RE: Outline
Hi Terry, Two questions about Enhance, since you have experience with it: 1. Can one assign any paratags to any outline level? (Not bound to Heading1, etc.) 2. Can one assign more than one paratag to a given outline level? For example, can one assign H3 and H3 Close to the same outline level? Thank you kindly, Elchanan -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Terry Smith Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:34 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Outline Don Spencer wrote: Has anybody ever written a 3rd party program that offers something akin to Outline View? Would be nice. Yes! Enhance gives you an outline view of your FrameMaker document. It's wonderful for reorganizing large documents. In fact, I'd recommend the product just to help you navigate within a document. Here's the URL: http://www.sandybrook.com/ --- Terry Smith, Technical Consultant Scriptorium Publishing www.scriptorium.comfo. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Outline
I would categorize this a perceived gains, capabilities, and costs. One very big gain and capability that structured documents give you is the ability to require only certain structures to fit after other structures. I can't comment on the capability of Enhance to require a specific structure must exist following any other element, or that they may be optional, or that they are forbidden. XML will do that under FrameMaker, as well as allow you to collapse the structure as you describe. Again, it is about perceived gains, capabilities, and costs. If the costs outweigh the gains and capabilities, then you go another route. Scott At 12:05 PM +1100 1/28/09, Hedley Finger wrote: Scott, Gary: What you are referring to doing, Hedley, is operating in a structured environment. You have misrepresented what I actually said. I have used the DITA XML schema and the DITA-FMx plug-in for FrameMaker to develop structured documentation. But it is certainly a far from trivial exercise to set up the structapp.fm file with all the formatting rules to get your preferred look and feel. You would only take on this level of setting-up overhead if you could amortise the time/cost over a significant number of titles. I do not think Donald was looking to get into structured documentation just yet. He probably has a virtual structure where, in his mind and in his files, Heading 1 /is/ at a higher level than Heading 2. For those who want some of the benefits of structure in unstructured documents without the hassle, I highly recommend Enhance for FrameMaker from Sandybrook Software. You can configure it so that Heading 1 is indeed higher than Heading 2, so that when you collapse the Heading 1 block, any contained Heading 2 subblocks are suppressed but revealed when Heading 1 is expanded again. Enhance works pretty much like the structured view in Word and you can perform all the same operations in Enhance that you can in Word, including outlining when you are developing the structure initially. So for Donald, Enhance is the way to go. A structured document, preferable saved to XML and opened directly from XML (*.fm files are not used at all) has many advantages: you can use all the XML tools on the saved files but work in a friendly WYSIWYG environment. Regards, Hedley -- Hedley Finger 28 Regent Street Camberwell VIC 3124 Australia Tel. +61 3 9809 1229 Fax. (call phone first) Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558 Email. Hedley Finger hfin...@handholding.com.au ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as qui...@airmail.net. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/quills%40airmail.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Outline
Here's a method that nobody's mentioned yet. It's not complete or perfect, but it may be useful: * Create a TOC that extracts all the heading paragraph formats that you want in an outline. Be sure to check Make Hypertext Links. The TOC can be for a single document or a book. * Modify the *TOC paragraph formats to indent the way you want. * Format the TOC page to a narrow column, and a height that's readable when zoomed to full-height on your screen. * Set the zoom to Fit Page to Text Frame. * Arrange your screen with the narrow outline frame next to the document page frame. * Use Frame's Ctrl+Alt+Click on a heading in the TOC to move the insertion point to that heading, so you can edit at that location. * Regenerate the TOC NOTES: - To make the links in the TOC active with a single click, instead of with Ctrl+Alt+Click: tap Escape, tap Shift+F, tap k. The same sequence restores editabiity. - To reuse the outline TOC, save it to a new name. This is handy if you've moved stuff and then need to restore the original order. - Save the real TOC with a new name, and save a copy of the narrow outline TOC to a new name. When you want to generate the real TOC, close the outline TOC and delete or rename it, then open the real TOC, save it to the correct name, and generate. HTH Regards, Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Outline
VLM TechSubs wrote: Hi Terry, Two questions about Enhance, since you have experience with it: 1. Can one assign any paratags to any outline level? (Not bound to Heading1, etc.) 2. Can one assign more than one paratag to a given outline level? For example, can one assign H3 and H3 Close to the same outline level? I can answer those for you. 1. Yes. In the Select Outline Formats dialog, you can select any pgf format and move it to the Outline Formats list. The order of the formats in that list (which you can reorder) determines the outline levels of those pgf formats. You're limited to ten levels (which is more than enough for any sanely organized manual, IMHO). 2. Yes. In the same dialog box, you can select additional pgf formats and assign them to an outline level by clicking Set Secondary Level. For instance, after setting up your primary outline levels with H3 in the third position, you'd select H3 Close, click Set Secondary Level, select 3, and click OK. AFAIK, there's no limit to the number of pgf formats that can be assigned to the same secondary outline level, so if you have additional pgf formats that are third-level headings, you can set their secondary level to 3 as well. The secondary level pgfs act just like the primary outline level pgfs, except that when you promote a secondary level pgf, it becomes the corresponding primary level pgf, so you have to promote it twice to actually move it up a level in the hierarchy. HTH! Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Outline
Don, Sandybrooke software (http://www.sandybrook.com/) has an Outline tool add-on that works within Framemaker. Dave Spreadbury -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Donlad W. Spencer Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 1:47 PM To: Framers (E-mail) Subject: Outline Framer Folks: As I develop my personally written book in FrameMaker 7.2, especially since I have learned to create hot key macros in the customization files, there is only one thing about MS Word that I miss - Outline View. The ability to reduce the book to an outline and manipulate that outline is most convenient, and good old solid FrameMaker offers nothing like that, except the ability to change chapter positions within a book. Has anybody ever written a 3rd party program that offers something akin to Outline View? Would be nice. ~ Don Spencer donandju...@earthlink.net beamwardpublicati...@earthlink.net www.doortrix.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Outline
Someone (or a company) was playing with an idea that would assign different levels of a doc to a conditional text setting or series of settings, so you could hide or reveal the different levels, outline style. Script driven, I think. Possibly Framescript guru Rick Quatro... (Rick, was that you?), but I wasn't interested enough to follow up. But if you haven't already hit Google, it may reveal who it was and whether it got beyond the idea/concept stage. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:19 AM, David Spreadbury dspre...@yahoo.comwrote: Don, Sandybrooke software (http://www.sandybrook.com/) has an Outline tool add-on that works within Framemaker. Dave Spreadbury -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Donlad W. Spencer Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 1:47 PM To: Framers (E-mail) Subject: Outline Framer Folks: As I develop my personally written book in FrameMaker 7.2, especially since I have learned to create hot key macros in the customization files, there is only one thing about MS Word that I miss - Outline View. The ability to reduce the book to an outline and manipulate that outline is most convenient, and good old solid FrameMaker offers nothing like that, except the ability to change chapter positions within a book. Has anybody ever written a 3rd party program that offers something akin to Outline View? Would be nice. ~ Don Spencer donandju...@earthlink.net beamwardpublicati...@earthlink.net www.doortrix.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Outline
FrameMaker already does have an outline view, but you need to be using structured FrameMaker to get it. In unstructured FrameMaker, there is absolutely no difference between a Heading1 and a Heading2, or a Heading2 and a Note. You may have it all organized in your mind, but FrameMaker knows nothing about that. It's all just a bunch of different paragraph formats with different fonts and colors. To turn that into an outline, you need to define the relationships between one paragraph and other, in a way that FrameMaker can understand. That's basically what structured FrameMaker is all about. Once you do that, and you've spent some time working in FrameMaker's Structure View window, you'll never want to go back. Hope that helps, Gary -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Donlad W. Spencer Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 1:47 PM To: Framers (E-mail) Subject: Outline Framer Folks: As I develop my personally written book in FrameMaker 7.2, especially since I have learned to create hot key macros in the customization files, there is only one thing about MS Word that I miss - Outline View. The ability to reduce the book to an outline and manipulate that outline is most convenient, and good old solid FrameMaker offers nothing like that, except the ability to change chapter positions within a book. Has anybody ever written a 3rd party program that offers something akin to Outline View? Would be nice. ~ Don Spencer donandju...@earthlink.net beamwardpublicati...@earthlink.net www.doortrix.com This e-mail, and any attachments are strictly confidential and intended for the addressee(s) only. The content may also contain legal, professional or other privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by return of email, and then delete the e-mail and any attachments. You should not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on this transmission. Please ensure you have adequate virus protection before you open or detach any documents from this transmission. Advantica, Inc. is a company incorporated in Delaware with its headquarters at 600 Bent Creek Blvd., Suite 100, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050 U.S.A. Advantica Ltd. is a company registered in England and Wales with company No. 3294136 and registered office at Holywell Park, New Ashby Road, Loughborough, Leicestershire, LE11 3GR, United Kingdom. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Outline
Don: As I develop my personally written book in FrameMaker 7.2, especially since I have learned to create hot key macros in the customization files, there is only one thing about MS Word that I miss – Outline View. Has anybody ever written a 3rd party program that offers something akin to Outline View? Would be nice. Look for Enhance for FrameMaker by Sandybrook Software. You can create an outline, promote/demote, cut and paste, drag sections, etc. and it all works with the paragraph styles you have currently designed and the virtual nesting of those heading style formats. Unfortunately, at this point it only works file by file. Regards, Hedley -- Hedley Finger 28 Regent Street Camberwell VIC 3124 Australia Tel. +61 3 9809 1229 Fax. (call phone first) Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558 Email. Hedley Finger hfin...@handholding.com.au ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Outline
Exactly! Gary has hit it on the head. What you are referring to doing, Hedley, is operating in a structured environment. Outlining is an early method used to provide structure to data. SGML and XML are later methods to do that. FrameMaker in Structured mode does it quite well. Scott At 8:29 AM -0500 1/27/09, Etzel, Gary wrote: FrameMaker already does have an outline view, but you need to be using structured FrameMaker to get it. In unstructured FrameMaker, there is absolutely no difference between a Heading1 and a Heading2, or a Heading2 and a Note. You may have it all organized in your mind, but FrameMaker knows nothing about that. It's all just a bunch of different paragraph formats with different fonts and colors. To turn that into an outline, you need to define the relationships between one paragraph and other, in a way that FrameMaker can understand. That's basically what structured FrameMaker is all about. Once you do that, and you've spent some time working in FrameMaker's Structure View window, you'll never want to go back. Hope that helps, Gary ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Outline
Hedley Finger wrote: Look for Enhance for FrameMaker by Sandybrook Software. You can create an outline, promote/demote, cut and paste, drag sections, etc. and it all works with the paragraph styles you have currently designed and the virtual nesting of those heading style formats. Unfortunately, at this point it only works file by file. I'll second that. Enhance is a great addition to your FM tool chest. I don't know if there's an FM8/9-compatible version, though. That said, Gary Etzel made a great point regarding structure. One of these days, I'm really going to get serious about learning to work with structured docs... Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Outline
Don Spencer wrote: Has anybody ever written a 3rd party program that offers something akin to Outline View? Would be nice. Yes! Enhance gives you an outline view of your FrameMaker document. It's wonderful for reorganizing large documents. In fact, I'd recommend the product just to help you navigate within a document. Here's the URL: http://www.sandybrook.com/ --- Terry Smith, Technical Consultant Scriptorium Publishing www.scriptorium.com --- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Outline
Scott, Gary: What you are referring to doing, Hedley, is operating in a structured environment. You have misrepresented what I actually said. I have used the DITA XML schema and the DITA-FMx plug-in for FrameMaker to develop structured documentation. But it is certainly a far from trivial exercise to set up the structapp.fm file with all the formatting rules to get your preferred look and feel. You would only take on this level of setting-up overhead if you could amortise the time/cost over a significant number of titles. I do not think Donald was looking to get into structured documentation just yet. He probably has a virtual structure where, in his mind and in his files, Heading 1 /is/ at a higher level than Heading 2. For those who want some of the benefits of structure in unstructured documents without the hassle, I highly recommend Enhance for FrameMaker from Sandybrook Software. You can configure it so that Heading 1 is indeed higher than Heading 2, so that when you collapse the Heading 1 block, any contained Heading 2 subblocks are suppressed but revealed when Heading 1 is expanded again. Enhance works pretty much like the structured view in Word and you can perform all the same operations in Enhance that you can in Word, including outlining when you are developing the structure initially. So for Donald, Enhance is the way to go. A structured document, preferable saved to XML and opened directly from XML (*.fm files are not used at all) has many advantages: you can use all the XML tools on the saved files but work in a friendly WYSIWYG environment. Regards, Hedley -- Hedley Finger 28 Regent Street Camberwell VIC 3124 Australia Tel. +61 3 9809 1229 Fax. (call phone first) Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558 Email. Hedley Finger hfin...@handholding.com.au ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
