Re: [Framers] read/write rules

[dave]

Scott

Framemaker Update 3 really appears to be my problem. I don't get the error
with Update 2 but I get it with Update 3. I uninstalled and reinstalled each
twice to make sure.

Thanks for the help.

David L. Hottman
Compliance Automation, Inc
C: 720-984-4325  T: 303-481-8467 

-Original Message-
From: d...@reqexperts.com  
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:01 PM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'

Subject: RE: [Framers] read/write rules

Scott

Thank you for those ideas. I will try them. I was just in the process of
uninstalling and reinstalling everything so great timing.

I have only ever found one download of the FDK 16 (and it wasn't the Adobe
Developer page which only has the FDK 15). It was on the link you provided.
I have no idea what version it is.

And also thanks for the heads up on the FDK specific group. I will figure
out how to subscribe to the list.

Again thanks..

David L. Hottman
Compliance Automation, Inc
C: 720-984-4325  T: 303-481-8467 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Scott Prentice
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:58 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] read/write rules

Hi Dave...

When initially building an import/export client for FM16 I had to use VS
2019, but as of 16.0.3 that no longer works. With Update #3, Adobe released
a new FDK, but that doesn't work for me either. If you're using 16.0.3, you
might try rolling back to 16.0.2 to see if your client works there (but
don't use the new FDK with 16.0.2).

You can download Update #2 and the latest FDK (for 16.0.3 only, I assume),
from here ..

https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/kb/framemaker-downloads.html

For FDK-specific help you might try posting here .. frame-...@groups.io

Cheers,
...scott



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Re: [Framers] read/write rules

[Scott Prentice]

Dave...

I'm quite sure that the FDK at that link is for 16.0.3. It's definitely 
not the one that was released with 16.0 .. has newer functions/defines.


Unfortunately, Adobe doesn't add any versioning to the FDKs other than 
the major release number, so you have to do some diffing to come up with 
an educated guess.


Cheers,
...scott


On 10/20/21 5:00 PM, d...@reqexperts.com wrote:

Scott

Thank you for those ideas. I will try them. I was just in the process of
uninstalling and reinstalling everything so great timing.

I have only ever found one download of the FDK 16 (and it wasn't the Adobe
Developer page which only has the FDK 15). It was on the link you provided.
I have no idea what version it is.

And also thanks for the heads up on the FDK specific group. I will figure
out how to subscribe to the list.

Again thanks..

David L. Hottman
Compliance Automation, Inc
C: 720-984-4325  T: 303-481-8467

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Scott Prentice
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:58 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] read/write rules

Hi Dave...

When initially building an import/export client for FM16 I had to use VS
2019, but as of 16.0.3 that no longer works. With Update #3, Adobe released
a new FDK, but that doesn't work for me either. If you're using 16.0.3, you
might try rolling back to 16.0.2 to see if your client works there (but
don't use the new FDK with 16.0.2).

You can download Update #2 and the latest FDK (for 16.0.3 only, I assume),
from here ..

https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/kb/framemaker-downloads.html

For FDK-specific help you might try posting here .. frame-...@groups.io

Cheers,
...scott



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Re: [Framers] read/write rules

[dave]

Scott

Thank you for those ideas. I will try them. I was just in the process of
uninstalling and reinstalling everything so great timing.

I have only ever found one download of the FDK 16 (and it wasn't the Adobe
Developer page which only has the FDK 15). It was on the link you provided.
I have no idea what version it is.

And also thanks for the heads up on the FDK specific group. I will figure
out how to subscribe to the list.

Again thanks..

David L. Hottman
Compliance Automation, Inc
C: 720-984-4325  T: 303-481-8467 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Scott Prentice
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:58 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] read/write rules

Hi Dave...

When initially building an import/export client for FM16 I had to use VS
2019, but as of 16.0.3 that no longer works. With Update #3, Adobe released
a new FDK, but that doesn't work for me either. If you're using 16.0.3, you
might try rolling back to 16.0.2 to see if your client works there (but
don't use the new FDK with 16.0.2).

You can download Update #2 and the latest FDK (for 16.0.3 only, I assume),
from here ..

https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/kb/framemaker-downloads.html

For FDK-specific help you might try posting here .. frame-...@groups.io

Cheers,
...scott



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Re: [Framers] read/write rules

[Scott Prentice]

Hi Dave...

When initially building an import/export client for FM16 I had to use VS 
2019, but as of 16.0.3 that no longer works. With Update #3, Adobe 
released a new FDK, but that doesn't work for me either. If you're using 
16.0.3, you might try rolling back to 16.0.2 to see if your client works 
there (but don't use the new FDK with 16.0.2).


You can download Update #2 and the latest FDK (for 16.0.3 only, I 
assume), from here ..


https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/kb/framemaker-downloads.html

For FDK-specific help you might try posting here .. frame-...@groups.io

Cheers,
...scott


On 10/20/21 12:42 PM, d...@reqexperts.com wrote:

Lynn

Yes I am kind of thinking the message may not be accurately pointing at the 
problem.

We have recompiled the API client with the FDK16 for Visual Studio 2017. The 
API client appears to load from the API clients section in the maker.ini file 
without a problem.

When I watch a file being saved I don't ever see an XML file being created (the 
folder is empty and I don't see any interim XML files either).

It doesn't appear that the API client is being called before it fails.

Thanks

David L. Hottman
Compliance Automation, Inc

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lynne A. Price
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 12:40 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] read/write rules

Dave,

 Even though the error message refers to the r/w rules, the problem could 
be with your API client. Have you recompiled for the newer version of FM?

  --Lynne

--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284

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Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[tammyvb]

Thank you Dennis!!! 

Much appreciated.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf Of Dennis Hays
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 9:09 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so
> many of us feel the way we do
> 
> June 1, 2021 version of the FrameMaker Help Manual:
> https://www.framegoodies.us/FrameMaker_Help/framemaker_help.pdf
> 
> Dennis
> 
> Lin Sims wrote on 10/20/2021 11:01 AM:
> > Note also that the contents of the PDF and the online help are
identical.
> > It's useful if you're not connected, but it might actually be faster
> > to use the online help if you are.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:00 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> >> That PDF is useful but also a real pain, because it takes forever to
> >> open and searching also takes a while. This is weird, because the
> >> manual for
> >> 2019 is a similar size but opens and searches quickly on the same
machine.
> >> I even tried to save it as optimized without any improvement.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:18 AM Reng Winfried <
> >> w.r...@carecom-solutions.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> You can download the FrameMaker help as PDF from the Adobe
> website:
> >>> https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/help/help-resources.html
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> --
> DENNIS
> Hays
> Quantum Mechanic
> 
> 
> 
> +1 518.779.2322
> dennis.h...@haysdesign.com
> www.HaysDesign.com 
> 11 Circle Dr
> Castleton NY 12033-9526
> 
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
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> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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Re: [Framers] read/write rules

[dave]

Lynn

Yes I am kind of thinking the message may not be accurately pointing at the 
problem. 

We have recompiled the API client with the FDK16 for Visual Studio 2017. The 
API client appears to load from the API clients section in the maker.ini file 
without a problem. 

When I watch a file being saved I don't ever see an XML file being created (the 
folder is empty and I don't see any interim XML files either).

It doesn't appear that the API client is being called before it fails.

Thanks

David L. Hottman
Compliance Automation, Inc

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lynne A. Price
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 12:40 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] read/write rules

Dave,

Even though the error message refers to the r/w rules, the problem could be 
with your API client. Have you recompiled for the newer version of FM?

 --Lynne

--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284

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Re: [Framers] read/write rules

[Lynne A. Price]

Dave,

   Even though the error message refers to the r/w rules, the problem 
could be with your API client. Have you recompiled for the newer version 
of FM?


    --Lynne

On 10/20/2021 11:32 AM, d...@reqexperts.com wrote:

We use a structured application that includes a structured API to tailor the
XML that Framemaker produces. We normally use a very simple read/write file:

...

So for testing we removed the read/write rules from the fm
application definition and we are now getting this:

  


"Fm dispatcher encountered an error and could not complete the translation"
and in the console window "Could not open the read/write rules file
(C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe FrameMaker 2020\structure\xml\default.rw).
Make sure that you have read access to the file and that the file is not
already in use. Error reading the rules file (C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe
FrameMaker 2020\structure\xml\default.rw). XML save aborted."



--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284

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Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Robert Lauriston]

You can pay all at once or monthly, but FrameMaker subscriptions are annual.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:50 AM Peter Gold  wrote:
>
> ... To quote a spokes-emu, "Only subscribe for when you need." ...
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[Framers] read/write rules

[dave]

All 

 

We are converting from Framemaker 15 32 bit to Framemaker 16 64 bit. 

 

We use a structured application that includes a structured API to tailor the
XML that Framemaker produces. We normally use a very simple read/write file:

 

fm version is "16.0";

fm attribute "Level" drop;

fm attribute "BasePgf" drop;

element "GRAPHIC"

{

   is fm graphic element;

   writer anchored frame export to file "$(docname).png" as
"PNG";

}

 

But were getting were getting the following when we try to save a file as
XML:

 

"Fm dispatcher encountered an error and could not complete the translation"
and in the console window "Could not open the read/write rules file
(C:\Users\dave\Documents\Source\TMAA\Software\DHAManualsUtilitiesPDF2021\str
uctapp\Frame To XMLrw.fm). Make sure that you have read access to the file
and that the file is not already in use. Error reading the rules file
(C:\Users\dave\Documents\Source\TMAA\Software\DHAManualsUtilitiesPDF2021\str
uctapp\Frame To XMLrw.fm). XML save aborted.

 

We opened the read/write rules, resaved as FM16, ran the rule checker and
nothing changed. So for testing we removed the read/write rules from the fm
application definition and we are now getting this:

 

"Fm dispatcher encountered an error and could not complete the translation"
and in the console window "Could not open the read/write rules file
(C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe FrameMaker 2020\structure\xml\default.rw).
Make sure that you have read access to the file and that the file is not
already in use. Error reading the rules file (C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe
FrameMaker 2020\structure\xml\default.rw). XML save aborted."

 

We have been using this application and read/write rules for 8 years. Does
anyone have any idea what we may be doing?

 

Thanks

 

David L. Hottman

Compliance Automation, Inc

 

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Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Peter Gold]

Business models evolve. One reason to charge via ongoing subscriptions is
to finance the increasing ongoing development cost of the incremental
releases needed to keep current with industry's advances.

Some of Adobe's Creative Cloud subscription products have been offered on
intermittent month-by-month plans. If this option still exists, it's one
way to make expensive tools affordable.

To quote a spokes-emu, "Only subscribe for when you need."

Agreed that better technical support for those stubborn and costly
productivity-killing issues would help to justify the user fees.

Reading the several recent stories of beyond-lip-service tech support in
the past makes a case for the value of this forum as a place to share
positive and negative Adobe product, service, and corporate experiences
with the community.

It would be great if there was a way to get Adobe people, who have the
clout to make things happen when problems are reported here, read these
forum posts, and get the stuff done!

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 12:11 PM Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> For software companies, one big plus for a subscription model is that
> they only need to support the latest version.
>
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Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Robert Lauriston]

For software companies, one big plus for a subscription model is that
they only need to support the latest version.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 6:20 AM Dennis Hays  wrote:
>
> ... I am not happy with the subscription model as I believe it's an
> egregious affront to hold the software hostage when missing a
> subscription payment. ...
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Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Craig Ede]

I can only echo my agreement with Dennis on this.
.
Craig Ede
…snip…

I am not happy with the subscription model as I believe it's an
egregious affront to hold the software hostage when missing a
subscription payment. From a business point of view, it's a cash flow
solution, reducing the seasonal vagaries of software sales. But it's not
customer-centric.  And this is a problem.
…unsnip…
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Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Dennis Hays]

June 1, 2021 version of the FrameMaker Help Manual:
https://www.framegoodies.us/FrameMaker_Help/framemaker_help.pdf

Dennis

Lin Sims wrote on 10/20/2021 11:01 AM:

Note also that the contents of the PDF and the online help are identical.
It's useful if you're not connected, but it might actually be faster to use
the online help if you are.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:00 AM Lin Sims  wrote:


That PDF is useful but also a real pain, because it takes forever to open
and searching also takes a while. This is weird, because the manual for
2019 is a similar size but opens and searches quickly on the same machine.
I even tried to save it as optimized without any improvement.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:18 AM Reng Winfried <
w.r...@carecom-solutions.com> wrote:


Hi,

You can download the FrameMaker help as PDF from the Adobe website:
https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/help/help-resources.html




--
DENNIS
Hays
Quantum Mechanic



+1 518.779.2322
dennis.h...@haysdesign.com
www.HaysDesign.com 
11 Circle Dr
Castleton NY 12033-9526

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Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Lin Sims]

Note also that the contents of the PDF and the online help are identical.
It's useful if you're not connected, but it might actually be faster to use
the online help if you are.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:00 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> That PDF is useful but also a real pain, because it takes forever to open
> and searching also takes a while. This is weird, because the manual for
> 2019 is a similar size but opens and searches quickly on the same machine.
> I even tried to save it as optimized without any improvement.
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:18 AM Reng Winfried <
> w.r...@carecom-solutions.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> You can download the FrameMaker help as PDF from the Adobe website:
>> https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/help/help-resources.html
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Winfried
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Framers > carecom-solutions@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Blackmon, Ramona
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:00 PM
>> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
>> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why
>> so many of us feel the way we do
>>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> Yes, will you please post the FrameMaker manual you have for us to use as
>> reference?
>>
>> Ramona Blackmon
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Framers > fluke@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Dennis Hays
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:20 AM
>> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so
>> many of us feel the way we do
>>
>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
>> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
>> the content is safe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Way back in the dark ages, when FrameMaker was first ported to Windows, I
>> worked with a FM staff member, Mercedes (still fondly remember her), to
>> address bugs and issues. She sent me updates via overnight courier and
>> these were multiple disk sets, calling for a fresh install. The reason I
>> remember her name is because we talked almost daily and installation disks
>> arrived weekly or more until the issue count dropped.
>>
>> Of course, I don't expect this level of customer service anymore from any
>> software publisher, but through the years I have had bits and pieces of
>> exemplary support. On a contract to bring a trade book to press, I worked
>> with Dov over the phone as to why illustrations with schematics wouldn't
>> reproduce lines. and this from the printer's site in Michigan.
>> More recently, I worked with Adobe to resolve an issue where importing
>> and converting a MS Word document crashed FrameMaker (MS Word Track Changes
>> caused the problem - this was last year).
>>
>> I am not happy with the subscription model as I believe it's an egregious
>> affront to hold the software hostage when missing a subscription payment.
>> From a business point of view, it's a cash flow solution, reducing the
>> seasonal vagaries of software sales. But it's not customer-centric.  And
>> this is a problem.
>>
>> A while back, someone on this forum mentioned difficulty finding a
>> FrameMaker manual. I have a 1241 page Adobe PDF version dated June 1,
>> 2021 on the cover page. It's a 46MB file, but if anyone wants a copy,
>> I'll post it where it can be downloaded.
>>
>> Dennis Hays
>> Ex-Publisher of the now-extinct InFrame Magazine
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>> Archives located at
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>


-- 
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Lin Sims]

That PDF is useful but also a real pain, because it takes forever to open
and searching also takes a while. This is weird, because the manual for
2019 is a similar size but opens and searches quickly on the same machine.
I even tried to save it as optimized without any improvement.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:18 AM Reng Winfried 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> You can download the FrameMaker help as PDF from the Adobe website:
> https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/help/help-resources.html
>
> Best regards
>
> Winfried
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  carecom-solutions@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Blackmon, Ramona
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:00 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so
> many of us feel the way we do
>
> Dennis,
>
> Yes, will you please post the FrameMaker manual you have for us to use as
> reference?
>
> Ramona Blackmon
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  fluke@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Dennis Hays
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:20 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so
> many of us feel the way we do
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Way back in the dark ages, when FrameMaker was first ported to Windows, I
> worked with a FM staff member, Mercedes (still fondly remember her), to
> address bugs and issues. She sent me updates via overnight courier and
> these were multiple disk sets, calling for a fresh install. The reason I
> remember her name is because we talked almost daily and installation disks
> arrived weekly or more until the issue count dropped.
>
> Of course, I don't expect this level of customer service anymore from any
> software publisher, but through the years I have had bits and pieces of
> exemplary support. On a contract to bring a trade book to press, I worked
> with Dov over the phone as to why illustrations with schematics wouldn't
> reproduce lines. and this from the printer's site in Michigan.
> More recently, I worked with Adobe to resolve an issue where importing and
> converting a MS Word document crashed FrameMaker (MS Word Track Changes
> caused the problem - this was last year).
>
> I am not happy with the subscription model as I believe it's an egregious
> affront to hold the software hostage when missing a subscription payment.
> From a business point of view, it's a cash flow solution, reducing the
> seasonal vagaries of software sales. But it's not customer-centric.  And
> this is a problem.
>
> A while back, someone on this forum mentioned difficulty finding a
> FrameMaker manual. I have a 1241 page Adobe PDF version dated June 1,
> 2021 on the cover page. It's a 46MB file, but if anyone wants a copy, I'll
> post it where it can be downloaded.
>
> Dennis Hays
> Ex-Publisher of the now-extinct InFrame Magazine
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>


-- 
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Reng Winfried]

Hi,

You can download the FrameMaker help as PDF from the Adobe website:
https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/help/help-resources.html

Best regards

Winfried

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Blackmon, Ramona
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:00 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so many 
of us feel the way we do

Dennis,

Yes, will you please post the FrameMaker manual you have for us to use as 
reference?

Ramona Blackmon


-Original Message-
From: Framers  
On Behalf Of Dennis Hays
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:20 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of 
us feel the way we do

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.



Way back in the dark ages, when FrameMaker was first ported to Windows, I 
worked with a FM staff member, Mercedes (still fondly remember her), to address 
bugs and issues. She sent me updates via overnight courier and these were 
multiple disk sets, calling for a fresh install. The reason I remember her name 
is because we talked almost daily and installation disks arrived weekly or more 
until the issue count dropped.

Of course, I don't expect this level of customer service anymore from any 
software publisher, but through the years I have had bits and pieces of 
exemplary support. On a contract to bring a trade book to press, I worked with 
Dov over the phone as to why illustrations with schematics wouldn't reproduce 
lines. and this from the printer's site in Michigan.
More recently, I worked with Adobe to resolve an issue where importing and 
converting a MS Word document crashed FrameMaker (MS Word Track Changes caused 
the problem - this was last year).

I am not happy with the subscription model as I believe it's an egregious 
affront to hold the software hostage when missing a subscription payment. From 
a business point of view, it's a cash flow solution, reducing the seasonal 
vagaries of software sales. But it's not customer-centric.  And this is a 
problem.

A while back, someone on this forum mentioned difficulty finding a FrameMaker 
manual. I have a 1241 page Adobe PDF version dated June 1,
2021 on the cover page. It's a 46MB file, but if anyone wants a copy, I'll post 
it where it can be downloaded.

Dennis Hays
Ex-Publisher of the now-extinct InFrame Magazine

___

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Re: [Framers] [EXTERNAL] Re: Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Blackmon, Ramona]

Dennis,

Yes, will you please post the FrameMaker manual you have for us to use as 
reference?

Ramona Blackmon


-Original Message-
From: Framers  
On Behalf Of Dennis Hays
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 6:20 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of 
us feel the way we do

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.



Way back in the dark ages, when FrameMaker was first ported to Windows, I 
worked with a FM staff member, Mercedes (still fondly remember her), to address 
bugs and issues. She sent me updates via overnight courier and these were 
multiple disk sets, calling for a fresh install. The reason I remember her name 
is because we talked almost daily and installation disks arrived weekly or more 
until the issue count dropped.

Of course, I don't expect this level of customer service anymore from any 
software publisher, but through the years I have had bits and pieces of 
exemplary support. On a contract to bring a trade book to press, I worked with 
Dov over the phone as to why illustrations with schematics wouldn't reproduce 
lines. and this from the printer's site in Michigan.
More recently, I worked with Adobe to resolve an issue where importing and 
converting a MS Word document crashed FrameMaker (MS Word Track Changes caused 
the problem - this was last year).

I am not happy with the subscription model as I believe it's an egregious 
affront to hold the software hostage when missing a subscription payment. From 
a business point of view, it's a cash flow solution, reducing the seasonal 
vagaries of software sales. But it's not customer-centric.  And this is a 
problem.

A while back, someone on this forum mentioned difficulty finding a FrameMaker 
manual. I have a 1241 page Adobe PDF version dated June 1,
2021 on the cover page. It's a 46MB file, but if anyone wants a copy, I'll post 
it where it can be downloaded.

Dennis Hays
Ex-Publisher of the now-extinct InFrame Magazine


Böðvar Björgvinsson wrote on 10/20/2021 7:54 AM:
> Dear Wim,
>
> I do think Adobe reads this list, at least from time to time. So it is
> IMNSHO essential that we discuss, not only the day-to-day problems we
> are facing in our tasks with FM but also its pros and cons. I for one
> welcome the discussion of the attitude that Adobe seems to show
> regarding development, pricing, etc. of FrameMaker. I am of the view
> that Adobe is
> (intentionally?) making it less of a competitor to InDesign by
> refusing to add features that ID has and we have asked for to be added
> to FM. If they did, and if they would enable you freely to add spell
> checker and hyphenation for your language of choice, FM would be the
> absolutely best tool for writing, editing, publishing any kind of
> literature. Then even I would pay for upgrades. Until then I am not
> upgrading. I can do with older versions quite easily.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bodvar Bjorgvinsson (retired)
> Iceland.
>
>

--
DENNIS
Hays
Quantum Mechanic



+1 518.779.2322
dennis.h...@haysdesign.com
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.HaysDesign.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!J11TiN_55e8OMSPk6aP8503jChfNmYh-je2YguSomALgjQyTiV2yGFJbU4Ljhx-Nt_LY$
  

11 Circle Dr
Castleton NY 12033-9526

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Subscribe 

Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Dennis Hays]

Way back in the dark ages, when FrameMaker was first ported to Windows, 
I worked with a FM staff member, Mercedes (still fondly remember her), 
to address bugs and issues. She sent me updates via overnight courier 
and these were multiple disk sets, calling for a fresh install. The 
reason I remember her name is because we talked almost daily and 
installation disks arrived weekly or more until the issue count dropped.


Of course, I don't expect this level of customer service anymore from 
any software publisher, but through the years I have had bits and pieces 
of exemplary support. On a contract to bring a trade book to press, I 
worked with Dov over the phone as to why illustrations with schematics 
wouldn't reproduce lines. and this from the printer's site in Michigan. 
More recently, I worked with Adobe to resolve an issue where importing 
and converting a MS Word document crashed FrameMaker (MS Word Track 
Changes caused the problem - this was last year).


I am not happy with the subscription model as I believe it's an 
egregious affront to hold the software hostage when missing a 
subscription payment. From a business point of view, it's a cash flow 
solution, reducing the seasonal vagaries of software sales. But it's not 
customer-centric.  And this is a problem.


A while back, someone on this forum mentioned difficulty finding a 
FrameMaker manual. I have a 1241 page Adobe PDF version dated June 1, 
2021 on the cover page. It's a 46MB file, but if anyone wants a copy, 
I'll post it where it can be downloaded.


Dennis Hays
Ex-Publisher of the now-extinct InFrame Magazine


Böðvar Björgvinsson wrote on 10/20/2021 7:54 AM:

Dear Wim,

I do think Adobe reads this list, at least from time to time. So it is
IMNSHO essential that we discuss, not only the day-to-day problems we are
facing in our tasks with FM but also its pros and cons. I for one welcome
the discussion of the attitude that Adobe seems to show regarding
development, pricing, etc. of FrameMaker. I am of the view that Adobe is
(intentionally?) making it less of a competitor to InDesign by refusing to
add features that ID has and we have asked for to be added to FM. If they
did, and if they would enable you freely to add spell checker and
hyphenation for your language of choice, FM would be the absolutely best
tool for writing, editing, publishing any kind of literature. Then even I
would pay for upgrades. Until then I am not upgrading. I can do with older
versions quite easily.

Kind regards,
Bodvar Bjorgvinsson (retired)
Iceland.




--
DENNIS
Hays
Quantum Mechanic



+1 518.779.2322
dennis.h...@haysdesign.com
www.HaysDesign.com 
11 Circle Dr
Castleton NY 12033-9526

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Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Böðvar Björgvinsson]

Dear Wim,

I do think Adobe reads this list, at least from time to time. So it is
IMNSHO essential that we discuss, not only the day-to-day problems we are
facing in our tasks with FM but also its pros and cons. I for one welcome
the discussion of the attitude that Adobe seems to show regarding
development, pricing, etc. of FrameMaker. I am of the view that Adobe is
(intentionally?) making it less of a competitor to InDesign by refusing to
add features that ID has and we have asked for to be added to FM. If they
did, and if they would enable you freely to add spell checker and
hyphenation for your language of choice, FM would be the absolutely best
tool for writing, editing, publishing any kind of literature. Then even I
would pay for upgrades. Until then I am not upgrading. I can do with older
versions quite easily.

Kind regards,
Bodvar Bjorgvinsson (retired)
Iceland.




þri., 19. okt. 2021 kl. 19:19 skrifaði Wim iDTP :

> Hi all,
>
> can we go back to where this list is ment for: help eachother out with
> FrameMaker issues.
>
> If you don’t use FM (anymore) or don’t like FM (anymore) or don’t want to
> pay for FM (anymore) - that’s up to you.
>
> This list is for FrameMaker users. Let’s stick to that.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
>
> Wim Hooghwinkel
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Shmuel Wolfson]

The advantage of talking about what we don't like, is that hopefully 
they will fix the issues. It's not just to blow off steam.



On 19-Oct-21 10:24 AM, Wim iDTP wrote:

Hi all,

can we go back to where this list is ment for: help eachother out with 
FrameMaker issues.

If you don’t use FM (anymore) or don’t like FM (anymore) or don’t want to pay 
for FM (anymore) - that’s up to you.

This list is for FrameMaker users. Let’s stick to that.

Thanks!


Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
  
Wim Hooghwinkel



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