RE: Automating the application of Master Pages
Thanks for the responses - I'm just back from the long UK holiday weekend. It had never occurred to me that having all master pages defined in a single template (I inherited it some years ago and have added to it occasionally, but have never had to set a template up from scratch) could be disadvantageous so it was interesting to look at it in that light. I see that if I separated the various custom master pages into appropriate templates, defining the standard Left and Right pages in each template accordingly, I would get Apply Master Pages to work. Rick also pointed out about the benefit of this approach regarding deletion of blank master pages on save and correct application of master pages for new content. And yet, my instinct is still to keep the master pages together - resistance to change, I suppose, and the knowledge that there is just a single template to maintain. Coincidentally, this Apply Master Pages issue arose in the first place because I used to have a separate template for landscape chapters, but now I need to cater for the possibility of mixed portrait and landscape pages in the same chapter, so I thought it would be sensible to bring the landscape pages into the standard template and save having to think about separate templates, and then I thought that whilst I was at it I'd take a look at Apply Master Pages. Turns out perhaps I should have been heading the other way all along! I'll mull over all this for the future rather than leap in straight away with a few new templates as it wasn't a big deal to do the master pages manually. But I now know more about custom master pages which is really useful, so thank you. Alexandra Wilowska ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Automating the application of Master Pages
Thanks for the responses - I'm just back from the long UK holiday weekend. It had never occurred to me that having all master pages defined in a single template (I inherited it some years ago and have added to it occasionally, but have never had to set a template up from scratch) could be disadvantageous so it was interesting to look at it in that light. I see that if I separated the various custom master pages into appropriate templates, defining the standard Left and Right pages in each template accordingly, I would get Apply Master Pages to work. Rick also pointed out about the benefit of this approach regarding deletion of blank master pages on save and correct application of master pages for new content. And yet, my instinct is still to keep the master pages together - resistance to change, I suppose, and the knowledge that there is just a single template to maintain. Coincidentally, this Apply Master Pages issue arose in the first place because I used to have a separate template for landscape chapters, but now I need to cater for the possibility of mixed portrait and landscape pages in the same chapter, so I thought it would be sensible to bring the landscape pages into the standard template and save having to think about separate templates, and then I thought that whilst I was at it I'd take a look at Apply Master Pages. Turns out perhaps I should have been heading the other way all along! I'll mull over all this for the future rather than leap in straight away with a few new templates as it wasn't a big deal to do the master pages manually. But I now know more about custom master pages which is really useful, so thank you. Alexandra Wilowska
Re: Automating the application of Master Pages
At 23:53 +0200 4/5/07, Michael Müller-Hillebrand wrote: So for a TOC you could define rules for the (unique) TOC paragraph formats to switch to the custom masterpages in single page mode. This is true, and your approach is valid. However, it is perhaps a special case, particularly as the original poster, Alexandra Wilowska, is using unstructured FrameMaker, making this solution inaccessible to her. It would be interesting to see if a consensus of 'best practise' appears over master page maintenance for books. It is a parallel argument to the one about maintaining paragraph and character tags per-document vs. book-wide - another issue I can never really decide on myself. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Automating the application of Master Pages
Well, one different opinion here: I like it very much to have a single template for all documents in a book. It is also the way FrameMaker Structure Applications work, so it is a good preparation for your future migration to structured FrameMaker. Rick's comment about the deletion of extra pages is correct. But the automatic assignment of master pages first sets all pages to the default Left/Right and then assigns any custom pages. So for a TOC you could define rules for the (unique) TOC paragraph formats to switch to the custom masterpages in "single page" mode. Any extraneous pages will then be deleted automatically. I hope. Especially since I use custom scripts to do multi-language template maintenance, I always use a single template. - Michael Am 04.05.2007 15:11, Rick Quatro schrieb/wrote: > Hi Alexandra, > > I don't favor the Preface Right / Preface Left approach to master pages. > It is better to have a separate Preface template with the appropriate > default Left/Right master pages. The main reason is that only blank > default master pages at the end of the document are deleted when the > document is saved. Additionally, when new content is added to the > document, the correct master pages are always applied. While it seems > appealing to have a single template, the trade off is more work making > sure that the correct master pages are applied. > > Rick Quatro > Carmen Publishing > 585-659-8267 > www.frameexpert.com > > >> Dear Framers >> >> I've just been looking into the automatic Apply Master Pages >> functionality >> in FM7.0 for the first time. I'm using unstructured FM on WinXP. -- ___ Michael M?ller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologien Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker 7.0 L?sungen und Training mit FrameScript, XML/XSL, WWP, ... http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747
Automating the application of Master Pages
At 23:53 +0200 4/5/07, Michael M?ller-Hillebrand wrote: >So for a TOC you could define rules for the (unique) TOC paragraph formats to >switch to the custom masterpages in "single page" mode. This is true, and your approach is valid. However, it is perhaps a special case, particularly as the original poster, Alexandra Wilowska, is using unstructured FrameMaker, making this solution inaccessible to her. It would be interesting to see if a consensus of 'best practise' appears over master page maintenance for books. It is a parallel argument to the one about maintaining paragraph and character tags per-document vs. book-wide - another issue I can never really decide on myself. -- Steve
Automating the application of Master Pages
Dear Framers I've just been looking into the automatic Apply Master Pages functionality in FM7.0 for the first time. I'm using unstructured FM on WinXP. I maintain multi-chapter books where each book component uses the same template and all possible master pages are defined in the template. Hitherto I've assigned master pages manually and I'm happy enough to do that, but as I had a bit of spare time yesterday I thought I'd see briefly whether I could set up the Apply Master Pages functionality to automatically set all my different master pages appropriately. I've never tried it before as the manual approach is not a huge overhead for me. But from an initial look I don't think I can make it do exactly what I want. For example, I have a Preface chapter prior to the main Chapters. There are master pages for, say, Preface First, Preface Right and Preface Left, which differ from the master pages used in standard Chapters. The first page of the Preface is distinguished by a unique para tag in the heading, so I can map that to the appropriate master page. But the subsequent preface pages do not differ in terms of tags used from subsequent pages in a normal chapter. What makes them preface pages is purely that they follow on from a preface front page until the end of the preface file. No unique tag on the page marks it as a preface page and the same tags can appear on chapter pages. I would like to set things up so as to: map Preface Heading para to the Preface First master page, then for each subsequent left/right page apply Preface Left or Preface Right, until a Chapter Heading para is encountered, whereupon map that para to a Chapter First master page, apply it and apply subsequent Chapter Left and Right pages etc. I have the same issue with appendices, but you get the idea. I think in theory that it would only work if I cloned and renamed a para that would appear on each preface page after the first, and mapped that with an Until Changed range indicator, and similar for chapter pages. But I'd prefer to just keep doing the master pages manually than proliferate para tags. I looked on the web at the documentation for the Silicon Prairie Master Page Tools, which looked more promising, as you can use a marker to indicate the appropriate master page mapping in situations where you can't rely on the presence of a particular para tag. But I would still have to maintain the markers, and my interpretation of the documentation was that that I would have to have a marker tag on each page that couldn't be mapped to a para (i.e. I wouldn't be able to put a marker tag on the second preface page only but have it apply appropriate preface left and right pages for all subsequent pages until a different master page trigger is encountered). Again, probably less effort to just apply the pages manually. I do have FrameScript so another option would be to write a script to suit my circumstances if I really really wanted to. I thought I'd run it by this list to see whether a) with my limited time and knowledge I've correctly interpreted how FM's Apply Master Pages and Silicon Prairie's Master Page Tools operate, and b) how anybody else might automate this requirement. Like I said, it's not a major issue for me, but I'm sure that it can't be such a rare requirement. Regards, Alex Wilowska ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Automating the application of Master Pages
At 11:08 +0100 4/5/07, Alexandra Wilowska wrote: I would like to set things up so as to: map Preface Heading para to the Preface First master page, then for each subsequent left/right page apply Preface Left or Preface Right, until a Chapter Heading para is encountered, whereupon map that para to a Chapter First master page, apply it and apply subsequent Chapter Left and Right pages etc. I have the same issue with appendices, but you get the idea. As you have found you, automatic mater pages map to para tags. Leaving aside the SP tool, which is about the only one of their products I don't yet use, you have two choices: . Create unique tags wherever you need unique pages (bad) . Set up the left/right master pages to be specific to book sections (better) I don't personally like the idea of keeping every master page in every book section, but it does get around the danger of importing the wrong master pages by accident. This whole area is even more of a problem when you are trying to set up a structured FrameMaker book for round-tripping, but fortunately that's an issue you don't have to contend with. I'd be interested to hear if higher-kyu FrameMaker masters than a mere blue belt like me have any more elegant or ingenious methods. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Automating the application of Master Pages
Dear Framers I've just been looking into the automatic Apply Master Pages functionality in FM7.0 for the first time. I'm using unstructured FM on WinXP. I maintain multi-chapter books where each book component uses the same template and all possible master pages are defined in the template. Hitherto I've assigned master pages manually and I'm happy enough to do that, but as I had a bit of spare time yesterday I thought I'd see briefly whether I could set up the Apply Master Pages functionality to automatically set all my different master pages appropriately. I've never tried it before as the manual approach is not a huge overhead for me. But from an initial look I don't think I can make it do exactly what I want. For example, I have a Preface chapter prior to the main Chapters. There are master pages for, say, Preface First, Preface Right and Preface Left, which differ from the master pages used in standard Chapters. The first page of the Preface is distinguished by a unique para tag in the heading, so I can map that to the appropriate master page. But the subsequent preface pages do not differ in terms of tags used from subsequent pages in a normal chapter. What makes them preface pages is purely that they follow on from a preface front page until the end of the preface file. No unique tag on the page marks it as a preface page and the same tags can appear on chapter pages. I would like to set things up so as to: map Preface Heading para to the Preface First master page, then for each subsequent left/right page apply Preface Left or Preface Right, until a Chapter Heading para is encountered, whereupon map that para to a Chapter First master page, apply it and apply subsequent Chapter Left and Right pages etc. I have the same issue with appendices, but you get the idea. I think in theory that it would only work if I cloned and renamed a para that would appear on each preface page after the first, and mapped that with an Until Changed range indicator, and similar for chapter pages. But I'd prefer to just keep doing the master pages manually than proliferate para tags. I looked on the web at the documentation for the Silicon Prairie Master Page Tools, which looked more promising, as you can use a marker to indicate the appropriate master page mapping in situations where you can't rely on the presence of a particular para tag. But I would still have to maintain the markers, and my interpretation of the documentation was that that I would have to have a marker tag on each page that couldn't be mapped to a para (i.e. I wouldn't be able to put a marker tag on the second preface page only but have it apply appropriate preface left and right pages for all subsequent pages until a different master page trigger is encountered). Again, probably less effort to just apply the pages manually. I do have FrameScript so another option would be to write a script to suit my circumstances if I really really wanted to. I thought I'd run it by this list to see whether a) with my limited time and knowledge I've correctly interpreted how FM's Apply Master Pages and Silicon Prairie's Master Page Tools operate, and b) how anybody else might automate this requirement. Like I said, it's not a major issue for me, but I'm sure that it can't be such a rare requirement. Regards, Alex Wilowska
Automating the application of Master Pages
At 11:08 +0100 4/5/07, Alexandra Wilowska wrote: >I would like to set things up so as to: map Preface Heading para to the >Preface First master page, then for each subsequent left/right page apply >Preface Left or Preface Right, until a Chapter Heading para is encountered, >whereupon map that para to a Chapter First master page, apply it and apply >subsequent Chapter Left and Right pages etc. I have the same issue with >appendices, but you get the idea. As you have found you, automatic mater pages map to para tags. Leaving aside the SP tool, which is about the only one of their products I don't yet use, you have two choices: . Create unique tags wherever you need unique pages (bad) . Set up the left/right master pages to be specific to book sections (better) I don't personally like the idea of keeping every master page in every book section, but it does get around the danger of importing the wrong master pages by accident. This whole area is even more of a problem when you are trying to set up a structured FrameMaker book for round-tripping, but fortunately that's an issue you don't have to contend with. I'd be interested to hear if higher-kyu FrameMaker masters than a mere blue belt like me have any more elegant or ingenious methods. -- Steve
Automating the application of Master Pages
Hi Alexandra, I don't favor the Preface Right / Preface Left approach to master pages. It is better to have a separate Preface template with the appropriate default Left/Right master pages. The main reason is that only blank default master pages at the end of the document are deleted when the document is saved. Additionally, when new content is added to the document, the correct master pages are always applied. While it seems appealing to have a single template, the trade off is more work making sure that the correct master pages are applied. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > Dear Framers > > I've just been looking into the automatic Apply Master Pages functionality > in FM7.0 for the first time. I'm using unstructured FM on WinXP. > > > > I maintain multi-chapter books where each book component uses the same > template and all possible master pages are defined in the template. > Hitherto > I've assigned master pages manually and I'm happy enough to do that, but > as > I had a bit of spare time yesterday I thought I'd see briefly whether I > could set up the Apply Master Pages functionality to automatically set all > my different master pages appropriately. I've never tried it before as the > manual approach is not a huge overhead for me. But from an initial look I > don't think I can make it do exactly what I want. > > > > For example, I have a Preface chapter prior to the main Chapters. There > are > master pages for, say, Preface First, Preface Right and Preface Left, > which > differ from the master pages used in standard Chapters. The first page of > the Preface is distinguished by a unique para tag in the heading, so I can > map that to the appropriate master page. But the subsequent preface pages > do > not differ in terms of tags used from subsequent pages in a normal > chapter. > What makes them preface pages is purely that they follow on from a preface > front page until the end of the preface file. No unique tag on the page > marks it as a preface page and the same tags can appear on chapter pages. > I > would like to set things up so as to: map Preface Heading para to the > Preface First master page, then for each subsequent left/right page apply > Preface Left or Preface Right, until a Chapter Heading para is > encountered, > whereupon map that para to a Chapter First master page, apply it and apply > subsequent Chapter Left and Right pages etc. I have the same issue with > appendices, but you get the idea. > > > > I think in theory that it would only work if I cloned and renamed a para > that would appear on each preface page after the first, and mapped that > with > an Until Changed range indicator, and similar for chapter pages. But I'd > prefer to just keep doing the master pages manually than proliferate para > tags. > > > > I looked on the web at the documentation for the Silicon Prairie Master > Page > Tools, which looked more promising, as you can use a marker to indicate > the > appropriate master page mapping in situations where you can't rely on the > presence of a particular para tag. But I would still have to maintain the > markers, and my interpretation of the documentation was that that I would > have to have a marker tag on each page that couldn't be mapped to a para > (i.e. I wouldn't be able to put a marker tag on the second preface page > only > but have it apply appropriate preface left and right pages for all > subsequent pages until a different master page trigger is encountered). > Again, probably less effort to just apply the pages manually. > > > > I do have FrameScript so another option would be to write a script to suit > my circumstances if I really really wanted to. > > > > I thought I'd run it by this list to see whether a) with my limited time > and > knowledge I've correctly interpreted how FM's Apply Master Pages and > Silicon > Prairie's Master Page Tools operate, and b) how anybody else might > automate > this requirement. Like I said, it's not a major issue for me, but I'm sure > that it can't be such a rare requirement. > > > > Regards, > > > > Alex Wilowska
