RE: How many FM users are there?
Hello Gillian, Before answering your questions as best I can, anyone who is interested in testing the beta version of the next release of FrameMaker should send an email to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Adobe has not officially announced what the release will be called, but as a beta-tester I can tell you that it definitely is not just a point release. To me, the functionality is substantial enough to warrant a major release status. Several Adobe employees at the STC conference indicated that this new release will be shipping before the end of the year. Incidentally, several Adobe engineers who work on FrameMaker were present soliciting feedback from conference attendees, and I was very impressed with their grasp of the product. It was clear that these engineers had already read through many of the wish lists posted on this mail list to get a sense of priorities. (Naturally, the next release won't deliver everything.) I felt that Adobe showed a solid commitment to FrameMaker by the amount of staff and resources that they invested in this year's Annual STC Conference. By the way, at one of the sneak peeks Adobe also showed the much improved import of FrameMaker documents into the upcoming version of RoboHelp. If anyone else has questions about the next release, my advice is to send a request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] that you would like to become a beta tester. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann -Original Message- From: Gillian Flato [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:43 AM To: Maxwell Hoffmann; Diane Gaskill; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Max, Any idea of when the next version of Frame will be released? Will it be 7.3 or 8.0? -Gillian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxwell Hoffmann Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 8:45 PM To: Diane Gaskill; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Hi Diane, [snip] Incidentally, I had a sneak peak of the next release of FrameMaker at a session today and I got permission from the PM to share this much: DITA will be bundled with the next release and end the 5 minutes or so that it takes to download the DITA toolkit. Feedback from STC attendees who have seen the brief sneak peaks of the next FrameMaker has been overwhelmingly positive. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann -Original Message- From: Diane Gaskill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:09 PM To: Diane Gaskill; Maxwell Hoffmann; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Hi Max, The PTC rep told me today that FM DITA is proprietary and not compatible with anything else. Is this true? She also told me that the PTC version of DITA is standard (whatever that means). One of our divisions in Japan has decided to go with AT. We are leaning toward structured FM. I was hoping to be able to exchange XMS files between SFM and AT. Some of the comments (which you probably read) on the framers list seemed to say that I could, but now I am not sure. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks a bunch. Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How many FM users are there?
Just as a further note to the info Max passed on, I'm happy to say that several of the features shown included some awesome tools that Frame has been missing for years. While it was demo of a pre-release and not all versions may make it into the final copy (that should keep legal happy) it was neat to see things like track changes and multiple conditions being added into the application. Add to that the expected inclusion of solid DITA support and the software can easily hold its own against Arbortext. While the default export of DITA content in 7.2 was weak (I built an independent way to create some DITA while Adobe sorted this out) the DITA Application Pack (Free download from Adobe) does a great job. I've created numerous DITA documents including maps, task, references, concepts and more with it and run transforms and validation against the files. I did so in third party tools and other DITA tools. No issues. Frame is solid and will continue to get better. Add support for a variety of other publishing features and Adobe has shown that the rumor of Frame's demise are entirely wrong. The product is strong and viable. The feature set that has been publicly shown results in rounds of applause. I'm so happy to see that there is ongoing development and that the Adobe booth was mobbed with requests for info on a variety of new tools. All the best, Bernard Bernard Aschwanden Director of Technology and Publishing Architecture Bright Path Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.brightpathsolutions.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxwell Hoffmann Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:45 PM To: Diane Gaskill; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Hi Diane, Thank you for checking with me; your timing could not be better. I am at the STC Annual Convention in Minneapolis, where I've had an opportunity to peak in on several DITA presentations and solicit feedback on FrameMaker's DITA capabilities from a variety of sources. I won't say that Arbortext is lying to you, but they are 100% wrong, and clearly misinformed. The only real difference between Arbortext DITA and FrameMaker that I am aware of is that the current release of FrameMaker (V7.2) requires the user to download the DITA toolkit instead of finding it bundled in the product as it ships. If you used structured FrameMaker with the DITA app pak, you will be able to produce DITA that is 100% compliant with OASIS standards. As long as your company's division in Japan is producing DITA-compliant output from Arbortext, there is no reason that you cannot have a seamless exchange. I hope that this ends the argument, but based on past experience of my own with Arbortext sales people, you can probably expect further claims like this to surface. My feedback comes from a variety of sources, including users who are currently creating DITA from structured FrameMaker 7.2. Incidentally, I had a sneak peak of the next release of FrameMaker at a session today and I got permission from the PM to share this much: DITA will be bundled with the next release and end the 5 minutes or so that it takes to download the DITA toolkit. Feedback from STC attendees who have seen the brief sneak peaks of the next FrameMaker has been overwhelmingly positive. I hope this helps. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann -Original Message- From: Diane Gaskill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:09 PM To: Diane Gaskill; Maxwell Hoffmann; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Hi Max, The PTC rep told me today that FM DITA is proprietary and not compatible with anything else. Is this true? She also told me that the PTC version of DITA is standard (whatever that means). One of our divisions in Japan has decided to go with AT. We are leaning toward structured FM. I was hoping to be able to exchange XMS files between SFM and AT. Some of the comments (which you probably read) on the framers list seemed to say that I could, but now I am not sure. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks a bunch. Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL
RE: How many FM users are there?
Max, Any idea of when the next version of Frame will be released? Will it be 7.3 or 8.0? -Gillian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxwell Hoffmann Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 8:45 PM To: Diane Gaskill; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Hi Diane, Thank you for checking with me; your timing could not be better. I am at the STC Annual Convention in Minneapolis, where I've had an opportunity to peak in on several DITA presentations and solicit feedback on FrameMaker's DITA capabilities from a variety of sources. I won't say that Arbortext is lying to you, but they are 100% wrong, and clearly misinformed. The only real difference between Arbortext DITA and FrameMaker that I am aware of is that the current release of FrameMaker (V7.2) requires the user to download the DITA toolkit instead of finding it bundled in the product as it ships. If you used structured FrameMaker with the DITA app pak, you will be able to produce DITA that is 100% compliant with OASIS standards. As long as your company's division in Japan is producing DITA-compliant output from Arbortext, there is no reason that you cannot have a seamless exchange. I hope that this ends the argument, but based on past experience of my own with Arbortext sales people, you can probably expect further claims like this to surface. My feedback comes from a variety of sources, including users who are currently creating DITA from structured FrameMaker 7.2. Incidentally, I had a sneak peak of the next release of FrameMaker at a session today and I got permission from the PM to share this much: DITA will be bundled with the next release and end the 5 minutes or so that it takes to download the DITA toolkit. Feedback from STC attendees who have seen the brief sneak peaks of the next FrameMaker has been overwhelmingly positive. I hope this helps. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann -Original Message- From: Diane Gaskill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:09 PM To: Diane Gaskill; Maxwell Hoffmann; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Hi Max, The PTC rep told me today that FM DITA is proprietary and not compatible with anything else. Is this true? She also told me that the PTC version of DITA is standard (whatever that means). One of our divisions in Japan has decided to go with AT. We are leaning toward structured FM. I was hoping to be able to exchange XMS files between SFM and AT. Some of the comments (which you probably read) on the framers list seemed to say that I could, but now I am not sure. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks a bunch. Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How many FM users are there?
On 16 May 2007, at 16:00, Bernard Aschwanden wrote: Just as a further note to the info Max passed on, I'm happy to say that several of the features shown included some awesome tools that Frame has been missing for years. While it was demo of a pre- release and not all versions may make it into the final copy (that should keep legal happy) it was neat to see things like track changes and multiple conditions being added into the application. Adobe is looking for FrameMaker 8 beta testers. http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/ Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How many FM users are there?
I will hazard the guess that this assertion is based on the same argument ArborText used to (maybe still does?) make about FrameMaker not being real SGML (or XML) because it saves files in its own internal format. Now that is no longer true for XML w/ version 7+, but it would not surprise me that they still are making such a statement. Chalk it up to FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) marketing tactics. And several others have given you the ammunition to counter such claims to your management. On Tuesday, May 15, 2007 09:09 PM, Diane Gaskill wrote: | Hi Max, | | The PTC rep told me today that FM DITA is proprietary and not | compatible with anything else. Is this true? She also told me | that the PTC version of DITA is standard (whatever that means). | | One of our divisions in Japan has decided to go with AT. We | are leaning toward structured FM. I was hoping to be able to | exchange XMS files between SFM and AT. Some of the comments | (which you probably read) on the framers list seemed to say | that I could, but now I am not sure. Can you shed any light | on this? | | Thanks a bunch. | | Diane - Lester --- Lester C. Smalley Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com Information Consultants, Inc. Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712 Yorklyn, DE 19736 Web: www.infocon.com --- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How many FM users are there?
Hi Max, The PTC rep told me today that FM DITA is proprietary and not compatible with anything else. Is this true? She also told me that the PTC version of DITA is standard (whatever that means). One of our divisions in Japan has decided to go with AT. We are leaning toward structured FM. I was hoping to be able to exchange XMS files between SFM and AT. Some of the comments (which you probably read) on the framers list seemed to say that I could, but now I am not sure. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks a bunch. Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How many FM users are there?
Hi Diane, Thank you for checking with me; your timing could not be better. I am at the STC Annual Convention in Minneapolis, where I've had an opportunity to peak in on several DITA presentations and solicit feedback on FrameMaker's DITA capabilities from a variety of sources. I won't say that Arbortext is lying to you, but they are 100% wrong, and clearly misinformed. The only real difference between Arbortext DITA and FrameMaker that I am aware of is that the current release of FrameMaker (V7.2) requires the user to download the DITA toolkit instead of finding it bundled in the product as it ships. If you used structured FrameMaker with the DITA app pak, you will be able to produce DITA that is 100% compliant with OASIS standards. As long as your company's division in Japan is producing DITA-compliant output from Arbortext, there is no reason that you cannot have a seamless exchange. I hope that this ends the argument, but based on past experience of my own with Arbortext sales people, you can probably expect further claims like this to surface. My feedback comes from a variety of sources, including users who are currently creating DITA from structured FrameMaker 7.2. Incidentally, I had a sneak peak of the next release of FrameMaker at a session today and I got permission from the PM to share this much: DITA will be bundled with the next release and end the 5 minutes or so that it takes to download the DITA toolkit. Feedback from STC attendees who have seen the brief sneak peaks of the next FrameMaker has been overwhelmingly positive. I hope this helps. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann -Original Message- From: Diane Gaskill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:09 PM To: Diane Gaskill; Maxwell Hoffmann; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Hi Max, The PTC rep told me today that FM DITA is proprietary and not compatible with anything else. Is this true? She also told me that the PTC version of DITA is standard (whatever that means). One of our divisions in Japan has decided to go with AT. We are leaning toward structured FM. I was hoping to be able to exchange XMS files between SFM and AT. Some of the comments (which you probably read) on the framers list seemed to say that I could, but now I am not sure. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks a bunch. Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How many FM users are there?
Susan, Do you have any idea what happened to the copies of FM that are no longer used by your former companies? Thanks, Diane -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Susan Modlin Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 10:09 AM To: Bodvar Bjorgvinsson Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: How many FM users are there? Hi Bodvar, Given that many FrameMaker users are in the software industry (at least here in Northern California), the number of unused licenses may be higher than you think. For example, as the manager of the Pubs department at Company A, I bought nine licenses for my group. The company was acquired and my entire department was eventually laid off. At Company B, I bought three FrameMaker licenses for my group, only to have the same thing happen again. I'm now at Company C, where I bought yet another copy. I also have the personal copy I bought after one of the layoffs. So of the 14 licenses I've bought in the last 7 years, only two are currently in use. ...Susan Susan Frahm Modlin Lithium Technologies www.lithium.com - Original Message From: Bodvar Bjorgvinsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 3:20:53 AM Subject: Re: How many FM users are there? Hi Diane, Adobe should know how many licenses they have _sold_. How many are _using_ FM is a different matter. I guess they are somewhat fewer. I base that assumption on the fact that you can get used FM second hand (including all paperwork). This leads me to assume that a (small?) number of licenses are no longer in use. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dgcaller%40earthlink.net Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How many FM users are there?
Diane, When I left Frame Tech in 1994, internal metrics and intelligent speculation put the total number of worldwide licenses at around 300K. With Wanock's listing of 500K 5 years later, you could assume liberal growth of 40,000 licenses per year which would put the probable current figure at an additional 280,000 licenses for a total of 780,000. If you cut the growth figure in half to be conservative, the total number of licenses is probably 640,000. I think 650,000 total licenses would be a safe, conservative figure. FYI -- when I worked at Frame Tech and many of the licenses sold were still UNIX (the PC was taking off by 1993), Frame estimated that only about 15% of users actually registered their licenses. I don't know what the reg rate is for Adobe, but that is one of the reasons that it is very challenging for a vendor to have accurate figures on actual numbers of licenses in use. Regarding your earlier posting in late April (what are some of the advantages that structured FrameMaker has over Arbortext) here are a few insights. I've worked with a few customers whose management insisted on migration to Arbortext, while much of production stayed in FrameMaker during the interim. Even with experienced users who are up on XML structure, Arbortext takes far longer than FrameMaker to design and test templates. Arbortext Architect (the special license required to create style sheets) used to cost $15K. FrameMaker's advantage is that every license is a template creator at no additional cost. My company continued to design and support the structured application files in FrameMaker for one account that had parallel Arbortext publishing and development. Feedback we received is that it took ENLASO 4 business days to develop significant format changes for XML publishing that took over 3.5 weeks of testing and development in Arbortext. Naturally, some of this may be dependent on the intelligence of expertise of the staff involved. But in general I have observed that structured FrameMaker is much swifter than Arbortext when it comes to making significant structural and formatting changes to an application. The customer in question used very sophisticated page and PDF formatting that went beyond most streamline formatting associated with XML applications. (Lots of fancy tables, and lots of 3 level lists w/in tables.) Because Arbortext does not give a literal page representation, there are often surprises at print/output time from target languages that cause text expansion. One more reason that FrameMaker's embedded EDD with formatting rules and real page display gives an advantage. The single biggest reason to stick with FrameMaker over Arbortext would be if you have multilingual projects that occasionally require maintaining the same page breaks as the source English. In Arbortext that would require an awful lot of PDF previews to achieve. Another reason for sticking with structured FrameMaker is if your company or division has a desire to go all XML corporate wide. FrameMaker has a much lower learning curve than Arbortext, and is far easier for Word users to master it than Arbortext. End users in Arbortext (who won't be involved in format design, etc.) have a considerable amount of training to go through to master the system which is less intuitive. If I had to distill it down to a crude observation I would say that Arbortext was designed for engineers and FrameMaker was designed for everybody else. -- p.s. I went through 4 weeks of Arbortext training a few years ago. Recent demos indicate that the publishing paradigm is still similar to what I was trained on. I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me directly if you need more insights. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com http://www.translate.com/ for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:28:22 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: How many FM users are there? To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, I know Adobe keeps all of their numbers a Big Secret, but I am creating a comparison spreadsheet in my research on FM vs AT and I need to have a general idea of how many FM seats have been installed. FM has been in use since the late 1980s and I would estimate at least 100K seats. If anyone on the list can provide an more accurate number, I'd really appreciate the information. Incidentally, PTC says they
RE: How many FM users are there?
Diane, A friend forwarded an article to me with more substantial and credible statistics. Econtent magazine ran an article June of last year which quoted 800,000 FrameMaker users and 50,000 Arbortext Users. (Ironically, my liberal extrapolation would have put users at 780,000, so I wasn't too far off!) You can view the WWW online version of this article at the following URL: http://www.econtentmag.com/Articles/ArticlePrint.aspx?ArticleID=15686 ... Hope that this helps. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:28:22 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: How many FM users are there? To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, I know Adobe keeps all of their numbers a Big Secret, but I am creating a comparison spreadsheet in my research on FM vs AT and I need to have a general idea of how many FM seats have been installed. FM has been in use since the late 1980s and I would estimate at least 100K seats. If anyone on the list can provide an more accurate number, I'd really appreciate the information. Incidentally, PTC says they have 20K installed seats. Thanks, Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT: Re: How many FM users are there?
Totally random point of interest---that is also roughly the number of certificated pilots in the US. Maxwell Hoffmann wrote: I think 650,000 total licenses would be a safe, conservative figure. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How many FM users are there?
Wow. What a wonderfully informative email. This one will go straight to the Director's inbox as well as my manager's for sure. Thank you SO much, Max. Best Regards, Diane == -Original Message- From: Maxwell Hoffmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 10, 2007 9:01 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Diane, When I left Frame Tech in 1994, internal metrics and intelligent speculation put the total number of worldwide licenses at around 300K. With Wanock's listing of 500K 5 years later, you could assume liberal growth of 40,000 licenses per year which would put the probable current figure at an additional 280,000 licenses for a total of 780,000. If you cut the growth figure in half to be conservative, the total number of licenses is probably 640,000. I think 650,000 total licenses would be a safe, conservative figure. FYI -- when I worked at Frame Tech and many of the licenses sold were still UNIX (the PC was taking off by 1993), Frame estimated that only about 15% of users actually registered their licenses. I don't know what the reg rate is for Adobe, but that is one of the reasons that it is very challenging for a vendor to have accurate figures on actual numbers of licenses in use. Regarding your earlier posting in late April (what are some of the advantages that structured FrameMaker has over Arbortext) here are a few insights. I've worked with a few customers whose management insisted on migration to Arbortext, while much of production stayed in FrameMaker during the interim. Even with experienced users who are up on XML structure, Arbortext takes far longer than FrameMaker to design and test templates. Arbortext Architect (the special license required to create style sheets) used to cost $15K. FrameMaker's advantage is that every license is a template creator at no additional cost. My company continued to design and support the structured application files in FrameMaker for one account that had parallel Arbortext publishing and development. Feedback we received is that it took ENLASO 4 business days to develop significant format changes for XML publishing that took over 3.5 weeks of testing and development in Arbortext. Naturally, some of this may be dependent on the intelligence of expertise of the staff involved. But in general I have observed that structured FrameMaker is much swifter than Arbortext when it comes to making significant structural and formatting changes to an application. The customer in question used very sophisticated page and PDF formatting that went beyond most streamline formatting associated with XML applications. (Lots of fancy tables, and lots of 3 level lists w/in tables.) Because Arbortext does not give a literal page representation, there are often surprises at print/output time from target languages that cause text expansion. One more reason that FrameMaker's embedded EDD with formatting rules and real page display gives an advantage. The single biggest reason to stick with FrameMaker over Arbortext would be if you have multilingual projects that occasionally require maintaining the same page breaks as the source English. In Arbortext that would require an awful lot of PDF previews to achieve. Another reason for sticking with structured FrameMaker is if your company or division has a desire to go all XML corporate wide. FrameMaker has a much lower learning curve than Arbortext, and is far easier for Word users to master it than Arbortext. End users in Arbortext (who won't be involved in format design, etc.) have a considerable amount of training to go through to master the system which is less intuitive. If I had to distill it down to a crude observation I would say that Arbortext was designed for engineers and FrameMaker was designed for everybody else. -- p.s. I went through 4 weeks of Arbortext training a few years ago. Recent demos indicate that the publishing paradigm is still similar to what I was trained on. I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me directly if you need more insights. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com http://www.translate.com/ for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:28:22 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: How many FM users are there? To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, I know Adobe keeps all of their numbers a Big Secret
RE: How many FM users are there?
Again, I thank you Max, but this time I have a few comments. The article that youi pointed me to includes a table comparing several XML authoring and editing tools. It says FM is available only on Windows, but lists AT as being available on Windows and Solaris. This information seems to be reversed. They also list the WYSIWYG capabilities of AT as excellent, and list FM as very good. Again, I think this information is not accurate. Everyone I have talked or emailed with - including the PTC sales reps who came here - has said that Epic Editor presents only a fair WYSIWYG display and to see what you are really going to get, you have to print it to PDF. So, I'm wondering how accurate the rest of the information in this article is. I suppose that judgements on visual presentations (how WYSIWYG something is) can be subjective, but not the platforms on which an application runs. Thanks lots! Diane = -Original Message- From: Maxwell Hoffmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 10, 2007 10:07 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: How many FM users are there? Diane, A friend forwarded an article to me with more substantial and credible statistics. Econtent magazine ran an article June of last year which quoted 800,000 FrameMaker users and 50,000 Arbortext Users. (Ironically, my liberal extrapolation would have put users at 780,000, so I wasn't too far off!) You can view the WWW online version of this article at the following URL: http://www.econtentmag.com/Articles/ArticlePrint.aspx?ArticleID=15686 ... Hope that this helps. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Consulting Training Solutions ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ♦ ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:28:22 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: How many FM users are there? To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, I know Adobe keeps all of their numbers a Big Secret, but I am creating a comparison spreadsheet in my research on FM vs AT and I need to have a general idea of how many FM seats have been installed. FM has been in use since the late 1980s and I would estimate at least 100K seats. If anyone on the list can provide an more accurate number, I'd really appreciate the information. Incidentally, PTC says they have 20K installed seats. Thanks, Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
OT: Re: How many FM users are there?
Totally random point of interest---that is also roughly the number of certificated pilots in the US. Maxwell Hoffmann wrote: > I think 650,000 total licenses would be a safe, conservative figure. >
Re: How many FM users are there?
Hi Diane, Adobe should know how many licenses they have _sold_. How many are _using_ FM is a different matter. I guess they are somewhat fewer. I base that assumption on the fact that you can get used FM second hand (including all paperwork). This leads me to assume that a (small?) number of licenses are no longer in use. Also, CDs get lost and Adobe probably do not want to replace a lost CD even if you have all the information about the CD, the invoice etc. At least, I don't know anyone who has tried to get a software company of this size to send a replacement CD. Example from my experience: My IT department lost our copy of Adobe CS1 (which is 50-100% more expensive here than in the US, thanks to the centuries old feudal system these so-called International businesses commonly use -- they sometimes seem not to have heard of the Internet!), but luckily it showed up again nearly a year later. They have lost a lot of other software CDs. Luckily most of those are outdated anyway. I guess not many are using illegal copies of FM. FM is simply not a kind of software that you can use powerfully on your own without a lot of learning and support. Which makes it awkward, to say the least, to use an illegal copy. Start a project to have FM users register as users (anonymous to Adobe, of course, if there should be any people actually trying to use an illegal copy!). However, I guess that this would be a difficult task, and, many, as with our company, are using it only temporarily, being replaced by others etc; which would probably mean that we could only expect a maximum of 1/4-1/2 of the actual users to register. I would guess even fewer. grinSo why not get the guys who write Numbers to come up with a formula to calculate the users. It takes less than an hour on the show! /grin Seats here: 6. Users: 3 (for now). Bodvar Bjorgvinsson Iceland On 5/9/07, Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I know Adobe keeps all of their numbers a Big Secret, but I am creating a comparison spreadsheet in my research on FM vs AT and I need to have a general idea of how many FM seats have been installed. FM has been in use since the late 1980s and I would estimate at least 100K seats. If anyone on the list can provide an more accurate number, I'd really appreciate the information. Incidentally, PTC says they have 20K installed seats. Thanks, Diane ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How many FM users are there?
At the 1999 FrameUsers Conference in Minneapolis, somebody posed this question to Adobe co-founder and then-CEO John Warnock in a public Q/A session. He responded that FrameMaker had about a half-million installed seats worldwide. This information is a bit old, but it is the only public disclosure of FrameMaker's installed base that I have ever encountered. -Alan Diane Gaskill wrote: Hi all, I know Adobe keeps all of their numbers a Big Secret, but I am creating a comparison spreadsheet in my research on FM vs AT and I need to have a general idea of how many FM seats have been installed. FM has been in use since the late 1980s and I would estimate at least 100K seats. If anyone on the list can provide an more accurate number, I'd really appreciate the information. Incidentally, PTC says they have 20K installed seats. Thanks, Diane -- Alan Houser, President Group Wellesley, Inc. 412-363-3481 www.groupwellesley.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How many FM users are there?
FrameMaker licenses on UNIX can be shared or personal. Users can check out a shared license when they need it, then check it back in when they're done. Depending on demand, the number of users of a single shared license can vary, so it's difficult to be precise. Personal licenses are assigned to an individual login. This can be an individual user, or a login that can be used by more than one user, but the restriction is one logged-in user at a time. Again, this makes a precise estimate difficult to attain. A shared licenses costs about twice the price of a personal licenses. Regards, Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices Diane Gaskill wrote: Hi all, I know Adobe keeps all of their numbers a Big Secret, but I am creating a comparison spreadsheet in my research on FM vs AT and I need to have a general idea of how many FM seats have been installed. FM has been in use since the late 1980s and I would estimate at least 100K seats. If anyone on the list can provide an more accurate number, I'd really appreciate the information. Incidentally, PTC says they have 20K installed seats. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How many FM users are there?
My guess is that there are some exceptions to this. People who routinely try out software are good at reading online help and figuring out software even more complex (gasp!) than FrameMaker. This is not an endorsement of piracy, but were I Adobe, I might encourage this behavior, because people who become addicted to software, as soon as they're in a business environment which will pay for it, speak up loudly and clearly to request it. That is why Apple was so successful giving computers away at low or no cost to schools, and Microsoft was so successful with their student copies of Microsoft Office (on the path to world domination). --- Bodvar Bjorgvinsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess not many are using illegal copies of FM. FM is simply not a kind of software that you can use powerfully on your own without a lot of learning and support. Which makes it awkward, to say the least, to use an illegal copy. User Interface design blog http://user-advocacy.blogspot.com/ Code::Design::UI::Consulting http://www.dionysius.com/ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How many FM users are there?
Hi Bodvar, Given that many FrameMaker users are in the software industry (at least here in Northern California), the number of unused licenses may be higher than you think. For example, as the manager of the Pubs department at Company A, I bought nine licenses for my group. The company was acquired and my entire department was eventually laid off. At Company B, I bought three FrameMaker licenses for my group, only to have the same thing happen again. I'm now at Company C, where I bought yet another copy. I also have the personal copy I bought after one of the layoffs. So of the 14 licenses I've bought in the last 7 years, only two are currently in use. ...Susan Susan Frahm Modlin Lithium Technologies www.lithium.com - Original Message From: Bodvar Bjorgvinsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 3:20:53 AM Subject: Re: How many FM users are there? Hi Diane, Adobe should know how many licenses they have _sold_. How many are _using_ FM is a different matter. I guess they are somewhat fewer. I base that assumption on the fact that you can get used FM second hand (including all paperwork). This leads me to assume that a (small?) number of licenses are no longer in use. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How many FM users are there?
Susan Modlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bodvar, Given that many FrameMaker users are in the software industry (at least here in Northern California), the number of unused licenses may be higher than you think. For example, as the manager of the Pubs department at Company A, I bought nine licenses for my group. The company was acquired and my entire department was eventually laid off. At Company B, I bought three FrameMaker licenses for my group, only to have the same thing happen again. I'm now at Company C, where I bought yet another copy. I also have the personal copy I bought after one of the layoffs. So of the 14 licenses I've bought in the last 7 years, only two are currently in use. This reminds me of a case of applying scientific method results in the wrong conclusion: Monday night - drank Scotch on the rocks until passing out. Tuesday morning - royal hangover. Tuesday night - drank vodka on the rocks until passing out. Wednesday morning - royal hangover. Wednesday night - drank gin on the rocks until passing out. Thursday morning - royal hangover. Thursday night - drank Irish on the rocks until passing out. Friday morning - royal hangover. Conclusion: the common factor is ice cubes. Leave them out of drinks to avoid morning hangovers. Moral, perhaps? Be careful when buying lots of FrameMaker licenses. Perhaps companies that are late FrameMaker adopters are too precarious already to benefit from it?MG Regards, Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
