RE: Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Chen, Loretta]

Thanks everyone for the information. 
 
I don't see why a "bad" machine would produce a bad on-screen line that
is then visible on a good machine. But I'll make some final checks on
the uniformity of our printer driver and call it a day.
 
While frustrating, it does takes the heat off me for not being able to
figure out what's going on. 
 
So thanks for the info!
 
L.
 


From: Fred Ridder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:51 AM
To: Doug; Chen, Loretta
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Table rules randomly dark in pdfs


Doug wrote:

> In my experience the true test is whether the rules print
> normally...Acrobat has a reputation for not being able to draw lines
> well. If the hardcopy is fine, just ignore the inconsistent ruling.
 
Just to clarify: Acrobat's problems with line widths is on-screen 
only, and it all has to do with how Acrobat handles fractional 
pixel widths. If a line in a document happens to straddle the 
boundary between two pixels in the screen image, Acrobat may 
draw *both* pixels as black even though the proper line width
is 1 pixel or less. If you increase the zoom factor so that most 
lines are more than 1 or 2 screen pixels in width to begin with, 
the difference of an extra pixel on some lines becomes a lot less 
noticeable. 
 
But regardless of the on-screen display anomaly, Acrobat always 
produces line widths in printed output that are accurate within
the printer resolution (e.g. 1/600 inch).  
 
 




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Re: FrameMaker XML inDesign XML imports

[David Creamer]

> What we do here is take let's say 100 products which include the
> image, descriptions, and all the corresponding sizes or colors in a
> table, and export from a filemaker database and then import into
> Frame. Frame streams all the information into the template -- all 100
> products -- where we then lay them out in the template. I can then
> take each individual product and apply a straddle here, resize a
> table there, etc. Each product is its own entity within frame.
> If I do the exact same import into InDesign, all 100 products become
> just one large text block and they lose their individuality and thus
> I lose the ability to design each prouct.
> Can that individuality somehow be maintained with ID??? Plugins
> perhaps???
> 
With InDesign, you might want to take a slightly different approach and look
at EmSoftware.com plug-ins: InData and InCatalog. (InCatalog can even
maintain a "live" link to your database.)

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified


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FrameMaker XML inDesign XML imports

[David Creamer]

> What we do here is take let's say 100 products which include the
> image, descriptions, and all the corresponding sizes or colors in a
> table, and export from a filemaker database and then import into
> Frame. Frame streams all the information into the template -- all 100
> products -- where we then lay them out in the template. I can then
> take each individual product and apply a straddle here, resize a
> table there, etc. Each product is its own entity within frame.
> If I do the exact same import into InDesign, all 100 products become
> just one large text block and they lose their individuality and thus
> I lose the ability to design each prouct.
> Can that individuality somehow be maintained with ID??? Plugins
> perhaps???
> 
With InDesign, you might want to take a slightly different approach and look
at EmSoftware.com plug-ins: InData and InCatalog. (InCatalog can even
maintain a "live" link to your database.)

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified

Re: Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

> Actually that is not strictly correct. There are a wide range of
> variables that can be used in QXP for number of defined purposes and
> if you are using Quark Tags (somewhat similar in its execution to MIF)
> the range is much wider. However the functionality built into it is
> not as extensive as FMs.

Are you referring to XPress tags, Synchronized Text/Shared Content, or XML
tags?

XPress tags, for the most part, are for inserting codes for formatting and
indexing info. As far as I know, it does not have a feature that works
similar to the FrameMaker or InDesign variables.

Shared Content is useful, but not the same way as Frame/ID variables. Text
content is for an entire Item (a.k.a. Frame or Object), not for in-line
text.

If XML, the same general process can also work with Frame and InDesign.

Can you clarify your usage of Quark Tags as variables?


David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified


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Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

> Actually that is not strictly correct. There are a wide range of
> variables that can be used in QXP for number of defined purposes and
> if you are using Quark Tags (somewhat similar in its execution to MIF)
> the range is much wider. However the functionality built into it is
> not as extensive as FMs.

Are you referring to XPress tags, Synchronized Text/Shared Content, or XML
tags?

XPress tags, for the most part, are for inserting codes for formatting and
indexing info. As far as I know, it does not have a feature that works
similar to the FrameMaker or InDesign variables.

Shared Content is useful, but not the same way as Frame/ID variables. Text
content is for an entire Item (a.k.a. Frame or Object), not for in-line
text.

If XML, the same general process can also work with Frame and InDesign.

Can you clarify your usage of Quark Tags as variables?


David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified

Re: Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

On Linda Lecomte at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/30/07 8:36 AM:

> Thanks David. This was helpful and I probably will have more questions. I do
> have two right now:
> What do you mean by Quark does not do numbered lists or footnotes natively.
> Also, is outsourcing this project to you an option. I might consider that if
> they insist on Quark. Please let me know when you have a chance. Thanks!

The are third-party XTensions (plug-ins):
Gluon.com Pro for Bullets & Numbers

VirginaSystems.com for Cross-Reference Generator,
Figure and Table Numbering, and Foonote/Endnote Management.

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified


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Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

On Linda Lecomte at lecomte at comcast.net wrote on 11/30/07 8:36 AM:

> Thanks David. This was helpful and I probably will have more questions. I do
> have two right now:
> What do you mean by Quark does not do numbered lists or footnotes natively.
> Also, is outsourcing this project to you an option. I might consider that if
> they insist on Quark. Please let me know when you have a chance. Thanks!

The are third-party XTensions (plug-ins):
Gluon.com Pro for Bullets & Numbers

VirginaSystems.com for Cross-Reference Generator,
Figure and Table Numbering, and Foonote/Endnote Management.

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified

Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Chen, Loretta]

Thanks everyone for the information. 

I don't see why a "bad" machine would produce a bad on-screen line that
is then visible on a good machine. But I'll make some final checks on
the uniformity of our printer driver and call it a day.

While frustrating, it does takes the heat off me for not being able to
figure out what's going on. 

So thanks for the info!

L.



From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:51 AM
To: Doug; Chen, Loretta
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Table rules randomly dark in pdfs


Doug wrote:

> In my experience the true test is whether the rules print
> normally...Acrobat has a reputation for not being able to draw lines
> well. If the hardcopy is fine, just ignore the inconsistent ruling.

Just to clarify: Acrobat's problems with line widths is on-screen 
only, and it all has to do with how Acrobat handles fractional 
pixel widths. If a line in a document happens to straddle the 
boundary between two pixels in the screen image, Acrobat may 
draw *both* pixels as black even though the proper line width
is 1 pixel or less. If you increase the zoom factor so that most 
lines are more than 1 or 2 screen pixels in width to begin with, 
the difference of an extra pixel on some lines becomes a lot less 
noticeable. 

But regardless of the on-screen display anomaly, Acrobat always 
produces line widths in printed output that are accurate within
the printer resolution (e.g. 1/600 inch).  






Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!
  

Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Fred Ridder]

Doug wrote:
> In my experience the true test is whether the rules print
> normally...Acrobat has a reputation for not being able to draw lines
> well. If the hardcopy is fine, just ignore the inconsistent ruling.

Just to clarify: Acrobat's problems with line widths is on-screen 
only, and it all has to do with how Acrobat handles fractional 
pixel widths. If a line in a document happens to straddle the 
boundary between two pixels in the screen image, Acrobat may 
draw *both* pixels as black even though the proper line width
is 1 pixel or less. If you increase the zoom factor so that most 
lines are more than 1 or 2 screen pixels in width to begin with, 
the difference of an extra pixel on some lines becomes a lot less 
noticeable. 

But regardless of the on-screen display anomaly, Acrobat always 
produces line widths in printed output that are accurate within
the printer resolution (e.g. 1/600 inch).  


_
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Quark versus FrameMaker

[Holwell, Pat]

As noted, Quark is really a designing application and not really meant for 
writing documentation. We tried using it in my organization, but found that it 
couldn't handle large manuals very well & it crashed everytime we tried to 
generate a TOC & Index, 

--

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Creamer
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:06 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Quark versus FrameMaker

> I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand their
> technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their new brand. I
> suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway thought of Quark as
> more appropriate for designers that do brochures, etc.
> 
> Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would appreciate any
> advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical documentation. I guess
> what I am really looking for is information to sell them on FrameMaker over
> Quark.
> 
This was a questions I answered recently for Layers Magazine--it concerns
InDesign and FrameMaker, but I will discuss QuarkXPress at the end:

Q: I?m trying to decide between InDesign and FrameMaker for producing my
books. Any advice?
A: Both programs are very good for producing books, but generally, InDesign
is better graphically, while FrameMaker is better in some specialized (but
important) areas. For example, Frame has conditional text (hide/show text),
multiple indices, more advanced XML support, track changes*,
cross-referencing**, document compare, built-in equation editor**,
cross-column headlines, and table footnotes. InDesign excels in the graphics
area, including native Illustrator and Photoshop import with full
transparency support, built-in transparency and Photoshop-like effects, the
standard Adobe pen tool, color management, multi-media support, and better
PDF export. Features that are more-or-less equal include table styles,
variables, numbered lists, anchored graphics, and overall text formatting. I
should also mention that InDesign is cross-platform, while FrameMaker not
available on the Mac.

*Available in InDesign using InCopy
**Available in InDesign as third-party plug-in

Comparing QuarkXPress to InDesign...
Quark's tables are very limited, it does not do numbered lists or footnotes
natively, it's text formatting/editing is not as capable, and it does not
have variables (or any of the above mentioned Frame features).

This comparison is not meant to be complete. Feel free to contact me if you
have any other questions about the three programs.

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert in FrameMaker and InDesign
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)


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RE: Quark versus FrameMaker

[Chris Borokowski]

I love Quark and InDesign, and learned to like PageMaker too back in
the day, but these are desktop publishing applications. They are for
creating layouts.

FrameMaker, on the other hand, is a document management tool. It's
better for authoring, in my view. Microsoft Word is a kind of hybrid
that does 90% of things 90% well, and OpenOffice is a Java-based text
editor that pretends to do layout and document management.

Just my two cents on the stage of the authoring tools right now.

--- "Holwell, Pat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As noted, Quark is really a designing application and not really
> meant for writing documentation. We tried using it in my
> organization, but found that it couldn't handle large manuals very
> well & it crashed everytime we tried to generate a TOC & Index, 
> 
> --
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
> Creamer
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:06 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: Quark versus FrameMaker
> 
> > I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand
> their
> > technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their
> new brand. I
> > suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway thought
> of Quark as
> > more appropriate for designers that do brochures, etc.
> > 
> > Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would
> appreciate any
> > advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical
> documentation. I guess
> > what I am really looking for is information to sell them on
> FrameMaker over
> > Quark.
> > 
> This was a questions I answered recently for Layers Magazine--it
> concerns
> InDesign and FrameMaker, but I will discuss QuarkXPress at the end:
> 
> Q: I¹m trying to decide between InDesign and FrameMaker for producing
> my
> books. Any advice?
> A: Both programs are very good for producing books, but generally,
> InDesign
> is better graphically, while FrameMaker is better in some specialized
> (but
> important) areas. For example, Frame has conditional text (hide/show
> text),
> multiple indices, more advanced XML support, track changes*,
> cross-referencing**, document compare, built-in equation editor**,
> cross-column headlines, and table footnotes. InDesign excels in the
> graphics
> area, including native Illustrator and Photoshop import with full
> transparency support, built-in transparency and Photoshop-like
> effects, the
> standard Adobe pen tool, color management, multi-media support, and
> better
> PDF export. Features that are more-or-less equal include table
> styles,
> variables, numbered lists, anchored graphics, and overall text
> formatting. I
> should also mention that InDesign is cross-platform, while FrameMaker
> not
> available on the Mac.
> 
> *Available in InDesign using InCopy
> **Available in InDesign as third-party plug-in
> 
> Comparing QuarkXPress to InDesign...
> Quark's tables are very limited, it does not do numbered lists or
> footnotes
> natively, it's text formatting/editing is not as capable, and it does
> not
> have variables (or any of the above mentioned Frame features).
> 
> This comparison is not meant to be complete. Feel free to contact me
> if you
> have any other questions about the three programs.
> 
> David Creamer
> I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
> http://www.IDEAStraining.com
> Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert in FrameMaker and InDesign
> Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or visit
>
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/pat.holwell%40idearc.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or visit
>
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> 
> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 


http://technical-writing.dionysius.com/
technical writing | consulting | development


  

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Send administrati

Quark versus FrameMaker

[Chris Borokowski]

I love Quark and InDesign, and learned to like PageMaker too back in
the day, but these are desktop publishing applications. They are for
creating layouts.

FrameMaker, on the other hand, is a document management tool. It's
better for authoring, in my view. Microsoft Word is a kind of hybrid
that does 90% of things 90% well, and OpenOffice is a Java-based text
editor that pretends to do layout and document management.

Just my two cents on the stage of the authoring tools right now.

--- "Holwell, Pat"  wrote:

> As noted, Quark is really a designing application and not really
> meant for writing documentation. We tried using it in my
> organization, but found that it couldn't handle large manuals very
> well & it crashed everytime we tried to generate a TOC & Index, 
> 
> --
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David
> Creamer
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:06 AM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: Quark versus FrameMaker
> 
> > I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand
> their
> > technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their
> new brand. I
> > suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway thought
> of Quark as
> > more appropriate for designers that do brochures, etc.
> > 
> > Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would
> appreciate any
> > advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical
> documentation. I guess
> > what I am really looking for is information to sell them on
> FrameMaker over
> > Quark.
> > 
> This was a questions I answered recently for Layers Magazine--it
> concerns
> InDesign and FrameMaker, but I will discuss QuarkXPress at the end:
> 
> Q: I?m trying to decide between InDesign and FrameMaker for producing
> my
> books. Any advice?
> A: Both programs are very good for producing books, but generally,
> InDesign
> is better graphically, while FrameMaker is better in some specialized
> (but
> important) areas. For example, Frame has conditional text (hide/show
> text),
> multiple indices, more advanced XML support, track changes*,
> cross-referencing**, document compare, built-in equation editor**,
> cross-column headlines, and table footnotes. InDesign excels in the
> graphics
> area, including native Illustrator and Photoshop import with full
> transparency support, built-in transparency and Photoshop-like
> effects, the
> standard Adobe pen tool, color management, multi-media support, and
> better
> PDF export. Features that are more-or-less equal include table
> styles,
> variables, numbered lists, anchored graphics, and overall text
> formatting. I
> should also mention that InDesign is cross-platform, while FrameMaker
> not
> available on the Mac.
> 
> *Available in InDesign using InCopy
> **Available in InDesign as third-party plug-in
> 
> Comparing QuarkXPress to InDesign...
> Quark's tables are very limited, it does not do numbered lists or
> footnotes
> natively, it's text formatting/editing is not as capable, and it does
> not
> have variables (or any of the above mentioned Frame features).
> 
> This comparison is not meant to be complete. Feel free to contact me
> if you
> have any other questions about the three programs.
> 
> David Creamer
> I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
> http://www.IDEAStraining.com
> Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert in FrameMaker and InDesign
> Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as pat.holwell at idearc.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
>
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/pat.holwell%40idearc.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as athloi at yahoo.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
>
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/athloi%40yahoo.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 


http://technical-writing.dionysius.com/
technical writing | consulting | development


  

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Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.  
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RE: Quark versus FrameMaker

[Holwell, Pat]

As noted, Quark is really a designing application and not really meant for 
writing documentation. We tried using it in my organization, but found that it 
couldn't handle large manuals very well & it crashed everytime we tried to 
generate a TOC & Index, 

--

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Creamer
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:06 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Quark versus FrameMaker

> I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand their
> technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their new brand. I
> suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway thought of Quark as
> more appropriate for designers that do brochures, etc.
> 
> Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would appreciate any
> advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical documentation. I guess
> what I am really looking for is information to sell them on FrameMaker over
> Quark.
> 
This was a questions I answered recently for Layers Magazine--it concerns
InDesign and FrameMaker, but I will discuss QuarkXPress at the end:

Q: I¹m trying to decide between InDesign and FrameMaker for producing my
books. Any advice?
A: Both programs are very good for producing books, but generally, InDesign
is better graphically, while FrameMaker is better in some specialized (but
important) areas. For example, Frame has conditional text (hide/show text),
multiple indices, more advanced XML support, track changes*,
cross-referencing**, document compare, built-in equation editor**,
cross-column headlines, and table footnotes. InDesign excels in the graphics
area, including native Illustrator and Photoshop import with full
transparency support, built-in transparency and Photoshop-like effects, the
standard Adobe pen tool, color management, multi-media support, and better
PDF export. Features that are more-or-less equal include table styles,
variables, numbered lists, anchored graphics, and overall text formatting. I
should also mention that InDesign is cross-platform, while FrameMaker not
available on the Mac.

*Available in InDesign using InCopy
**Available in InDesign as third-party plug-in

Comparing QuarkXPress to InDesign...
Quark's tables are very limited, it does not do numbered lists or footnotes
natively, it's text formatting/editing is not as capable, and it does not
have variables (or any of the above mentioned Frame features).

This comparison is not meant to be complete. Feel free to contact me if you
have any other questions about the three programs.

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert in FrameMaker and InDesign
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Doug]

In my experience the true test is whether the rules print
normally...Acrobat has a reputation for not being able to draw lines
well.  If the hardcopy is fine, just ignore the inconsistent ruling.

--Doug

On 11/29/07, Chen, Loretta  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We just changed our tables from just header rules to column and row
> ruling. And now we're making pdfs.
>
> Some people's pdfs have random heavy ruling in the table rules. They are
> absolutely fine in the frame file. And if you increase magnification to
> 200% the rules look like the same weight in the pdf, but up until then

Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Peter Hirons]

Loretta,

What you are probably seeing is a result of the screen - sometimes the
line triggers one row of pixels and sometimes two, making it look thicker.
 When you increase the magnification all lines trigger two (or more rows)
and look the same.

If you move the image around on the screen do the line thicknesses change?
 If so, that confirms the diagnosis.

-- 

Regards,

Peter

> Hi,
>
> We just changed our tables from just header rules to column and row
> ruling. And now we're making pdfs.
>
> Some people's pdfs have random heavy ruling in the table rules. They are
> absolutely fine in the frame file. And if you increase magnification to
> 200% the rules look like the same weight in the pdf, but up until then
> -- bad random dark ruling.
>
> We're on Frame 7.2, distiller 8, using our own joboptions. We can't
> figure out what's different from machine to machine.
>
> Bad ruling appears for both folks that are doing a Save as PDF and folks
> that print to postscript and using the distiller to make the pdfs.
>
> And it also works fine with people using both methods of creating pdfs.
>
> It also works & doesn't work on Windows XP and Windows 2000.
>
> (I had them try opening all book files when saving as pdf, and
> uninstalling any earlier versions of distiller -- no change in
> behavior.)
>
> Anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's the distiller, but I can't find any
> useful information?
>
> Thanks,
>
> L.
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as peter at galley.ie.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/peter%40galley.ie
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

RE: Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Fred Ridder]

Doug wrote:
> In my experience the true test is whether the rules print
> normally...Acrobat has a reputation for not being able to draw lines
> well. If the hardcopy is fine, just ignore the inconsistent ruling.
 
Just to clarify: Acrobat's problems with line widths is on-screen 
only, and it all has to do with how Acrobat handles fractional 
pixel widths. If a line in a document happens to straddle the 
boundary between two pixels in the screen image, Acrobat may 
draw *both* pixels as black even though the proper line width
is 1 pixel or less. If you increase the zoom factor so that most 
lines are more than 1 or 2 screen pixels in width to begin with, 
the difference of an extra pixel on some lines becomes a lot less 
noticeable. 
 
But regardless of the on-screen display anomaly, Acrobat always 
produces line widths in printed output that are accurate within
the printer resolution (e.g. 1/600 inch).  
 
 
_
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE!
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Quark versus FrameMaker

[Sylvia Clarke]

We've used both Quark and FrameMaker.  My colleague, a diehard Quark
user, has agreed that for the documents we are creating (user manuals
for medical devices) FrameMaker is the better way to go.  Quark does not
seem to have features for creating books which makes making a global
change in the document very difficult.  There are a number of other
document-specific features that I use in FrameMaker that Quark just
doesn't do, or doesn't do as well.

Regards,
Sylvia 


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Linda Lecomte
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:56 PM
To: framers at frameusers.com
Subject: Quark versus FrameMaker

Hi Everyone,
I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand
their technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their
new brand. I suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway
thought of Quark as more appropriate for designers that do brochures,
etc. 

Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would appreciate
any advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical
documentation. I guess what I am really looking for is information to
sell them on FrameMaker over Quark.

I appreciate any help. Thanks!

--
Regards, 
Linda Lecomte
Owner & Chief Writer
relevant space, llc
www.relevantspace.com
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m

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RE: Quark versus FrameMaker

[Sylvia Clarke]

We've used both Quark and FrameMaker.  My colleague, a diehard Quark
user, has agreed that for the documents we are creating (user manuals
for medical devices) FrameMaker is the better way to go.  Quark does not
seem to have features for creating books which makes making a global
change in the document very difficult.  There are a number of other
document-specific features that I use in FrameMaker that Quark just
doesn't do, or doesn't do as well.

Regards,
Sylvia 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Linda Lecomte
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Quark versus FrameMaker

Hi Everyone,
I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand
their technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their
new brand. I suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway
thought of Quark as more appropriate for designers that do brochures,
etc. 

Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would appreciate
any advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical
documentation. I guess what I am really looking for is information to
sell them on FrameMaker over Quark.

I appreciate any help. Thanks!

--
Regards, 
Linda Lecomte
Owner & Chief Writer
relevant space, llc
www.relevantspace.com
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Re: Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Doug]

In my experience the true test is whether the rules print
normally...Acrobat has a reputation for not being able to draw lines
well.  If the hardcopy is fine, just ignore the inconsistent ruling.

--Doug

On 11/29/07, Chen, Loretta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We just changed our tables from just header rules to column and row
> ruling. And now we're making pdfs.
>
> Some people's pdfs have random heavy ruling in the table rules. They are
> absolutely fine in the frame file. And if you increase magnification to
> 200% the rules look like the same weight in the pdf, but up until then
___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Art Campbell]

If it turns out the rules aren't just visual affects, but actually are
in the PDF, remember that it is possible for the rule thicknesses to
vary from machine to machine if custom ruling is used...

Also, Rick Quatro's Table Cleaner plug in is a great tool for tracking
down and resolving problems like this while still in FM...

Art


On Nov 30, 2007 4:40 AM, Peter Hirons  wrote:
> Loretta,
>
> What you are probably seeing is a result of the screen - sometimes the
> line triggers one row of pixels and sometimes two, making it look thicker.
>  When you increase the magnification all lines trigger two (or more rows)
> and look the same.
>
> If you move the image around on the screen do the line thicknesses change?
>  If so, that confirms the diagnosis.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > We just changed our tables from just header rules to column and row
> > ruling. And now we're making pdfs.
> >
> > Some people's pdfs have random heavy ruling in the table rules. They are
> > absolutely fine in the frame file. And if you increase magnification to
> > 200% the rules look like the same weight in the pdf, but up until then
> > -- bad random dark ruling.
> >
> > We're on Frame 7.2, distiller 8, using our own joboptions. We can't
> > figure out what's different from machine to machine.
> >
> > Bad ruling appears for both folks that are doing a Save as PDF and folks
> > that print to postscript and using the distiller to make the pdfs.
> >
> > And it also works fine with people using both methods of creating pdfs.
> >
> > It also works & doesn't work on Windows XP and Windows 2000.
> >
> > (I had them try opening all book files when saving as pdf, and
> > uninstalling any earlier versions of distiller -- no change in
> > behavior.)
> >
> > Anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's the distiller, but I can't find any
> > useful information?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > L.
> > ___
> >
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to Framers as peter at galley.ie.
> >


-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Detecting a click in the Structure View

[r...@weststreetconsulting.com]

Rick,

The only way I've ever done it is to use the generic click notification, then 
test the active document to see if it is the Structure View. The test I use 
looks for "Structure View" in the title bar, which I know isn't completely 
reliable in all instances.  Something like this, inside of F_ApiNotify():

case   FA_Note_PostMouseCommand:

  //check to see if the structure view is active
  str = F_ApiGetString(FV_SessionId, docId, FP_Label);

  if(F_StrCmp(str, "Structure View"))
  {
F_ApiDeallocateString(&str);

//if the structure view is active, we need to find out which document
//it is currently showing. It will be the document window that is 
currently in front.

docId = F_ApiGetId(0, FV_SessionId, FP_FirstOpenDoc);

while(docId)
{
  tempInt = F_ApiGetInt(FV_SessionId, docId, FP_IsInFront);

  if(tempInt == True) break;

  docId = F_ApiGetId(FV_SessionId, docId, FP_NextOpenDocInSession);
}

//get the id of the selected element. I use a homemade function for this
//that derives the ID from the F_ElementRangeT structure
if(docId)
{
  obj = ws_GetIdOfSelectedElement(docId, False);
}
else obj = 0;

if(obj)
{

  /* code to do something with the element that was clicked */
}


F_ApiDeallocateString(&str);

  }

  break;




>>
>>
--

>>Message: 11
>>Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:15:39 -0500
>From: "Rick Quatro" 
>Subject: Detecting a click in the Structure View
>To: 
>Message-ID: <01ac01c832cc$fe94a210$0200a8c0 at CARMENOFFICE>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>reply-type=original

>Hello Framers,

>I want to detect a left-mouse click in the structure view, for example, when 
>a user clicks on an element bubble. Does anyone have any FDK or FrameScript 
>code that shows how to do this? Thank you very much.

>Rick Quatro
>Carmen Publishing
>585-659-8267
>www.frameexpert.com

>>
>>

Re: Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

> If I may, a quick question about InDesign. Can InDesign import xml
> and have the information act like it does in Frame.
> Background:
> We use Frame as part of our software we have designed. This software
> does marketing and is also able to export and then import into Frame
> to create large Industrial Catalogs. Very technical with images. We
> can also export and import into InDesign. However when we autoflow a
> stream of data (data consisting of feature information, table
> ordering information and an image) the autoflow is just one big text
> block. You can't tell one product to straddle while another to fit in
> column, etc., like you do with Frame.
> So I teach our clients to drag the individual pieces that make up the
> data into the InDesign template and individually layout their pages.
> I think there is way to have an automated import of data act like
> Frame in InDesign, we just haven't scratched at it enough.
> Is this possible?

InDesign can import and work with XML data similar to FrameMaker, but I
don't think ID handles it as well as Frame (yet).

ID does not do straddled text like Frame, so while you could automate text,
a table, or a graphic being imported into an anchored frame/object, the type
would not flow the same as it does in Frame. (ID flows top-to-bottom,
left-to-right; Frame will split the flow above-and-below the straddled
element.)

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified


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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

> If I may, a quick question about InDesign. Can InDesign import xml
> and have the information act like it does in Frame.
> Background:
> We use Frame as part of our software we have designed. This software
> does marketing and is also able to export and then import into Frame
> to create large Industrial Catalogs. Very technical with images. We
> can also export and import into InDesign. However when we autoflow a
> stream of data (data consisting of feature information, table
> ordering information and an image) the autoflow is just one big text
> block. You can't tell one product to straddle while another to fit in
> column, etc., like you do with Frame.
> So I teach our clients to drag the individual pieces that make up the
> data into the InDesign template and individually layout their pages.
> I think there is way to have an automated import of data act like
> Frame in InDesign, we just haven't scratched at it enough.
> Is this possible?

InDesign can import and work with XML data similar to FrameMaker, but I
don't think ID handles it as well as Frame (yet).

ID does not do straddled text like Frame, so while you could automate text,
a table, or a graphic being imported into an anchored frame/object, the type
would not flow the same as it does in Frame. (ID flows top-to-bottom,
left-to-right; Frame will split the flow above-and-below the straddled
element.)

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert (since 1995)
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)
Markzware, Enfocus, FileMaker Certified

Re: Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

> I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand their
> technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their new brand. I
> suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway thought of Quark as
> more appropriate for designers that do brochures, etc.
> 
> Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would appreciate any
> advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical documentation. I guess
> what I am really looking for is information to sell them on FrameMaker over
> Quark.
> 
This was a questions I answered recently for Layers Magazine--it concerns
InDesign and FrameMaker, but I will discuss QuarkXPress at the end:

Q: I¹m trying to decide between InDesign and FrameMaker for producing my
books. Any advice?
A: Both programs are very good for producing books, but generally, InDesign
is better graphically, while FrameMaker is better in some specialized (but
important) areas. For example, Frame has conditional text (hide/show text),
multiple indices, more advanced XML support, track changes*,
cross-referencing**, document compare, built-in equation editor**,
cross-column headlines, and table footnotes. InDesign excels in the graphics
area, including native Illustrator and Photoshop import with full
transparency support, built-in transparency and Photoshop-like effects, the
standard Adobe pen tool, color management, multi-media support, and better
PDF export. Features that are more-or-less equal include table styles,
variables, numbered lists, anchored graphics, and overall text formatting. I
should also mention that InDesign is cross-platform, while FrameMaker not
available on the Mac.

*Available in InDesign using InCopy
**Available in InDesign as third-party plug-in

Comparing QuarkXPress to InDesign...
Quark's tables are very limited, it does not do numbered lists or footnotes
natively, it's text formatting/editing is not as capable, and it does not
have variables (or any of the above mentioned Frame features).

This comparison is not meant to be complete. Feel free to contact me if you
have any other questions about the three programs.

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert in FrameMaker and InDesign
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)


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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Quark versus FrameMaker

[David Creamer]

> I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand their
> technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their new brand. I
> suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway thought of Quark as
> more appropriate for designers that do brochures, etc.
> 
> Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would appreciate any
> advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical documentation. I guess
> what I am really looking for is information to sell them on FrameMaker over
> Quark.
> 
This was a questions I answered recently for Layers Magazine--it concerns
InDesign and FrameMaker, but I will discuss QuarkXPress at the end:

Q: I?m trying to decide between InDesign and FrameMaker for producing my
books. Any advice?
A: Both programs are very good for producing books, but generally, InDesign
is better graphically, while FrameMaker is better in some specialized (but
important) areas. For example, Frame has conditional text (hide/show text),
multiple indices, more advanced XML support, track changes*,
cross-referencing**, document compare, built-in equation editor**,
cross-column headlines, and table footnotes. InDesign excels in the graphics
area, including native Illustrator and Photoshop import with full
transparency support, built-in transparency and Photoshop-like effects, the
standard Adobe pen tool, color management, multi-media support, and better
PDF export. Features that are more-or-less equal include table styles,
variables, numbered lists, anchored graphics, and overall text formatting. I
should also mention that InDesign is cross-platform, while FrameMaker not
available on the Mac.

*Available in InDesign using InCopy
**Available in InDesign as third-party plug-in

Comparing QuarkXPress to InDesign...
Quark's tables are very limited, it does not do numbered lists or footnotes
natively, it's text formatting/editing is not as capable, and it does not
have variables (or any of the above mentioned Frame features).

This comparison is not meant to be complete. Feel free to contact me if you
have any other questions about the three programs.

David Creamer
I.D.E.A.S. - Results-Oriented Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Trainer & Expert in FrameMaker and InDesign
Authorized Quark Training Provider (since 1988)

RE: Detecting a click in the Structure View

[russ]

Rick,

The only way I've ever done it is to use the generic click notification, then 
test the active document to see if it is the Structure View. The test I use 
looks for "Structure View" in the title bar, which I know isn't completely 
reliable in all instances.  Something like this, inside of F_ApiNotify():

case   FA_Note_PostMouseCommand:

  //check to see if the structure view is active
  str = F_ApiGetString(FV_SessionId, docId, FP_Label);
  
  if(F_StrCmp(str, "Structure View"))
  {
F_ApiDeallocateString(&str);

//if the structure view is active, we need to find out which document
//it is currently showing. It will be the document window that is 
currently in front.

docId = F_ApiGetId(0, FV_SessionId, FP_FirstOpenDoc);

while(docId)
{
  tempInt = F_ApiGetInt(FV_SessionId, docId, FP_IsInFront);

  if(tempInt == True) break;

  docId = F_ApiGetId(FV_SessionId, docId, FP_NextOpenDocInSession);
}

//get the id of the selected element. I use a homemade function for this
//that derives the ID from the F_ElementRangeT structure
if(docId)
{
  obj = ws_GetIdOfSelectedElement(docId, False);
}
else obj = 0;

if(obj)
{
  
  /* code to do something with the element that was clicked */
}


F_ApiDeallocateString(&str);
  
  }
 
  break;




>>
>>
--

>>Message: 11
>>Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:15:39 -0500
>From: "Rick Quatro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Detecting a click in the Structure View
>To: 
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>reply-type=original

>Hello Framers,

>I want to detect a left-mouse click in the structure view, for example, when 
>a user clicks on an element bubble. Does anyone have any FDK or FrameScript 
>code that shows how to do this? Thank you very much.

>Rick Quatro
>Carmen Publishing
>585-659-8267
>www.frameexpert.com

>>
>>


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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Art Campbell]

If it turns out the rules aren't just visual affects, but actually are
in the PDF, remember that it is possible for the rule thicknesses to
vary from machine to machine if custom ruling is used...

Also, Rick Quatro's Table Cleaner plug in is a great tool for tracking
down and resolving problems like this while still in FM...

Art


On Nov 30, 2007 4:40 AM, Peter Hirons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Loretta,
>
> What you are probably seeing is a result of the screen - sometimes the
> line triggers one row of pixels and sometimes two, making it look thicker.
>  When you increase the magnification all lines trigger two (or more rows)
> and look the same.
>
> If you move the image around on the screen do the line thicknesses change?
>  If so, that confirms the diagnosis.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > We just changed our tables from just header rules to column and row
> > ruling. And now we're making pdfs.
> >
> > Some people's pdfs have random heavy ruling in the table rules. They are
> > absolutely fine in the frame file. And if you increase magnification to
> > 200% the rules look like the same weight in the pdf, but up until then
> > -- bad random dark ruling.
> >
> > We're on Frame 7.2, distiller 8, using our own joboptions. We can't
> > figure out what's different from machine to machine.
> >
> > Bad ruling appears for both folks that are doing a Save as PDF and folks
> > that print to postscript and using the distiller to make the pdfs.
> >
> > And it also works fine with people using both methods of creating pdfs.
> >
> > It also works & doesn't work on Windows XP and Windows 2000.
> >
> > (I had them try opening all book files when saving as pdf, and
> > uninstalling any earlier versions of distiller -- no change in
> > behavior.)
> >
> > Anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's the distiller, but I can't find any
> > useful information?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > L.
> > ___
> >
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >


-- 
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
___


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Quark versus FrameMaker

[Linda Lecomte]

Hi Everyone,
I have a client who has just been acquired. They want me to rebrand their 
technical documentation (currently in Word) to comply with their new brand. I 
suggested FrameMaker, but they are pushing Quark. I alway thought of Quark as 
more appropriate for designers that do brochures, etc. 

Has anyone used Quark for technical documentation? I would appreciate any 
advice/feedback on using this tool to create technical documentation. I guess 
what I am really looking for is information to sell them on FrameMaker over 
Quark.

I appreciate any help. Thanks!

--
Regards, 
Linda Lecomte
Owner & Chief Writer
relevant space, llc
www.relevantspace.com

Re: Table rules randomly dark in pdfs

[Peter Hirons]

Loretta,

What you are probably seeing is a result of the screen - sometimes the
line triggers one row of pixels and sometimes two, making it look thicker.
 When you increase the magnification all lines trigger two (or more rows)
and look the same.

If you move the image around on the screen do the line thicknesses change?
 If so, that confirms the diagnosis.

-- 

Regards,

Peter

> Hi,
>
> We just changed our tables from just header rules to column and row
> ruling. And now we're making pdfs.
>
> Some people's pdfs have random heavy ruling in the table rules. They are
> absolutely fine in the frame file. And if you increase magnification to
> 200% the rules look like the same weight in the pdf, but up until then
> -- bad random dark ruling.
>
> We're on Frame 7.2, distiller 8, using our own joboptions. We can't
> figure out what's different from machine to machine.
>
> Bad ruling appears for both folks that are doing a Save as PDF and folks
> that print to postscript and using the distiller to make the pdfs.
>
> And it also works fine with people using both methods of creating pdfs.
>
> It also works & doesn't work on Windows XP and Windows 2000.
>
> (I had them try opening all book files when saving as pdf, and
> uninstalling any earlier versions of distiller -- no change in
> behavior.)
>
> Anyone have any ideas? Maybe it's the distiller, but I can't find any
> useful information?
>
> Thanks,
>
> L.
> ___
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