framemaker, which is starting to show its age and lack of recent
> development. Fans may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
>
> Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my officemates that
> Framemaker is the best software for what we do, which are 700+ page
> manuals, with multiple updates and constant repagination. I know nothing
>
> about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to
> replace, I'm getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some
> knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.
>
> Thank very much in advance!
>
> Becky Frasure
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
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Re: Replacing Framemaker

Rebecca

>Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me), an article 
>from the January STC Magazine Intercom called "Old Software." They underlined 
>a paragraph which says, "also absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, 
>which is starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans may 
>want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."

Just an afterthought... Too often folks who criticize FrameMaker like this have 
no real, or deep, knowledge of the application or what it can do. The writer of 
that article should be made to justify their words.

I sometimes think I'd dearly like to see a head-to-head challenge between a 
competent FrameMaker user and a competent Word user (or 'FrameMaker 
'alternative of your choice' user) to perform a series of standard operations 
we take for granted in FrameMaker. Such a test could involve creating a 
template with a dozen styles, expanding that into a book, top and tailing the 
book, indexing a few paragraphs, making all the table styles consistent, and so 
on... against the clock.

The results would be interesting, to say the least. And the demonstration of 
FrameMaker's ability to do ordinary things faster, and out-of-the-ordinary 
things *at all*, would maybe sell a load more site licenses to middle 
management.

By the way, someone on the 'FrameMaker for OS X' group might have messed with 
Writer, if you want to post there for real-world experiences.

-- 
Steve
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Re: QA wants unique edition number in changed footers


The easiest way IMHO is to use the markers "Header/Footer $1" and/or
"Header/Footer $2" and reference these in the footer with, say,
"RunningH/F 3" and/or "RunningH/F 4" resp., which read these markers.
These two markers and system variables are there to meet the need of
showing a revision number (letter or number) and a revision date, both
extensively used in aviation documentation.

You put the marker(s) somewhere on the first page of each chapter and
enter whatever letter or number you want to use for the revision
status in the text box.

If you need to show different revision numbers in any other page in
the same chapter (file), just repeat the action for that page, and
then every page that has a different revision status from the page
before.

HTH,

Bodvar


On 1/31/07, Andersen, Verner Engell VEA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi
I am using unstructured Framemaker 7.2

All my FM book files contain all master pages, all variables, all reference 
pages etc. This means that if you accidentially copy formats from one file to 
anoter nothing will go wrong.

My edition number in the footer is simply a global variable. Now the QA 
Department wants each chapter to have an editon number according to when 
changes were made. This means that some chapters have edition k, others edition 
l and so forth.

Have you any idea of how I can have the various edition numbers in footer of 
each chapter page and still have the possibility of importing all formats from 
all files without messing things up?

I want to avoid specific master pages for each chapter.

Regards,
Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
Åkandevej 21 ● 2700 Brønshøj ● Denmark
Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.radiometer.com 



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Database Publishing book

2007-02-01 Thread Pat Bensky

Hello Framers,

I am thinking of writing a book about database publishing. It would cover
publishing with InDesign and Quark (possibly FrameMaker and Word as well)
using the following methods:

InDesign tags
Quark tags
Xtags, Xdata
XML
RTF (perhaps)
FrameMaker tags (maybe)

But before I commit to devoting all the many days it would take to complete
the project, I thought I would see if there would be much interest in such a
thing. Please let me know your thoughts and what content you would be
particularly interested in having covered.

Thanks!

Pat
--
CatBase: The Database Publishing Solution
CatBase Software Ltd.
T: +44 (0) 1462 454522
W: http://www.catbase.com
skype: pat.bensky
--




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RE: Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Dov Isaacs

On behalf of Adobe and without getting into details (sorry),
let me assure you that the next version of FrameMaker is 
under active development.

- Dov


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 3:39 AM
> To:   framers@frameusers.com
> Subject: Replacing Framemaker
> 
> Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out 
> me), an article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called 
> "Old Software." They underlined a paragraph which says, "also 
> absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, which is 
> starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans 
> may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
> 
> Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my 
> officemates that Framemaker is the best software for what we 
> do, which are 700+ page manuals, with multiple updates and 
> constant repagination. I know nothing about OpenOffice.org 
> Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to replace, I'm 
> getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some 
> knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.
> 
> Thank very much in advance!
> 
> Becky Frasure
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Re: Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Joe Malin


I usually ignore what the STC says.

What part of usda is aphis? My mom used to work for arserrc.

JOe

Yves Barbion wrote:

I wouldn't call this "lack of recent development":

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/framemaker_ap/

Definitely something worth considering if you plan on going structured.





--


*Joe Malin*

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: Replacing Framemaker


One detail, please?
Here, or still in exile in India?

Art

On 2/1/07, Dov Isaacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On behalf of Adobe and without getting into details (sorry),
let me assure you that the next version of FrameMaker is
under active development.

- Dov


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 3:39 AM
> To:   framers@frameusers.com
> Subject: Replacing Framemaker
>
> Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out
> me), an article from the January STC Magazine Intercom called
> "Old Software." They underlined a paragraph which says, "also
> absent from this discussion is Adobe Framemaker, which is
> starting to show its age and lack of recent development. Fans
> may want to consider using OpenOffice.org Writer."
>
> Now that's not true, is it? I am always arguing with my
> officemates that Framemaker is the best software for what we
> do, which are 700+ page manuals, with multiple updates and
> constant repagination. I know nothing about OpenOffice.org
> Writer. Does anyone else? I have no desire to replace, I'm
> getting ready to learn Structured, but I need some
> knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.
>
> Thank very much in advance!
>
> Becky Frasure
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--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
  and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
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RE: Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Combs, Richard

Art Campbell wrote: 
 
> One detail, please?
> Here, or still in exile in India?

Why does that matter? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




 
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RE: Captions: dynamic or relative indentation for autonumbered paragraph format

2007-02-01 Thread Rene S.

-Original Message-
From: Christine Beck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>Isn't it easier to create a paragraph tag for your Figure Titles? You
>can use Ctrl M to position them as you wish and save the new tag.


All of this assumes that there is a paragraph tag created for the captions,
separate from the one holding the anchored frame insertion. I'm sorry that I
wasn't clear in my original post. 

What I'm trying to reinvent (or rediscover) was the way to have flexible
indentation of the caption paragraph based on surrounding paragraph tag's
indentation. The idea is to keep the paragraph formats centralized and
minimal, rather than having to set up 5 different formats just to
accommodate figure caption indentation, or having to do manual overrides
(CTRL+M) to change the indentation for most captions to various different
levels. 

I don't know if the old templates hinged upon a script or .cfg modification,
but it was detailed in a single procedure, like a job aid for the writers,
and it worked flawlessly. We only had 1 pgf tag for the fig captions, but
following "the procedure" made it behave in a dynamic manner for
indentations. It was a lot faster than doing overrides and a lot cleaner and
easier to manage from the template level and during WIP than multiple
paragraph tags (and trying to get people to learn/remember which one to use
and do all the edit markups associated therewith).

It's possible, been done before - I just can't remember HOW and was hoping
someone else out there has also done this or can point me to a script or
.cfg modification that could be used toward it...or maybe someone lurking on
this list worked at that former employer of mine and remembers more!  :-)  

Rene

"Y'all think I'm crazy or smoking something illegal...but I'm not."



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Re: How long to learn framescript?

2007-02-01 Thread Kevin Hunter

At 11:45 -0800 22/1/07, Diane Gaskill wrote:

>I'm considering asking my manager to buy FrameScript for me and I have 
>to justify it of course.  Does anyone have any data on how long it 
>takes to become reasonably proficient using it. I have 4 years of sw 
>dev experience and 15 years of FM experience.

Hi Diane,

I get the digest version of the mailing list and have been away so didn't get a 
chance to read this earlier.

I just wanted to respond to your query from a different point of view: We had a 
series of user guides (totaling some 4000 pages) to which I wanted to apply 
some across-the-board formatting changes, resulting from inadequate document 
design and just a general need to update the look of our guides. Because of 
those same initial document design problems, I was having to perform some types 
of change manually, page by page... So after completing the changes across a 
few hundred pages, we looked at automating those, and eventually bought 
framescript, and complemented that with a couple of scripts we commissioned 
from Rick Quatro (Carmen Publishing). The scripts worked exactly as we needed, 
and completed correctly, in seconds, what would have required a few dozen hours 
of mind-numbingly repetitive work (where obviously I would have missed some 
changes, and been running into them periodically for months or years).

So in our case, I never learned a thing about framescript other than how to run 
a script, but it paid for itself in a few minutes. And as others have said, 
because of the hassle often involved in learning scripts, as long as you have 
an understanding boss (who will trust your judgement on which tasks are worth 
hiring out and not delay that process more than a day or two), in the long run 
the most efficient and least stressful option might be to order your scripts 
from a consultant; in our case, it allowed me to focus on the tasks I'm 
primarily hired to do, and to me, this solution to our problem we had was akin 
to waving a magic wand at it and making it go away, it was immensely satisfying.

Kevin Hunter

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Re: Replacing Framemaker


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I know nothing
about OpenOffice.org Writer. Does anyone else? 


It's very much like MS Word, in the way it is cumbersome and unintuitive 
and at least a little bit unstable.


I have used it to edit a document created by someone else. The first 
thing that went wrong was... the Numbering! Mucking about with some 
numbered paragraphs crashed the program and lost my work. I have also 
been trying to apply a figure numbering style that includes chapnum, and 
find that OOo keeps dropping the hyphen from the style definition. The 
dialog boxes are like Word, in that you have to drill down a million 
levels to set options. The on-line Help is reference oriented, not task 
oriented, so you're left guessing at what features exist by what names 
that will do what you want.


In short, it's been every bit as irritating and frustrating as Word, and 
I wouldn't use it for anything more than memos and very short reports 
(which is what I use Word for).


regards,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"Developers explain How the Product Works.
Technical writers explain How to Work the Product."


Get Firefox!
http://tinyurl.com/8q9c5
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Re: Replacing Framemaker


Steve Rickaby wrote:

I sometimes think I'd dearly like to see a head-to-head challenge
between a competent FrameMaker user and a competent Word user (or
'FrameMaker 'alternative of your choice' user) to perform a series of
standard operations we take for granted in FrameMaker. Such a test
could involve creating a template with a dozen styles, expanding that
into a book, top and tailing the book, indexing a few paragraphs,
making all the table styles consistent, and so on... against the
clock.


For an outline of just such a test (and a lovely laugh as you imagine 
the progress of each individual), see

http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/demo.html

cheers,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"Developers explain How the Product Works.
Technical writers explain How to Work the Product."


Get Firefox!
http://tinyurl.com/8q9c5
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Re: Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Alan Litchfield


Rebecca,

On 2/02/2007, at 12:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Someone left on my desk (presumably to irritate the heck out me)




I am always arguing with my officemates that
Framemaker is the best software for what we do,




but I need some
knowlegable words from my fellow listmates.



Hmm,  take a deep breath and count to 10 :)

I would say that they left the bait and you bit it.

If you must, send some of the great information that has been  
supplied to the magazine publishers in a letter to the editor, or if  
they have online version, respond to that.


Cheers
Alan
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Re: Replacing Framemaker

2007-02-01 Thread Bill Briggs

At 12:43 PM + 2/1/07, Steve Rickaby wrote:
>I sometimes think I'd dearly like to see a head-to-head challenge between a 
>competent FrameMaker user and a competent Word user (or 'FrameMaker 
>'alternative of your choice' user) to perform a series of standard operations 
>we take for granted in FrameMaker. Such a test could involve creating a 
>template with a dozen styles, expanding that into a book, top and tailing the 
>book, indexing a few paragraphs, making all the table styles consistent, and 
>so on... against the clock.

 I did this exact thing at Macworld a few years ago. It was the desktop pub 
shootout, or some such title. There was a Quark expert, an ID expert, and me 
driving FrameMaker. We took turns doing things that showed the application's 
"stuff" and challenged the others to match it. MS Word wasn't even invited to 
the shootout as it wasn't considered a contender.

 All things considered, FrameMaker held its ground against the others. It 
couldn't match the typography of ID, and was not as graceful at doing magazine 
style layout with lots of graphics, but it kicked some butt in the area where 
we all know it shines, like number streams, cross references, conditional text, 
etc.

 There was no clear winner. It came down to choosing the right tool for the 
job. Of course ID and Quark were fighting for supremacy in the same DTP space. 
FrameMaker has a feature set that focuses on other things. But it held its own.

 My most vivid memory of the shootout was the audible gasp from Jay (who was 
driving Quark) when, with a couple of keystrokes, I imported an image into a 
table cell. Apparently that wasn't easy to do in Quark at that time.

 But then we all know the virtues of FrameMaker.

- web
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Re: Database Publishing book

--- Pat Bensky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Framers,
> I am thinking of writing a book about database
> publishing. It would cover
> publishing with InDesign and Quark (possibly
> FrameMaker and Word as well)
> using the following methods:
> 
> InDesign tags
> Quark tags
> Xtags, Xdata
> XML
> RTF (perhaps)
> FrameMaker tags (maybe)
===
I've been developing database publishing applications
for clients for about 14 years. In some cases, I
deliver turnkey applications to my customer. In other
cases, I produce the finished output (typically
annually).

Your list of methods barely scratches the surface, and
does seem to address only the most simple database
publishing applications, which, in my experience, is
rarely enough. Nor do you seem to be addressing he
wide array of products/solutions which are available,
as well as the extremely wide variety of applications
in which database publishing can be employed
effectively. 

Your definition of what you mean by database
publishing will determine the scope of your book. The
broadest definition would encompass all special
solutions whose purpose is to process raw output from
a database so as to deliver it in a form that is
useable to both human and non-human users.

In the case of delivery to human users, such solutions
typically include customizeable middleware which can
receive/processe/manipulate the raw database output,
and makes the processed data compatible with the
selected formatting/output engine (e.g., FrameMaker,
Quark, Word (ugh) or InDesign).

If, for example, FrameMaker is chosen as the
formatting/output engine, several customizable
middleware products are available, including
PatternStream, Miramo and UniMerge. Such middlewar
products require the development of a special 
application for each production operation, which may,
among other things, involve evaluatiing each database
record so as to select/delete/rearrange the sequence
of the data fields in each record before it is
delivered to FrameMaker. UniMerge (the product I use)
can also specify the FrameMaker format tag to be
applied to individual fields, add markers to specify
fields whose content is used to produce running
header/footers, specify fields which are to be
included in a table of contents, insert static text
above, below or within a sequence of record fields,
specify that some or all fields in a record field be
placed within a FrameMaker table, truncate the data in
a field, add mathematical operations on rows or
columns in a tabular array, and many other functions
which radically alter the raw database input before
delivering output to FrameMaker.

Very large database publishing solutions are very
complex, and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars
to develop,operate and maintain successfully.
===

Dan Emory & Associates
FrameMaker/FrameMaker+SGML Document Design & Database Publishing
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: Replacing Framemaker

The publication by the STC of this article
demonstrates the declining relevance of that
organization.


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Re: Replacing Framemaker