RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files?
Largely correct. Interleaf TPS predated FrameMaker by about 5 years. Until about 1990, both it and FrameMaker only ran on workstations and minicomputers (SUN SPARCstations, DEC PDPs, etc.) so the Interleaf licensing model was actually pretty familiar to (if not popular with) customers. Interleaf was also a structured authoring tool years before structured information (e.g., SGML) became an accepted concept, so I'd have to say that it was the real pioneer. But the combination of unpopular licensing and unfamiliar document model definitely gave FrameMaker a leg up when they got started. Another competitor started the same year as Frame, namely Ventura Publisher, who had the weight of Xerox behind them (this may or may not have been a good thing). Publisher had the advantage of being able to directly accept content created in a variety of other applications, such as MS Word, Wordstar, and WordPerfect, but had the disadvantage of not being a useable self-contained document authoring environment like FrameMaker. And there was also LaTeX for the hard core who didn't believe in WYSIWYG (or WYSIAWYG). When the Windows version of FrameMaker came along in 1991, and FrameBuilder (the SGML version) in 1992, there were a whole new set of competitors, including startup Arbortext in the SGML arena. -Fred > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 19:22:42 +0100 > To: docu...@hotmail.com; craig...@hotmail.com; shmue...@gmail.com; > framers@lists.frameusers.com > From: srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk > Subject: RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files? > > At 10:11 -0400 6/10/14, Fred Ridder wrote: > > >Sorry, Craig, but there's nothing to suggest that MIF has any basis in SGML, > >either. > > Just goes to show how pioneering the original product was. Afair, its only > competitor was Interleaf, which required one 'administrator' per six or so > seats. > > -- > Steve [reliving bitter memories from 1993-4] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files?
Since this discussion has morphed a bit .. I'll add a bit more to the MIF/XML thread. When XML came around I always thought how nice it would be to be able to convert between MIF and XML. Since MIF does have some similarities with XML, it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. So in 2003 I created the beginning of what has become MIFML (the XML representation of a MIF file). http://leximation.com/tools/mifml/ I developed a DTD that maps all MIF 7 statements to comparable XML structures (including embedded graphics to some degree), then created a command line utility to perform the conversion from MIF to MIFML and back. This utility and the DTD are freely available from the URL above. I haven't touched this code in years, so it's stuck at MIF7 level, although that should still work reasonably well. Cheers, ...scott On 10/6/14 11:22 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 10:11 -0400 6/10/14, Fred Ridder wrote: Sorry, Craig, but there's nothing to suggest that MIF has any basis in SGML, either. Just goes to show how pioneering the original product was. Afair, its only competitor was Interleaf, which required one 'administrator' per six or so seats. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files?
At 10:11 -0400 6/10/14, Fred Ridder wrote: >Sorry, Craig, but there's nothing to suggest that MIF has any basis in SGML, >either. Just goes to show how pioneering the original product was. Afair, its only competitor was Interleaf, which required one 'administrator' per six or so seats. -- Steve [reliving bitter memories from 1993-4] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files?
I did a lot if this in the early days as well. Things changed for me in 1998 when FrameScript was released. After that I was able to manipulate FrameMaker documents and automate workflows without having to use MIF. But MIF is powerful because it represents every aspect of a FrameMaker document in a text format. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-366-4017 r...@frameexpert.com From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Seal Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 10:37 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files? I have to say that I do not remember seeing in this discussion that in the context of FrameMaker MIF stands for Maker Interchange Format (i.e. Maker, not Model). When I used FrameMaker (last time was with 7.2) I used MIF to clean FM files, and also for FUN! For example, by editing MIF files (which are/were pure ascii text) in MSWord (Yes I did), I could cause formatting changes that could not be done through the FM menus (and were likely not supported). Chris You are currently subscribed to framers as cs...@sympatico.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/cseal%40sympatico.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files?
I have to say that I do not remember seeing in this discussion that in the context of FrameMaker MIF stands for Maker Interchange Format (i.e. Maker, not Model). When I used FrameMaker (last time was with 7.2) I used MIF to clean FM files, and also for FUN! For example, by editing MIF files (which are/were pure ascii text) in MSWord (Yes I did), I could cause formatting changes that could not be done through the FM menus (and were likely not supported). Chris You are currently subscribed to framers as cs...@sympatico.ca. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/cseal%40sympatico.ca Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files?
Sorry, Craig, but there's nothing to suggest that MIF has any basis in SGML, either. MIF existed in FrameMaker from version 1.0 in 1986, which was the same year that SGML formally came into existence. Frame Technologies did not offer a product that supported SGML until they released FrameBuilder in 1992 in the FrameMaker 3.0 era. There is a fundamental difference in philosophy and purpose between MIF and SGML. The whole idea behind SGML was to define a way in which information could the marked up to self-identify the *semantic* purpose of the information independently of the presentational aspects (formatting) of a particular document. As tools for SGML were developed, the philosophy was that the presentation should be driven by the semantic purpose of each information element in its current context. MIF, on the other hand, is focused almost entirely on the *presentational* aspects of the information that is contained in a document. This is entirely appropriate because the language is used within the environment of a document processing software application. There is also a fundamental difference in the way the markup is structured. In SGML (and XML and HTML) only the tag names and attributes are contained within pairs of angle brackets. The content is contained between pairs of bracket-delimited tags (although the end tag may be assumed in some cases in HTML and SGML). Parsing out everything that is contained in brackets yields the raw, untagged text. In MIF, *everything* is contained within the angle brackets as tuples. The only thing that exists outside angle brackets are commentary strings that identify MIF structures. The document content is actually contained in delimited strings within a element that is wrapped up in a bunch of nested formatting elements. For example, the following MIF snippet represents a single cell of a table that contains a single text character (I for "input") in a String element that is nested 4 levels deep inside a Cell element, which is, in turn, nested inside Row, TblBody, and Tbl elements: # end of Notes > # end of ParaLine > # end of Para > # end of CellContent > # end of Cell If a text editor were to provide really useful on-screen highlighting, it would have the ability to highlight all the lines that are within a matching pair of brackets, such as the 11 lines that constitute the CellContent element or the 13 lines of the Cell element in the example. Just highlighting the element or property name that follows the left angle bracket may look nice, but really isn't particularly helpful IMO. It's really unfortunate that people jump to the conclusion that any markup language that uses angle brackets must be based on XML or HTML or SGML. There are only a small number of characters on a standard keyboard that are suitable for use as delimiters in a markup language and many different markup languages *independently* chose angle brackets as the best option. In reality, we should all be thankful that the authors of these markup languages chose something relatively user-friendly like angle brackets rather than retaining the ancestral form of markup use in IBM's Generalized Markup Language (GML) which looked something like this: :h1.Chapter 1: Introduction :p.GML supported hierarchical containers, such as :ol :li.Ordered lists (like this one), :li.Unordered lists, and :li.Definition lists :eol. as well as simple structures. :p.Markup minimization (later generalized and formalized in SGML), allowed the end-tags to be omitted for the "h1" and "p" elements.Notice that only the ordered list structure (:ol) has an explicit end delimiter (:eol), whichc makes it really hard for a human reader to figure out wheretheheck you are. > From: craig...@hotmail.com > To: docu...@hotmail.com; shmue...@gmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files? > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 07:32:26 -0500 > > > > Perhaps > a project should be started to work on defining a MIF highlighter for > NotePad++, since one can create a User Defined highlighter. > > > > > > Also, since FM SGML was around earlier than FMs XML capabilities, would > it be accurate to say that MIF is an SGML based tagging implementation? > (I expect even FMs SGML implementation came later but broader SGML > definitions were certainly in use earlier). Sometimes asking a silly question > can be productive. Perhaps starting from an SGML highlighting > basis might then be useful. > > > > > > Also, partial highlighting is better than no highlighting, at times. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Craig > > > From: docu...@hotmail.com > To: shmue...@gmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files? > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 12:25:40 -0400 > > > > >
RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files?
Perhaps a project should be started to work on defining a MIF highlighter for NotePad++, since one can create a User Defined highlighter. Also, since FM SGML was around earlier than FMs XML capabilities, would it be accurate to say that MIF is an SGML based tagging implementation? (I expect even FMs SGML implementation came later but broader SGML definitions were certainly in use earlier). Sometimes asking a silly question can be productive. Perhaps starting from an SGML highlighting basis might then be useful. Also, partial highlighting is better than no highlighting, at times. Thank you. Craig From: docu...@hotmail.com To: shmue...@gmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files? Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 12:25:40 -0400 The article you cite is about the *Model* Interchange Format that relates to HL7, which Wikipedia tells me is a "set of international standards for transfer of clinical and administrative data between Hospital information systems". It has nothing whatsoever to do with the *Maker* Interchange Format that is used in FrameMaker other than the same acronym. MIF ≠ MIF in this case. And as I said, the highlighting you see may be useful, but it is an accidental artifact of MIF's use of angle brackets as delimiters. -Fred Ridder Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:50:57 +0300 From: shmue...@gmail.com To: docu...@hotmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files? When I said that MIF was based on XML, I was taking that from this page: http://www.ringholm.com/docs/03060_en_HL7_MIF.htm "The Model Interchange Format (MIF) is a set of XML formats used to support the storage and exchange of HL7 version 3 artefacts as part of the HL7 Development Framework." I'm really not an expert on MIF or XML, but the syntax highlighting in SciTE when I selected XML was much better than no highlighting at all. -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 05-Oct-14 5:06 PM, Fred Ridder wrote: Sorry, Shmuel, but this is incorrect on a couple of levels. First of all, it's simply impossible for MIF to have been *based on* XML. MIF has existed since the very beginning of FrameMaker in 1986. XML, on the other hand, was initially defined (XML 1.0 first edition) in 1998, 12 years after MIF was first included in a released product.? Second, the syntax may look similar, but the similarity extends no deeper than the use of angle brackets as delimiters. In MIF, both the property/parameter name and its value or values (which may themselves be bracket-delimited properties) are contained inside the brackets. The end of each element is marked by a simple right angle-bracket. This is not a problem in simple, single-value elements that begin and end on the same line; but to accommodate multi-line elements have multiple properties nested within it, it is necessary to include a commentary string that identifies what element is closed by the immediately preceding bracket since all brackets have identical appearance. In XML, on the other hand, the angle brackets only contain the name of the element type. The content (e.g., the value of the property or parameter) is *outside* the angle brackets, delimited by a bracketed start tag (e.g., ) and a corresponding explicitly named end tag (e.g., ) . When your text editor highlights it as XML, it would highlight the opening angle bracket and parameter name string as if they were XML start tags. But the parameter values would not be highlighted because they appear in a location where XML does not allow text. Depending on your editor, numerical parameter values might be highlighted just because they are numerical. This degree of highlighting might be useful, but it is essentially accidental rather than by design. -Fred Ridder > From: shmue...@gmail.com > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: What free Windows text editor should I use to look at MIF files? > > MIF is based on XML, so select XML highlighting in the text editor. I > just tried it in SciTE and it looks good after selecting XML. It may > also work in NotePad++ but I didn't try it. > > -- > Shmuel Wolfson > Technical Writer > 052-763-7133 ___ You a