Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[David Artman]

   Perhaps I will, if I'm ever working in FrameMaker again. I've become a
   bit of a DITA specialist lately, and at a past job we even made
   specializations to create form elements in the XML and render them with
   an ANT argument (or not). That let us use a single map for a procedure
   and its associated checklist, which only showed top-level steps with
   "Done" or "N/A" radio buttons and, occasionally, text fields or other
   sub-fields. The checklist also had a "Show step details" or "Show
   screen example" cross-links to the full procedure PDF. Very slick once
   it all was working.

   BUT this is all orthogonal to the main point, which was "how and why"
   add PDF content to a FM-source document. I was just spitballing ideas
   for Laura as I had some free time, because I find advanced/theoretical
   discussions interesting.

   Have a great week!

   David

   ---- Original Message ----
   Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   From: Lin Sims <[1]ljsims...@gmail.com>
   Date: Tue, March 21, 2017 11:42 am
   To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
   <[2]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
   David,
   I've never worked with TimeSavers (or created forms of any sort), so my
   understanding of what his tools can do is limited. He does say that he
   can
   provide custom solutions, so it may be worthwhile to contact him and
   ask
   both about the Forms Assistant capabilities and whether creating
   dynamic
   forms is possible with his tool. Be pretty cool if you could! :)

References

   1. mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[Lin Sims]

David,

I've never worked with TimeSavers (or created forms of any sort), so my
understanding of what his tools can do is limited. He does say that he can
provide custom solutions, so it may be worthwhile to contact him and ask
both about the Forms Assistant capabilities and whether creating dynamic
forms is possible with his tool. Be pretty cool if you could! :)

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:22 AM, David Artman <da...@davidartman.com>
wrote:

>Whoops! I didn't read your second reply before responding.
>
>No worries.
>
> Original Message ----
>    Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
>From: Lin Sims <[1]ljsims...@gmail.com>
>Date: Tue, March 21, 2017 10:08 am
>To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
><[2]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
>Hmmm. Just now reading up on dynamic forms. Did NOT realize they
>rerendered; I have mistaken interactive for dynamic, I guess.
>My apologies, David.
>On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Lin Sims <[3]ljsims...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> If by a dynamic form you're talking about a PDF form that can be
>filled in
>> and saved, then yes, it can. There's a plugin for forms call Forms
>> Assistant. Fillable fields, drop-down selection, radio buttons, check
>> marks, the works. I took one of his courses years ago, and the order
>form
>> was a PDF he made using Frame and TimeSavers. It was very slick.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, David Artman
><[4]da...@davidartman.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, yes, I'm well aware of MicroType TimeSavers. I do not think they
>>> will do dynamic forms, though.
>>>
>>>  Original Message 
>>> Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
>>> From: Lin Sims <[1][5]ljsims...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Mon, March 20, 2017 4:18 pm
>>> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
>>> <[2][6]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
>>> Dave,
>>> If you want to create forms and other things in Frame for output to
>>> PDF,
>>> check out Shlomo Perets' Microtypes website. His TimeSavers tools
>>> insert
>>> postscript code into Frame files to do things like create dynamic
>>> forms.
>>> [3][7]http://microtype.com/showcase.html
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, David Artman
>>> <[4][8]da...@davidartman.com> wrote:
>>> > You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file,
>in
>>> > whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document >
>Insert
>>> > Pages.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted
>PDF
>>> > will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do
>some
>>> > fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get
>it
>>> > all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
>>> > problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific
>value
>>> > (e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.
>>> >
>>> > As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you
>get
>>> > content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that
>>> would
>>> > not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
>>> > locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
>>> > another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on
>unlocked
>>> > PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have
>to
>>> > insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)
>>> >
>>> > OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for
>example
>>> a
>>> > dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such
>things
>>> in
>>> > FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but
>it
>>> > seems kosher.
>>> >
>>> > Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of
>output
>>> > resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF.
>That
>>> > would avoid you having to setup s

Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[David Artman]

   Whoops! I didn't read your second reply before responding.

   No worries.

    Original Message 
   Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   From: Lin Sims <[1]ljsims...@gmail.com>
   Date: Tue, March 21, 2017 10:08 am
   To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
   <[2]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
   Hmmm. Just now reading up on dynamic forms. Did NOT realize they
   rerendered; I have mistaken interactive for dynamic, I guess.
   My apologies, David.
   On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Lin Sims <[3]ljsims...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
   > If by a dynamic form you're talking about a PDF form that can be
   filled in
   > and saved, then yes, it can. There's a plugin for forms call Forms
   > Assistant. Fillable fields, drop-down selection, radio buttons, check
   > marks, the works. I took one of his courses years ago, and the order
   form
   > was a PDF he made using Frame and TimeSavers. It was very slick.
   >
   >
   >
   > On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, David Artman
   <[4]da...@davidartman.com>
   > wrote:
   >
   >> Oh, yes, I'm well aware of MicroType TimeSavers. I do not think they
   >> will do dynamic forms, though.
   >>
   >>  Original Message 
   >> Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   >> From: Lin Sims <[1][5]ljsims...@gmail.com>
   >> Date: Mon, March 20, 2017 4:18 pm
   >> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
   >> <[2][6]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
   >> Dave,
   >> If you want to create forms and other things in Frame for output to
   >> PDF,
   >> check out Shlomo Perets' Microtypes website. His TimeSavers tools
   >> insert
   >> postscript code into Frame files to do things like create dynamic
   >> forms.
   >> [3][7]http://microtype.com/showcase.html
   >> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, David Artman
   >> <[4][8]da...@davidartman.com> wrote:
   >> > You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file,
   in
   >> > whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document >
   Insert
   >> > Pages.
   >> >
   >> > Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted
   PDF
   >> > will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do
   some
   >> > fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get
   it
   >> > all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
   >> > problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific
   value
   >> > (e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.
   >> >
   >> > As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you
   get
   >> > content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that
   >> would
   >> > not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
   >> > locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
   >> > another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on
   unlocked
   >> > PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have
   to
   >> > insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)
   >> >
   >> > OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for
   example
   >> a
   >> > dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such
   things
   >> in
   >> > FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but
   it
   >> > seems kosher.
   >> >
   >> > Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of
   output
   >> > resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF.
   That
   >> > would avoid you having to setup several master pages in the same
   book
   >> > to show the variations. OR, if you are, say, making a training
   manual
   >> > for using your publishing environment, and you want to show a
   sample
   >> of
   >> > all the output types, but Help won't append: make the Help output
   >> save
   >> > as PDF and then append tot he "how to" main PDF:
   >> >
   >> > * How To Run Output (1 PDF with 'internal style')
   >> >
   >> > ** PDF Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book with
   >> > 'external style')
   >> >
   >> > ** Help Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book
   rendered
   >> as
   >> > Help then exported/saved as PDF)
   >> >
   >> > ** (etc.)
   >> >
   >> > So, sure! It's recommended in c

Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[David Artman]

   No, I mean a form that changes its fields based on other fields. For
   instance, radio buttons at the top that read "Customer" and "Support"
   and, when selected, make different fields appear below them.

   If TimeSavers can do THAT, nowadays, then I stand corrected (and in
   awe).

    Original Message ----
   Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   From: Lin Sims <[1]ljsims...@gmail.com>
   Date: Tue, March 21, 2017 10:00 am
   To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
   <[2]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
   If by a dynamic form you're talking about a PDF form that can be filled
   in
   and saved, then yes, it can. There's a plugin for forms call Forms
   Assistant. Fillable fields, drop-down selection, radio buttons, check
   marks, the works. I took one of his courses years ago, and the order
   form
   was a PDF he made using Frame and TimeSavers. It was very slick.
   On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, David Artman
   <[3]da...@davidartman.com> wrote:
   > Oh, yes, I'm well aware of MicroType TimeSavers. I do not think they
   > will do dynamic forms, though.
   >
   > ---- Original Message 
   > Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   > From: Lin Sims <[1][4]ljsims...@gmail.com>
   > Date: Mon, March 20, 2017 4:18 pm
   > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
   > <[2][5]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
   > Dave,
   > If you want to create forms and other things in Frame for output to
   > PDF,
   > check out Shlomo Perets' Microtypes website. His TimeSavers tools
   > insert
   > postscript code into Frame files to do things like create dynamic
   > forms.
   > [3][6]http://microtype.com/showcase.html
   > On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, David Artman
   > <[4][7]da...@davidartman.com> wrote:
   > > You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file,
   in
   > > whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document >
   Insert
   > > Pages.
   > >
   > > Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted PDF
   > > will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do some
   > > fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get
   it
   > > all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
   > > problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific
   value
   > > (e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.
   > >
   > > As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you
   get
   > > content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that
   > would
   > > not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
   > > locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
   > > another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on unlocked
   > > PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have
   to
   > > insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)
   > >
   > > OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for
   example
   > a
   > > dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such
   things
   > in
   > > FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but it
   > > seems kosher.
   > >
   > > Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of output
   > > resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF.
   That
   > > would avoid you having to setup several master pages in the same
   book
   > > to show the variations. OR, if you are, say, making a training
   manual
   > > for using your publishing environment, and you want to show a
   sample
   > of
   > > all the output types, but Help won't append: make the Help output
   > save
   > > as PDF and then append tot he "how to" main PDF:
   > >
   > > * How To Run Output (1 PDF with 'internal style')
   > >
   > > ** PDF Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book with
   > > 'external style')
   > >
   > > ** Help Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book
   rendered
   > as
   > > Help then exported/saved as PDF)
   > >
   > > ** (etc.)
   > >
   > > So, sure! It's recommended in cases where sourcing everything in
   > > FrameMaker is impossible, too time consuming, or a poor
   content-reuse
   > > scenario. Hope this helps;
   > >
   > > David
   > >
   > >  Original Message 
   > > Subject: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   > > From: lklane64 <[1][5][8]lklan...@gmail.com&

Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[Rick Quatro]

Forms Assistant with TimeSavers is a fantastic way to make forms in
FrameMaker. Here is a link to a form that I created with a FrameMaker table
and TimeSavers/Forms Assistant. I used a script to help populate the table
cells with the TimeSavers markers. The form is for a weight-loss contest
that I friend of mine had.

http://www.rickquatro.com/resources/LosersAreWinners_Men.pdf


Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
r...@frameexpert.com
585-366-4017



-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
Of Lin Sims
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 10:00 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

If by a dynamic form you're talking about a PDF form that can be filled in
and saved, then yes, it can. There's a plugin for forms call Forms
Assistant. Fillable fields, drop-down selection, radio buttons, check marks,
the works. I took one of his courses years ago, and the order form was a PDF
he made using Frame and TimeSavers. It was very slick.


___

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Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[Lin Sims]

Hmmm. Just now reading up on dynamic forms. Did NOT realize they
rerendered; I have mistaken interactive for dynamic, I guess.

My apologies, David.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If by a dynamic form you're talking about a PDF form that can be filled in
> and saved, then yes, it can. There's a plugin for forms call Forms
> Assistant. Fillable fields, drop-down selection, radio buttons, check
> marks, the works. I took one of his courses years ago, and the order form
> was a PDF he made using Frame and TimeSavers. It was very slick.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, David Artman <da...@davidartman.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Oh, yes, I'm well aware of MicroType TimeSavers. I do not think they
>>will do dynamic forms, though.
>>
>>    ---- Original Message 
>>Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
>>From: Lin Sims <[1]ljsims...@gmail.com>
>>Date: Mon, March 20, 2017 4:18 pm
>>To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
>><[2]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
>>Dave,
>>If you want to create forms and other things in Frame for output to
>>PDF,
>>check out Shlomo Perets' Microtypes website. His TimeSavers tools
>>insert
>>postscript code into Frame files to do things like create dynamic
>>forms.
>>[3]http://microtype.com/showcase.html
>>On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, David Artman
>><[4]da...@davidartman.com> wrote:
>>> You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file, in
>>> whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document > Insert
>>> Pages.
>>>
>>> Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted PDF
>>> will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do some
>>> fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get it
>>> all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
>>> problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific value
>>> (e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.
>>>
>>> As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you get
>>> content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that
>>would
>>> not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
>>> locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
>>> another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on unlocked
>>> PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have to
>>> insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)
>>>
>>> OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for example
>>a
>>> dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such things
>>in
>>> FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but it
>>> seems kosher.
>>>
>>> Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of output
>>> resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF. That
>>> would avoid you having to setup several master pages in the same book
>>> to show the variations. OR, if you are, say, making a training manual
>>> for using your publishing environment, and you want to show a sample
>>of
>>> all the output types, but Help won't append: make the Help output
>>save
>>> as PDF and then append tot he "how to" main PDF:
>>>
>>> * How To Run Output (1 PDF with 'internal style')
>>>
>>    > ** PDF Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book with
>>> 'external style')
>>>
>>> ** Help Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book rendered
>>as
>>> Help then exported/saved as PDF)
>>>
>>> ** (etc.)
>>>
>>> So, sure! It's recommended in cases where sourcing everything in
>>> FrameMaker is impossible, too time consuming, or a poor content-reuse
>>> scenario. Hope this helps;
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>  Original Message 
>>> Subject: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
>>> From: lklane64 <[1][5]lklan...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Fri, March 17, 2017 9:35 am
>>> To: [2][6]framers@li

Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[Lin Sims]

If by a dynamic form you're talking about a PDF form that can be filled in
and saved, then yes, it can. There's a plugin for forms call Forms
Assistant. Fillable fields, drop-down selection, radio buttons, check
marks, the works. I took one of his courses years ago, and the order form
was a PDF he made using Frame and TimeSavers. It was very slick.



On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, David Artman <da...@davidartman.com> wrote:

>Oh, yes, I'm well aware of MicroType TimeSavers. I do not think they
>will do dynamic forms, though.
>
> Original Message 
>Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
>From: Lin Sims <[1]ljsims...@gmail.com>
>Date: Mon, March 20, 2017 4:18 pm
>To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
><[2]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
>Dave,
>If you want to create forms and other things in Frame for output to
>PDF,
>check out Shlomo Perets' Microtypes website. His TimeSavers tools
>insert
>postscript code into Frame files to do things like create dynamic
>forms.
>[3]http://microtype.com/showcase.html
>On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, David Artman
><[4]da...@davidartman.com> wrote:
>> You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file, in
>> whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document > Insert
>> Pages.
>>
>> Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted PDF
>> will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do some
>> fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get it
>> all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
>> problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific value
>> (e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.
>>
>> As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you get
>> content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that
>would
>> not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
>> locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
>> another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on unlocked
>> PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have to
>> insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)
>>
>> OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for example
>a
>> dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such things
>in
>> FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but it
>> seems kosher.
>>
>> Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of output
>> resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF. That
>> would avoid you having to setup several master pages in the same book
>> to show the variations. OR, if you are, say, making a training manual
>> for using your publishing environment, and you want to show a sample
>of
>> all the output types, but Help won't append: make the Help output
>save
>> as PDF and then append tot he "how to" main PDF:
>>
>> * How To Run Output (1 PDF with 'internal style')
>>
>> ** PDF Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book with
>> 'external style')
>>
>> ** Help Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book rendered
>as
>> Help then exported/saved as PDF)
>>
>> ** (etc.)
>>
>> So, sure! It's recommended in cases where sourcing everything in
>> FrameMaker is impossible, too time consuming, or a poor content-reuse
>> scenario. Hope this helps;
>>
>> David
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
>> From: lklane64 <[1][5]lklan...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Fri, March 17, 2017 9:35 am
>> To: [2][6]framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to
>a
>> FM book file. Does anyone know if this is possible or even
>> recommended?
>> Thanks in advance,Laura
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. [7]mailto:lklan...@gmail.com
>> 2. [8]mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
>> Send messages to [9]framers@lists.frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[David Artman]

   Oh, yes, I'm well aware of MicroType TimeSavers. I do not think they
   will do dynamic forms, though.

    Original Message 
   Subject: Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   From: Lin Sims <[1]ljsims...@gmail.com>
   Date: Mon, March 20, 2017 4:18 pm
   To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
   <[2]framers@lists.frameusers.com>
   Dave,
   If you want to create forms and other things in Frame for output to
   PDF,
   check out Shlomo Perets' Microtypes website. His TimeSavers tools
   insert
   postscript code into Frame files to do things like create dynamic
   forms.
   [3]http://microtype.com/showcase.html
   On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, David Artman
   <[4]da...@davidartman.com> wrote:
   > You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file, in
   > whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document > Insert
   > Pages.
   >
   > Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted PDF
   > will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do some
   > fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get it
   > all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
   > problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific value
   > (e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.
   >
   > As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you get
   > content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that
   would
   > not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
   > locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
   > another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on unlocked
   > PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have to
   > insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)
   >
   > OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for example
   a
   > dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such things
   in
   > FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but it
   > seems kosher.
   >
   > Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of output
   > resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF. That
   > would avoid you having to setup several master pages in the same book
   > to show the variations. OR, if you are, say, making a training manual
   > for using your publishing environment, and you want to show a sample
   of
   > all the output types, but Help won't append: make the Help output
   save
   > as PDF and then append tot he "how to" main PDF:
   >
   > * How To Run Output (1 PDF with 'internal style')
   >
   > ** PDF Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book with
   > 'external style')
   >
   > ** Help Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book rendered
   as
   > Help then exported/saved as PDF)
   >
   > ** (etc.)
   >
   > So, sure! It's recommended in cases where sourcing everything in
   > FrameMaker is impossible, too time consuming, or a poor content-reuse
   > scenario. Hope this helps;
   >
   > David
   >
   >  Original Message 
   > Subject: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   > From: lklane64 <[1][5]lklan...@gmail.com>
   > Date: Fri, March 17, 2017 9:35 am
   > To: [2][6]framers@lists.frameusers.com
   > I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to
   a
   > FM book file. Does anyone know if this is possible or even
   > recommended?
   > Thanks in advance,Laura
   >
   > References
   >
   > 1. [7]mailto:lklan...@gmail.com
   > 2. [8]mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com
   > ___
   >
   > This message is from the Framers mailing list
   >
   > Send messages to [9]framers@lists.frameusers.com
   > Visit the list's homepage at [10]http://www.frameusers.com
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   > framers%[12]40lists.frameusers.com/
   > Subscribe and unsubscribe at [13]http://lists.frameusers.com/
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   >
   --
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References

   1. mailto:ljsims.

Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[Lin Sims]

Dave,

If you want to create forms and other things in Frame for output to PDF,
check out Shlomo Perets' Microtypes website. His TimeSavers tools  insert
postscript code into Frame files to do things like create dynamic forms.

http://microtype.com/showcase.html

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM, David Artman <da...@davidartman.com> wrote:

>You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file, in
>whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document > Insert
>Pages.
>
>Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted PDF
>will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do some
>fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get it
>all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
>problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific value
>(e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.
>
>As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you get
>content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that would
>not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
>locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
>another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on unlocked
>PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have to
>insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)
>
>OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for example a
>dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such things in
>FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but it
>seems kosher.
>
>Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of output
>resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF. That
>would avoid you having to setup several master pages in the same book
>to show the variations. OR, if you are, say, making a training manual
>for using your publishing environment, and you want to show a sample of
>all the output types, but Help won't append: make the Help output save
>as PDF and then append tot he "how to" main PDF:
>
>* How To Run Output (1 PDF with 'internal style')
>
>** PDF Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book with
>'external style')
>
>** Help Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book rendered as
>Help then exported/saved as PDF)
>
>** (etc.)
>
>So, sure! It's recommended in cases where sourcing everything in
>    FrameMaker is impossible, too time consuming, or a poor content-reuse
>scenario. Hope this helps;
>
>David
>
> Original Message 
>Subject: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
>From: lklane64 <[1]lklan...@gmail.com>
>Date: Fri, March 17, 2017 9:35 am
>To: [2]framers@lists.frameusers.com
>I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a
>FM book file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even
>recommended?
>Thanks in advance,Laura
>
> References
>
>1. mailto:lklan...@gmail.com
>2. mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>



-- 
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Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[David Artman]

   You can use Acrobat Pro to append a PDF file to another PDF file, in
   whole or in part, and (IIRC) at any location using Document > Insert
   Pages.

   Yes, this adds a step (or more!) to workflow. Yes, the inserted PDF
   will have its own footers, etc; and thus, you might have to do some
   fancy footwork with page numbering in the two source files to get it
   all to align. Yes, any other autonumbering will be similarly
   problematic, requiring you to force it to start with a specific value
   (e.g., n=25). But you'll have a PDF "in" another PDF.

   As for "is [it] recommended", I think it's a good practice if you get
   content from a business partner, legal, or some other entity that would
   not want you to have any chance of editing it. (Hmm... but such a
   locked-down PDF might not be appendable, in part or in whole, to
   another one? And you can always use Advanced Text Tools on unlocked
   PDFs, so maybe this use case ISN'T a good one! You'd probably have to
   insert into FrameMaker as full-page "images" if locked down.)

   OK, another use case is a PDF created in another editor, for example a
   dynamic form made in LiveCycle Designer. VERY hard to do such things in
   FrameMaker, but easy in LCD. I've never tried that workflow, but it
   seems kosher.

   Finally, you could have an 'example' PDF that is a sample of output
   resulting from a process that is documented in the earlier PDF. That
   would avoid you having to setup several master pages in the same book
   to show the variations. OR, if you are, say, making a training manual
   for using your publishing environment, and you want to show a sample of
   all the output types, but Help won't append: make the Help output save
   as PDF and then append tot he "how to" main PDF:

   * How To Run Output (1 PDF with 'internal style')

   ** PDF Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book with
   'external style')

   ** Help Output Example (1 PDF of single-sourced sample book rendered as
   Help then exported/saved as PDF)

   ** (etc.)

   So, sure! It's recommended in cases where sourcing everything in
   FrameMaker is impossible, too time consuming, or a poor content-reuse
   scenario. Hope this helps;

   David

   ---- Original Message ----
   Subject: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file
   From: lklane64 <[1]lklan...@gmail.com>
   Date: Fri, March 17, 2017 9:35 am
   To: [2]framers@lists.frameusers.com
   I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a
   FM book file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even
   recommended?
   Thanks in advance,Laura

References

   1. mailto:lklan...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[lklane64]

Thanks for the reply Lin.  I was wanting the second option where I can add a 
PDF to a book file.  I wish that FM could do that. 
 Thanks for looking into it.Laura

 Original message From: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com> Date: 
3/17/17  8:47 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: "An email list for people using Adobe 
FrameMaker software." <framers@lists.frameusers.com> Subject: Re: [Framers] 
PDFs in a FM book file 
Laura,

Not entirely certain what you're asking here. If you mean, can a PDF file
be imported into a FM file, the answer is yes, but it comes in as a graphic
and can only be imported one page at a time.

If you mean, add a PDF file as a file/chapter in a book, then the answer is
no. I just tried, and FM responded this was not a recognizable format.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 9:35 AM, lklane64 <lklan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a FM
> book file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even recommended?
> Thanks in advance,Laura
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Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[Lin Sims]

Laura,

Not entirely certain what you're asking here. If you mean, can a PDF file
be imported into a FM file, the answer is yes, but it comes in as a graphic
and can only be imported one page at a time.

If you mean, add a PDF file as a file/chapter in a book, then the answer is
no. I just tried, and FM responded this was not a recognizable format.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 9:35 AM, lklane64  wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a FM
> book file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even recommended?
> Thanks in advance,Laura
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
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> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
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[Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[lklane64]

I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a FM book 
file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even recommended? 
Thanks in advance,Laura
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