Re: mapping table mystery--or is it misery?

[Karen Robbins]

Thank you, Urszula, I hadn't thought to check there. The other editor 
who works on these files frequently leaves an empty paragraph tag at 
end of flow.


Since these files are fairly stable and undergo only minor edits each 
time through, content should not be coming from Word directly; but 
there's no telling what happens to source/working files before they 
find their way into the master. :-)


Thanks,
Karen


At 12:00 PM -0500 9/18/13, Urszula Witherell wrote:




Does your file have text imported from Word or RTF? Depending on your import
options setup, Word styles come in as tags and they may be hiding in empty
paragraphs (spaces between paragraphs with FM tags) or as the very last tag
where end of the flow mark appears.

Do you use HTML Setup Utility? If so this is what updates your HTML Mapping
Table and automatically adds the new tags


On September 17, 2013 at 1:39 PM Karen Robbins  wrote:


  Hi framers,

  How can a paragraph tag that doesn't exist get into the book HTML mapping
 table?

  After revising an existing book and preparing for HTML output, I 
was checking

 the book HTML mapping table when I noticed an entry for a paragraph tag that
 is completely alien to anything used by our publication now or ever. That tag
 wasn't in last year's mapping table. I searched the current book for that
 format, and it was not found.
  While other obsolete/ghost paragraph tags repeatedly make their way into the
 mapping table, I'm not so concerned with those as with this one that is new
 and radically different. Where could it have come from, and how can I stop
 rogue formats from creeping into my documents through this path?
  Thanks,
  Karen

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mapping table mystery--or is it misery?

[Karen Robbins]

Thank you, Urszula, I hadn't thought to check there. The other editor 
who works on these files frequently leaves an empty paragraph tag at 
end of flow.

Since these files are fairly stable and undergo only minor edits each 
time through, content should not be coming from Word directly; but 
there's no telling what happens to source/working files before they 
find their way into the master. :-)

Thanks,
Karen

>At 12:00 PM -0500 9/18/13, Urszula Witherell wrote:


>Does your file have text imported from Word or RTF? Depending on your import
>options setup, Word styles come in as tags and they may be hiding in empty
>paragraphs (spaces between paragraphs with FM tags) or as the very last tag
>where end of the flow mark appears.
>
>Do you use HTML Setup Utility? If so this is what updates your HTML Mapping
>Table and automatically adds the new tags

On September 17, 2013 at 1:39 PM Karen Robbins  wrote:

>   Hi framers,
>
>   How can a paragraph tag that doesn't exist get into the book HTML mapping
>  table?
>
>   After revising an existing book and preparing for HTML output, I 
>was checking
>  the book HTML mapping table when I noticed an entry for a paragraph tag that
>  is completely alien to anything used by our publication now or ever. That tag
>  wasn't in last year's mapping table. I searched the current book for that
>  format, and it was not found.
>   While other obsolete/ghost paragraph tags repeatedly make their way into the
>  mapping table, I'm not so concerned with those as with this one that is new
>  and radically different. Where could it have come from, and how can I stop
>  rogue formats from creeping into my documents through this path?
>   Thanks,
>   Karen

RE: mapping table mystery--or is it misery?

[Craig Ede]

Regarding tables: You can do it within FrameMaker with Paste Special to UTF
Text and get good results. Tables have to be reconstructed with the convert
to table function within FM, but weirdnesses are filtered out. The table is
pasted as tabbed text.

 

Anything else, including opening the file directly in FrameMaker seems to
add padding to cells in tables. As Chris says, you can't get rid of it. MS
doing some mischief no doubt to ensure incompatibility.

 

Craig

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Chris Despopoulos
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 12:51 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: mapping table mystery--or is it misery?

 

>>I think I recall copy and paste from Word doing that. If you reformat
>>then the tag will no longer exist in the catalog.

Actually, copy/paste from Word can cause even more mischief. I never paste
directly from Word into Maker -- I always paste into a text editor to clean
the stuff out, and then copy/paste that into my document.  Why???

When you paste, Maker does the right thing and converts Word pgf styles into
Maker formats.  But if you paste into a table, or if you paste a table, then
the newly created format might end up in your table catalog.  Part of a
table format in the table catalog is the default pgf format for a table
cell.  But there's no way to get rid of that pgf format once it's there
(except by editing MIF).  As a result, the pgf format might include a font
or language you don't have on your system.  Then, whenever you open the
document, you will get messages about unsupported fonts!  Yet you can never
search through the document to find them and eradicate them.  I suppose this
could lead to a crash if you save as PDF and the font is one that gives
Acrobat serious problems (maybe, but not tested as far as I know).  

So the moral of the story is, really try to avoid copy/paste from Word into
Maker.

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RE: Inserting inline graphics

[Alastair Dent]

I'm sorry you feel that way, Fred.

I did try your solution and couldn't get it to work straight off. It seems for 
some reason that the timing of the entry of esc m p is absolutely crucial.

Winfried was the first to suggest using object styles, maybe because they only 
came in with Frame 11.

When I have received off-list responses, I've often responded to the list, not 
directly to the sender. Not all of my responses to the list are coming up on 
the list, and some are taking as long as 3 days to appear.

From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 18 September 2013 03:42
To: Alastair Dent; Reng, Dr. Winfried; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Inserting inline graphics

For the record, I recommended this exact solution in a direct (off-list) reply 
to Alastair last Monday, within hours of his original query appearing on the 
list. I use it all the time and would go crazy without it.

It appears that perhaps Alastair (or his employer) has his email account set up 
to block messages from unknown individuals and only accepts messages that are 
posted to the list. At least one other poster has noted he sent several private 
replies to you that had gone unacknowledged even though they proposed workable 
solutions.

If you're posting a query, it probably would be a very good idea for you to 
mention any restriction to how list members should reply (e.g. direct replies 
only because you're on digest, or on-list replies only due to email filtering) 
so that the rest of us don't waste too much time and energy.

Cranky in New Jersey...
-Fred Ridder
> From: alastair.d...@imgtec.com
> To: wr...@tycoint.com; 
> framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: Inserting inline graphics
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 08:54:51 +
>
> Winfried, I could kiss you.
>
> That works - although I have to be careful with the timing of the ESC m p; 
> too fast and it doesn't work, too slow and it just types 'mp' at the 
> insertion point.
>
> Do we have gold star awards for framers?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 
> framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
>  [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
> Sent: 17 September 2013 08:51
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: Inserting inline graphics
>
> Hi Alastair,
>
> I also think that icons are far better than just the tooltip text.
> Of course this depends always on your audience ...
>
> Why don't you do it this way?
> Copy the new icon.
> Place the cursor where you want it to have.
> Paste the graphic there (CTRL + V).
> Press ESC m p (which will shrinkwrap the anchored frame to the size of your 
> icon; additonally the anchoring position is set to At Insertion Point). Press 
> these keys one after the other.
>
> If the icon should be moved up or down, then you have to select the anchored 
> frame and change the Distance above Baseline.
> Create an object style with the correct distance and save it.
> Then you can apply this setting with a mouse click.
>
> Or do you have other settings of your anchored frame?
> After all these e-mails I do not know your actual settings.
>
> Best regards
>
> Winfried
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 
> > framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
> >  [mailto:framers-
> > boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Alastair Dent
> > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:54 AM
> > To: Robert Lauriston
> > Cc: David Creamer; 
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Subject: RE: Inserting inline graphics
> >
> > I'm using something like your suggested workflow.
> >
> > The downside of it is that pasting into the pre-formatted frame
> > doesn't work well. Even if the scratch icon bitmap is selected, pasting 
> > doesn't replace it.
> > Selecting the frame and pasting results in the bitmap appearing in the
> > centre of the page. It has to be manually dragged from there to the frame.
> >
> > Just documenting the tooltip text is a huge failure in usability for
> > the end user.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com 
> > [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com]
> > On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
> > Sent: 15 September 2013 18:30
> > To: Alastair Dent
> > Cc: David Creamer; 
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Subject: Re: Inserting inline graphics
> >
> > Extracting the icons from the plug-in source should not be difficult,
> > they're usually all in one directory.
> >
> > Assuming the icons are all the same size, in a separate .fm file
> > create one frame with one scratch icon bitmap with all the settings as you 
> > want them.
> > Copy and paste that into your main document, copy your new icon
> > 

mapping table mystery--or is it misery?

[Craig Ede]

Regarding tables: You can do it within FrameMaker with Paste Special to UTF
Text and get good results. Tables have to be reconstructed with the convert
to table function within FM, but weirdnesses are filtered out. The table is
pasted as tabbed text.



Anything else, including opening the file directly in FrameMaker seems to
add padding to cells in tables. As Chris says, you can't get rid of it. MS
doing some mischief no doubt to ensure incompatibility.



Craig



From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Chris Despopoulos
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 12:51 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: mapping table mystery--or is it misery?



>>I think I recall copy and paste from Word doing that. If you reformat
>>then the tag will no longer exist in the catalog.

Actually, copy/paste from Word can cause even more mischief. I never paste
directly from Word into Maker -- I always paste into a text editor to clean
the stuff out, and then copy/paste that into my document.  Why???

When you paste, Maker does the right thing and converts Word pgf styles into
Maker formats.  But if you paste into a table, or if you paste a table, then
the newly created format might end up in your table catalog.  Part of a
table format in the table catalog is the default pgf format for a table
cell.  But there's no way to get rid of that pgf format once it's there
(except by editing MIF).  As a result, the pgf format might include a font
or language you don't have on your system.  Then, whenever you open the
document, you will get messages about unsupported fonts!  Yet you can never
search through the document to find them and eradicate them.  I suppose this
could lead to a crash if you save as PDF and the font is one that gives
Acrobat serious problems (maybe, but not tested as far as I know).  

So the moral of the story is, really try to avoid copy/paste from Word into
Maker.

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Word and Frame comparisons

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Here's a nice solution for that:
http://www.elharo.com/blog/word/2005/12/28/word-tip-1-reapplying-styles/



On 17-Sep-13 6:04 PM, Theresa de Valence wrote:
> Hi, this is possibly not the right place to ask this question, but ... 
> I have a lot of experience with Frame and very little experience with 
> MS Word.
>
> In Frame I can overwrite all paragraph format overrides with a click.
>
> Can this be done in Word?
>
> Thanks,
> Theresa
> ___
>
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> .
>

Re: mapping table mystery--or is it misery?

[Chris Despopoulos]

>>I think I recall copy and paste from Word doing that. If you reformat
>>then the tag will no longer exist in the catalog.

Actually, copy/paste from Word can cause even more mischief. I never paste 
directly from Word into Maker -- I always paste into a text editor to clean the 
stuff out, and then copy/paste that into my document.  Why???

When you paste, Maker does the right thing and converts Word pgf styles into 
Maker formats.  But if you paste into a table, or if you paste a table, then 
the newly created format might end up in your table catalog.  Part of a table 
format in the table catalog is the default pgf format for a table cell.  But 
there's no way to get rid of that pgf format once it's there (except by editing 
MIF).  As a result, the pgf format might include a font or language you don't 
have on your system.  Then, whenever you open the document, you will get 
messages about unsupported fonts!  Yet you can never search through the 
document to find them and eradicate them.  I suppose this could lead to a crash 
if you save as PDF and the font is one that gives Acrobat serious problems 
(maybe, but not tested as far as I know).  

So the moral of the story is, really try to avoid copy/paste from Word into 
Maker.
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mapping table mystery--or is it misery?

[Chris Despopoulos]

>>I think I recall copy and paste from Word doing that. If you reformat
>>then the tag will no longer exist in the catalog.

Actually, copy/paste from Word can cause even more mischief. I never paste 
directly from Word into Maker -- I always paste into a text editor to clean the 
stuff out, and then copy/paste that into my document.? Why???

When you paste, Maker does the right thing and converts Word pgf styles into 
Maker formats.? But if you paste into a table, or if you paste a table, then 
the newly created format might end up in your table catalog.? Part of a table 
format in the table catalog is the default pgf format for a table cell.? But 
there's no way to get rid of that pgf format once it's there (except by editing 
MIF).? As a result, the pgf format might include a font or language you don't 
have on your system.? Then, whenever you open the document, you will get 
messages about unsupported fonts!? Yet you can never search through the 
document to find them and eradicate them.? I suppose this could lead to a crash 
if you save as PDF and the font is one that gives Acrobat serious problems 
(maybe, but not tested as far as I know).? 

So the moral of the story is, really try to avoid copy/paste from Word into 
Maker.
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Inserting Inline Graphics - and AutoText

[Dave Reynolds]

I would agree with Michael. We've used AutoText for years to insert 
anchored frames containing icons/small graphics - both in-line and in 
the margins. It has saved us a lot of time. It seems like the perfect 
solution for Alastair (the original poster).

I have mentioned AutoText to Alastairin a couple of personal emails, but 
I never got a response. Maybe my emails got lost, or filtered out as spam?

Cheers

Dave


O'Laoghaire Micheal wrote, on 18/09/2013 6:13 a.m.:
> We're  long-time users of the AutoText plugin and it has saved us countless 
> hours and much aggravation.
>
> Micheal O'Laoghaire
> Comverse Inc
> Wakefield, MA
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
> lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of steve at siliconprairiesoftware.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:07 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Inserting inline graphics
>
> I'm late to this discussion too. It's this sort of thing that caused me to
> create the Auto-Text plug-in. At the time, the template I was using had
> anchored frames for hints, warnings, database tasks, multicurrency tasks,
> as well as various in-line anchored frames for special characters like the
> "pretzel" key for the Macintosh. It drove all of the writers crazy having
> to manually add these each time.
>
> That's where Auto-Text comes in. You can define the content exactly as you
> want it to appear in your document. Then you copy it into the AutoText.fm
> document to define the AutoText entry. Give it a name, and a keyboard
> shortcut (optional). Then, when you want to use the item, just place the
> insertion point in your document, and choose the item from the AutoText
> menu (or use the keyboard shortcut). Auto-Text will copy the item from the
> AutoText.fm document, and paste it into your current document.
>
> You have a lot of flexibility when defining the AutoText items. You can
> use anchored frames with referenced graphics, using relative paths. When
> you insert the Auto-Text entry, the relative paths are preserved. If you
> need to change a graphic, you can just swap it out like you would any
> other reference Frame graphic. You can even create AutoText entries that
> reference content on a Reference page.
>
> A single-user license is only $10. You can download the plug-in at the
> Silicon Prairie web site (http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com). It's
> fully-functional, but will periodically display registration reminders.
> You can try it out at no cost to see if it would help you with your issue.
>
> Steve
>
> ___
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-- 
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Senior Technical Author
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Email: dave.reynolds at taitradio.com 


Tait Communications - Devoted to your cause
www.taitradio.com 

Inserting inline graphics

[Alastair Dent]

gt; > Cc: David Creamer; framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at 
> > lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: Re: Inserting inline graphics
> >
> > Extracting the icons from the plug-in source should not be difficult,
> > they're usually all in one directory.
> >
> > Assuming the icons are all the same size, in a separate .fm file
> > create one frame with one scratch icon bitmap with all the settings as you 
> > want them.
> > Copy and paste that into your main document, copy your new icon
> > bitmap, select the scratch icon bitmap, and paste.
> >
> > I think that's the fastest workflow you'll get unless maybe you wrote
> > a FrameScript macro.
> >
> > To me it seems like a huge waste of time. I'd just document the tooltip 
> > text.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:40 AM, Alastair Dent
> > mailto:alastair.dent at imgtec.com>>
> > wrote:
> > > I'm documenting a complex plugin for Eclipse. I will only know which
> > buttons I need in the text as I'm writing. To pull out the button
> > icons from the entire product and convert them would be a huge job.
>
> 
>
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Re: Word and Frame comparisons

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Here's a nice solution for that:
http://www.elharo.com/blog/word/2005/12/28/word-tip-1-reapplying-styles/



On 17-Sep-13 6:04 PM, Theresa de Valence wrote:
Hi, this is possibly not the right place to ask this question, but ... 
I have a lot of experience with Frame and very little experience with 
MS Word.


In Frame I can overwrite all paragraph format overrides with a click.

Can this be done in Word?

Thanks,
Theresa
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