Learning curve for FrameMaker
Listers: I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from scratch? I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the features of structured FrameMaker. Sincerely, David Chinell
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Hi David, In my opinion, itt should not take you more than a month to be hands on. Thanks Debashish On 4/29/08, Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) wrote: > > Listers: > > I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any > experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. > > I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, > and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical > publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and > FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker > templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to > speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than > harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from > scratch? > > I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print > publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the > features of structured FrameMaker. > > Sincerely, > > David Chinell > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as dghosh at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dghosh%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Hi David: I'm in the same situation as you. I'm well versed in Word, and have just started learning FrameMaker. I've been working with someone else's FrameMaker templates for four months now. The learning curve for me is fairly steep, but mostly because FrameMaker is conceptually different than Word. Learning the commands is easy, but learning that the commands exist has been much more difficult. FrameMaker isn't very intuitive and consists of many layers (body pages, master pages, and reference pages, for instance) to make even the simplest document function. It took me about three weeks of playing around with the templates, reading FrameMaker information on the web, and asking questions to this group before I felt comfortable redesigning the templates. I still don't know how to do basic tasks, like making an autogenerated file (TOC, LOT) look like what I want it to look like, but I can troubleshoot the existing templates when they act up. So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now (four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three other people have been using it longer than I have. Deirdre On 4/28/08, Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) wrote: > Listers: > > I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any > experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. > > I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, > and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical > publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and > FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker > templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to > speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than > harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from > scratch? > > I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print > publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the > features of structured FrameMaker. > > Sincerely, > > David Chinell > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as deirdre.reagan at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Learning curve for FrameMaker
David, I think Deirdre, especially since she is a new user, nailed it. FrameMaker is much, much more versatile than Word for long documents. More of the underlying control is exposed and available to you. The FrameMaker documentation has never been as useful to me as having a guru on call. My suggestions: Dive into a low-risk project. Do not hesitate to post questions to this forum. Remember that your Word skills may not transfer directly, but the general problem-solving, formatting, creative skills will. ...regards, Kelly. > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan > Sent: 2008-04-29 08:25 > To: Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > > Hi David: > > I'm in the same situation as you. I'm well versed in Word, and have > just started learning FrameMaker. I've been working with someone > else's FrameMaker templates for four months now. The learning curve > for me is fairly steep, but mostly because FrameMaker is conceptually > different than Word. Learning the commands is easy, but learning that > the commands exist has been much more difficult. > > FrameMaker isn't very intuitive and consists of many layers (body > pages, master pages, and reference pages, for instance) to make even > the simplest document function. > > It took me about three weeks of playing around with the templates, > reading FrameMaker information on the web, and asking questions to > this group before I felt comfortable redesigning the templates. I > still don't know how to do basic tasks, like making an autogenerated > file (TOC, LOT) look like what I want it to look like, but I can > troubleshoot the existing templates when they act up. > > So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now > (four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three > other people have been using it longer than I have. > > Deirdre > > > > > > > On 4/28/08, Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) wrote: > > Listers: > > > > I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any > > experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. > > > > I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, > > and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical > > publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and > > FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker > > templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. > > > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to > > speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than > > harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from > > scratch? > > > > I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print > > publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the > > features of structured FrameMaker. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > David Chinell > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as deirdre.reagan at gmail.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gma il.com > > > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as kmcdaniel at pavtech.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/kmcdaniel%40pavtech. com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Learning curve for FrameMaker
At 08:25 -0500 29/4/08, Deirdre Reagan wrote: >So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now >(four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three >other people have been using it longer than I have. Sarah O'Keefe and Sheila Loring's book 'FrameMaker 7: Publishing Fundamentals' is a worthwhile investment in my view. -- Steve
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Ditto that! Excellent resource. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:41 AM To: Deirdre Reagan Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker At 08:25 -0500 29/4/08, Deirdre Reagan wrote: >So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now >(four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three >other people have been using it longer than I have. Sarah O'Keefe and Sheila Loring's book 'FrameMaker 7: Publishing Fundamentals' is a worthwhile investment in my view. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jim.pinkham at voith.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jim.pinkham%40voith. com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Learning curve for FrameMaker
> FrameMaker isn't very intuitive and consists of many layers (body > pages, master pages, and reference pages, for instance) to make even > the simplest document function. Word isn't intuitive either. No software is. "Familiar" is a more accurate term. If you've developed running headers and footers, different headers and footers for first-page, left-pages, and right-pages, references to bookmarks (cross-references in FM), tables of contents, indexes, paragraph and character styles (formats in FM), tables, self-maintaining numbered lists using field codes, hidden text (conditional text in FM), footnotes, in Word, to adjust best in FrameMaker, think of these tasks and features as descriptions of what you want to do, and what you want to see in the finished document on screen, PDF, or paper, rather than think of how you do them in Word. Then, check for the descriptive terms in the online Help and definitely get the FM 7 book recommended on this thread. One major difference between Word and FM is the use of multiple individual files to create a "book" project. Unless Word has changed recently, it uses the fragile and unreliable Master Document approach, which concatenates all sub-documents in to a single one. A FrameMaker book is a list of names of the component files and instructions on how to process them - continue or restart page and list numbering in each file, etc. (Interestingly, Word for DOS, and early Word for Windows/Mac versions, used a similar technique - field codes in a "container" document that referred to the independent component files without concatenating them, and provided processing instructions. Sometime after Word moved to the Master Document, this was dropped. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices
Learning curve for FrameMaker
If you can find a copy of FrameMaker 5 (e-bay, Craig's List, etc.) buy it for the manual; I still have the book (approx 700 pages) and it clearly explains a great deal of how Frame works: lots of info about master pages; reference pages; generating and formatting Tables of Contents, Indices, Lists of Of course, features added later won't be covered, but the background understanding this provides is fantastic. FM 5.5 also included a fairly substantial manual (but it was slightly smaller than the 5.0 edition) and subsequent versions have been progressively smaller with more info moved to online help - but that often means you must understand how the creator chose to indentify and index it. While that is also true for the books, information always seemed readily accessible in the paper copies to me. On Tuesday, April 29, 2008 09:41 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote: | At 08:25 -0500 29/4/08, Deirdre Reagan wrote: | | > So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm | > now (four months into it) considered the office expert, even though | > three other people have been using it longer than I have. | | Sarah O'Keefe and Sheila Loring's book 'FrameMaker 7: Publishing | Fundamentals' is a worthwhile investment in my view. | | -- | Steve - Lester --- Lester C. Smalley Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com Information Consultants, Inc. Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712 Yorklyn, DE 19736 Web: www.infocon.com ---
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, there are loads of them and many people use them often. Framers, is that correct? Deirdre
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are very handy. I use quite a few. There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using FrameScript. ~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC lindag at techcomplus dot com www.techcomplus.com 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 User guides, online help, FrameMaker and WebWorks ePublisher templates -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, there are loads of them and many people use them often. Framers, is that correct? Deirdre ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as lindag at techcomplus.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Learning curve for FrameMaker
For a comprehensive list of FrameMaker plugins and many Framescripts, visit .. http://leximation.com/toolsearch/ ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 Linda G. Gallagher wrote: > Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are very handy. > I use quite a few. > > There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more > customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using > FrameScript. > > > ~ > Linda G. Gallagher > TechCom Plus, LLC > lindag at techcomplus dot com > www.techcomplus.com > 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 > User guides, online help, FrameMaker and > WebWorks ePublisher templates > > > > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > > Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are > these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and > use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose > correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, > there are loads of them and many people use them often. > > Framers, is that correct? > > Deirdre > >
Learning curve for FrameMaker
At 11:00 -0400 29/4/08, Lester C. Smalley wrote: >If you can find a copy of FrameMaker 5 (e-bay, Craig's List, etc.) buy >it for the manual; I still have the book (approx 700 pages) and it >clearly explains a great deal of how Frame works: lots of info about >master pages; reference pages; generating and formatting Tables of >Contents, Indices, Lists of Of course, features added later won't >be covered, but the background understanding this provides is fantastic. Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the Frame 5 manual was the last to be produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it is a lot better than the current offering (although I've not seen a FrameMaker 8 manual.) FrameMaker is a big, big application, and like others such as as Photoshop and Illustrator, can take a long time to master. It is certainly an application for which it is worth spending money on training material, which should give you the advantage of learning to do things correctly from day 1. I speak from experience: I first used FrameMaker in '91 and I learned by muddling through: I did it wrong. Come to think of it, I think I've still got a set of FrameMaker 3 manuals in the loft, and from memory that ran to several volumes... -- Steve
Learning curve for FrameMaker
The learning curve for FrameMaker can be steep or relatively shallow, but it depends how how deep you involve yourself and whether its an avocation or a full-time effort. My recommendations: 1. Go for it with intensity and determination; dabbling won't work. 2. Get the previously recommended book by O'Keefe. It's extremely good. 3. Find and use a copy of Classroom in a Book for FrameMaker 7. eBay, Amazon and Abebooks.com are places to look for used copies. See eBay item No. 310027856687, for example. 4. Join the Adobe FrameMaker forum and follow the FrameUser's mail list. Read every posting whose topic is of conceivable interest. Begin contributing as soon as you feel like you can answer someone else's question. Post your own questions after trying your best to figure them out for yourself. 5. Find another user in the same boat or one in a slightly larger ship. Trade experiences and share knowledge to accelerate your understanding as well as theirs. Don't get discouraged. It may take several weeks to a month to get to where you fathom the program and can use it with some degree of self-confidence, six months until you feel pretty comfortable with it and it may be one or two years (or more) before you consider yourself a guru. Once you understand the basic concepts, you'll find that the basic features are very intuitive and logical. Dennis Brunnenmeyer Cedar Ridge Systems *** At 02:17 PM 4/29/2008, Linda G. Gallagher wrote: >Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are very handy. >I use quite a few. > >There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more >customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using >FrameScript. > > >~ >Linda G. Gallagher >TechCom Plus, LLC >lindag at techcomplus dot com >www.techcomplus.com >303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 >User guides, online help, FrameMaker and >WebWorks ePublisher templates > > > > >-Original Message- >From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com >[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan >Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM >To: framers at lists.frameusers.com >Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > >Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are >these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and >use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose >correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, >there are loads of them and many people use them often. > >Framers, is that correct? > >Deirdre >___ > > >You are currently subscribed to Framers as lindag at techcomplus.com. > >Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >or visit >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com > >Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >___ > > >You are currently subscribed to Framers as dennisb at chronometrics.com. > >Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >or visit >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dennisb%40chronometrics.com > >Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Dennis Brunnenmeyer Director of Engineering CEDAR RIDGE SYSTEMS 15019 Rattlesnake Road Grass Valley, CA 95945-8710 Office: (530) 477-9015 Fax: (530) 477-9085 Mobile: (530) 320-9025 eMail: dennisb /at/ chronometrics /dot/ com
Learning curve for FrameMaker
I found the Framemaker manual to be very confusing at first. It was not until I used the program and figured out things myself did the manual then make more sense. Now the manual is the first place I go and can now make sense of what is being explained. Scott White Media Production Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swhite at alamark.com On Apr 29, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer wrote: > The learning curve for FrameMaker can be steep or relatively shallow, > but it depends how how deep you involve yourself and whether its an > avocation or a full-time effort. My recommendations: > > 1. Go for it with intensity and determination; dabbling won't work. > 2. Get the previously recommended book by O'Keefe. It's extremely > good. > 3. Find and use a copy of Classroom in a Book for FrameMaker 7. eBay, > Amazon and Abebooks.com are places to look for used copies. See eBay > item No. 310027856687, for example. > 4. Join the Adobe FrameMaker forum and follow the FrameUser's mail > list. Read every posting whose topic is of conceivable interest. > Begin contributing as soon as you feel like you can answer someone > else's question. Post your own questions after trying your best to > figure them out for yourself. > 5. Find another user in the same boat or one in a slightly larger > ship. Trade experiences and share knowledge to accelerate your > understanding as well as theirs. > > Don't get discouraged. It may take several weeks to a month to get to > where you fathom the program and can use it with some degree of > self-confidence, six months until you feel pretty comfortable with it > and it may be one or two years (or more) before you consider > yourself a guru. > > Once you understand the basic concepts, you'll find that the basic > features are very intuitive and logical. > > Dennis Brunnenmeyer > Cedar Ridge Systems > *** > At 02:17 PM 4/29/2008, Linda G. Gallagher wrote: >> Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are >> very handy. >> I use quite a few. >> >> There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more >> customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using >> FrameScript. >> >> >> ~ >> Linda G. Gallagher >> TechCom Plus, LLC >> lindag at techcomplus dot com >> www.techcomplus.com >> 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 >> User guides, online help, FrameMaker and >> WebWorks ePublisher templates >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com >> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Deirdre >> Reagan >> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM >> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com >> Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker >> >> Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are >> these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and >> use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose >> correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, >> there are loads of them and many people use them often. >> >> Framers, is that correct? >> >> Deirdre >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as lindag at techcomplus.com. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as dennisb at chronometrics.com. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dennisb%40chronometrics.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > Dennis Brunnenmeyer > Director of Engineering > CEDAR RIDGE SYSTEMS > 15019 Rattlesnake Road > Grass Valley, CA 95945-8710 > Office: (530) 477-9015 > Fax: (530) 477-9085 > Mobile: (530) 320-9025 > eMail: dennisb /at/ chronometrics /dot/ com > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as swhite at alamark.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/swhite%40alamark.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >
Learning curve for FrameMaker
We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. Pedantically yours, Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 --
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Dennis and Scott make great points. I found the Adobe FrameMaker Classroom In A Book to be a great introduction, but it wasn't really until I started converting Word docs to FM docs and creating templates that I started to feel comfy working in the FM environment. One important thing for newbies with Word background to note is that the multi-undo in FrameMaker gets reset a lot by stuff that you can normally undo in Word. The only thing I'd advise is, don't be afraid to try any hairy idea...just be sure to try it on a COPY that you can scrap before doing it on the "real" project files. ;-) ONWARD! :-) Rene L. Stephenson - Original Message From: Scott White To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:08:57 AM Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker I found the Framemaker manual to be very confusing at first. It was not until I used the program and figured out things myself did the manual then make more sense. Now the manual is the first place I go and can now make sense of what is being explained. Scott White Media Production Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swhite at alamark.com On Apr 29, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer wrote: > The learning curve for FrameMaker can be steep or relatively shallow, > but it depends how how deep you involve yourself and whether its an > avocation or a full-time effort. My recommendations: > > 1. Go for it with intensity and determination; dabbling won't work. > 2. Get the previously recommended book by O'Keefe. It's extremely > good. > 3. Find and use a copy of Classroom in a Book for FrameMaker 7. eBay, > Amazon and Abebooks.com are places to look for used copies. See eBay > item No. 310027856687, for example. > 4. Join the Adobe FrameMaker forum and follow the FrameUser's mail > list. Read every posting whose topic is of conceivable interest. > Begin contributing as soon as you feel like you can answer someone > else's question. Post your own questions after trying your best to > figure them out for yourself. > 5. Find another user in the same boat or one in a slightly larger > ship. Trade experiences and share knowledge to accelerate your > understanding as well as theirs. > > Don't get discouraged. It may take several weeks to a month to get to > where you fathom the program and can use it with some degree of > self-confidence, six months until you feel pretty comfortable with it > and it may be one or two years (or more) before you consider > yourself a guru. > > Once you understand the basic concepts, you'll find that the basic > features are very intuitive and logical. > > Dennis Brunnenmeyer > Cedar Ridge Systems > *** > At 02:17 PM 4/29/2008, Linda G. Gallagher wrote: >> Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are >> very handy. >> I use quite a few. >> >> There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more >> customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using >> FrameScript. >> >> >> ~ >> Linda G. Gallagher >> TechCom Plus, LLC >> lindag at techcomplus dot com >> www.techcomplus.com >> 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 >> User guides, online help, FrameMaker and >> WebWorks ePublisher templates >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com >> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Deirdre >> Reagan >> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM >> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com >> Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker >> >> Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are >> these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and >> use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose >> correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, >> there are loads of them and many people use them often. >> >> Framers, is that correct? >> >> Deirdre >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as lindag at techcomplus.com. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frame
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Perhaps you meant "Editorially yours"...? LOL! You're priceless, Richard. :-) Rene L. StephensonThere's no such thing as "good writing"?only good revising. - Original Message From: "Combs, Richard" To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:57:35 AM Subject: RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. Pedantically yours, Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Thank you for that lesson, Richard. I had no idea. Deirdre On 4/30/08, Combs, Richard wrote: > We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing > to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? > > A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y > axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long > time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. > > Pedantically yours, > Richard > > > -- > Richard G. Combs > Senior Technical Writer > Polycom, Inc. > richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom > 303-223-5111 > -- > rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom > 303-777-0436 > -- > > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as deirdre.reagan at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Learning curve for FrameMaker
As usual .. an interesting writeup on this in Wikipedia .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve Apparently there is some disagreement over this one [according to the author]. Cheers! ...scott Deirdre Reagan wrote: > Thank you for that lesson, Richard. I had no idea. > > Deirdre > > On 4/30/08, Combs, Richard wrote: > >> We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing >> to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? >> >> A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y >> axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long >> time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. >> >> Pedantically yours, >> Richard >> >> >> -- >> Richard G. Combs >> Senior Technical Writer >> Polycom, Inc. >> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom >> 303-223-5111 >> -- >> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom >> 303-777-0436 >> -- >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as deirdre.reagan at gmail.com. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gmail.com >> >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> >> > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as sp at leximation.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sp%40leximation.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >
Learning curve for FrameMaker
> Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the Frame > 5 manual was the last to be > produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it is > a lot better than the current > offering (although I've not seen a FrameMaker 8 manual.) The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for convenience). Mike Wickham
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Maybe the should outsource the manual to someone on this list. ;-) Rene L. Stephenson - Original Message From: Mike Wickham To: Lester C. Smalley ; framers at frameusers.com; Steve Rickaby Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:00:10 PM Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the Frame > 5 manual was the last to be > produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it is > a lot better than the current > offering (although I've not seen a FrameMaker 8 manual.) The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for convenience). Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Search the Web for "generative understanding" and "generative learning." The problem with the common time vs. attempts vs. progress learning curve model is that it's applied to a single simple task. It "charts" very well, but it's not a reliable model outside a lab experiment. Generative understanding and generative learning view learning as complex tasks in which forward progress can be set back when a new component is introduced, until the new task is mastered, and the new mastery is integrated with the older existing skills. Consider learning to juggle. One ball in one hand is easy. One ball in two hands is easy. Two balls in one hand is a bit harder. Two balls in two hands is a bit harder. Three balls in one hand and three balls in two hands is a lot harder - a big jump, even though this task is comprised of the two simpler, previously mastered, tasks. The easy way to measure progress is by adding balls to the juggle and counting how many hit the floor (assuming gravity exists). Plotting the progress is a mixture of starting points, gains, plateaus, setbacks when new challenges are added, lather, rinse, and repeat. Learning FrameMaker is really about learning how documents are constructed and published. You learn to juggle a letter, word, phrase, sentence, and paragraph. Then you juggle controlling the appearance of each of these items separately in a systematic and consistent way - character/font appearance properties and named formats/styles. Then you juggle them together spatially - space between letters, between words, between paragraphs; starting position on page, in frame, in column, across columns; keep with next and previous. Then you juggle the prefix decorations - bullets and numbers. Then you juggle the stage on which they appear - left/right/custom page master pages. Etc. Reread this paragraph substituting "Word," "InDesign," or other tool for "FrameMaker." It's not the tool, it's the process. It's an Industrial Revolution assembly-line manufacturing process applied to information rather than physical objects. You make standardized interchangeable parts (styles/formats), apply them to content/concept building blocks (headings, paragraphs, lists), and build them into larger components (sections, chapters, books.) Because they're standardized, you can rely on them to behave uniformly and reliably in standard situations. FrameMaker's very good at this; Word's been known to be fragile in some parts of its process. HTH Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices
Learning curve for FrameMaker
And I think we've reached the other end of this conversation. Ok, pretty sure that 1) I wasn't talking about charts and graphs. 2) I was using an expression -- an idiom! -- to articulate my opinion. 3) While curves and charts and graphs do have technical meaning, that meaning doesn't take precedence in the idiomatic usage. 4) Every.single.person on this list knew exactly what I meant. Everyone is very smart and everyone knows their language usage super well and we can all agree that the expression is based on an erroneous understanding of charts and graphs, and you know what? FrameMaker's learning curve is still steep. Deirdre
Learning curve for FrameMaker
ps I forgot to stick out my tongue at the end of that message. *pleeebt* Deirdre /rant On 4/30/08, Deirdre Reagan wrote: > And I think we've reached the other end of this conversation. > > Ok, pretty sure that 1) I wasn't talking about charts and graphs. 2) > I was using an expression -- an idiom! -- to articulate my opinion. > 3) While curves and charts and graphs do have technical meaning, that > meaning doesn't take precedence in the idiomatic usage. 4) > Every.single.person on this list knew exactly what I meant. > > Everyone is very smart and everyone knows their language usage super > well and we can all agree that the expression is based on an erroneous > understanding of charts and graphs, and you know what? > > FrameMaker's learning curve is still steep. > > Deirdre >
Learning curve for FrameMaker
>>The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't one-- at least, no >>hard copy is included or sold >>separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and >>bind yourself, but sheesh. It's >>over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking >>about sending it off to a POD >>printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for >>convenience). > So there is no proper hyperlinked online guide either? Yes, there's online help, but it's nice to have a book you can read away from the computer. Also, the help files that come with various Adobe programs are not (in my opinion) well done. There have been countless times when I've been unable to find simple items in help. For example, you would think that every menu item, or dialogue box option would be covered in help. They often are not. Or, at least, search cannot find them. Of course, these same terms are usually lacking from the indexes in the printed manuals, too. Mike Wickham
Learning curve for FrameMaker
One of the best books for FrameMaker that I have in my collection is: The Masters Series: FrameMaker 6 by Thomas Neuburger. You can order this from Amazon or http://www.twelfthnight.com/. Even though it does not cover 7 or 8 you will get a LOT of use out of this one. Z Mike Wickham wrote: > >>The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't one-- at least, no > >>hard copy is included or sold > >>separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and > >>bind yourself, but sheesh. It's > >>over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking > >>about sending it off to a POD > >>printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for > >>convenience). > > > So there is no proper hyperlinked online guide either? > > Yes, there's online help, but it's nice to have a book you can read away > from the computer. Also, the help files that come with various Adobe > programs are not (in my opinion) well done. There have been countless times > when I've been unable to find simple items in help. For example, you would > think that every menu item, or dialogue box option would be covered in help. > They often are not. Or, at least, search cannot find them. Of course, these > same terms are usually lacking from the indexes in the printed manuals, too. > > Mike Wickham > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as azdunczyk at triad.rr.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/azdunczyk%40triad.rr.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Learning curve for FrameMaker
> > So there is no proper hyperlinked online guide either? > > Yes, there's online help, but it's nice to have a book you can read away > from the computer. Also, the help files that come with various Adobe > programs are not (in my opinion) well done. There have been countless times > when I've been unable to find simple items in help. For example, you would > think that every menu item, or dialogue box option would be covered in help. > They often are not. Or, at least, search cannot find them. Of course, these > same terms are usually lacking from the indexes in the printed manuals, too. Have you tried using the Catalog feature of full Acrobat to create an index of the PDF version of the User Guide? You can use Search in Acrobat or Reader to find text in an indexed PDF much faster than using Find. HTH Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Of course, they should. But (tying this to another thread) if FrameUsers.com ever came back, perhaps we could start a list-members-only wiki. I mean, who better than us to start such a thing? Mike McCallister -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rene Stephenson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:30 PM To: Mike Wickham; Lester C. Smalley; framers at frameusers.com; Steve Rickaby Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker Maybe the should outsource the manual to someone on this list. ;-) Rene L. Stephenson - Original Message From: Mike Wickham To: Lester C. Smalley ; framers at frameusers.com; Steve Rickaby Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:00:10 PM Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the > Frame > 5 manual was the last to be > produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it > is a lot better than the current offering (although I've not seen a > FrameMaker 8 manual.) The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for convenience). Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as Michael.McCallister at ge.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/michael.mccallister% 40ge.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Though I don't know the release detail, Kay Whatley and Bernard Ashwanden (Bright Path Solutions) both have books coming out very soon. I believe they cover structured Frame in general and DITA specifics. I reviewed the gallies at the FrameMaker Chautauqua and they appear to be promising step-by-step books! Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 > Of course, they should. But (tying this to another thread) if > FrameUsers.com ever came back, perhaps we could start a > list-members-only wiki. I mean, who better than us to start such a > thing? > > Mike McCallister > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rene > Stephenson > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:30 PM > To: Mike Wickham; Lester C. Smalley; framers at frameusers.com; Steve > Rickaby > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > > Maybe the should outsource the manual to someone on this list. ;-) > > > Rene L. Stephenson > > > > > - Original Message > From: Mike Wickham > To: Lester C. Smalley ; framers at frameusers.com; > Steve Rickaby > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:00:10 PM > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > >> Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the >> Frame >> 5 manual was the last to be >> produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it > >> is a lot better than the current offering (although I've not seen a >> FrameMaker 8 manual.) > > The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no > hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on > the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 > pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about > sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into > two volumes for convenience). > > Mike Wickham > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as Michael.McCallister at ge.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/michael.mccallister% > 40ge.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as mollye at clearpath.cc. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mollye%40clearpath.cc > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378
Learning curve for FrameMaker
At 18:31 -0400 30/4/08, wrote: >One of the best books for FrameMaker that I have in my collection is: The >Masters Series: FrameMaker 6 by Thomas Neuburger. You can order this from >Amazon or http://www.twelfthnight.com/. Even though it does not cover 7 or 8 >you will get a LOT of use out of this one. Yes, this does look like a promising book. Odd therefore that the author has not updated it. Maybe other things got in the way. -- Steve
Learning curve for FrameMaker
Listers: I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from scratch? I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the features of structured FrameMaker. Sincerely, David Chinell ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Hi David, In my opinion, itt should not take you more than a month to be hands on. Thanks Debashish On 4/29/08, Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Listers: > > I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any > experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. > > I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, > and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical > publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and > FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker > templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to > speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than > harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from > scratch? > > I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print > publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the > features of structured FrameMaker. > > Sincerely, > > David Chinell > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dghosh%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Hi David: I'm in the same situation as you. I'm well versed in Word, and have just started learning FrameMaker. I've been working with someone else's FrameMaker templates for four months now. The learning curve for me is fairly steep, but mostly because FrameMaker is conceptually different than Word. Learning the commands is easy, but learning that the commands exist has been much more difficult. FrameMaker isn't very intuitive and consists of many layers (body pages, master pages, and reference pages, for instance) to make even the simplest document function. It took me about three weeks of playing around with the templates, reading FrameMaker information on the web, and asking questions to this group before I felt comfortable redesigning the templates. I still don't know how to do basic tasks, like making an autogenerated file (TOC, LOT) look like what I want it to look like, but I can troubleshoot the existing templates when they act up. So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now (four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three other people have been using it longer than I have. Deirdre On 4/28/08, Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Listers: > > I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any > experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. > > I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, > and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical > publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and > FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker > templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to > speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than > harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from > scratch? > > I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print > publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the > features of structured FrameMaker. > > Sincerely, > > David Chinell > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
David, I think Deirdre, especially since she is a new user, nailed it. FrameMaker is much, much more versatile than Word for long documents. More of the underlying control is exposed and available to you. The FrameMaker documentation has never been as useful to me as having a guru on call. My suggestions: Dive into a low-risk project. Do not hesitate to post questions to this forum. Remember that your Word skills may not transfer directly, but the general problem-solving, formatting, creative skills will. ...regards, Kelly. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan > Sent: 2008-04-29 08:25 > To: Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) > Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > > Hi David: > > I'm in the same situation as you. I'm well versed in Word, and have > just started learning FrameMaker. I've been working with someone > else's FrameMaker templates for four months now. The learning curve > for me is fairly steep, but mostly because FrameMaker is conceptually > different than Word. Learning the commands is easy, but learning that > the commands exist has been much more difficult. > > FrameMaker isn't very intuitive and consists of many layers (body > pages, master pages, and reference pages, for instance) to make even > the simplest document function. > > It took me about three weeks of playing around with the templates, > reading FrameMaker information on the web, and asking questions to > this group before I felt comfortable redesigning the templates. I > still don't know how to do basic tasks, like making an autogenerated > file (TOC, LOT) look like what I want it to look like, but I can > troubleshoot the existing templates when they act up. > > So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now > (four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three > other people have been using it longer than I have. > > Deirdre > > > > > > > On 4/28/08, Chinell, David F (GE EntSol, Security) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Listers: > > > > I apologize in advance for asking an admittedly vague question, but any > > experiences or information you can share will be appreciated. > > > > I've focused largely on MS Word for the past fifteen years of my career, > > and have become quite adept at designing templates for technical > > publications. I'm currently in a shop that uses both Word and > > FrameMaker, and have been offered "ownership" of the FrameMaker > > templates as well. I have only the slightest experience of FrameMaker. > > > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to how long it might take me to get up to > > speed with FrameMaker, to the point of being able to do more good than > > harm with the templates I inherit for maintenance, or create from > > scratch? > > > > I can only add that we're using FrameMaker 7.0 to create print > > publications. That is, we're not using SGML or XML or any of the > > features of structured FrameMaker. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > David Chinell > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gma il.com > > > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/kmcdaniel%40pavtech. com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
At 08:25 -0500 29/4/08, Deirdre Reagan wrote: >So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now >(four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three >other people have been using it longer than I have. Sarah O'Keefe and Sheila Loring's book 'FrameMaker 7: Publishing Fundamentals' is a worthwhile investment in my view. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Ditto that! Excellent resource. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:41 AM To: Deirdre Reagan Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker At 08:25 -0500 29/4/08, Deirdre Reagan wrote: >So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm now >(four months into it) considered the office expert, even though three >other people have been using it longer than I have. Sarah O'Keefe and Sheila Loring's book 'FrameMaker 7: Publishing Fundamentals' is a worthwhile investment in my view. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jim.pinkham%40voith. com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
> FrameMaker isn't very intuitive and consists of many layers (body > pages, master pages, and reference pages, for instance) to make even > the simplest document function. Word isn't intuitive either. No software is. "Familiar" is a more accurate term. If you've developed running headers and footers, different headers and footers for first-page, left-pages, and right-pages, references to bookmarks (cross-references in FM), tables of contents, indexes, paragraph and character styles (formats in FM), tables, self-maintaining numbered lists using field codes, hidden text (conditional text in FM), footnotes, in Word, to adjust best in FrameMaker, think of these tasks and features as descriptions of what you want to do, and what you want to see in the finished document on screen, PDF, or paper, rather than think of how you do them in Word. Then, check for the descriptive terms in the online Help and definitely get the FM 7 book recommended on this thread. One major difference between Word and FM is the use of multiple individual files to create a "book" project. Unless Word has changed recently, it uses the fragile and unreliable Master Document approach, which concatenates all sub-documents in to a single one. A FrameMaker book is a list of names of the component files and instructions on how to process them - continue or restart page and list numbering in each file, etc. (Interestingly, Word for DOS, and early Word for Windows/Mac versions, used a similar technique - field codes in a "container" document that referred to the independent component files without concatenating them, and provided processing instructions. Sometime after Word moved to the Master Document, this was dropped. Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
If you can find a copy of FrameMaker 5 (e-bay, Craig's List, etc.) buy it for the manual; I still have the book (approx 700 pages) and it clearly explains a great deal of how Frame works: lots of info about master pages; reference pages; generating and formatting Tables of Contents, Indices, Lists of Of course, features added later won't be covered, but the background understanding this provides is fantastic. FM 5.5 also included a fairly substantial manual (but it was slightly smaller than the 5.0 edition) and subsequent versions have been progressively smaller with more info moved to online help - but that often means you must understand how the creator chose to indentify and index it. While that is also true for the books, information always seemed readily accessible in the paper copies to me. On Tuesday, April 29, 2008 09:41 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote: | At 08:25 -0500 29/4/08, Deirdre Reagan wrote: | | > So, for me, the curve is fairly steep. For what it's worth, I'm | > now (four months into it) considered the office expert, even though | > three other people have been using it longer than I have. | | Sarah O'Keefe and Sheila Loring's book 'FrameMaker 7: Publishing | Fundamentals' is a worthwhile investment in my view. | | -- | Steve - Lester --- Lester C. Smalley Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com Information Consultants, Inc. Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712 Yorklyn, DE 19736 Web: www.infocon.com --- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, there are loads of them and many people use them often. Framers, is that correct? Deirdre ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are very handy. I use quite a few. There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using FrameScript. ~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC lindag at techcomplus dot com www.techcomplus.com 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 User guides, online help, FrameMaker and WebWorks ePublisher templates -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, there are loads of them and many people use them often. Framers, is that correct? Deirdre ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
For a comprehensive list of FrameMaker plugins and many Framescripts, visit .. http://leximation.com/toolsearch/ ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 Linda G. Gallagher wrote: > Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are very handy. > I use quite a few. > > There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more > customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using > FrameScript. > > > ~ > Linda G. Gallagher > TechCom Plus, LLC > lindag at techcomplus dot com > www.techcomplus.com > 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 > User guides, online help, FrameMaker and > WebWorks ePublisher templates > > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > > Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are > these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and > use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose > correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, > there are loads of them and many people use them often. > > Framers, is that correct? > > Deirdre > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
At 11:00 -0400 29/4/08, Lester C. Smalley wrote: >If you can find a copy of FrameMaker 5 (e-bay, Craig's List, etc.) buy >it for the manual; I still have the book (approx 700 pages) and it >clearly explains a great deal of how Frame works: lots of info about >master pages; reference pages; generating and formatting Tables of >Contents, Indices, Lists of Of course, features added later won't >be covered, but the background understanding this provides is fantastic. Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the Frame 5 manual was the last to be produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it is a lot better than the current offering (although I've not seen a FrameMaker 8 manual.) FrameMaker is a big, big application, and like others such as as Photoshop and Illustrator, can take a long time to master. It is certainly an application for which it is worth spending money on training material, which should give you the advantage of learning to do things correctly from day 1. I speak from experience: I first used FrameMaker in '91 and I learned by muddling through: I did it wrong. Come to think of it, I think I've still got a set of FrameMaker 3 manuals in the loft, and from memory that ran to several volumes... -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
The learning curve for FrameMaker can be steep or relatively shallow, but it depends how how deep you involve yourself and whether its an avocation or a full-time effort. My recommendations: 1. Go for it with intensity and determination; dabbling won't work. 2. Get the previously recommended book by O'Keefe. It's extremely good. 3. Find and use a copy of Classroom in a Book for FrameMaker 7. eBay, Amazon and Abebooks.com are places to look for used copies. See eBay item No. 310027856687, for example. 4. Join the Adobe FrameMaker forum and follow the FrameUser's mail list. Read every posting whose topic is of conceivable interest. Begin contributing as soon as you feel like you can answer someone else's question. Post your own questions after trying your best to figure them out for yourself. 5. Find another user in the same boat or one in a slightly larger ship. Trade experiences and share knowledge to accelerate your understanding as well as theirs. Don't get discouraged. It may take several weeks to a month to get to where you fathom the program and can use it with some degree of self-confidence, six months until you feel pretty comfortable with it and it may be one or two years (or more) before you consider yourself a guru. Once you understand the basic concepts, you'll find that the basic features are very intuitive and logical. Dennis Brunnenmeyer Cedar Ridge Systems *** At 02:17 PM 4/29/2008, Linda G. Gallagher wrote: >Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are very handy. >I use quite a few. > >There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more >customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using >FrameScript. > > >~ >Linda G. Gallagher >TechCom Plus, LLC >lindag at techcomplus dot com >www.techcomplus.com >303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 >User guides, online help, FrameMaker and >WebWorks ePublisher templates > > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deirdre Reagan >Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM >To: framers@lists.frameusers.com >Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > >Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are >these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and >use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose >correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, >there are loads of them and many people use them often. > >Framers, is that correct? > >Deirdre >___ > > >You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >or visit >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com > >Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit >http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >___ > > >You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >or visit >http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dennisb%40chronometrics.com > >Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit >http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Dennis Brunnenmeyer Director of Engineering CEDAR RIDGE SYSTEMS 15019 Rattlesnake Road Grass Valley, CA 95945-8710 Office: (530) 477-9015 Fax: (530) 477-9085 Mobile: (530) 320-9025 eMail: dennisb /at/ chronometrics /dot/ com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
I found the Framemaker manual to be very confusing at first. It was not until I used the program and figured out things myself did the manual then make more sense. Now the manual is the first place I go and can now make sense of what is being explained. Scott White Media Production Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 29, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer wrote: > The learning curve for FrameMaker can be steep or relatively shallow, > but it depends how how deep you involve yourself and whether its an > avocation or a full-time effort. My recommendations: > > 1. Go for it with intensity and determination; dabbling won't work. > 2. Get the previously recommended book by O'Keefe. It's extremely > good. > 3. Find and use a copy of Classroom in a Book for FrameMaker 7. eBay, > Amazon and Abebooks.com are places to look for used copies. See eBay > item No. 310027856687, for example. > 4. Join the Adobe FrameMaker forum and follow the FrameUser's mail > list. Read every posting whose topic is of conceivable interest. > Begin contributing as soon as you feel like you can answer someone > else's question. Post your own questions after trying your best to > figure them out for yourself. > 5. Find another user in the same boat or one in a slightly larger > ship. Trade experiences and share knowledge to accelerate your > understanding as well as theirs. > > Don't get discouraged. It may take several weeks to a month to get to > where you fathom the program and can use it with some degree of > self-confidence, six months until you feel pretty comfortable with it > and it may be one or two years (or more) before you consider > yourself a guru. > > Once you understand the basic concepts, you'll find that the basic > features are very intuitive and logical. > > Dennis Brunnenmeyer > Cedar Ridge Systems > *** > At 02:17 PM 4/29/2008, Linda G. Gallagher wrote: >> Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are >> very handy. >> I use quite a few. >> >> There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more >> customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using >> FrameScript. >> >> >> ~ >> Linda G. Gallagher >> TechCom Plus, LLC >> lindag at techcomplus dot com >> www.techcomplus.com >> 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 >> User guides, online help, FrameMaker and >> WebWorks ePublisher templates >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deirdre >> Reagan >> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM >> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com >> Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker >> >> Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are >> these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and >> use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose >> correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, >> there are loads of them and many people use them often. >> >> Framers, is that correct? >> >> Deirdre >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com >> >> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dennisb%40chronometrics.com >> >> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > Dennis Brunnenmeyer > Director of Engineering > CEDAR RIDGE SYSTEMS > 15019 Rattlesnake Road > Grass Valley, CA 95945-8710 > Office: (530) 477-9015 > Fax: (530) 477-9085 > Mobile: (530) 320-9025 > eMail: dennisb /at/ chronometrics /dot/ com > ___ > > > You are currently su
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. Pedantically yours, Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Dennis and Scott make great points. I found the Adobe FrameMaker Classroom In A Book to be a great introduction, but it wasn't really until I started converting Word docs to FM docs and creating templates that I started to feel comfy working in the FM environment. One important thing for newbies with Word background to note is that the multi-undo in FrameMaker gets reset a lot by stuff that you can normally undo in Word. The only thing I'd advise is, don't be afraid to try any hairy idea...just be sure to try it on a COPY that you can scrap before doing it on the "real" project files. ;-) ONWARD! :-) Rene L. Stephenson - Original Message From: Scott White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:08:57 AM Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker I found the Framemaker manual to be very confusing at first. It was not until I used the program and figured out things myself did the manual then make more sense. Now the manual is the first place I go and can now make sense of what is being explained. Scott White Media Production Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 29, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer wrote: > The learning curve for FrameMaker can be steep or relatively shallow, > but it depends how how deep you involve yourself and whether its an > avocation or a full-time effort. My recommendations: > > 1. Go for it with intensity and determination; dabbling won't work. > 2. Get the previously recommended book by O'Keefe. It's extremely > good. > 3. Find and use a copy of Classroom in a Book for FrameMaker 7. eBay, > Amazon and Abebooks.com are places to look for used copies. See eBay > item No. 310027856687, for example. > 4. Join the Adobe FrameMaker forum and follow the FrameUser's mail > list. Read every posting whose topic is of conceivable interest. > Begin contributing as soon as you feel like you can answer someone > else's question. Post your own questions after trying your best to > figure them out for yourself. > 5. Find another user in the same boat or one in a slightly larger > ship. Trade experiences and share knowledge to accelerate your > understanding as well as theirs. > > Don't get discouraged. It may take several weeks to a month to get to > where you fathom the program and can use it with some degree of > self-confidence, six months until you feel pretty comfortable with it > and it may be one or two years (or more) before you consider > yourself a guru. > > Once you understand the basic concepts, you'll find that the basic > features are very intuitive and logical. > > Dennis Brunnenmeyer > Cedar Ridge Systems > *** > At 02:17 PM 4/29/2008, Linda G. Gallagher wrote: >> Most are called plug-ins. They extend FM's capabilities and are >> very handy. >> I use quite a few. >> >> There are also scripts that you use or create that let you do more >> customized things with your FM documents and books, usually using >> FrameScript. >> >> >> ~ >> Linda G. Gallagher >> TechCom Plus, LLC >> lindag at techcomplus dot com >> www.techcomplus.com >> 303-450-9076 or 800-500-3144 >> User guides, online help, FrameMaker and >> WebWorks ePublisher templates >> ~~~~ >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deirdre >> Reagan >> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:09 PM >> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com >> Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker >> >> Also, one other thing: FrameMaker has a lot of add-ons -- what are >> these called? Scripts that peope have written that you can buy and >> use with the program. I think I am understanding their purpose >> correctly. The equivalent of a macro in Word, I believe. Anyway, >> there are loads of them and many people use them often. >> >> Framers, is that correct? >> >> Deirdre >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com >> >> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> >> _
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Perhaps you meant "Editorially yours"...? LOL! You're priceless, Richard. :-) Rene L. StephensonThere's no such thing as "good writing"—only good revising. - Original Message From: "Combs, Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:57:35 AM Subject: RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. Pedantically yours, Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Thank you for that lesson, Richard. I had no idea. Deirdre On 4/30/08, Combs, Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing > to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? > > A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y > axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long > time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. > > Pedantically yours, > Richard > > > -- > Richard G. Combs > Senior Technical Writer > Polycom, Inc. > richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom > 303-223-5111 > -- > rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom > 303-777-0436 > -- > > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
As usual .. an interesting writeup on this in Wikipedia .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve Apparently there is some disagreement over this one [according to the author]. Cheers! ...scott Deirdre Reagan wrote: > Thank you for that lesson, Richard. I had no idea. > > Deirdre > > On 4/30/08, Combs, Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> We're professional communicators, right? Can we please stop contributing >> to the misuse and misunderstanding of "learning curve"? >> >> A steep learning curve is one on which you acquire lots of knowledge (Y >> axis) in a short period of time (X axis). Something that takes a long >> time to learn has a shallow (or long) learning curve. >> >> Pedantically yours, >> Richard >> >> >> -- >> Richard G. Combs >> Senior Technical Writer >> Polycom, Inc. >> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom >> 303-223-5111 >> -- >> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom >> 303-777-0436 >> -- >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> or visit >> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/deirdre.reagan%40gmail.com >> >> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >> >> > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sp%40leximation.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
> Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the Frame > 5 manual was the last to be > produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it is > a lot better than the current > offering (although I've not seen a FrameMaker 8 manual.) The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for convenience). Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Maybe the should outsource the manual to someone on this list. ;-) Rene L. Stephenson - Original Message From: Mike Wickham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Lester C. Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steve Rickaby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:00:10 PM Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the Frame > 5 manual was the last to be > produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it is > a lot better than the current > offering (although I've not seen a FrameMaker 8 manual.) The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for convenience). Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Search the Web for "generative understanding" and "generative learning." The problem with the common time vs. attempts vs. progress learning curve model is that it's applied to a single simple task. It "charts" very well, but it's not a reliable model outside a lab experiment. Generative understanding and generative learning view learning as complex tasks in which forward progress can be set back when a new component is introduced, until the new task is mastered, and the new mastery is integrated with the older existing skills. Consider learning to juggle. One ball in one hand is easy. One ball in two hands is easy. Two balls in one hand is a bit harder. Two balls in two hands is a bit harder. Three balls in one hand and three balls in two hands is a lot harder - a big jump, even though this task is comprised of the two simpler, previously mastered, tasks. The easy way to measure progress is by adding balls to the juggle and counting how many hit the floor (assuming gravity exists). Plotting the progress is a mixture of starting points, gains, plateaus, setbacks when new challenges are added, lather, rinse, and repeat. Learning FrameMaker is really about learning how documents are constructed and published. You learn to juggle a letter, word, phrase, sentence, and paragraph. Then you juggle controlling the appearance of each of these items separately in a systematic and consistent way - character/font appearance properties and named formats/styles. Then you juggle them together spatially - space between letters, between words, between paragraphs; starting position on page, in frame, in column, across columns; keep with next and previous. Then you juggle the prefix decorations - bullets and numbers. Then you juggle the stage on which they appear - left/right/custom page master pages. Etc. Reread this paragraph substituting "Word," "InDesign," or other tool for "FrameMaker." It's not the tool, it's the process. It's an Industrial Revolution assembly-line manufacturing process applied to information rather than physical objects. You make standardized interchangeable parts (styles/formats), apply them to content/concept building blocks (headings, paragraphs, lists), and build them into larger components (sections, chapters, books.) Because they're standardized, you can rely on them to behave uniformly and reliably in standard situations. FrameMaker's very good at this; Word's been known to be fragile in some parts of its process. HTH Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
And I think we've reached the other end of this conversation. Ok, pretty sure that 1) I wasn't talking about charts and graphs. 2) I was using an expression -- an idiom! -- to articulate my opinion. 3) While curves and charts and graphs do have technical meaning, that meaning doesn't take precedence in the idiomatic usage. 4) Every.single.person on this list knew exactly what I meant. Everyone is very smart and everyone knows their language usage super well and we can all agree that the expression is based on an erroneous understanding of charts and graphs, and you know what? FrameMaker's learning curve is still steep. Deirdre ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
ps I forgot to stick out my tongue at the end of that message. *pleeebt* Deirdre /rant On 4/30/08, Deirdre Reagan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And I think we've reached the other end of this conversation. > > Ok, pretty sure that 1) I wasn't talking about charts and graphs. 2) > I was using an expression -- an idiom! -- to articulate my opinion. > 3) While curves and charts and graphs do have technical meaning, that > meaning doesn't take precedence in the idiomatic usage. 4) > Every.single.person on this list knew exactly what I meant. > > Everyone is very smart and everyone knows their language usage super > well and we can all agree that the expression is based on an erroneous > understanding of charts and graphs, and you know what? > > FrameMaker's learning curve is still steep. > > Deirdre > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
>>The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't one-- at least, no >>hard copy is included or sold >>separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and >>bind yourself, but sheesh. It's >>over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking >>about sending it off to a POD >>printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for >>convenience). > So there is no proper hyperlinked online guide either? Yes, there's online help, but it's nice to have a book you can read away from the computer. Also, the help files that come with various Adobe programs are not (in my opinion) well done. There have been countless times when I've been unable to find simple items in help. For example, you would think that every menu item, or dialogue box option would be covered in help. They often are not. Or, at least, search cannot find them. Of course, these same terms are usually lacking from the indexes in the printed manuals, too. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
One of the best books for FrameMaker that I have in my collection is: The Masters Series: FrameMaker 6 by Thomas Neuburger. You can order this from Amazon or http://www.twelfthnight.com/. Even though it does not cover 7 or 8 you will get a LOT of use out of this one. Z Mike Wickham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't one-- at least, no > >>hard copy is included or sold > >>separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and > >>bind yourself, but sheesh. It's > >>over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking > >>about sending it off to a POD > >>printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for > >>convenience). > > > So there is no proper hyperlinked online guide either? > > Yes, there's online help, but it's nice to have a book you can read away > from the computer. Also, the help files that come with various Adobe > programs are not (in my opinion) well done. There have been countless times > when I've been unable to find simple items in help. For example, you would > think that every menu item, or dialogue box option would be covered in help. > They often are not. Or, at least, search cannot find them. Of course, these > same terms are usually lacking from the indexes in the printed manuals, too. > > Mike Wickham > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/azdunczyk%40triad.rr.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
> > So there is no proper hyperlinked online guide either? > > Yes, there's online help, but it's nice to have a book you can read away > from the computer. Also, the help files that come with various Adobe > programs are not (in my opinion) well done. There have been countless times > when I've been unable to find simple items in help. For example, you would > think that every menu item, or dialogue box option would be covered in help. > They often are not. Or, at least, search cannot find them. Of course, these > same terms are usually lacking from the indexes in the printed manuals, too. Have you tried using the Catalog feature of full Acrobat to create an index of the PDF version of the User Guide? You can use Search in Acrobat or Reader to find text in an indexed PDF much faster than using Find. HTH Regards, Peter ___ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Of course, they should. But (tying this to another thread) if FrameUsers.com ever came back, perhaps we could start a list-members-only wiki. I mean, who better than us to start such a thing? Mike McCallister -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rene Stephenson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:30 PM To: Mike Wickham; Lester C. Smalley; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steve Rickaby Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker Maybe the should outsource the manual to someone on this list. ;-) Rene L. Stephenson - Original Message From: Mike Wickham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Lester C. Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steve Rickaby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:00:10 PM Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the > Frame > 5 manual was the last to be > produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it > is a lot better than the current offering (although I've not seen a > FrameMaker 8 manual.) The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into two volumes for convenience). Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/michael.mccallister% 40ge.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Learning curve for FrameMaker
Though I don't know the release detail, Kay Whatley and Bernard Ashwanden (Bright Path Solutions) both have books coming out very soon. I believe they cover structured Frame in general and DITA specifics. I reviewed the gallies at the FrameMaker Chautauqua and they appear to be promising step-by-step books! Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 > Of course, they should. But (tying this to another thread) if > FrameUsers.com ever came back, perhaps we could start a > list-members-only wiki. I mean, who better than us to start such a > thing? > > Mike McCallister > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rene > Stephenson > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:30 PM > To: Mike Wickham; Lester C. Smalley; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steve > Rickaby > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > > Maybe the should outsource the manual to someone on this list. ;-) > > > Rene L. Stephenson > > > > > - Original Message > From: Mike Wickham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Lester C. Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > Steve Rickaby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:00:10 PM > Subject: Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker > >> Lester omits to mention what will be known to many here - that the >> Frame >> 5 manual was the last to be >> produced by the tech authors at Frame Corp. I have a copy, and yes, it > >> is a lot better than the current offering (although I've not seen a >> FrameMaker 8 manual.) > > The FrameMaker 8 manual is worse, because there isn't on-- at least, no > hard copy is included or sold separately. Adobe does include a file on > the CD that you can print and bind yourself, but sheesh. It's over 1000 > pages and awkward to print and bind in an office. I'm thinking about > sending it off to a POD printer to get a printed/bound copy (split into > two volumes for convenience). > > Mike Wickham > > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/michael.mccallister% > 40ge.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mollye%40clearpath.cc > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Learning curve for FrameMaker
At 18:31 -0400 30/4/08, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >One of the best books for FrameMaker that I have in my collection is: The >Masters Series: FrameMaker 6 by Thomas Neuburger. You can order this from >Amazon or http://www.twelfthnight.com/. Even though it does not cover 7 or 8 >you will get a LOT of use out of this one. Yes, this does look like a promising book. Odd therefore that the author has not updated it. Maybe other things got in the way. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
