Re: MS Word vs. Frame
I convinced them to use Frame. I kinda said, "no way in hell" am I gonna recommend Word. My basis was exactly what this group pointed out: they aren't using the Word capabilities that are required (e.g. styles, etc), so if I'm gonna train the pm, I might as well train him on Frame. I also scared him by saying that writers just don't like Word, so recruiting would be difficult. You asked about the project manager. The pm is the Product Management VP, Engineering VP, Recruiter, and "tech writer". Poor guy. I'll probably use Frame/WebWorks solution. I like ePublisher Pro because it works well with Frame, but I'd go with MadCap Flare (without Frame), if I can convince the company that they don't need manuals, but that's a more difficult argument to make. :) Angela On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Diane Gaskill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Ang, > > You're kidding me, right? You are actually considering Word instead of FM? > > We use both here, but are working away from Word, manual by manual. The > Word templates were created from my FM templates. I converted FM to Word > with Mif2Go. Yay Jeremy! > > Just my 2c worth, but if there are no styles in their Word docs, I don't > think they really know how to use Word. And I expect that they know much > about manuals either. I srongly encourage you to take the lead here and get > them on the right path. They will luv ya in the long run. > > Sure, Word sounds like the easy way at the moment, but trust me, not in the > long run. And I think the company will happier with FM too. BTW, if you > need something to convince them, I have lots of Word vs FM comparison docs > that I've either written or collected over the last 10 years or so. Let me > know if you need them. > > Why does the project manager need to learn FM? To comment on your docs? > No, Word is not the way. Buy FM8 and Acrobat 8 Pro. Get the free Acrobat > 8 > reader for them. With Acrobat8 Pro, you can create PDFs that they can > commment in, highlight, edit, and more, just like they can with Word. And > you can keep right on using FM. BTW, if you are worried about converting > the Word docs to FM, don't. FM8 has a great new filter that really does > convert Word docs into FM, tables and graphics and everything. I use it > all > the time. No, not the RTF filter. It's called Microsoft Word 7. Sure > beats those old Mastersoft filters that Frame Technology bought to make the > sale of FM to Adobe. > > If I understand your message, you will be creating both docs and online > help. If that is the case, don't by FM and don't buy Acrobat. Yes, I am > serious. Don't buy them. > > Huh? What? Don't buy FM and Acrobat? > > No, don't buy them. That is, not separately. > > Instead, buy the new Adobe Techinical Communications Suite. It includes a > linked version of FM8 and Robo7, plus Acrobat NINE Pro extended (yep, 9), > and a really neat tool called Captivate. We just bought it for several of > us and let me tell you it is fan-tastic. We are saving lots of time > and > work. You can author in FM and convert the manual to Robo online HTML > help. > TOC, index, glossary, everything. It depends on how you set it up. You > use > conditional text in FM to set up what goes in the help an what doesn't. > You > set up the tag mapping from FM to Robo (it's easy, nothing like WWP was), > do > a couple more easy setup things, hit the convert button, and presto, online > help. You can also author in Robo and import back to FM if you want, but > I'd > recommend setting it up as author in FM, print docs from FM, import by > reference into Robo. > > Captivate is amazing. 3D interactive graphics in a PDF file. Live > installation demos with almost no instructions to write. No special > viewers, just Acrobat Reader 7 or 8. Who'd have ever thought you could do > this? You run a GUI and record your actions. Users can play it back as a > demo or walk themselves through it, with popup instructions guiding them > along if you want. I'll send you a demo file I created offline 'cause the > list strips attachments. It is really cool. > > Microsoft, eat your heart out. :-) > > Gee, do I sound like I'm selling it or something? Well, that wasn't my > intent, but I gotta tellya, these toys are really fun to play with, and the > big bosses are already taking notice of what we are doing. > > BTW, thank you Matt Sullivan, wheever you are. That was a great TCS class. > We'll be hitting you with questions pretty soon. > > Cheers, > > Diane Gaskill > Hitachi Data Systems > Santa Clara, CA > > === > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Angela Akridge > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:07 PM > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: MS Word vs. Frame > > > Hi, > > Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text insets? > Conditional text? > > I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limite
Re: RE: MS Word vs. Frame
Basically they are incompetent with either tool, and your worst case scenario is that they are hopeless. This is what expert staff is supposed to do. I once had an employer comment on a recommendation to switch to structured Frame, since I was the only expert they had, with "...what do we do if Scott, a contractor, decides to move to Aruba?" It's a specious argument. Deciding not to do something based not on what the tool can do for you, and only on the current availability of an employee is stupid. If the company can't afford to invest in expert staff to accomplish a task (even as a contractor), they can't afford to be in business. It's part of the cost of doing business. Scott On Tue 08/06/10 16:05 , "Combs, Richard" sent: > I have to go against my fellow list-members (and my own preferences) on > this one. As John noted, they apparently don't _really_ know how to use > Word -- and thus will likely mess things up when they do the "minor > updates." OTOH, learning FM is non-trivial, and if they don't use > stylesin Word, they're likely to mess up FM docs, too, even after some > training. At the least, you'd have to modify the interface to disable > adhoc formatting controls as much as possible. Msg sent via Internet America Webmail - www.internetamerica.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MS Word vs. Frame
Hi Ang, You're kidding me, right? You are actually considering Word instead of FM? We use both here, but are working away from Word, manual by manual. The Word templates were created from my FM templates. I converted FM to Word with Mif2Go. Yay Jeremy! Just my 2c worth, but if there are no styles in their Word docs, I don't think they really know how to use Word. And I expect that they know much about manuals either. I srongly encourage you to take the lead here and get them on the right path. They will luv ya in the long run. Sure, Word sounds like the easy way at the moment, but trust me, not in the long run. And I think the company will happier with FM too. BTW, if you need something to convince them, I have lots of Word vs FM comparison docs that I've either written or collected over the last 10 years or so. Let me know if you need them. Why does the project manager need to learn FM? To comment on your docs? No, Word is not the way. Buy FM8 and Acrobat 8 Pro. Get the free Acrobat 8 reader for them. With Acrobat8 Pro, you can create PDFs that they can commment in, highlight, edit, and more, just like they can with Word. And you can keep right on using FM. BTW, if you are worried about converting the Word docs to FM, don't. FM8 has a great new filter that really does convert Word docs into FM, tables and graphics and everything. I use it all the time. No, not the RTF filter. It's called Microsoft Word 7. Sure beats those old Mastersoft filters that Frame Technology bought to make the sale of FM to Adobe. If I understand your message, you will be creating both docs and online help. If that is the case, don't by FM and don't buy Acrobat. Yes, I am serious. Don't buy them. Huh? What? Don't buy FM and Acrobat? No, don't buy them. That is, not separately. Instead, buy the new Adobe Techinical Communications Suite. It includes a linked version of FM8 and Robo7, plus Acrobat NINE Pro extended (yep, 9), and a really neat tool called Captivate. We just bought it for several of us and let me tell you it is fan-tastic. We are saving lots of time and work. You can author in FM and convert the manual to Robo online HTML help. TOC, index, glossary, everything. It depends on how you set it up. You use conditional text in FM to set up what goes in the help an what doesn't. You set up the tag mapping from FM to Robo (it's easy, nothing like WWP was), do a couple more easy setup things, hit the convert button, and presto, online help. You can also author in Robo and import back to FM if you want, but I'd recommend setting it up as author in FM, print docs from FM, import by reference into Robo. Captivate is amazing. 3D interactive graphics in a PDF file. Live installation demos with almost no instructions to write. No special viewers, just Acrobat Reader 7 or 8. Who'd have ever thought you could do this? You run a GUI and record your actions. Users can play it back as a demo or walk themselves through it, with popup instructions guiding them along if you want. I'll send you a demo file I created offline 'cause the list strips attachments. It is really cool. Microsoft, eat your heart out. :-) Gee, do I sound like I'm selling it or something? Well, that wasn't my intent, but I gotta tellya, these toys are really fun to play with, and the big bosses are already taking notice of what we are doing. BTW, thank you Matt Sullivan, wheever you are. That was a great TCS class. We'll be hitting you with questions pretty soon. Cheers, Diane Gaskill Hitachi Data Systems Santa Clara, CA === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Angela Akridge Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:07 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: MS Word vs. Frame Hi, Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text insets? Conditional text? I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limited budget. I've been tasked to create their online help. They currently have manuals in MS Word, though no styles/tags are being used yet. They have no permanent writer, and they can't afford one at this time. There's a chance that I'll be supporting their major releases on an ongoing basis, and they'll update the help for their maintenance releases. Let me get to the point. I must choose between MS Word or Frame as the source. I don't know which to choose, given the circumstances! Frame meets a writers needs now and in the future. I don't want myself or the future writer to be stuck with MS Word. However, I know that the Project Manager isn't gonna like learning Frame. A conversion is less highly unlikely in an environment with very tight deadlines and where there are limited resources. They know how to use MS Word. I'm good with Frame, and don't know anything about publishing with MS Word. Also, it's easier to recruit writers when the source is in Frame, or so I've noticed. Angela _
Re: MS Word vs. Frame
OK, but that was in 2001. Ah well life on the web. Anyway, links that work (Googled "word vs framemaker"): www.freeframers.org/inframe/archive/files/vol1/1-2/wordvsfm2.pdf http://www.front-runner.com/pages/support/files/fm_vs_w_ar.pdf http://en.allexperts.com/q/Adobe-Framemaker-1523/Word-Vs-Framemaker.htm http://ezinearticles.com/?FrameMaker-versus-Word&id=369780 http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/demo.html www.bwa.org/notes/The%20Great%20Word%20vs%20Frame%20Debate.ppt Plus many more... Alan On 11/06/2008, at 9:58 AM, Angela Akridge wrote: > > Most of the links don't work. :( > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Alan Litchfield > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would suggest looking through this page's references > http://members.shaw.ca/philip.sharman/fm_v_wd.html > > Alan > > Angela Akridge wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text > insets? > > Conditional text? > > > > I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limited > budget. I've > > been tasked to create their online help. They currently have > manuals in MS > > Word, though no styles/tags are being used yet. > > > > They have no permanent writer, and they can't afford one at this > time. > > There's a chance that I'll be supporting their major releases on > an ongoing > > basis, and they'll update the help for their maintenance releases. > Let me > > get to the point. > > > > I must choose between MS Word or Frame as the source. I don't know > which to > > choose, given the circumstances! > > > > Frame meets a writers needs now and in the future. I don't want > myself or > > the future writer to be stuck with MS Word. However, I know that > the Project > > Manager isn't gonna like learning Frame. A conversion is less highly > > unlikely in an environment with very tight deadlines and where > there are > > limited resources. > > > > They know how to use MS Word. I'm good with Frame, and don't know > anything > > about publishing with MS Word. Also, it's easier to recruit > writers when the > > source is in Frame, or so I've noticed. > > > > Angela > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > or visit > > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz > > > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > > -- > Alan Litchfield MBus (Hons), MNZCS > AlphaByte > PO Box 1941, Auckland > http://www.alphabyte.co.nz > > > > > -- > Angela Akridge > _ > Loans that change lives > http://www.kiva.org/ -- Alan Litchfield MBus(Hons), MNZCS AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, NZ. 1140 http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MS Word vs. Frame
Angela Akridge wrote: > I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limited budget. I've > been tasked to create their online help. They currently have manuals in MS > Word, though no styles/tags are being used yet. > > They have no permanent writer, and they can't afford one at this time. > There's a chance that I'll be supporting their major releases on an ongoing > basis, and they'll update the help for their maintenance releases. Let me > get to the point. > > I must choose between MS Word or Frame as the source. I don't know which to > choose, given the circumstances! I have to go against my fellow list-members (and my own preferences) on this one. As John noted, they apparently don't _really_ know how to use Word -- and thus will likely mess things up when they do the "minor updates." OTOH, learning FM is non-trivial, and if they don't use styles in Word, they're likely to mess up FM docs, too, even after some training. At the least, you'd have to modify the interface to disable ad hoc formatting controls as much as possible. And with either FM or Word, you still have to pick a help tool. For FM, Mif2Go is inexpensive, and once you set it up, they can just "turn the crank" to regenerate their output. But things will break when they redefine formats, use overrides left and right, etc. For Word, Doc-To-Help would be a good choice. But it's been a few years since I've used it, and I can't say how well it would handle Word files maintained by the less-than-skilled. In any case, a small startup with not much money or time -- it's asking a lot to have them learn either FM or the _right_ way to use Word, plus the help conversion tool, and the disciplined approach needed to keep it all working properly update after update. If the primary deliverable is online help, you may want to consider a lighter-weight, easier-to-learn help authoring tool like Help & Manual. Check out www.hat-matrix.com for info on various help authoring tools. HTH! Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MS Word vs. Frame
I'd agree with John... You're in the right position to put them on the right track, for a not-too-big investment. But if the argument is that they don't have the time or cash to do it right the first time, you may want to look elsewhere for a better opportunity. If they don't get started professionally now, it's going to cost them more in time and money further down the line. *** And the single largest thing that I think you'd be giving up is the ability to set and manage style for the entire doc set / help set from book files. Art On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 5:14 PM, John Sgammato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You're asking a biased audience here... > IMO if they want a quality product then they should use the right tool > for the job. If their docs are in MS Word without styles, then I would > dispute the assertion that they know how to use MS Word. > With FM, Acrobat, and Mif2Go you can generate printed docs, online docs, > online help, and output to MS Word so the PM can update the docs between > releases. > Ymmv, etc, etc > john > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Angela > Akridge > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:07 PM > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com > Subject: MS Word vs. Frame > > Hi, > > Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text > insets? > Conditional text? > > I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limited budget. > I've been tasked to create their online help. They currently have > manuals in MS Word, though no styles/tags are being used yet. > > They have no permanent writer, and they can't afford one at this time. > There's a chance that I'll be supporting their major releases on an > ongoing basis, and they'll update the help for their maintenance > releases. Let me get to the point. > > I must choose between MS Word or Frame as the source. I don't know which > to choose, given the circumstances! > > Frame meets a writers needs now and in the future. I don't want myself > or the future writer to be stuck with MS Word. However, I know that the > Project Manager isn't gonna like learning Frame. A conversion is less > highly unlikely in an environment with very tight deadlines and where > there are limited resources. > > They know how to use MS Word. I'm good with Frame, and don't know > anything about publishing with MS Word. Also, it's easier to recruit > writers when the source is in Frame, or so I've noticed. > > Angela > ___ > > -- Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MS Word vs. Frame
I would suggest looking through this page's references http://members.shaw.ca/philip.sharman/fm_v_wd.html Alan Angela Akridge wrote: > Hi, > > Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text insets? > Conditional text? > > I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limited budget. I've > been tasked to create their online help. They currently have manuals in MS > Word, though no styles/tags are being used yet. > > They have no permanent writer, and they can't afford one at this time. > There's a chance that I'll be supporting their major releases on an ongoing > basis, and they'll update the help for their maintenance releases. Let me > get to the point. > > I must choose between MS Word or Frame as the source. I don't know which to > choose, given the circumstances! > > Frame meets a writers needs now and in the future. I don't want myself or > the future writer to be stuck with MS Word. However, I know that the Project > Manager isn't gonna like learning Frame. A conversion is less highly > unlikely in an environment with very tight deadlines and where there are > limited resources. > > They know how to use MS Word. I'm good with Frame, and don't know anything > about publishing with MS Word. Also, it's easier to recruit writers when the > source is in Frame, or so I've noticed. > > Angela > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > -- Alan Litchfield MBus (Hons), MNZCS AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MS Word vs. Frame
You're asking a biased audience here... IMO if they want a quality product then they should use the right tool for the job. If their docs are in MS Word without styles, then I would dispute the assertion that they know how to use MS Word. With FM, Acrobat, and Mif2Go you can generate printed docs, online docs, online help, and output to MS Word so the PM can update the docs between releases. Ymmv, etc, etc john -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Angela Akridge Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:07 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: MS Word vs. Frame Hi, Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text insets? Conditional text? I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limited budget. I've been tasked to create their online help. They currently have manuals in MS Word, though no styles/tags are being used yet. They have no permanent writer, and they can't afford one at this time. There's a chance that I'll be supporting their major releases on an ongoing basis, and they'll update the help for their maintenance releases. Let me get to the point. I must choose between MS Word or Frame as the source. I don't know which to choose, given the circumstances! Frame meets a writers needs now and in the future. I don't want myself or the future writer to be stuck with MS Word. However, I know that the Project Manager isn't gonna like learning Frame. A conversion is less highly unlikely in an environment with very tight deadlines and where there are limited resources. They know how to use MS Word. I'm good with Frame, and don't know anything about publishing with MS Word. Also, it's easier to recruit writers when the source is in Frame, or so I've noticed. Angela ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivat a.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
