RE: Structured Frame 12 superscript (Bjokne, Tim (Contractor))
Hi, The subscript and superscript have to be known both in EDD and DTD as elements. Regards, Anna Lena -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] För framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com Skickat: den 23 augusti 2014 19:00 Till: framers@lists.frameusers.com Ämne: framers Digest, Vol 106, Issue 21 Send framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/listinfo/framers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com You can reach the person managing the list at framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of framers digest... Today's Topics: 1. Structured Frame 12 superscript (Bjokne, Tim (Contractor)) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:02:18 -0600 From: Bjokne, Tim (Contractor) tim.bjokne.contrac...@usap.gov To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Structured Frame 12 superscript Message-ID: e712ad823453284781bdc940200363a61499e...@wilson.usap.gov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When using structure Frame, how do I/can I access the character formatting to make portions of text superscript, i.e., when using scientific notation. I tried the keyboard shortcut Esc c + to no avail. Thanks! Tim _ Tim Bjokne Mailing Address: Program Data Management Lockheed Martin Supervisor, Technical Editing 7400 S. Tucson Way Comms/Technical Communication Group Centennial, CO 80112 Lockheed Martin ASC (Antarctic Support Contract)Main Line: 303.790.8606 Direct Line: 720.568.2036 Fax: 303.790.9130 Toll-Free: 800.866.8606 x32036 USAP Web Portal: www.usap.gov _ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/attachments/20140822/1e1926ef/attachment-0001.html -- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers. To unsubscribe send a blank email to http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/listinfo/framers Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. End of framers Digest, Vol 106, Issue 21 ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured frame xml: controlling cell shading
Hi Craig, I don't think this has changed for FrameMaker 10 and 11. For regular shading intervals, yes, you would do this via a Table Format. To specify custom shading based on an attribute value, for example, you would have to do this with an FDK client, or FrameScript or ExtendScript script. If you need more details, please contact me offlist. Thank you very much. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-283-5045 r...@frameexpert.com From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Craig Ede Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 11:25 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com; framemaker-d...@yahoogroups.com Subject: structured frame xml: controlling cell shading I'm interested in controlling cell shading in structured xml documents. The following entry in the DEVELOPING STRUCTURED APPLICATIONS WITH ADOBER FRAMEMAKERR 9 gives me pause: Tables FrameMaker table formats are only partially integrated with the structure model. The content of a FrameMaker table is always fully structured, but the control over cell border ruling is limited and there is no structure format control over cell shading. Does this mean that there is no way to import xml information to dictate cell shading? I'm interested in both options: controlling regular shading patterns (like every third row), and specifying cell shading on an ad-hoc cell-by-cell basis. I believe the regular patterns of shading can be done by using a table format defined in the structured template. Is this true? And is ad hoc cell shading impossible? BTW: The FM 9 document is the most current I can find. I am working in both FM10 and FM11. Thank you. Craig I'm sending this to both the framers and the framemaker-dita lists, but the question is really broader than strict DITA restrictions. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame Reference Guides
Hi Tim: I think that using a paragraph element inherently determines that you have to have a paragraph break. Perhaps you really want a text range element? As for FrameMaker 8 reference guides for structured FrameMaker, I remember that Scriptorium explained why they published a guide to unstructured FrameMaker 8, but not a structured one. However, I don't remember the reason. Maybe someone else can help me out here. I suspect that if you find a third-party guide to structured FrameMaker 7, you'll be fine. Fei Min Lorente From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bjokne, Tim (Contractor) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:33 AM To: Framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Structured Frame Reference Guides I can't find any third party Frame 8 reference guides that talk about structured Framemaker. I see plenty of versions 7 and 9, but no 8. Am I one of the few people using that version of Frame? Is there a book somewhere that I can purchase? Specifically, I am setting up an EDD file and I can't decipher via the Adobe help files how to create an element that does not insert a paragraph break. Paragraph formats all have paragraph breaks after them, and I don't see a way to turn that off from within the EDD. Any help with either question would be much appreciated. Tim _ Tim Bjokne Raytheon Technical Services Company Senior Technical Editor/Writer Polar Services Tech Comm Group 7400 S Tucson Way Direct: 720.568.2036Centennial, CO 80112 Toll-Free: 800.866.8606 x32036 Main Line: 303.790.8606 Fax: 303.792.9006 USAP Web Portal: www.usap.gov file:///\\www.usap.gov Tell me, and I'll forget. Show me, and I may not remember. Involve me, and I'll understand. -Native American Proverb _ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Reference Guides
Fei Min is correct. I've found that the Structure Development Guide that is in the Online Manuals folder in FrameMaker 7 is invaluable. Paragraph styles will always have a paragraph break in them. Text range (which will translate to a Character style) doesn't require a para break. Scott On May 11, 2011, at 8:25, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Hi Tim: I think that using a paragraph element inherently determines that you have to have a paragraph break. Perhaps you really want a text range element? As for FrameMaker 8 reference guides for structured FrameMaker, I remember that Scriptorium explained why they published a guide to unstructured FrameMaker 8, but not a structured one. However, I don’t remember the reason. Maybe someone else can help me out here. I suspect that if you find a third-party guide to structured FrameMaker 7, you’ll be fine. Fei Min Lorente From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bjokne, Tim (Contractor) Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 11:33 AM To: Framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Structured Frame Reference Guides I can't find any third party Frame 8 reference guides that talk about structured Framemaker. I see plenty of versions 7 and 9, but no 8. Am I one of the few people using that version of Frame? Is there a book somewhere that I can purchase? Specifically, I am setting up an EDD file and I can't decipher via the Adobe help files how to create an element that does not insert a paragraph break. Paragraph formats all have paragraph breaks after them, and I don't see a way to turn that off from within the EDD. Any help with either question would be much appreciated. Tim _ Tim Bjokne Raytheon Technical Services Company Senior Technical Editor/Writer Polar Services Tech Comm Group 7400 S Tucson Way Direct: 720.568.2036Centennial, CO 80112 Toll-Free: 800.866.8606 x32036 Main Line: 303.790.8606 Fax: 303.792.9006 USAP Web Portal: www.usap.gov Tell me, and I'll forget. Show me, and I may not remember. Involve me, and I'll understand. -Native American Proverb _ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as qui...@airmail.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/quills%40airmail.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Reference Guides
It appears Scriptorium has some workbooks - states All workbooks are compatible with versions 7 and 8 of FrameMaker. http://www.scriptorium.com/books/framemaker-workbooks/ http://www.scriptorium.com/books/framemaker-workbooks/Bobbi On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Bjokne, Tim (Contractor) tim.bjokne.contrac...@usap.gov wrote: I can't find any third party Frame 8 reference guides that talk about structured Framemaker. I see plenty of versions 7 and 9, but no 8. Am I one of the few people using that version of Frame? Is there a book somewhere that I can purchase? Specifically, I am setting up an EDD file and I can't decipher via the Adobe help files how to create an element that does not insert a paragraph break. Paragraph formats all have paragraph breaks after them, and I don't see a way to turn that off from within the EDD. Any help with either question would be much appreciated. Tim * _ * *Tim Bjokne* * Raytheon Technical Services Company* Senior Technical Editor/Writer Polar Services Tech Comm Group 7400 S Tucson Way Direct: 720.568.2036Centennial, CO 80112 Toll-Free: 800.866.8606 x32036 Main Line: 303.790.8606 Fax: 303.792.9006 USAP Web Portal: *www.usap.gov* *Tell me, and I'll forget. Show me, and I may not remember.* *Involve me, and I'll understand. -Native American Proverb* * _ * ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rahennes...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rahennessey%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Roberta Hennessey Technical Writer (978) 835-4282 ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame Reference Guides
Hi Tim, Can't help you with any books, but there are two possible solutions for problem, depending on the situation or type of elements (inline or container) (Note: using the EDD element names in bold below) 1. Use ParagraphFormatting/PropertiesPagination/Placement/RunInHead. You have to also specify the DefaultPunctuation, which can be set to a space 2. Use TextRangeFormatting instead of ParagraphFormatting. This is normally done for inline elements, but you could force a container element to become inline this way. HTH! Best regards, Herbert Leusink | Consultant | SDL | Structured Content Technologies Division | (t) +31 (0)88-735 46 02 | (m) +31 (0)6 11887708 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bjokne, Tim (Contractor) Sent: maandag 9 mei 2011 17:33 To: Framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Structured Frame Reference Guides I can't find any third party Frame 8 reference guides that talk about structured Framemaker. I see plenty of versions 7 and 9, but no 8. Am I one of the few people using that version of Frame? Is there a book somewhere that I can purchase? Specifically, I am setting up an EDD file and I can't decipher via the Adobe help files how to create an element that does not insert a paragraph break. Paragraph formats all have paragraph breaks after them, and I don't see a way to turn that off from within the EDD. Any help with either question would be much appreciated. Tim _ Tim Bjokne Raytheon Technical Services Company Senior Technical Editor/Writer Polar Services Tech Comm Group 7400 S Tucson Way Direct: 720.568.2036Centennial, CO 80112 Toll-Free: 800.866.8606 x32036 Main Line: 303.790.8606 Fax: 303.792.9006 USAP Web Portal: www.usap.gov file:///\\www.usap.gov Tell me, and I'll forget. Show me, and I may not remember. Involve me, and I'll understand. -Native American Proverb _ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Reference Guides
On the scriptorium web page, there is a tutorial about Building EDDs. http://wiki.scriptorium.com/tiki-index.php FM201 Structured FrameMaker/Introduction to Authoring FM202 Structured FrameMaker/Building EDDs FM203 Structured FrameMaker/Structured Applications --- On Mon, 5/9/11, Bjokne, Tim (Contractor) tim.bjokne.contrac...@usap.gov wrote: From: Bjokne, Tim (Contractor) tim.bjokne.contrac...@usap.gov Subject: Structured Frame Reference Guides To: Framers@lists.frameusers.com Date: Monday, May 9, 2011, 8:33 AM I can't find any third party Frame 8 reference guides that talk about structured Framemaker. I see plenty of versions 7 and 9, but no 8. Am I one of the few people using that version of Frame? Is there a book somewhere that I can purchase? Specifically, I am setting up an EDD file and I can't decipher via the Adobe help files how to create an element that does not insert a paragraph break. Paragraph formats all have paragraph breaks after them, and I don't see a way to turn that off from within the EDD. Any help with either question would be much appreciated. Tim _ Tim Bjokne Raytheon Technical Services Company Senior Technical Editor/Writer Polar Services Tech Comm Group 7400 S Tucson Way Direct: 720.568.2036 Centennial, CO 80112 Toll-Free: 800.866.8606 x32036 Main Line: 303.790.8606 Fax: 303.792.9006 USAP Web Portal: www.usap.gov Tell me, and I'll forget. Show me, and I may not remember. Involve me, and I'll understand. -Native American Proverb _ -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as cha...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/chanbr%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Reference Guides
Specifically, I am setting up an EDD file and I can't decipher via the Adobe help files how to create an element that does not insert a paragraph break. Paragraph formats all have paragraph breaks after them, and I don't see a way to turn that off from within the EDD. Tim, Inside the text formatting rules you would make the element a text range. You'll see the exact element name in the Element Catalog. - Michael ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame Help
Rose, Try Googling for framemaker tutorials. One of the hits will take you to http://www.io.com/~tcm/etwr2472/guides/frame/frame_basics.html. A fairly decent online tutorial. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of roconn...@netspace.net.au Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:52 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Structured Frame Help Hi guys I haven't used Framemaker for about 7 yrs (unfortunately) and only used unstructured Frame in V5.5 Does anyone out there have some source templates, or a small book example of a structured doc? I need to get up and racing pretty quickly and I figure using an existing example is always the easiest way. I have Framemaker 7.1 right now but will be moving to V8.0 next week and utilising the DITA mapping as well. So rather than panicking I'm screaming for help. any help is appreciated. bye for now Rose This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Help
Hi Rose... Sorry to have not responded sooner. If you're on FM7.1 and want to start messing around with DITA authoring, you can use our free version of DITA-FMx (supports FM7.1 and 7.2). The 0.0 version of DITA-FMx provides you with structured apps and some sample files and will let you get into DITA authoring in Frame. It doesn't offer all of the features that are in the 1.0 version of DITA-FMx (but provides more authoring features than you'll find in FM8). When you do get FM8 up and running, you might want to check out DITA-FMx 1.0 which provides integrated access to the Open Toolkit plus lots of nice authoring features. If you're using DITA-FMx (any version) you can email us for help. :) Cheers, ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 roconn...@netspace.net.au wrote: Hi guys I haven't used Framemaker for about 7 yrs (unfortunately) and only used unstructured Frame in V5.5 Does anyone out there have some source templates, or a small book example of a structured doc? I need to get up and racing pretty quickly and I figure using an existing example is always the easiest way. I have Framemaker 7.1 right now but will be moving to V8.0 next week and utilising the DITA mapping as well. So rather than panicking I'm screaming for help. any help is appreciated. bye for now Rose This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Help
Hi Rose, All of our training materials are available here (two unstructured and three structured courses): http://wiki.scriptorium.com The examples are written for v7 but will also work in v8. As the content is editable, we hope that the community will participate in updating this resource for v9. Regards, Sarah O'Keefe roconn...@netspace.net.au wrote: Hi guys I haven't used Framemaker for about 7 yrs (unfortunately) and only used unstructured Frame in V5.5 Does anyone out there have some source templates, or a small book example of a structured doc? I need to get up and racing pretty quickly and I figure using an existing example is always the easiest way. I have Framemaker 7.1 right now but will be moving to V8.0 next week and utilising the DITA mapping as well. So rather than panicking I'm screaming for help. any help is appreciated. bye for now Rose This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as oke...@scriptorium.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/okeefe%40scriptorium.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Sarah O'Keefe Scriptorium Publishing Services, Inc. oke...@scriptorium.com www.scriptorium.com Blog: http://www.scriptorium.com/palimpsest ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Help
On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:52:04 +1100, roconn...@netspace.net.au wrote: I haven't used Framemaker for about 7 yrs (unfortunately) and only used unstructured Frame in V5.5 Does anyone out there have some source templates, or a small book example of a structured doc? I need to get up and racing pretty quickly and I figure using an existing example is always the easiest way. I have Framemaker 7.1 right now but will be moving to V8.0 next week and utilising the DITA mapping as well. So rather than panicking I'm screaming for help. If you want to move to DITA in structured Frame, there are two basic methods. With Frame alone, you can prepare a conversion table and get DITA 1.0 structure in Frame 7.x and 8. If you want DITA 1.1, which we highly recommend over 1.0, you need Frame 9, *or* Leximation's DITA-FMx, which now supports 1.1 in FM7.2, FM8 and FM9 (but not in FM 7.1). Actually, you need DITA-FMx in any case, just to fix Frame's numerous DITA bugs: http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/beta.php (And Scott's support is excellent!) You can also use Mif2Go to convert UNstructured Frame files (from any version since 5.5.6) to DITA 1.1 (or 1.0, if necessary). Most people seem to find that much easier than the conversion-table route (where you can't get to 1.1 without FM9 in any case). There's a free unlimited demo version of Mif2Go at: http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm So what we'd suggest is use Mif2Go to get from your FM 7.1 docs to DITA 1.1, then when you have Frame 8, use DITA-FMx 1.0 to move the DITA files into (and out of) structured Frame. Once you are in structured Frame, you'll want to make your PDFs within Frame, not via the DITA-OT, unless you also want to become an XSLT and Java programmer. g And you can still use Mif2Go to make on-line HTML help; it's much faster and easier than the DITA-OT for that. HTH! -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.com http://www.omsys.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame Primer
Neeraj Jain wrote: Hi Steve, I want to learn structured FM. Can you please provide a specific link within http://www.scriptorium.com from where I can study the same? I browsed scriptorium but found paid resources only. Please help me in learning. Steve said, I used the Scriptorium Press material. Worked for me. I imagine that would be the materials described on Books and self-study materials by Scriptorium Press (http://www.scriptorium.com/books/index.html). I imagine he bought them. Some of us still have this quaint notion that it's worth paying for things of value to us. :-) Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Primer
At 10:00 -0500 3/10/07, Alison Carrico wrote: Can anyone recommend a good primer for learning Structured Frame? /or a good reference for more advanced users? Is the User Manual reasonably good? I used the Scriptorium Press material. Worked for me. http://www.scriptorium.com The Adoobe Struct App online guide is complete, but dense, and lacks a beginner's primer and overview, which makes it rather unfriendly. It's basically a reference guide. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Primer
Hi Steve, I want to learn structured FM. Can you please provide a specific link within http://www.scriptorium.com from where I can study the same? I browsed scriptorium but found paid resources only. Please help me in learning. Smile makes you more close; try it Thanks and Regards, N. Jain Writer 91-9810676241 http://www.neerajjain8.com | http://neerajjain8.rediffiland.com - Original Message From: Steve Rickaby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alison Carrico [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2007 8:37:40 PM Subject: Re: Structured Frame Primer At 10:00 -0500 3/10/07, Alison Carrico wrote: Can anyone recommend a good primer for learning Structured Frame? /or a good reference for more advanced users? Is the User Manual reasonably good? I used the Scriptorium Press material. Worked for me. http://www.scriptorium.com The Adoobe Struct App online guide is complete, but dense, and lacks a beginner's primer and overview, which makes it rather unfriendly. It's basically a reference guide. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/neerajjain8%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured Frame
Fred Ridder wrote: There *are* some real benefits, but they tend to be less quantifiable tangible and harder to proove to managers or business analysts who have to sign off on the budget and implementation plan. The gains in collaboration and writing a topic only once, which are generally more demonstrable, become more significant as the number of writers increases, and the big cost savings come when you're doing single-sourcing and/or translation. My point was just that for a single writer producing documents in a single language with a low degree of single- sourcing, it will be harder to make a compelling *business* case for adopting structure. No, no, no, no, no. You're starting at the wrong end. Data is not created to showcase the talents of technical writers - it's a serious corporate asset. The reason that organizations haven't done more interesting and valuable things like implementing configuration management from requirements right through coding and down to the user documentation is that it has been too hard due to disparate data formats, systems that won't talk to each other and an unwillingness for documentation people to cooperate with each other. Much as I dislike the term silos, that is precisely what a lot of documentation efforts produce. A structured silo might look nice and work well for the tech writer, but it's still just a silo. Tech writers willing to embrace structure are faced with a unique opportunity to add significant value to the whole organization, but they should not be expected to do it by themselves. In fact, it's unlikely that they would be capable of doing it themselves, any more than a database designer would be capable of putting together elegant documentation. Nonetheless, a tech writer willing to assist with improving corporate-wide data integration is a valuable resource. Is this going to be the easiest path for the tech writer? Nope - it would be far easier just to design nice documentation. Would it be a good career move? Yes, provided your management recognizes the opportunity. Is it good for the organization? Unquestionably - documents are done for. It's information now. Marcus Carr ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame
Thanks to everyone for your great responses. FYI, I might add that an advantage of my working for a very small company (and having been there many years) is that I don't need to make a formal proposal for this. (Of course, at the same time, there will be no consultants, etc., just me in the role of strucutered app developer, author, etc.) As long as I produce the existing documentation as needed, I can take my time implementing structure and exploring how we can benefit. (Our unstructured templates are, by the way, very well structured so I'm accostumed to thinking this way.) My hope is that with XML import and export, I won't spend as much time as I now do converting text to and from FrameMaker (which our developers don't use). Our documentation includes lots of in-line code snippets which must be manually formatted with character tags. I'm always looking for a way to reduce this part of the job. Miriam ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured Frame
Marcus, Marcus, Marcus. In the abstract, I completely agree with what you say. My postings in this thread, though, have been written to address the specific context of the original poster, who is a sole writer at a company which has a significant body of unstructured documentation, and who is thinking about experimenting with structure. As you say, the kind of far-reaching information integration you are talking about requires disciplines and resources that span the entire company, and that simly didn't seem like a possibility in the context of the OP's query. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: structured Frame Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:44:13 +1000 (EST) Fred Ridder wrote: There *are* some real benefits, but they tend to be less quantifiable tangible and harder to proove to managers or business analysts who have to sign off on the budget and implementation plan. The gains in collaboration and writing a topic only once, which are generally more demonstrable, become more significant as the number of writers increases, and the big cost savings come when you're doing single-sourcing and/or translation. My point was just that for a single writer producing documents in a single language with a low degree of single- sourcing, it will be harder to make a compelling *business* case for adopting structure. No, no, no, no, no. You're starting at the wrong end. Data is not created to showcase the talents of technical writers - it's a serious corporate asset. The reason that organizations haven't done more interesting and valuable things like implementing configuration management from requirements right through coding and down to the user documentation is that it has been too hard due to disparate data formats, systems that won't talk to each other and an unwillingness for documentation people to cooperate with each other. Much as I dislike the term silos, that is precisely what a lot of documentation efforts produce. A structured silo might look nice and work well for the tech writer, but it's still just a silo. Tech writers willing to embrace structure are faced with a unique opportunity to add significant value to the whole organization, but they should not be expected to do it by themselves. In fact, it's unlikely that they would be capable of doing it themselves, any more than a database designer would be capable of putting together elegant documentation. Nonetheless, a tech writer willing to assist with improving corporate-wide data integration is a valuable resource. Is this going to be the easiest path for the tech writer? Nope - it would be far easier just to design nice documentation. Would it be a good career move? Yes, provided your management recognizes the opportunity. Is it good for the organization? Unquestionably - documents are done for. It's information now. Marcus Carr ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/docudoc%40hotmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. _ Share your special parenting moments! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured Frame
The fundamental issue is Return on Investment (ROI), whether the staff is one writer or 100. Here are the major cost factors that must be evaluated: A Realizable positive values of a structured solution. 1. A breakdown of the identifiable costs of the current unstructured methodology which can be reduced or eliminated by a structured approach. Most of these are reducible labor costs. 2. What needed current and future improvements in information management and productivity, not realizable under the unstructured approach, could be implemented under a structured approach. Consider not only current needs, but also predictable future needs which are only feasible under a structured approach. Estimate the long-term positive value to the enterprise of these improvements. B. Estimated negative costs of conversion to the structured approach 1. Cost of new software. 2. Cost of development to initially implement a structured approach. 3. The cost of training activities needed to implement the structured approach. C. Any additional positive and negative cost factors associated with the transition to a strucured approach. One probable positive value is that many employees outside the writing group will discover that they now have much more cost-effective ways to precisely locate and retrieve technical document information they need to perform their tasks. If you can assign realistic positive and negative numbers to the listed factors, and the positive values substantially exceed the new negative costs, you may be able to make the case for a structured approach. = ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured Frame
Fred, Good summary. I have one thing to add and one disagreement... For the average author, the biggest advantage of structured Frame might be simply the superiority of the authoring environment. It is so much easier to navigate, select, cut/paste, move, and format your content when you have a structure tree to work with (things which, as an author, I do A LOT). It takes time to get to know all the little tricks, but once you do, you'll never go back to unstructured Frame. When I do, I get frustrated by the inefficiencies much the same as going back to working with Word. This holds true whether or not you ever actually save as XML and presents a compelling reason to use structured Frame, no matter what. There is an investment involved, but the payoff in authoring/editing efficiency pays you back over and over again. My disagreement is the point about the lone writer. I am a lone writer and I depend heavily on structured Frame. Were I to use unstructured Frame, I would simply not be able to get my job done. It's all about how quickly I can get content on the page and how effectively I can use various single-sourcing techniques that make my workload possible. Russ From: Fred Ridder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: structured Frame To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Since nobody else has chimed in on this one, let me offer a few comments. It seems to me that the big advantages of structured authoring fall into a few general areas: -enhanced ability to publish content in different forms (definition A of single sourcing) -enhanced ability to reuse content in different contexts (definition B of single sourcing) -reduced translation costs from direct reuse of existing translated content modules -more consistent organization of information across different documents -more consistent organization of content written by different writers -more consistent presentation of similar information types -content is (theoretically) portable across a range of different structured authoring/editing/publishing tools (i.e. you're not locked into a proprietary file format) For a lone writer, unless you have a significant requirement for single sourcing (under either or both definitions of the term), or have your documents translated into a lot of languages, the return on investment for migrating to a structured documentation environment is likely to be rather small. The big payoffs from a financial standpoint (the key ingredient of the business case for converting) stem from the reuse of content. This is a direct, demonstrable, quanitifiable benefit. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame
Miriam Boral wrote: I'm the sole tech writer for a very small company, but we have a large suite of documentation. I'm beginning to teach myself structured Frame both because I feel it's the way of the future (and therefore worth learning) and also to explore how it might (or might not) be beneficial to the company I work for. I'm interested in hearing from others about their experience working with it and how they feel it benefits their work. In all likelihood it will be beneficial to the company that you work for, as XML provides access to the data that your company does not currently have. If they can't leverage from it, it will be for one of two reasons - they're either not trying hard enough, or the data that you're providing them with is inadequate for their purposes. Your interests are aligned with those of the company - if you wish to learn about doing structure well, you need to provide the company with something that works. That means analyzing dataflows and developing plans for the broad and long term use of information within the company. Developing structures that make it easy or interesting to author good hardcopy will probably fall well short of what could be accomplished. Without meaning any disrespect, you probably would benefit from getting a consultant in to help. Money spent now may prevent you from wasting a lot of time later. Disclaimer - among other things I'm a consultant, but my company hasn't done a FrameMaker project for a couple of years at least. The principles apply no matter what the application. Marcus Carr ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: structured Frame (another Fred heard from)
Miriam asked about the benefits of structured Frame. Fred Ridder suggested that the payoff for a small writing group might not be big. This question comes up periodically on this list, but I guess it is always new to someone and therefore always worth answering. I too am a sole writer. I've been using structured Frame since Frame 7 came out. I think it is well worth the effort even if you don't have to do any of the things that Fred mentions in his list of good reasons for structured authoring. Unless you are really good about following a style guide, an unstructured doc set eventually accrues all sorts of inconsistencies, both deliberate and unintentional. The process of designing a good EDD and migrating your files to it will help weed out these inconsistencies and get your doc set into real good shape. Then, going forward, the formatting rules built into your structure will help ensure consistency. You won't have to remember which of all your para and char formats you have to use in which situations. You just have to remember that a para goes under a section, a listItem does under a list, and so on. You wrap a class name in a class element and so on. Everything works. You will also be able to take advantage of a variety of plug-ins that take advantage of structured Frame and make life easier. You should expect to continue to revise your EDD over time, since you won't think of everything the first time through. Sometimes that forces you to do some revising of manuals, because you've come up with a more elegant structure, but often you just have to reimport the EDD and everything magically works. Just think of it as a better work environment than an unstructured app and don't worry about single-sourcing and translation, etc. (unless you really do have to worry about those things.) Fred -- Fred Wersan Senior Technical Writer MAK Technologies 68 Moulton St. Cambridge, MA 02138 617-876-8085 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured Frame
Russ, I've never said that using structured authoring in a single-writer department didn't have significant advantages compared to non-structured authoring. There *are* some real benefits, but they tend to be less quantifiable tangible and harder to proove to managers or business analysts who have to sign off on the budget and implementation plan. The gains in collaboration and writing a topic only once, which are generally more demonstrable, become more significant as the number of writers increases, and the big cost savings come when you're doing single-sourcing and/or translation. My point was just that for a single writer producing documents in a single language with a low degree of single- sourcing, it will be harder to make a compelling *business* case for adopting structure. Also, my comments were made in the context of Miriam's stated situation where she is dealing with a a large suite of documentation. It may make a lot of sense for her to use structured Frame for new documents going forward, but the case for converting all of the legacy documentation is less clear to me. Besides the fact that the productivity gains will be smaller for converted existing documents, it is very common to underestimate the amount of time (and cost) it will take to properly convert legacy documents. Yes, you can automate the tagging, but that doesn't mean that the content actually matches the structure as it is written. (If it did all conform already, you wouldn't really be gaining much direct benefit from using structure, would you?) -Fred Ridder From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: structured Frame Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:08:25 -0700 Fred, Good summary. I have one thing to add and one disagreement... For the average author, the biggest advantage of structured Frame might be simply the superiority of the authoring environment. It is so much easier to navigate, select, cut/paste, move, and format your content when you have a structure tree to work with (things which, as an author, I do A LOT). It takes time to get to know all the little tricks, but once you do, you'll never go back to unstructured Frame. When I do, I get frustrated by the inefficiencies much the same as going back to working with Word. This holds true whether or not you ever actually save as XML and presents a compelling reason to use structured Frame, no matter what. There is an investment involved, but the payoff in authoring/editing efficiency pays you back over and over again. My disagreement is the point about the lone writer. I am a lone writer and I depend heavily on structured Frame. Were I to use unstructured Frame, I would simply not be able to get my job done. It's all about how quickly I can get content on the page and how effectively I can use various single-sourcing techniques that make my workload possible. Russ From: Fred Ridder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: structured Frame To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Since nobody else has chimed in on this one, let me offer a few comments. It seems to me that the big advantages of structured authoring fall into a few general areas: -enhanced ability to publish content in different forms (definition A of single sourcing) -enhanced ability to reuse content in different contexts (definition B of single sourcing) -reduced translation costs from direct reuse of existing translated content modules -more consistent organization of information across different documents -more consistent organization of content written by different writers -more consistent presentation of similar information types -content is (theoretically) portable across a range of different structured authoring/editing/publishing tools (i.e. you're not locked into a proprietary file format) For a lone writer, unless you have a significant requirement for single sourcing (under either or both definitions of the term), or have your documents translated into a lot of languages, the return on investment for migrating to a structured documentation environment is likely to be rather small. The big payoffs from a financial standpoint (the key ingredient of the business case for converting) stem from the reuse of content. This is a direct, demonstrable, quanitifiable benefit. _ Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft® Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured Frame
Fred, Your points are well-taken and I didn't mean to be confrontational. I just thought that your return on investment . . . is likely to be rather small statement might not be completely true. I didn't realize that you were speaking in terms of making a business case. Indeed, it is very, very difficult to quantify and justify authoring conveniences. How can you possibly put a dollar value on something like numbered lists that always start at 1 automatically? I know the value as a writer, because I've done it umpteenbillion times and after a while, the savings really add up. I wouldn't know how to put that in a proposal, though. Luckily, I've not had to do that yet. Russ Original Message Subject: RE: structured Frame From: Fred Ridder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, September 11, 2007 11:54 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], framers@lists.frameusers.com Russ, I've never said that using structured authoring in a single-writer department didn't have significant advantages compared to non-structured authoring. There *are* some real benefits, but they tend to be less quantifiable tangible and harder to proove to managers or business analysts who have to sign off on the budget and implementation plan. The gains in collaboration and writing a topic only once, which are generally more demonstrable, become more significant as the number of writers increases, and the big cost savings come when you're doing single-sourcing and/or translation. My point was just that for a single writer producing documents in a single language with a low degree of single- sourcing, it will be harder to make a compelling *business* case for adopting structure. Also, my comments were made in the context of Miriam's stated situation where she is dealing with a a large suite of documentation. It may make a lot of sense for her to use structured Frame for new documents going forward, but the case for converting all of the legacy documentation is less clear to me. Besides the fact that the productivity gains will be smaller for converted existing documents, it is very common to underestimate the amount of time (and cost) it will take to properly convert legacy documents. Yes, you can automate the tagging, but that doesn't mean that the content actually matches the structure as it is written. (If it did all conform already, you wouldn't really be gaining much direct benefit from using structure, would you?) -Fred Ridder From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: structured Frame Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:08:25 -0700 Fred, Good summary. I have one thing to add and one disagreement... For the average author, the biggest advantage of structured Frame might be simply the superiority of the authoring environment. It is so much easier to navigate, select, cut/paste, move, and format your content when you have a structure tree to work with (things which, as an author, I do A LOT). It takes time to get to know all the little tricks, but once you do, you'll never go back to unstructured Frame. When I do, I get frustrated by the inefficiencies much the same as going back to working with Word. This holds true whether or not you ever actually save as XML and presents a compelling reason to use structured Frame, no matter what. There is an investment involved, but the payoff in authoring/editing efficiency pays you back over and over again. My disagreement is the point about the lone writer. I am a lone writer and I depend heavily on structured Frame. Were I to use unstructured Frame, I would simply not be able to get my job done. It's all about how quickly I can get content on the page and how effectively I can use various single-sourcing techniques that make my workload possible. Russ From: Fred Ridder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: structured Frame To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Since nobody else has chimed in on this one, let me offer a few comments. It seems to me that the big advantages of structured authoring fall into a few general areas: -enhanced ability to publish content in different forms (definition A of single sourcing) -enhanced ability to reuse content in different contexts (definition B of single sourcing) -reduced translation costs from direct reuse of existing translated content modules -more consistent organization of information across different documents -more consistent organization of content written by different writers -more consistent presentation of similar information types -content is (theoretically) portable across a range of different structured authoring/editing/publishing tools (i.e. you're not locked into a proprietary file format) For a lone writer, unless you have a significant requirement for single sourcing (under either or both definitions of the term), or have your documents translated into a lot of languages, the return on investment
RE: structured Frame
Me,too...thanks, Kelly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Boral Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 5:09 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: structured Frame Hello Everyone, I'm the sole tech writer for a very small company, but we have a large suite of documentation. I'm beginning to teach myself structured Frame both because I feel it's the way of the future (and therefore worth learning) and also to explore how it might (or might not) be beneficial to the company I work for. I'm interested in hearing from others about their experience working with it and how they feel it benefits their work. Thanks very much. Miriam Boral ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/kmcdaniel%40pavtech. com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: structured Frame
Since nobody else has chimed in on this one, let me offer a few comments. It seems to me that the big advantages of structured authoring fall into a few general areas: -enhanced ability to publish content in different forms (definition A of single sourcing) -enhanced ability to reuse content in different contexts (definition B of single sourcing) -reduced translation costs from direct reuse of existing translated content modules -more consistent organization of information across different documents -more consistent organization of content written by different writers -more consistent presentation of similar information types -content is (theoretically) portable across a range of different structured authoring/editing/publishing tools (i.e. you're not locked into a proprietary file format) For a lone writer, unless you have a significant requirement for single sourcing (under either or both definitions of the term), or have your documents translated into a lot of languages, the return on investment for migrating to a structured documentation environment is likely to be rather small. The big payoffs from a financial standpoint (the key ingredient of the business case for converting) stem from the reuse of content. This is a direct, demonstrable, quanitifiable benefit. From an internal organizational standpoint, the big benefits are the ability to avoid editing the same information multiple times in multiple source files for multiple deliverables, and the enahnced ability to use content from multiple writers. Both of these can yield improvements in productivity, but the improvements are much larger in departments with multiple writers. This is a direct benefit that can be hard to quantify, and which will not be apparent immeidately because productivity often falls off for months while writers become comfortable with the new tools and new way they have to approach their work. The big payoff from the customer's standpoint is the improved consistency and predictability that comes from adherence to a defined document structure. There may also be a long-term benefit in faster development/update cycles for documentation. In the long run, the customer benefits may be the biggest payoff, but because they are an indirect benefit they are very hard to quantify. Because it can take so long before the advantages of implementing structured authoring are obvious, it's important to get a commitment from management that has a long enough term to get you over the hump. There have been many cases where the setup/conversion costs and initial reduction in productivity has caused management to pull the plug before the tipping point is reached. One useful strategy to avoid this is to do a small, *non-critical* project as a pilot so that you can demonstrate feasability before asking for a longer-term commitment to a full rollout. Fred Ridder From: Miriam Boral [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: structured Frame Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 05:09:19 -0500 Hello Everyone, I'm the sole tech writer for a very small company, but we have a large suite of documentation. I'm beginning to teach myself structured Frame both because I feel it's the way of the future (and therefore worth learning) and also to explore how it might (or might not) be beneficial to the company I work for. I'm interested in hearing from others about their experience working with it and how they feel it benefits their work. Thanks very much. Miriam Boral _ More photos; more messages; more whatever. Windows Live Hotmail - NOW with 5GB storage. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_5G_0907 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Question
Hi Nancy, Yes, but the book's structure may not be valid. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Hi all, Is it possible to mix unstructured Frame files with structured Frame files in the same book? Thanks, Nancy Adams ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame Question
A work around for this is to create an element that can contain ANY content. For example, our Book element contains a TOC element. In the EDD, the TOC is a container with the General rule ANY. When you add the generated toc file to the book, it's tag is Book-Component. In the structure view for the book file, wrap the Book-Component element in the TOC element. Now the book is valid, even though the toc is an unstructured file. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] rs.com] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Structured Frame Question Hi Nancy, Yes, but the book's structure may not be valid. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Hi all, Is it possible to mix unstructured Frame files with structured Frame files in the same book? Thanks, Nancy Adams ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mike.feimster%40acst echnologies.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Question
On 8/9/07, Mike Feimster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now the book is valid, even though the toc is an unstructured file. IMO, this is an unfortunate failing of FM or simply a missing feature. FM should be able to produce structured generated files. could be perhaps accomplished by adding element information to the reference page building blocks. It's not too difficult to do using Framescript and I have done it for a couple of projects in the past. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame Question
On Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:39 PM, Eric Dunn wrote: | On 8/9/07, Mike Feimster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Now the book is valid, even though the toc is an unstructured file. | | IMO, this is an unfortunate failing of FM or simply a missing feature. | | FM should be able to produce structured generated files. could be | perhaps accomplished by adding element information to the reference | page building blocks. | | It's not too difficult to do using Framescript and I have done it for | a couple of projects in the past. It is unfortunate that generated documents are not structured, but it is also rather easy to use FrameMaker's conversion table feature to apply a structure to them, as these are usually not very complicated hierarchies, if one does not have FrameScript. Of course, this has to be redone after generating a new/updated version of the files (TOC, LOF, etc.) or at least, before you need a completely valid fully structured book, which itself is an ideal task for automating with FrameScript... :-) - Lester --- Lester C. Smalley Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com Information Consultants, Inc. Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712 Yorklyn, DE 19736 Web: www.infocon.com --- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame saving XML
Trevor: Because our XML files are managed by a source control system, ... ... you are using the wrong tool. Source control systems are meant for program source code where line breaks have meaning, usually to separate program statements. You need an XML-aware content management system that understands that whitespace (CR, LF, TAB, etc.) must be ignored and that the position of attributes in element tags does not matter. So don't blame FrameMaker. All XML editors are deficient in this regard if you examine their source code. But then they all obey the rules, so this doesn't matter. Regards, Hedley -- Hedley Finger Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist MYOB Australia Pty Ltd http://myob.com/au P.O. box 371 Blackburn VIC 3130 Australia 12 Wesley Court Tally Ho Business Park East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia mailto:hedleyDOTfingerATmyobDOTcom Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421, Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558 © MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame saving XML
As well as the other suggestions re read/write rules, perhaps you could turn Smart Spaces off. -- Hedley Finger Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist MYOB Australia Pty Ltd http://myob.com/au P.O. box 371 Blackburn VIC 3130 Australia 12 Wesley Court Tally Ho Business Park East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia mailto:hedleyDOTfingerATmyobDOTcom Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421, Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558 © MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame saving XML
Trevor Nicholls wrote: Our source documents are in XML and we edit in structured Frame. I have XSL processes running successfully on Open and Save and I have no issues with the validity of the XML which Frame is giving me. However I do have an issue with the layout. Because our XML files are managed by a source control system, I would like to minimize the differences between revisions, and Frame's apparent perversity regarding line-wrapping in particular is making this difficult. Well, I'm just a dumb unstructured author, but I thought the whole point of XML, SGML, etc., was to separate content from presentation. If line wrapping isn't presentation, I don't know what is. Maybe I'm confused and don't understand your question. But what does the line wrapping (or other page layout matters) have to do with the XML file that you're source-controlling? Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame saving XML
Well... suppose we have a source code fragment following this kind of model:
codelabel {
word(parameter)
long-word (parameter, parameter)
}/code
where the 'code' element has the #FIXED attributes 'formatted=yes' and
'xml:space=preserve' in the DTD.
We want to preserve the line breaks and internal spacing of this element.
This was sufficient to achieve this when we were using 100% XML tools like
Saxon and libxml. Evidently not for Frame. The first change I made was to
introduce a nl element into the DTD which our presentation process
recognizes as a marker for a newline, thus the above would be written in our
initial XML file as:
codelabel {nl /
word(parameter)nl /
long-word (parameter, parameter)nl /
}/code
The first problem is that if Frame's line breaking is so minded, the
internal spacing of this element will be subverted. That's because the line
breaking seems unconcerned about the number of following/preceding spaces.
The second problem is that when I try and recover the spacing within
Framemaker, even though the 'code' element is formatted in a fixed width
font as per the EDD rules, the alignment is neither roundtrippable nor (hard
to believe) is it even predictable at the character level (by which I mean
that words shift by extra fractions of a space as characters are inserted or
deleted).
Does this make sense?
Cheers
Trevor
-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 3 March 2007 4:28 a.m.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Structured Frame saving XML
Trevor Nicholls wrote:
Our source documents are in XML and we edit in structured
Frame. I have XSL processes running successfully on Open and
Save and I have no issues with the validity of the XML which
Frame is giving me. However I do have an issue with the
layout. Because our XML files are managed by a source control
system, I would like to minimize the differences between
revisions, and Frame's apparent perversity regarding
line-wrapping in particular is making this difficult.
Well, I'm just a dumb unstructured author, but I thought the whole point
of XML, SGML, etc., was to separate content from presentation. If line
wrapping isn't presentation, I don't know what is.
Maybe I'm confused and don't understand your question. But what does the
line wrapping (or other page layout matters) have to do with the XML
file that you're source-controlling?
Richard
--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame saving XML
From: Trevor Nicholls [EMAIL PROTECTED] Because our XML files are managed by a source control system, I would like to minimize the differences between revisions, and Frame's apparent perversity regarding line-wrapping in particular is making this difficult. Is it following any rules at all? Can we know what they are? Can we change them? What perversity? Yes, text wrap does follow rules, you can know what the rules are, and you can change them. Of course, you should expect the wrap to change between revisions. I mean, you're changing the text, right? What you should not expect is for the text wrap to change in text that has not been revised. Unchanged text should wrap exactly the same way every time you flow it in. Most of the controls that affect text wrap are to be found in the Advanced tab of Paragraph Designer. But, of course, things like indents and font size will affect it as well. Kenneth Benson Pegasus Type, Inc. www.pegtype.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame saving XML
Regarding the internal spacing and line breaks within the XML...
The description I've always lived by is that Frame creates equivalent, not
exact XML (or SGML). I recall a few posts by Dan E relating to things that
change like entity names and XRef Id's.
Have you tried using the files in your Structured App (R/W Rules, DTD EDD)
to tighten up the export to XML?
After that, possibly an FDK fix, or script(s) to normalize the file with
your specific XML requirements?
-Matt Sullivan
GRAFIX Training, Inc.
An Adobe Authorized Training Center
www.grafixtraining.com
888 882-2819
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Trevor Nicholls
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:52 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Structured Frame saving XML
Well... suppose we have a source code fragment following this kind of model:
codelabel {
word(parameter)
long-word (parameter, parameter)
}/code
where the 'code' element has the #FIXED attributes 'formatted=yes' and
'xml:space=preserve' in the DTD.
We want to preserve the line breaks and internal spacing of this element.
This was sufficient to achieve this when we were using 100% XML tools like
Saxon and libxml. Evidently not for Frame. The first change I made was to
introduce a nl element into the DTD which our presentation process
recognizes as a marker for a newline, thus the above would be written in our
initial XML file as:
codelabel {nl /
word(parameter)nl /
long-word (parameter, parameter)nl /
}/code
The first problem is that if Frame's line breaking is so minded, the
internal spacing of this element will be subverted. That's because the line
breaking seems unconcerned about the number of following/preceding spaces.
The second problem is that when I try and recover the spacing within
Framemaker, even though the 'code' element is formatted in a fixed width
font as per the EDD rules, the alignment is neither roundtrippable nor (hard
to believe) is it even predictable at the character level (by which I mean
that words shift by extra fractions of a space as characters are inserted or
deleted).
Does this make sense?
Cheers
Trevor
-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 3 March 2007 4:28 a.m.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Structured Frame saving XML
Trevor Nicholls wrote:
Our source documents are in XML and we edit in structured
Frame. I have XSL processes running successfully on Open and
Save and I have no issues with the validity of the XML which
Frame is giving me. However I do have an issue with the
layout. Because our XML files are managed by a source control
system, I would like to minimize the differences between
revisions, and Frame's apparent perversity regarding
line-wrapping in particular is making this difficult.
Well, I'm just a dumb unstructured author, but I thought the whole point
of XML, SGML, etc., was to separate content from presentation. If line
wrapping isn't presentation, I don't know what is.
Maybe I'm confused and don't understand your question. But what does the
line wrapping (or other page layout matters) have to do with the XML
file that you're source-controlling?
Richard
--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40grafixtraining.co
m
Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structured Frame s-l-o-w-l-y opening a document
Trevor, This is my experience with long XML files as well. I'm pretty sure it is caused by the application of formatting by the EDD, which takes some time when it has to evaluate formatting rules element-by-element for 500 pages. It doesn't need to do this for a .FM file, because the formatting metadata is already assigned in the binary. So, I think it's just the nature of the tool, and your complaint is quite reasonable. At the FrameMaker Chautauqua, I mentioned this problem to the development manager, and have subsequently made it a personal rule-of-thumb to keep all XML files less than 100 pages (as formatted). I don't know what the real answer might be, but I'm confident that this handicap (among others) will have to change if FrameMaker wants to stay a serious contender in the XML space. Russ -- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:49:36 +1300 From: Trevor Nicholls [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Structured Frame s-l-o-w-l-y opening a document To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi I was interested to read the recent discussions about (why/why not) use structured Framemaker. I started with Framemaker at version 7.2, have never known anything but structured authoring, and adopting unstructured authoring doesn't appeal to me as a positive move in any way. However, that's by the by. I have an application which uses structured Frame as its document editor. The documents themselves are stored as XML files and, apart from one bottleneck, the application works satisfactorily. That bottleneck is the time taken by Frame to open an XML document. Illustrative timings: On a 1.7GHz/1Gb machine: 85 seconds from 'File Open myfile.xml' to being presented with the document in Framemaker. On a 3.5GHz/2Gb machine: 60 seconds. Framemaker runs an XSL step which tweaks the XML for Frame (wrapping graphic elements inside wrapper, adjusting table contents, pulling included subfiles inline, etc.). Xalan runs this stylesheet outside of Frame in less than 4 seconds. (Just in case this isn't widely known, Frame uses a version of Xalan as its XSL engine.) If I load the file, clear the structured application, and save the full document as a .FM file, then re-start Frame, I can start editing the document within 5 seconds of entering 'File Open myfile.fm'. So the document load time breaks down into: 4 seconds to run the initial XSL 76 seconds for Frame to put the temporary XML file into native FM form 5 seconds to load the FM document Although myfile.xml is small, pulling in all the included subdocuments produces a document of some 500 pages or so. I'm not expecting the file load process to be instantaneous, but a minute and a half is unacceptable. What options do I have, if any, for reducing the 76 second overhead? Cheers Trevor ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Structured Frame Maker issue
At 11:15 PM 8/8/2006, Venkatesh wrote: 1. I have defined an element Index as EMPTY. 2. I have defined another element Glossary with some sub elements. 3. My book is defined with the above elements as optional with only one occurrence in it (Glossary?, Index?) 4. I have included both these elements in the TOC when generating it. The issue that I am facing is that I am getting the Glossary listing in the TOC but not the Index listing. I have tried the following to solve the issue but was unsuccessful. 1. Changed the Index element to contain a IndexHead element and using the IndexHead element in the TOC - Did not work. 2. Changed the Index element General Rule to IndexHead,TEXT and included the Index element in the TOC - Did not work. 3. Changed the Index element General Rule to IndexHead, IndexBody and included the IndexHead element in TOC - Did not work. 4. Same as above but included the IndexBody element instead - Did not work. Venkatesh, Entries in a TOC for a book are derived from elements or paragraphs in book components (the files in the book). Elements in the book itself cannot contribute to the TOC. Thus, if you add an empty Index element to your book, even if you set up the TOC to include Index, there will be no entry. Similarly, if you define Index to include IndexHead, and set up the TOC to include IndexHead, there will be no entry. If you want the Index element to correspond to an index generated by FrameMaker, define Index with a general rule of TEXT. Add an index to the book the way you would add an index to an unstructured book. A BOOK-COMPONENT bubble will appear in the Structure View for the book. Select this bubble and wrap an Index element around it so that your book structure is valid. Since the generated index is an unstructured file, you make its TOC entry by including a paragraph rather than an element in the TOC. Keeping the generated index unstructured, insert a title at the beginning of the index, using a paragraph format (such as IndexHead) that you do not use elsewhere. Make sure this paragraph format is defined in the paragraph catalog for the index. Then import paragraph formats from the index into the book so that this paragraph format is available when you set up the TOC. Set up the TOC to include this paragraph format. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
