RE: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 17:44 + 2/3/11, Steve Rickaby wrote:

 They have $6 million to play with.

Sorry: that should have read 'They have $6 *billion* to play with.' Duh.

Yes, I was kidding about Apple buying Adobe. And Steve J is right, there's no 
point in ranting about Mac FrameMaker here: that's been done to death 
elsewhere. I do think it was worth making the point about the ungenerous 
upgrade program, though, as allegedly folks from Adobe read this group (aside 
from Dov).

I am very glad that Adobe is developing FrameMaker: for several years after 
Adobe acquired it it looked as if it might be left to die.

-- 
Steve
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Re: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[Don Rinderknecht]

Well, you can still upgrade to Frame 10 from 8 or 9 (not just 9) but 
riddle me this batman


You can upgrade to Tech Comm Suite from Frame 7 for $1299 (saves you 300 
over TCS direct purchase).


I really wish Adobe would come out with a roll your own suite... I've 
got CS5, but Frame 7.1... I'd like to pick my own components that I 
need... for example... Fireworks is perfect for what I need, but I have 
to have Photoshp. (Web Standard CS no longer exists.)


At the risk of going Off Topic I really miss Macromedia's upgrade 
prices. sigh


My 2 cents.

Don.


On 3/2/2011 9:04 AM, Steve Johnson wrote:

IMHO, it's time to close out this discussion because it's become a
series of meaningless rants. Regardless of what you think about the
various versions of Frame over the years, as of the release of Frame
10, the only prior version you can get from Adobe anymore is Frame 9.
Adobe has closed the door on Frame 8, 7, and so on.

You can say whatever you want and most of us will probably agree but
propagating this discussion here isn't going to change anything. If
anybody knows how to directly contact the Frame program manager or
senior management, you should post that so all of us can take a shot
at those people and let them feel some of our frustration.



On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Steve Rickaby
srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk  wrote:

At 10:51 +0200 2/3/11, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:


You really have to wonder whether we should be looking a for a cheaper 
solution. FrameMaker is a good program, but is it really worth the price?

As a 'roundly ripped off Mac user' here, my balanced opinion is that by closing 
off historical upgrade routes - not just for FrameMaker, but for the Creative 
Suite apps too - Adobe has created much more negative marketing than the value 
of the few extra upgrade dollars it creates.

The sooner Apple buys the company, the better.

--
Steve
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File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Stephens, Adrian P]

Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a redline document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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RE: Keep Cross Reference visible?

[Fred Ridder]

Responding to Theresa de Valence, Richard Combs wrote:
 
  Is there a handy way to keep the cross reference window open? Or some
  shortcut keys to open it?
 
 Oops, sent too soon. The shortcut Esc s c works in any FM version. But if 
 this is FM 9 or 10, there are other options. 

On a Windows system, the Alt s c shortcut also works. 
But this only works to *open* the cross-reference dialog rather than to *keep* 
it open. Keeping the dialog open is not possible (at least in the old UI--I 
haven't needed/wanted to migrate to FM9 or FM10 yet so I only can speak to 
versions through FM8), because it is a modal window. When the dialog is open, 
it always has the application's attention and you cannot perform any actions in 
the document window (not even moving the insertion point) so there is no point 
in keeping the dialog open. Has this changed in the new UI? Is it now non-modal?
 
-Fred Ridder
 
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RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Jeff Coatsworth]

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a redline document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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RE: Keep Cross Reference visible?

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Yes, in FM9 and 10 you can leave the pane open all the time - works especially 
well if you've got a large monitor or 2 of them.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:01 AM
To: richard.co...@polycom.com; t...@bstw.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Keep Cross Reference visible?

Responding to Theresa de Valence, Richard Combs wrote:

  Is there a handy way to keep the cross reference window open? Or some
  shortcut keys to open it?

 Oops, sent too soon. The shortcut Esc s c works in any FM version. But if 
 this is FM 9 or 10, there are other options.

On a Windows system, the Alt s c shortcut also works.
But this only works to *open* the cross-reference dialog rather than to *keep* 
it open. Keeping the dialog open is not possible (at least in the old UI--I 
haven't needed/wanted to migrate to FM9 or FM10 yet so I only can speak to 
versions through FM8), because it is a modal window. When the dialog is open, 
it always has the application's attention and you cannot perform any actions in 
the document window (not even moving the insertion point) so there is no point 
in keeping the dialog open. Has this changed in the new UI? Is it now non-modal?

-Fred Ridder


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RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Combs, Richard]

Jeff is right. From what I've read, 2 GB of RAM is barely adequate for 
minimal-load use under Win 7. You should quadruple it -- at least.

Richard

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 6:26 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a redline document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Dov Isaacs]

FrameMaker is a 32-bit application, not a 64-bit application. As such, it 
cannot use any more than a 2GB address space. Using FrameMaker under any 64-bit 
version of Windows with more than 2GB of memory only assists FrameMaker in that 
such additional memory can dramatically reduce system paging operations to and 
from disk. Generally speaking, the 64-bit versions of Windows have a much 
higher memory requirement threshold than the 32-bit minutes of Windows have. 
Under no circumstances would I ever recommend use of Windows 64-bit with 
anything less than a full 4GB of main memory, with 6GB or 8GB much more 
rational choices for that environment.

- Dov

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:26 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a redline document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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Text insets

[Martin Ley]

Hi folks,

I generally shy away from text insets, as they invariably barf on me in the 
target document - I get a spurious paragraph at the end of the imported inset 
which appears to be the same style (but with an asterisk) as the first 
paragraph of the source text.

This is a nightmare generally, and specifically if that initial paragraph is a 
Head1 (for example) - I get a blank entry in my TOC.

Over the years, I have tried various ways to get around this, and thought I had 
discovered nirvana in the form of an old thread:

http://www.freeframers.org/archive/00/msg01966.html

I tried the solution advocated in that thread and it seemed to work. Briefly. I 
gamely began producing a whole raft of insets in one document, in their own 
Flows, so I could import them into various target docs.

This week, my hard drive died, so I'm working from a bootable backup. Now, even 
using the same source FrameMaker files, I seem to be back to the bad old days 
of extraneous empty heading-style paragraphs. Does anyone have a clue as to how 
I can get around this? Or was I just dreaming? :-(

I'm using Frame 9 (latest patches) on an MacBook Pro(OS X 10.6.6) running Win7 
under Parallels Desktop for Mac. Old (dead drive) Mac had 8GB RAM. This one 
only has 3GB (so reconfigured Parallels to cope).

Martin Ley


Martin Ley, Em-Dash Publications
84 High Street, Burwell, CAMBRIDGE, CB25 0HD

T   +44 1638 744173   M  +44 7803 297354
W  em-dash.com E  mar...@em-dash.com
VAT 823339730  Skype   +44 1223 969925






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RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Jeff Coatsworth]

The - it can use it. I was referring to was his Win7 machine, not FM. 
Nobody's ever just running only FM - there's normally always some other apps 
in use - your e-mail program, a browser or two, some screenshot app, etc.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Dov Isaacs
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:10 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Importance: High

FrameMaker is a 32-bit application, not a 64-bit application. As such, it 
cannot use any more than a 2GB address space. Using FrameMaker under any 64-bit 
version of Windows with more than 2GB of memory only assists FrameMaker in that 
such additional memory can dramatically reduce system paging operations to and 
from disk. Generally speaking, the 64-bit versions of Windows have a much 
higher memory requirement threshold than the 32-bit minutes of Windows have. 
Under no circumstances would I ever recommend use of Windows 64-bit with 
anything less than a full 4GB of main memory, with 6GB or 8GB much more 
rational choices for that environment.

- Dov

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:26 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a redline document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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Re: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[Alan T Litchfield]

Think about it. Why s it that you miss Macromedia's upgrades prices? I  
recall they were not onerous and were flexible, and they are no longer  
there.


On 3/03/2011, at 1:06 PM, Don Rinderknecht wrote:
At the risk of going Off Topic I really miss Macromedia's  
upgrade prices. sigh



Alan

--
Alan T Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140
New Zealand
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice

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RE: Text insets

[Combs, Richard]

Martin Ley wrote:
 
 I generally shy away from text insets, as they invariably barf on me in the
 target document - I get a spurious paragraph at the end of the imported
 inset which appears to be the same style (but with an asterisk) as the
 first paragraph of the source text.
 
 This is a nightmare generally, and specifically if that initial paragraph
 is a Head1 (for example) - I get a blank entry in my TOC.
 
 Over the years, I have tried various ways to get around this, and thought I
 had discovered nirvana in the form of an old thread:
 
 http://www.freeframers.org/archive/00/msg01966.html

I looked at the first part of that post, and it contains a bit of 
misinformation and doesn't address the problem you were having at all, so I'm 
not sure how it seemed to work for a time. (Maybe just until you updated the 
text insets?) 

The misinformation: No extra blank paragraph is created (and certainly not 
sometimes as if it were a random event) when you import a text inset. This 
belief stems from a fundamental failure to understand how FM handles text 
insets. The extra blank paragraph is the empty paragraph in which your cursor 
was sitting when you imported the text inset. 

A text inset is something like an anchored frame or table. It sits in the flow 
as a zero-width object at the spot where you inserted it, i.e., the container 
paragraph. You can demonstrate this to yourself by putting the cursor at the 
end of the paragraph before the text inset and then pressing the right arrow 
key repeatedly. You'll see that a single key-press moves the cursor from just 
before the text inset to just after. Type some text after the inset, then 
triple-click somewhere in that text to select the entire paragraph. You'll see 
that the text inset, like the rest of the paragraph that contains it, is 
selected. 

Since the text inset source is a complete flow, it necessarily ends with a 
paragraph end. So the extra space is the result of two paragraph ends in a 
row: the end of the last paragraph in the text inset source and the end of the 
empty container paragraph into which you inserted it. The run-in paragraph 
solution that post outlines is one way to eliminate the extra space. Another 
is to not insert the text into an empty paragraph; instead, insert it at the 
beginning of the text that should immediately follow the text inset. Doing this 
also solves your original problem, discussed below. 

The original problem: A long-standing FM bug causes the paragraph containing a 
text inset to inherit the format of the first paragraph in the text inset 
source _if_ the text inset sits adjacent to the pilcrow (end-of-paragraph 
symbol) of the container paragraph. This is similar/related) to the bug that 
causes a paragraph override if you apply a character tag adjacent to the 
pilcrow. The solution to both is simple: separate the text inset or char tag 
from the pilcrow with a space or something. 

I prefer putting text insets in their own empty paragraphs (instead of at the 
beginning of whatever follows), so I always insert a non-breaking space between 
the end of the text inset and the end of the container paragraph. A regular 
space would work, but I prefer having a visible symbol there as confirmation (I 
always work with View  Text Symbols on and strongly encourage doing). 

I also use a dedicated paragraph format as the container for text insets, with 
size and spacing that works for me (i.e., introduces extra space that I've 
planned for and can live with), so I don't mess with the run-in stuff. But 
that's a matter of personal preference. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





 

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Re: autonumber at end of text is mis-aligned

[Graeme R Forbes]

Leigh:

It's been a while since I used FrameMaker, but iirc, the way I would  
get the effect of an autonumber in the position where I wanted it was  
to let FM put it into one of the official positions, but in tiny  
invisible text, and then use an x-ref to that number to make it  
appear where I wanted it to.


Graeme Forbes




Message: 2
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:11:51 -0600
From: LW White lwwhi...@hotmail.com
To: FrameUsersDigest framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: autonumber at end of text is mis-aligned
Message-ID: blu144-w1571c5bd0e5514a7ce466986...@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


I'm trying to add some text as autonumbering at the end of a  
paragraph. Regardless of the justification setting for the  
paragraph format, the autonumber is right-justified, creating a LOT  
of blank space between the paragraph text and the autonumber. In  
other words, I want


Blah blah blah - Continued

(where -Continued is the autonumber)

but I get

Blah blah  
blah..-  
Continued|


where | is the right margin and the dots represent blank space.  
Happens regardless of whether the autonumber is text, a building  
block, whatever. What's up with this?


Thanks,
Leigh



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Re: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[hessiansx4]

We are looking to upgrade 60-70 seats to FM 10; we were quote a per-seat cost 
of 
925.00 USD. Adobe has a volume licensing program: 
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/volumelicensing/clp/. It'll be interesting to 
see how much this reduces the per-seat cost



- Original Message 
From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk
To: Dov Isaacs isa...@adobe.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com 
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 4:06:25 AM
Subject: RE: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

At 17:44 + 2/3/11, Steve Rickaby wrote:

 They have $6 million to play with.

Sorry: that should have read 'They have $6 *billion* to play with.' Duh.

Yes, I was kidding about Apple buying Adobe. And Steve J is right, there's no 
point in ranting about Mac FrameMaker here: that's been done to death 
elsewhere. 
I do think it was worth making the point about the ungenerous upgrade program, 
though, as allegedly folks from Adobe read this group (aside from Dov).

I am very glad that Adobe is developing FrameMaker: for several years after 
Adobe acquired it it looked as if it might be left to die.

-- 
Steve
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RE: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[Tim J. Slager]

I had lock-up problems with 7.2 on Win 7. I could take care of the lock-ups by 
running it in administrator mode, but then updating books and generating PDFs 
was extremely slow, so I would switch back and forth between modes. I'm 
enjoying 10 now.

I think it's too bad Adobe doesn't allow an upgrade from 7, and FM is pricey. 
But I also don't understand companies balking at buying software that, in the 
scheme of things, is reasonable. How many upgrades would a CEO's bonus buy? 
Which does more for a company's health and productivity?

tims

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fei Min Lorente
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:57 PM
To: Carrie Baker; Alan Houser
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

I'm looking at buying the latest version because our company is moving everyone 
to Windows 7, and FrameMaker 7.2 isn't supported on that OS. It doesn't mean it 
won't work, but our management prefers to play it safe.

Fei Min Lorente

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carrie Baker
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:14 PM
To: Alan Houser
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

I do not know if it is altogether a bad thing to be using Frame 7. I sort of 
just wanted to know that other people are also using Frame of that vintage.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Alan Houser 
a...@groupwellesley.commailto:a...@groupwellesley.com wrote:
If you check the PDF properties of Apple's documentation, you will find that a 
surprising number are authored and published in FrameMaker 7. InDesign CS3 is 
also popular there.

And the TechCrunch blog recently forecast that Apple-based readers will 
outnumber Windows-based readers by the end of 2012.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/27/apple-versus-microsoft-share/

I know the FrameMaker on Mac horse was beaten to death long ago, but perhaps 
it's time for Adobe to consider reviving the horse...

-Alan
---

Alan Houser, President
Group Wellesley, Inc.
412-363-3481
www.groupwellesley.comhttp://www.groupwellesley.com/



On 3/1/2011 8:18 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
At 13:25 +0200 1/3/11, Carrie Baker wrote:
Are others in the same boat?
Is there any point in trying to get an upgrade to version 9, and then at a 
later point upgrading again?
Frame 7 on Mac here, so doubly stuck.



--
Carrie Baker
carrie...@gmail.commailto:carrie...@gmail.com
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RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Outlaw, Cathy]

Adrian,

How do you handle your redlines when Compare Document is completed? 

We have a lot of tables in our documents. If any table formatting is modified 
from the previous version, FM considers it a new table. We have to manually add 
the insertion/deletion conditional text color coding to the tables in the 
comparison file.

What do you do to show changes in tables?

Cathy Outlaw
Technical Communicator

-Original Message-

Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 06:24:53 +
From: Stephens, Adrian P adrian.p.steph...@intel.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Message-ID:
eef4061c40d85e4bb5f834f03eb4d1b26648b...@irsmsx505.ger.corp.intel.com

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

*
*
*
*
I have to prepare a redline document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.
*
*
*
*
Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47


The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or entity to 
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Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of , or taking of any 
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So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 17:44 + 2/3/11, Steve Rickaby wrote:

> They have $6 million to play with.

Sorry: that should have read 'They have $6 *billion* to play with.' Duh.

Yes, I was kidding about Apple buying Adobe. And Steve J is right, there's no 
point in ranting about Mac FrameMaker here: that's been done to death 
elsewhere. I do think it was worth making the point about the ungenerous 
upgrade program, though, as allegedly folks from Adobe read this group (aside 
from Dov).

I am very glad that Adobe is developing FrameMaker: for several years after 
Adobe acquired it it looked as if it might be left to die.

-- 
Steve

File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Stephens, Adrian P]

Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a "redline" document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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Keep Cross Reference visible?

[Fred Ridder]

Responding to Theresa de Valence, Richard Combs wrote:
> 
> > Is there a handy way to keep the cross reference window open? Or some
> > shortcut keys to open it?
> 
> Oops, sent too soon. The shortcut Esc s c works in any FM version. But if 
> this is FM 9 or 10, there are other options. 

On a Windows system, the Alt s c shortcut also works. 
But this only works to *open* the cross-reference dialog rather than to *keep* 
it open. Keeping the dialog open is not possible (at least in the "old" UI--I 
haven't needed/wanted to migrate to FM9 or FM10 yet so I only can speak to 
versions through FM8), because it is a "modal" window. When the dialog is open, 
it always has the application's attention and you cannot perform any actions in 
the document window (not even moving the insertion point) so there is no point 
in keeping the dialog open. Has this changed in the new UI? Is it now non-modal?

-Fred Ridder


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File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Jeff Coatsworth]

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a "redline" document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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Keep Cross Reference visible?

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Yes, in FM9 and 10 you can leave the pane open all the time - works especially 
well if you've got a large monitor or 2 of them.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:01 AM
To: richard.combs at polycom.com; tdev at bstw.com; framers at 
lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Keep Cross Reference visible?

Responding to Theresa de Valence, Richard Combs wrote:
>
> > Is there a handy way to keep the cross reference window open? Or some
> > shortcut keys to open it?
>
> Oops, sent too soon. The shortcut Esc s c works in any FM version. But if 
> this is FM 9 or 10, there are other options.

On a Windows system, the Alt s c shortcut also works.
But this only works to *open* the cross-reference dialog rather than to *keep* 
it open. Keeping the dialog open is not possible (at least in the "old" UI--I 
haven't needed/wanted to migrate to FM9 or FM10 yet so I only can speak to 
versions through FM8), because it is a "modal" window. When the dialog is open, 
it always has the application's attention and you cannot perform any actions in 
the document window (not even moving the insertion point) so there is no point 
in keeping the dialog open. Has this changed in the new UI? Is it now non-modal?

-Fred Ridder


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File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Combs, Richard]

Jeff is right. From what I've read, 2 GB of RAM is barely adequate for 
minimal-load use under Win 7. You should quadruple it -- at least.

Richard

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 6:26 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a "redline" document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

-- next part --
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File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Dov Isaacs]

FrameMaker is a 32-bit application, not a 64-bit application. As such, it 
cannot use any more than a 2GB address space. Using FrameMaker under any 64-bit 
version of Windows with more than 2GB of memory only assists FrameMaker in that 
such additional memory can dramatically reduce system paging operations to and 
from disk. Generally speaking, the 64-bit versions of Windows have a much 
higher memory requirement threshold than the 32-bit minutes of Windows have. 
Under no circumstances would I ever recommend use of Windows 64-bit with 
anything less than a full 4GB of main memory, with 6GB or 8GB much more 
rational choices for that environment.

- Dov

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:26 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a "redline" document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Jeff Coatsworth]

The "- it can use it." I was referring to was his Win7 machine, not FM. 
Nobody's ever just running "only" FM - there's normally always some other apps 
in use - your e-mail program, a browser or two, some screenshot app, etc.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Dov Isaacs
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:10 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Importance: High

FrameMaker is a 32-bit application, not a 64-bit application. As such, it 
cannot use any more than a 2GB address space. Using FrameMaker under any 64-bit 
version of Windows with more than 2GB of memory only assists FrameMaker in that 
such additional memory can dramatically reduce system paging operations to and 
from disk. Generally speaking, the 64-bit versions of Windows have a much 
higher memory requirement threshold than the 32-bit minutes of Windows have. 
Under no circumstances would I ever recommend use of Windows 64-bit with 
anything less than a full 4GB of main memory, with 6GB or 8GB much more 
rational choices for that environment.

- Dov

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:26 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

I'd be chugging too if I only had 2 GB of RAM! You're using Win7 64 bit for 
God's sake! Throw a whack of RAM at it - it can use it.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:25 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Hello all,

I'm technical editor for IEEE 802.11REVmb,  this is a spec for a wireless LAN 
protocol,  and is current 2,600 pages in length.
The standard is a single book file comprising about 40 .fm files.  I'm using 
Frame 9 on Win 7 64 bit.

I have had two problems recently with this:

1.   Slow operation with large files.

2.   Slow compare operation.

The process we go through in IEEE standards is that large chunks of 
contributory material (called amendments)
are prepared and approved elsewhere.  Then I get to roll in the change.   The 
last two amendments were 400
and 200 pages in length,  consisting of a mixture of straight additional 
material and marked up changes.

Two files in particular have grown a lot recently.   One is a 50/50 mix of text 
and tables.   The other is pure text.
They are both about 400 pages in length each.  (The source with text/tables is 
4MB in length,  the other one is 2MB).

Recently operations have slowed down.  Frame has started running out of memory 
(screen not rendering properly,
using a system font instead of proper font) when doing lots of work in the 
mixed file. Cross-reference operations
(the bane of my life) take forever (i.e.,  10s user-interface response to any 
key,   30s pause after adjusting xref).

I have to prepare a "redline" document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.

I have split these files into 4 chunks,  and life has improved a lot.   OK,  
400 pages is a long file (in terms of could
I read it before bedtime),  but 4MB is not much compared with the memory that 
frame occupies (200MB) or the
amount of memory on my machine (2GB).

Have others observed this behaviour?   Am I missing any tricks in dealing with 
big files?



Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

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Text insets

[Combs, Richard]

Martin Ley wrote:

> I generally shy away from text insets, as they invariably barf on me in the
> target document - I get a spurious paragraph at the end of the imported
> inset which appears to be the same style (but with an asterisk) as the
> first paragraph of the source text.
> 
> This is a nightmare generally, and specifically if that initial paragraph
> is a Head1 (for example) - I get a blank entry in my TOC.
> 
> Over the years, I have tried various ways to get around this, and thought I
> had discovered nirvana in the form of an old thread:
> 
> http://www.freeframers.org/archive/00/msg01966.html

I looked at the first part of that post, and it contains a bit of 
misinformation and doesn't address the problem you were having at all, so I'm 
not sure how it seemed to work for a time. (Maybe just until you updated the 
text insets?) 

The misinformation: No "extra blank paragraph" is created (and certainly not 
"sometimes" as if it were a random event) when you import a text inset. This 
belief stems from a fundamental failure to understand how FM handles text 
insets. The "extra blank paragraph" is the empty paragraph in which your cursor 
was sitting when you imported the text inset. 

A text inset is something like an anchored frame or table. It sits in the flow 
as a zero-width object at the spot where you inserted it, i.e., the "container" 
paragraph. You can demonstrate this to yourself by putting the cursor at the 
end of the paragraph before the text inset and then pressing the right arrow 
key repeatedly. You'll see that a single key-press moves the cursor from just 
before the text inset to just after. Type some text after the inset, then 
triple-click somewhere in that text to select the entire paragraph. You'll see 
that the text inset, like the rest of the paragraph that contains it, is 
selected. 

Since the text inset source is a complete flow, it necessarily ends with a 
paragraph end. So the "extra" space is the result of two paragraph ends in a 
row: the end of the last paragraph in the text inset source and the end of the 
empty container paragraph into which you inserted it. The run-in paragraph 
solution that post outlines is one way to eliminate the "extra" space. Another 
is to not insert the text into an empty paragraph; instead, insert it at the 
beginning of the text that should immediately follow the text inset. Doing this 
also solves your original problem, discussed below. 

The original problem: A long-standing FM bug causes the paragraph containing a 
text inset to inherit the format of the first paragraph in the text inset 
source _if_ the text inset sits adjacent to the pilcrow (end-of-paragraph 
symbol) of the container paragraph. This is similar/related) to the bug that 
causes a paragraph override if you apply a character tag adjacent to the 
pilcrow. The solution to both is simple: separate the text inset or char tag 
from the pilcrow with a space or something. 

I prefer putting text insets in their own empty paragraphs (instead of at the 
beginning of whatever follows), so I always insert a non-breaking space between 
the end of the text inset and the end of the container paragraph. A regular 
space would work, but I prefer having a visible symbol there as confirmation (I 
always work with View > Text Symbols on and strongly encourage doing). 

I also use a dedicated paragraph format as the container for text insets, with 
size and spacing that works for me (i.e., introduces "extra" space that I've 
planned for and can live with), so I don't mess with the run-in stuff. But 
that's a matter of personal preference. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

autonumber at end of text is mis-aligned

[Graeme R Forbes]

Leigh:

It's been a while since I used FrameMaker, but iirc, the way I would  
get the effect of an autonumber in the position where I wanted it was  
to let FM put it into one of the official positions, but in tiny  
invisible text, and then use an x-ref to that number to make it  
appear where I wanted it to.

Graeme Forbes


>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:11:51 -0600
> From: LW White 
> To: FrameUsersDigest 
> Subject: autonumber at end of text is mis-aligned
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I'm trying to add some text as autonumbering at the end of a  
> paragraph. Regardless of the justification setting for the  
> paragraph format, the autonumber is right-justified, creating a LOT  
> of blank space between the paragraph text and the autonumber. In  
> other words, I want
>
> Blah blah blah - Continued
>
> (where "-Continued" is the autonumber)
>
> but I get
>
> Blah blah  
> blah..-  
> Continued|
>
> where | is the right margin and the dots represent blank space.  
> Happens regardless of whether the autonumber is text, a building  
> block, whatever. What's up with this?
>
> Thanks,
> Leigh
>

So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[hessiansx4]

We are looking to upgrade 60-70 seats to FM 10; we were quote a per-seat cost 
of 
925.00 USD. Adobe has a volume licensing program: 
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/volumelicensing/clp/. It'll be interesting to 
see how much this reduces the per-seat cost



- Original Message 
From: Steve Rickaby 
To: Dov Isaacs ; "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 

Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 4:06:25 AM
Subject: RE: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

At 17:44 + 2/3/11, Steve Rickaby wrote:

> They have $6 million to play with.

Sorry: that should have read 'They have $6 *billion* to play with.' Duh.

Yes, I was kidding about Apple buying Adobe. And Steve J is right, there's no 
point in ranting about Mac FrameMaker here: that's been done to death 
elsewhere. 
I do think it was worth making the point about the ungenerous upgrade program, 
though, as allegedly folks from Adobe read this group (aside from Dov).

I am very glad that Adobe is developing FrameMaker: for several years after 
Adobe acquired it it looked as if it might be left to die.

-- 
Steve
___


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So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

[Tim J. Slager]

I had lock-up problems with 7.2 on Win 7. I could take care of the lock-ups by 
running it in administrator mode, but then updating books and generating PDFs 
was extremely slow, so I would switch back and forth between modes. I'm 
enjoying 10 now.

I think it's too bad Adobe doesn't allow an upgrade from 7, and FM is pricey. 
But I also don't understand companies balking at buying software that, in the 
scheme of things, is reasonable. How many upgrades would a CEO's bonus buy? 
Which does more for a company's health and productivity?

tims

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fei Min Lorente
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:57 PM
To: Carrie Baker; Alan Houser
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

I'm looking at buying the latest version because our company is moving everyone 
to Windows 7, and FrameMaker 7.2 isn't supported on that OS. It doesn't mean it 
won't work, but our management prefers to play it safe.

Fei Min Lorente

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carrie Baker
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:14 PM
To: Alan Houser
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: So how many of us are stuck with Frame 7.2?

I do not know if it is altogether a bad thing to be using Frame 7. I sort of 
just wanted to know that other people are also using Frame of that vintage.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Alan Houser mailto:arh at groupwellesley.com>> wrote:
If you check the PDF properties of Apple's documentation, you will find that a 
surprising number are authored and published in FrameMaker 7. InDesign CS3 is 
also popular there.

And the TechCrunch blog recently forecast that Apple-based readers will 
outnumber Windows-based readers by the end of 2012.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/27/apple-versus-microsoft-share/

I know the "FrameMaker on Mac" horse was beaten to death long ago, but perhaps 
it's time for Adobe to consider reviving the horse...

-Alan
---

Alan Houser, President
Group Wellesley, Inc.
412-363-3481
www.groupwellesley.com<http://www.groupwellesley.com/>



On 3/1/2011 8:18 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
At 13:25 +0200 1/3/11, Carrie Baker wrote:
Are others in the same boat?
Is there any point in trying to get an upgrade to version 9, and then at a 
later point upgrading again?
Frame 7 on Mac here, so doubly stuck.



--
Carrie Baker
carriebak at gmail.com<mailto:carriebak at gmail.com>
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File sizes, frame 9, comparison times

[Outlaw, Cathy]

Adrian,

How do you handle your redlines when Compare Document is completed? 

We have a lot of tables in our documents. If any table formatting is modified 
from the previous version, FM considers it a new table. We have to manually add 
the insertion/deletion conditional text color coding to the tables in the 
comparison file.

What do you do to show changes in tables?

Cathy Outlaw
Technical Communicator

-Original Message-

Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 06:24:53 +
From: "Stephens, Adrian P" 
To: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: File sizes, frame 9, comparison times
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

*
*
*
*
I have to prepare a "redline" document,  which I do by a book compare with a 
previous release.With these files
of this length,  and a substantial number of operations,  this appears to be 
slowing down.   I killed one compare on
the purely text file after 4 hours of CPU time on a fast desktop machine.
*
*
*
*
Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

Tel: +44 1954 204 609 (office)
Tel: +44 792 008 4900 (mobile)
Skype: adrian_stephens

--
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47


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