Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem
Exactly how are you inserting the images into the FrameMaker document? On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: When the images are inserted into the FrameMaker document and ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem
Maybe FrameMaker 7 is passing part of the drop shadow information unchanged because of something added to Illustrator after 2002 that it doesn't know how to process. On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: At 11:55 -0700 12/3/13, Robert Lauriston wrote: Exactly how are you inserting the images into the FrameMaker document? By reference, always. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained. I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed. So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation. Thanks to everyone who responded to this. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
First off, I'm glad you found a workaround. EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so I still wonder what the main issue is. -Matt Matt Sullivan technical communication | online training | eLearning twitter: @mattrsullivan phone: 714 960-6840 On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained. I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed. So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation. Thanks to everyone who responded to this. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
By me, in Illustrator (CS2). I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed. Coming into this late, but I believe this is an Illustrator issue, which has been solved with newer versions. InDesign used to have the same problem: PDF and AI would generate 4 seps even for black-only images; EPS would work properly. David Creamer IDEAS Training http://www.ideastraining.com Adobe Authorized Instructor Certified Expert since 1995 Authorized QuarkXPress Instructor and Certified Expert since 1988 ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options - not really! Illustrator files input into FrameMaker depend on the Illustrator file being saved with PDF compatibility. It is the PDF that FrameMaker really deals with in that file, not the actual private Illustrator information. For PDF files (and thus Illustrator files) imported into a FrameMaker document, the PDF content is converted internally into EPS and a high resolution preview is created from the PDF. If importing EPS worked, but importing PDF didn't and the original artwork contained live transparency (as in drop shadows, etc.), then the difference would be that when creating EPS from Illustrator, transparency is flattened immediately since PostScript doesn't support live transparency at all! The PDF probably still had the live transparency which should have been properly flattened when the PDF was imported and internal EPS was created. If this happened with the current FrameMaker release and you are able to (1) repeat the problem and (2) share the files with Adobe, I would advise you to report this as a serious bug. - Dov [cid:image001.png@01CE1FFF.81A419E0] Dov Isaacs Principal Scientist Adobe Systems Incorporated +1 408.536.2896 (tel) +1 408.242.5161 (cell) isa...@adobe.commailto:isa...@adobe.com 345 Park Avenue San Jose, CA 95110-2704 USA http://www.adobe.comhttp://www.adobe.com/ Feel free to print this e-mail if your needs dictate hard copy. There is no need to feel guilty about printing! Paper is renewable and recyclable. ISAACS-OFFICE.corp.adobe.com From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:04 AM To: Steve Rickaby Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update First off, I'm glad you found a workaround. EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so I still wonder what the main issue is. -Matt Matt Sullivan technical communication | online training | eLearning twitter: @mattrsullivanhttp://twitter.com/mattrsullivan phone: 714 960-6840 On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.ukmailto:srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained. I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed. So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation. Thanks to everyone who responded to this. -- Steve inline: image001.png___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
At 11:52 -0700 13/3/13, David Creamer wrote: Coming into this late, but I believe this is an Illustrator issue, which has been solved with newer versions. InDesign used to have the same problem: PDF and AI would generate 4 seps even for black-only images; EPS would work properly. That would certainly explain it. This could be that was the problem that lead me to send a pre-press file off to be cleaned up by Acrobat 9 couple of years back. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
Ahh, I thought a bcc to Dov might elicit a response! Thx Dov, for clarifying! -Matt Matt Sullivan technical communication | online training | eLearning twitter: @mattrsullivan phone: 714 960-6840 On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Dov Isaacs isa...@adobe.com wrote: EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options – not really! Illustrator files input into FrameMaker depend on the Illustrator file being saved with PDF compatibility. It is the PDF that FrameMaker really deals with in that file, not the actual private Illustrator information. For PDF files (and thus Illustrator files) imported into a FrameMaker document, the PDF content is converted internally into EPS and a high resolution “preview” is created from the PDF. If importing EPS worked, but importing PDF didn’t and the original artwork contained live transparency (as in drop shadows, etc.), then the difference would be that when creating EPS from Illustrator, transparency is flattened immediately since PostScript doesn’t support live transparency at all! The PDF probably still had the live transparency which should have been properly flattened when the PDF was imported and internal EPS was created. If this happened with the current FrameMaker release and you are able to (1) repeat the problem and (2) share the files with Adobe, I would advise you to report this as a serious bug. - Dov image001.png Dov Isaacs Principal Scientist Adobe Systems Incorporated +1 408.536.2896 (tel) +1 408.242.5161 (cell) isa...@adobe.com 345 Park Avenue San Jose, CA 95110-2704 USA http://www.adobe.com Feel free to print this e-mail if your needs dictate hard copy. There is no need to feel guilty about printing! Paper is renewable and recyclable. ISAACS-OFFICE.corp.adobe.com From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:04 AM To: Steve Rickaby Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update First off, I'm glad you found a workaround. EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so I still wonder what the main issue is. -Matt Matt Sullivan technical communication | online training | eLearning twitter: @mattrsullivan phone: 714 960-6840 On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained. I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed. So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation. Thanks to everyone who responded to this. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem
Hi Steve, Where were the drop shadows created? -Matt Matt Sullivan technical communication | online training | eLearning twitter: @mattrsullivan phone: 714 960-6840 On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: I have a bizarre preflight problem. A (grayscale) book with a great many line art illustrations has four (only) that use the same three clip-art images of cartoon characters. I have reduced all color information in these images to grayscale and preflighted them in Acrobat to ensure that there is no information in the C, M and Y channels. When the images are inserted into the FrameMaker document and PDF is created from it, the appearance in preflight is that a small rectangular 'window' onto part of the four illustrations contains C, M and Y information. This 'window', a square section more or less in the center of each diagram, has the same appearance in all four illustrations that use the clip art. It does not map to the cartoon images, although it clips one of them, and includes a section of my own added vector art. Anyone any clues? I'm on ancient FrameMaker 7 on Mac, but I've never seen anything like this before. (The 220-odd other vector art illustrations preflight just fine, with everything in the K channel and nothing in C, M and Y, as it should be.) What might be a clue: all these problem images include a drop-shadow, and the area containing C, M, Y data is aligned with - although not restricted to - the area occupied by the drop shadow. FrameMaker is set to generate only black, with white as cutout. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem
At 09:39 -0700 12/3/13, Matt Sullivan wrote: Where were the drop shadows created? By me, in Illustrator (CS2). I've had problems with crop shadows created in other applications, but I don't remember having any with Illustrator. In all cases the Color - Grayscale filter was applied to the entire illustration. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem
At 09:39 -0700 12/3/13, Matt Sullivan wrote: Where were the drop shadows created? As you sort of hinted, remove the drop shadow and the problem goes away. But why? As the illustrations preflight ok on their own, why is the drop shadow apparently causing FrameMaker to create this artifact? I seem to remember Dov writing her some time ago that FrameMaker just passes .ps straight through. However, in this case all the art files are PDFs, but that's just for my convenience. Could that be an issue? I don't have time to try alternative files formats *with* the drop shadow right now, but I could try .ai and .eps, I suppose. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem
Try saving the drop shadows as EPS. (I use EPS for all my FrameMaker graphics.) FrameMaker seems to handle EPS graphics best of all-- except that the preview is low resolution. I've used EPS drop shadows that I created in Photoshop without problems. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem
At 11:22 -0700 12/3/13, Matt Sullivan wrote: I used to have 4/c issues with PS-generated drop shadows, so it wasn't too much of a stretch to think that was the problem. Is the d/s an effect, or a filter? Filters will likely give you more control and less problems. In Illustrator it can be applied as either. To be honest, I don't remember which I used. I will experiment more tomorrow (7 pm here now). You should be able to set the color of the d/s in the filter dialog box. I would expect that to create a black-only d/s that causes you less grief. The drop-shadow dialog box does indeed have a color field, which I had never paid much attention to. Now that I look, I see it's set to true black (K 100%). In fact, this dialog is identical for drop shadows both as filters and as effects, which misled me into thinking that they were the same thing, which I now see they are not. Regardless of what you're trying to create, is your Illustrator file set up for the Print intent or the other choice (maybe Video, or similar label). If set to Print, your colors will be represented in CMYK, but in the other, you'll get converted RGB values. Default: never messed with intents. It looks like the default in CS2 is 'relative colorimetric', whatever that means. I'm on Mac, which always seems to handle CMYK better, generally. I know that probably sounds ominous and cryptic, but it should give you some clues as to what you are seeing. Not really - the trouble is that I only tangle with these sorts of issues when preparing a book for press, i.e. by definition at the last minute. Last time I had color data I could not remove, I had to get a pal to shove the prepress file through the touch-ups in Acrobat 9, which are more advanced that the ones in Acrobat 6. [Why have I not got Acrobat 9? Because I don't have an Intel-based Mac that will run it. Why have I not got an Intel-based Mac? Because Apple haven't updated them for ages. Are you listening, Apple?] For more detail see Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 (http://amazon.comamazon.com) on page 457, Controlling Colors for Output I have the book: I will take a look - thanks. But I'm still baffled as to what's happening. With bad color/output choices, I'd expect to see either all CMYK or none, not this odd window thing that is clearly caused by the drop shadow. Will try other options tomorrow and report back if I find a fix. Also .eps as Mike suggested. Thanks to both of you. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
