Re: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

[Craig, Alison]

Rick:

Until my company was purchased 3 years ago we used ADT International (formerly 
Anthea Languages) out of France. They did excellent work for us over a period 
of 8 years and the price was extremely competitive (I did a comprehensive RFP 
once and nobody could beat their prices).

Our Copenhagen office - which now manages our translations as well - has used 
nlg out of Greece for years and is very happy with their work. Their prices are 
extremely competitive as well.

Back in 2012, we also tried TransPerfect (for one job). They were good, but 
measurably more expensive.

http://www.adt-international.com/en/
http://www.nlgworldwide.com/
http://www.transperfect.com/services/translation.html

Alison Craig
Technical Documentation Specialist
acr...@bkultrasound.com<mailto:acr...@bkultrasound.com> | 
bkultrasound.com


From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 5:46 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

Hi Framers,

I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
client. Thank you.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com<mailto:r...@frameexpert.com>






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Re: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

[John Sgammato]

After a careful search a few years ago, we went with globalvision (
http://globalvis.com/).
They translate our 480pp CLI Reference doc into Japanese about twice a
year. We use unstructured FM 2015. Starting with the most recent release,
the doc has included conditionalized content, which they got right.
We have been very happy with the service, the price, and the results. They
are very good at explaining every detail of the complex process.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Rick Quatro  wrote:

> Hi Framers,
>
> I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
> translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
> recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
> client. Thank you.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> 585-366-4017
> r...@frameexpert.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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>



-- 

*John Sgammato, Documentation Architect*
*e* john.sgamm...@actifio.com  *c* 508.927.2083
*t* @actifiodocs 

333 Wyman Street, Waltham, MA 02451




*Manage, access, and protect your data with a single platform that saves
you time, money, and complexity.*
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Re: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

[tammyvb]

Jeremy Melton at Interworld Translations


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Rick Quatro <r...@rickquatro.com> 
Date: 8/10/16  6:45 PM  (GMT-07:00) 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators 

Hi Framers,

I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
client. Thank you.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com






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Re: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

[Gillian Flato]

Rick,

Use Multiling http://www.multiling.com/   Go with a 
real translation vendor so you get a quality translation.

-Gillian
> On Aug 10, 2016, at 5:45 PM, Rick Quatro  wrote:
> 
> Hi Framers,
> 
> I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
> translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
> recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
> client. Thank you.
> 
> Rick
> 
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> 585-366-4017
> r...@frameexpert.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

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[Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Framers,

I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
client. Thank you.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com






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Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Andersen, Verner Engell VEA]

My English manual with 300+ screen shots is now going to be updated and
then translated into 6 languages. The screen shots are to be localized.
I use SnagIt 7.2.3.

I plan to give them my English manual with the English screen shots as
links. The idea is that they replace the English screen shots with the
localised ones.
 
I realize that I may help the translators in different ways, so that it
is easier for them to get the screen shots into Framemaker without
having to rescale them.
 
Maybe I should have 2 or 3 standard. dpi settings for imported graphics?
Which ones do you suggest?
For some screens I have minimized the application window before I take
the screen shot in order to display all screen texts in a readable way
in Framemaker.
 
What are your guidelines for translators who are to take screen shots?
What are you guidelines for importing screen shots into Framemaker?
 
 
Med venlig hilsen - Best regards
Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
Phone +45 3827 3612
Fax +45 3827 2727
verner.ander...@radiometer.dk




Radiometer Medical ApS 
Akandevej 21 
2700 Bronshoj 
Denmark 
Phone: +45 38 27 38 27 
CVR: 27 50 91 85 
 


Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information.
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RE: Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Reng, Winfried]

Hi Verner, 

I take also the screenshots in other languages. Translators
could not deal with our software, and if I had to explain
how they could open a specific window, I rather do it myself.
I have a multilingual Windows, so that all buttons (also
buttons like Cancel) will have the correct language.

I do not scale any screenshot in a picture editor. And I also
do not have screenshots of parts of windows. Thus windows in
other languages have the same size. Screenshots are only
scaled in FrameMaker. If I exchange the screenshot of a
language with that of another language in another size,
no rescaling is needed. I use EPS for the import in FrameMaker.

I know that some people request scaling in a picture editor
as part of their workflow. In my oppinion this is a waste
of time. The scaling is done in the Distiller.

Best regards

Winfried

 -Original Message-
 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
 Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
 Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:04 PM
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com; FrameMaker discussion list 
 (omsys) (FrameMaker discussion list(omsys))
 Subject: Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots
 
 My English manual with 300+ screen shots is now going to be 
 updated and
 then translated into 6 languages. The screen shots are to be 
 localized.
 I use SnagIt 7.2.3.
 
 I plan to give them my English manual with the English screen shots as
 links. The idea is that they replace the English screen shots with the
 localised ones.
  
 I realize that I may help the translators in different ways, 
 so that it
 is easier for them to get the screen shots into Framemaker without
 having to rescale them.
  
 Maybe I should have 2 or 3 standard. dpi settings for 
 imported graphics?
 Which ones do you suggest?
 For some screens I have minimized the application window before I take
 the screen shot in order to display all screen texts in a readable way
 in Framemaker.
  
 What are your guidelines for translators who are to take screen shots?
 What are you guidelines for importing screen shots into Framemaker?
  
  
 Med venlig hilsen - Best regards
 Verner Andersen
 Technical Writer
 
 Radiometer Medical ApS
 Phone +45 3827 3612
 Fax +45 3827 2727
 verner.ander...@radiometer.dk
 
 
 
 
 Radiometer Medical ApS 
 Akandevej 21 
 2700 Bronshoj 
 Denmark 
 Phone: +45 38 27 38 27 
 CVR: 27 50 91 85 
  
 
 
 Please be advised that this email may contain confidential 
 information.
  If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy or
 re-transmit this email.  If you have received this email in error,
 please notify us by email by replying to the sender and by telephone
 (call us collect at +1 202-828-0850) and delete this message and any
 attachments.  Thank you in advance for your cooperation and 
 assistance.
 
 In addition, Danaher and its subsidiaries disclaim that the content of
 this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, 
 any
 contract or agreement or any amendment thereto; provided that the
 foregoing disclaimer does not invalidate the binding effect of any
 digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is
 included in any attachment to this email.
 ___
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Re: Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Art Campbell]

If I were you, I'd provide a set of directories, one for each
language, each containing a set of graphics with the same name so FM
can just pull them in without modification. Then the translators would
just plug in the correct directory, or you would only provide the
correct one initially.

Unless the screen change size a great deal based on the text content,
I would just match whatever DPI you're already using. I usually use
200 or 240 in Snagit, but have gone down as far as 166 -- depends if
you're delivering print and/or PDFs, or oneline help, or something
else -- in general though, you can always scale down; you can't always
(successfully) scale up.

Art

Art Campbell
   art.campb...@gmail.com
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 7:03 AM, Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
verner.ander...@radiometer.dk wrote:
 My English manual with 300+ screen shots is now going to be updated and
 then translated into 6 languages. The screen shots are to be localized.
 I use SnagIt 7.2.3.

 I plan to give them my English manual with the English screen shots as
 links. The idea is that they replace the English screen shots with the
 localised ones.

 I realize that I may help the translators in different ways, so that it
 is easier for them to get the screen shots into Framemaker without
 having to rescale them.

 Maybe I should have 2 or 3 standard. dpi settings for imported graphics?
 Which ones do you suggest?
 For some screens I have minimized the application window before I take
 the screen shot in order to display all screen texts in a readable way
 in Framemaker.

 What are your guidelines for translators who are to take screen shots?
 What are you guidelines for importing screen shots into Framemaker?


 Med venlig hilsen - Best regards
 Verner Andersen
 Technical Writer

 Radiometer Medical ApS
 Phone +45 3827 3612
 Fax +45 3827 2727
 verner.ander...@radiometer.dk
 



 Radiometer Medical ApS
 Akandevej 21
 2700 Bronshoj
 Denmark
 Phone: +45 38 27 38 27
 CVR: 27 50 91 85

 

 Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information.
  If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy or
 re-transmit this email.  If you have received this email in error,
 please notify us by email by replying to the sender and by telephone
 (call us collect at +1 202-828-0850) and delete this message and any
 attachments.  Thank you in advance for your cooperation and assistance.

 In addition, Danaher and its subsidiaries disclaim that the content of
 this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of,
 any
 contract or agreement or any amendment thereto; provided that the
 foregoing disclaimer does not invalidate the binding effect of any
 digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is
 included in any attachment to this email.
 ___


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RE: Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Martinek, Carla]

I second Art's suggestion on duplicate graphic folders for each
language, with localized files named the same as the originals. It's
exactly what we do with our translations. (We translate into 30
languages).

-Carla
 
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Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Andersen, Verner Engell VEA]

My English manual with 300+ screen shots is now going to be updated and
then translated into 6 languages. The screen shots are to be localized.
I use SnagIt 7.2.3.

I plan to give them my English manual with the English screen shots as
links. The idea is that they replace the English screen shots with the
localised ones.

I realize that I may help the translators in different ways, so that it
is easier for them to get the screen shots into Framemaker without
having to rescale them.

Maybe I should have 2 or 3 standard. dpi settings for imported graphics?
Which ones do you suggest?
For some screens I have minimized the application window before I take
the screen shot in order to display all screen texts in a readable way
in Framemaker.

What are your guidelines for translators who are to take screen shots?
What are you guidelines for importing screen shots into Framemaker?


Med venlig hilsen - Best regards
Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
Phone +45 3827 3612
Fax +45 3827 2727
verner.andersen at radiometer.dk




Radiometer Medical ApS 
Akandevej 21 
2700 Bronshoj 
Denmark 
Phone: +45 38 27 38 27 
CVR: 27 50 91 85 



Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information.
 If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy or
re-transmit this email.  If you have received this email in error,
please notify us by email by replying to the sender and by telephone
(call us collect at +1 202-828-0850) and delete this message and any
attachments.  Thank you in advance for your cooperation and assistance.

In addition, Danaher and its subsidiaries disclaim that the content of
this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, 
any
contract or agreement or any amendment thereto; provided that the
foregoing disclaimer does not invalidate the binding effect of any
digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is
included in any attachment to this email.

Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Reng, Winfried]

Hi Verner, 

I take also the screenshots in other languages. Translators
could not deal with our software, and if I had to explain
how they could open a specific window, I rather do it myself.
I have a multilingual Windows, so that all buttons (also
buttons like Cancel) will have the correct language.

I do not scale any screenshot in a picture editor. And I also
do not have screenshots of parts of windows. Thus windows in
other languages have the same size. Screenshots are only
scaled in FrameMaker. If I exchange the screenshot of a
language with that of another language in another size,
no rescaling is needed. I use EPS for the import in FrameMaker.

I know that some people request scaling in a picture editor
as part of their workflow. In my oppinion this is a waste
of time. The scaling is done in the Distiller.

Best regards

Winfried

> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:04 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com; FrameMaker discussion list 
> (omsys) (FrameMaker discussion list(omsys))
> Subject: Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots
> 
> My English manual with 300+ screen shots is now going to be 
> updated and
> then translated into 6 languages. The screen shots are to be 
> localized.
> I use SnagIt 7.2.3.
> 
> I plan to give them my English manual with the English screen shots as
> links. The idea is that they replace the English screen shots with the
> localised ones.
>  
> I realize that I may help the translators in different ways, 
> so that it
> is easier for them to get the screen shots into Framemaker without
> having to rescale them.
>  
> Maybe I should have 2 or 3 standard. dpi settings for 
> imported graphics?
> Which ones do you suggest?
> For some screens I have minimized the application window before I take
> the screen shot in order to display all screen texts in a readable way
> in Framemaker.
>  
> What are your guidelines for translators who are to take screen shots?
> What are you guidelines for importing screen shots into Framemaker?
>  
>  
> Med venlig hilsen - Best regards
> Verner Andersen
> Technical Writer
> 
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> Phone +45 3827 3612
> Fax +45 3827 2727
> verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Radiometer Medical ApS 
> Akandevej 21 
> 2700 Bronshoj 
> Denmark 
> Phone: +45 38 27 38 27 
> CVR: 27 50 91 85 
>  
> 
> 
> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential 
> information.
>  If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy or
> re-transmit this email.  If you have received this email in error,
> please notify us by email by replying to the sender and by telephone
> (call us collect at +1 202-828-0850) and delete this message and any
> attachments.  Thank you in advance for your cooperation and 
> assistance.
> 
> In addition, Danaher and its subsidiaries disclaim that the content of
> this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, 
> any
> contract or agreement or any amendment thereto; provided that the
> foregoing disclaimer does not invalidate the binding effect of any
> digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is
> included in any attachment to this email.
> ___

Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Art Campbell]

If I were you, I'd provide a set of directories, one for each
language, each containing a set of graphics with the same name so FM
can just pull them in without modification. Then the translators would
just plug in the correct directory, or you would only provide the
correct one initially.

Unless the screen change size a great deal based on the text content,
I would just match whatever DPI you're already using. I usually use
200 or 240 in Snagit, but have gone down as far as 166 -- depends if
you're delivering print and/or PDFs, or oneline help, or something
else -- in general though, you can always scale down; you can't always
(successfully) scale up.

Art

Art Campbell
   art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 7:03 AM, Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
 wrote:
> My English manual with 300+ screen shots is now going to be updated and
> then translated into 6 languages. The screen shots are to be localized.
> I use SnagIt 7.2.3.
>
> I plan to give them my English manual with the English screen shots as
> links. The idea is that they replace the English screen shots with the
> localised ones.
>
> I realize that I may help the translators in different ways, so that it
> is easier for them to get the screen shots into Framemaker without
> having to rescale them.
>
> Maybe I should have 2 or 3 standard. dpi settings for imported graphics?
> Which ones do you suggest?
> For some screens I have minimized the application window before I take
> the screen shot in order to display all screen texts in a readable way
> in Framemaker.
>
> What are your guidelines for translators who are to take screen shots?
> What are you guidelines for importing screen shots into Framemaker?
>
>
> Med venlig hilsen - Best regards
> Verner Andersen
> Technical Writer
>
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> Phone +45 3827 3612
> Fax +45 3827 2727
> verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
> 
>
>
>
> Radiometer Medical ApS
> Akandevej 21
> 2700 Bronshoj
> Denmark
> Phone: +45 38 27 38 27
> CVR: 27 50 91 85
>
> 
>
> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information.
> ?If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy or
> re-transmit this email. ?If you have received this email in error,
> please notify us by email by replying to the sender and by telephone
> (call us collect at +1 202-828-0850) and delete this message and any
> attachments. ?Thank you in advance for your cooperation and assistance.
>
> In addition, Danaher and its subsidiaries disclaim that the content of
> this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of,
> any
> contract or agreement or any amendment thereto; provided that the
> foregoing disclaimer does not invalidate the binding effect of any
> digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is
> included in any attachment to this email.
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
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>
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>

Off topic: Helping translators with localised screen shots

[Martinek, Carla]

I second Art's suggestion on duplicate graphic folders for each
language, with localized files named the same as the originals. It's
exactly what we do with our translations. (We translate into 30
languages).

-Carla

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Re: Translators and Word vs FM

[Bodvar Bjorgvinsson]

On 1/4/07, Steve Rickaby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:



. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients should be 
able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with them. We 
can, and do.



HumorousMode
Like the US companies doing business over the Internet option Euros, Yens etc.
/HumorousMode
Doing a lot of purchasing from US companies, I still have not come
across one that offers you to pay in any other way than in US$.
Canadian companies are more likely to offer different options for
payment.

So, why should it be any more complicated for a US citizen to purchase
from a foreign country in the local monetary system than vice versa?

Bodvar (going for some Friday morning refreshment). ;-)
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Intercontinental working (was: RE: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM)

[Steve Rickaby]

No sooner had I written 'The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to 
your advantage... This constitutes a sort of double-shift system' than I read 
the following in a book I was editing:

Sometimes the coauthoring is face to face, at other times via e-mail. For 
example, the bulk of the ...[books]... have been written by authors living in 
separate countries and on different continents. Often these author teams 
leverage the differences in time zones to conduct 'round the clock' writing 
sessions!

Think how practical this would have been before the Internet.

-- 
Steve Rickaby
WordMongers Ltd  http://www.wordmongers.com
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Re: Translators and Word vs FM

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:22:16 +, Bodvar Bjorgvinsson 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

So, why should it be any more complicated for a US citizen to purchase
from a foreign country in the local monetary system than vice versa?

Because US banks, unlike those in other countries, charge
extortionate fees for any transaction involving foreigh
exchange.  For example, mine charges $US75 *minimum* to
process a check not in $US.  Even in $CAN.  Canadian banks
are far more accomodating, as are those in the rest of
the world, AFAIK.

Of course, credit-card payment eliminates the problem, as
credit-card companies automatically handle the exchange
at market rates.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.omsys.com/
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Translators and Word vs FM

[Bodvar Bjorgvinsson]

On 1/4/07, Steve Rickaby  wrote:
> At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

> . Any European company that is interested in working for US clients should be 
> able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with them. We 
> can, and do.
>


Like the US companies doing business over the Internet option Euros, Yens etc.

Doing a lot of purchasing from US companies, I still have not come
across one that offers you to pay in any other way than in US$.
Canadian companies are more likely to offer different options for
payment.

So, why should it be any more complicated for a US citizen to purchase
from a foreign country in the local monetary system than vice versa?

Bodvar (going for some Friday morning refreshment). ;-)

Intercontinental working (was: RE: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM)

[Steve Rickaby]

No sooner had I written 'The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to 
your advantage... This constitutes a sort of double-shift system' than I read 
the following in a book I was editing:

>Sometimes the coauthoring is face to face, at other times via e-mail. For 
>example, the bulk of the ...[books]... have been written by authors living in 
>separate countries and on different continents. Often these author teams 
>leverage the differences in time zones to conduct 'round the clock' writing 
>sessions!

Think how practical this would have been before the Internet.

-- 
Steve Rickaby
WordMongers Ltd  http://www.wordmongers.com

Translators and Word vs FM

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:22:16 +, "Bodvar Bjorgvinsson" 
 wrote:

>So, why should it be any more complicated for a US citizen to purchase
>from a foreign country in the local monetary system than vice versa?

Because US banks, unlike those in other countries, charge
extortionate fees for any transaction involving "foreigh
exchange".  For example, mine charges $US75 *minimum* to
process a check not in $US.  Even in $CAN.  Canadian banks
are far more accomodating, as are those in the rest of
the world, AFAIK.

Of course, credit-card payment eliminates the problem, as
credit-card companies automatically handle the exchange
at market rates.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
http://www.omsys.com/

Re: Translators and Word vs FM

[mathieu jacquet]

I'd like to recommend mine in France (much cheaper!), but I won't do any 
advertising on this forum. ;o)


Mathieu.



From: Susan Curtzwiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FrameMaker framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:00:25 -0800 (PST)

I would like to recommend a translator service in Provo, Utah, MultiLing, 
Corp. They prefer FM, but they also work with Word. Ask for Emmanuel or 
Jeremy and you can use my name as a reference, Sue Curtzwiler.


  This summer, I used MultiLing, Corp, to translate English to German for 
a hardware installation manual, graphics included. The only thing I left in 
English was any text on screen captures.  The manual was in Word and about 
65 pages.


  They did a great job -- after preliminary estimates and Purchase Orders 
were in place, the turnaround time was about 2.5 to 3 weeks.


  Sue Curtzwiler
  Technical Writer
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RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Daniel Doornbos]

I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially less 
expensive.
But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the phone when you want to 
discuss an issue.
And many want payment in Euros, which, for my accounting department, is a major 
problem.
I also use MultiLing, which has given me excellent service at a competitive 
price.
We translate our manuals and UIs into 9 languages.

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mathieu jacquet
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM


I'd like to recommend mine in France (much cheaper!), but I won't do any 
advertising on this forum. ;o)

Mathieu.


From: Susan Curtzwiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FrameMaker framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:00:25 -0800 (PST)

I would like to recommend a translator service in Provo, Utah, 
MultiLing,
Corp. They prefer FM, but they also work with Word. Ask for Emmanuel or 
Jeremy and you can use my name as a reference, Sue Curtzwiler.

   This summer, I used MultiLing, Corp, to translate English to German 
for
a hardware installation manual, graphics included. The only thing I left in 
English was any text on screen captures.  The manual was in Word and about 
65 pages.

   They did a great job -- after preliminary estimates and Purchase 
Orders
were in place, the turnaround time was about 2.5 to 3 weeks.

   Sue Curtzwiler
   Technical Writer ___


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RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Steve Rickaby]

At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially less 
expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the phone when 
you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in Euros, which, for my 
accounting department, is a major problem.

We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European end of 
things:

. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients should be 
able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with them. We 
can, and do.

. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for 
crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as quickly as 
you'd like, stop using them.

. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: we come 
on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a whole working day 
before the West seaboard and we're working away while you're asleep. This 
constitutes a sort of double-shift system ;-)

Our US clients are happy, and we're happy working for them. The Internet 
shrinks the world: everyone benefits.

-- 
Steve Rickaby
WordMongers Ltd  http://www.wordmongers.com
___


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RE: Translators

[Diane Gaskill]

Mathiew,

Contact the localization vendor SDL International about that.  As you
probably know, they bought Trados about a year or so ago.   I don't have a
recent copy of the Translators Workbench, I was just passing on what they
told me when they sent us a bid on a job.  Considering what you just told
me, maybe I need to contact them myself just to double check.

Diane

-Original Message-
From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators


Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including
the
S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
not have to have or use Word files.

I'm using the SDLX (Trados 7.x, I thought it was the latest) Workbench and I
still have to do a .mif to .rtf conversion before translating... So I still
use Word for my translation. Which Workbench version are you talking about
Diane?

The problem is not much that some translators are using Word and only Word,
but rather that they do not have the STagger filter to perform the back
conversion from .rtf to .mif (this is straightforward if no tag is crushed,
which is easily checkable through the Verify STag function).

Mathieu.

From: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Combs, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED],Andersen, Verner Engell
VEA [EMAIL PROTECTED],framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:38:51 -0800

Verner, all,

I agree with Richard.  I've just now finished some in-depth research on
this
for my company.  We are converting from Word to FM and will be localizing
our docs.  While you can easily convert FM to clean, usable, RTF via
Mif2go,
getting the Word file back to FM is not straightforward.  You can use a 3rd
party vendor like Enlaso to do it for you, but there do not seem to be any
good Word-FM filters on the market.  As I'm sure most of you know, the
filters in FM are not what you might call robust, to put it nicely.  They
are the old Mastersoft filters that Adobe added when they bought FM, just
to
say that FM could import Word. I do not know if they have ever been
updated,
but I can definitely tell you that they do not work well.  They convert
text
just fine, but not graphics, and tables often require a lot of cleanup
before they are usable.  Fortunatly there are tools such as Tablecleaner
Pro
to handle that.

The better solution is to hire a localization vendor that can take FM files
and give you back FM files.  Most of them can.  But if you choose to use
in-house linguists, and some of them do not want to use a new tool, fire
them and hire people who will.  Yes, I am serious.  Having managed pubs for
ten years, I believe that professional people who are worth keeping do not
bury their heads in the sand and refuse to learn new tools.  You have a job
to get done.  Tell them that they either do what is needed to help keep
your
company profitable or they can find a company that uses only Word. I'm sure
there are some out there.

Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including
the
S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
not have to have or use Word files.

One other note regarding localization, Word, and FM.  Many localization
vendors will charge you 20% MORE to translate Word files than FM files.
There are two reasons for this:
1) Graphics are generally embedded in Word.  The vendor will have to
take
those with text in them out of Word, translate the text, and manually put
them back.  This can cost as much as $25 per graphic, per language, and it
adds up fast.  I'm sure I don't have to explain how FM eliminates this
procedure.
2)Word is well known to have several major problems, including unstable
autonumbering and crashing if the files are large.  You get charged for the
extra time the vendor has to take to re-do work because of those problems.

Diane Gaskill
Hitachi Data Systems
==

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Combs, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:00 AM
To: Andersen, Verner Engell VEA; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators


Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote:

  We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22
  translators will use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some,
  however, will only us MS Word as they cannot or will not
  learn a new tool.
 
  How do we give them a Word file?

While it's possible, by various methods others have suggested, why would
your company want to incurr the extra expense and trouble of repeatedly
converting from FM to Word and back again?

It seems to me that if you've decided to migrate to FM, you've decided
to migrate to FM -- why do translators who cannot or will not learn a
new tool get to veto that decision? If they won't accommodate your
company's decision

About hiring an L10N vendor Was: RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Diane Gaskill]

Every once in a while, someone on the list asks about L10N vendors, and
usually a few people graciously recommend the vendor they are using.
Nothing wrong with that, but I'd like to offer a little caveat to anyone
considering hiring a L10N vendor.

While it's all well and good to recommend a specific vendor because they did
a good job for a particular company, that does not necessarily mean that the
particular vendor can do a good job for everyone.  I would encourage anyone
who needs L10N services to screen and hire a localization vendor the same
way you would screen and hire a technical writer.  A good technical writer
can write, but you also need to hire a writer that has technical knowledge
in the product area that your company makes.  For example, would you hire
someone who has lots of experience writing repair manuals for jet engines to
write a software manual for a network management application?

Similarly, the linguists who localize your documents should have technical
knowledge in your company's product area, and it would be helpful if they
have knowledge of how your customers use the products.  Linguists do not
translate word-by-word.  Instead, they translate sentences, paragraphs, and
ideas, and they need to understand something about the source material to do
that.

Most established L10N vendors have a pool of linguists with both language
specialties and technical specalties.  Check with the vendor and make sure
that they have the right combination of linguistic and technical experience
to do the work you need.

Diane
=

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Daniel Doornbos
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:37 AM
To: mathieu jacquet; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM


I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially
less expensive.
But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the phone when you want
to discuss an issue.
And many want payment in Euros, which, for my accounting department, is a
major problem.
I also use MultiLing, which has given me excellent service at a competitive
price.
We translate our manuals and UIs into 9 languages.

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of mathieu jacquet
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM


I'd like to recommend mine in France (much cheaper!), but I won't do any
advertising on this forum. ;o)

Mathieu.


From: Susan Curtzwiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FrameMaker framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:00:25 -0800 (PST)

I would like to recommend a translator service in Provo, Utah,
MultiLing,
Corp. They prefer FM, but they also work with Word. Ask for Emmanuel or
Jeremy and you can use my name as a reference, Sue Curtzwiler.

   This summer, I used MultiLing, Corp, to translate English to German
for
a hardware installation manual, graphics included. The only thing I left in
English was any text on screen captures.  The manual was in Word and about
65 pages.

   They did a great job -- after preliminary estimates and Purchase
Orders
were in place, the turnaround time was about 2.5 to 3 weeks.

   Sue Curtzwiler
   Technical Writer ___


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OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[mathieu jacquet]

I totally agree with you Steve. I'm hired half time in France by an American 
company based in Everett (WA), and we hold call conference on a daily basis, 
there's absolutely no problem with that. We're just asked to wake up later. 
It is no big deal to me. :o))


When you work in the translation business, the first rule is to get your 
documents preferably translated by native speakers living in their own 
country (not corrupt by the language of the country they live in). You 
have to contact people living in Japan, Russia, Norway, Brazil, etc. The Web 
is the best way to do it. A translator who does not reply straight away is a 
translator out of the database...


Mathieu



From: Steve Rickaby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Daniel Doornbos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: framers@FrameUsers.com
Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:01:33 +

At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially 
less expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the 
phone when you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in Euros, 
which, for my accounting department, is a major problem.


We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European end of 
things:


. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients should 
be able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with 
them. We can, and do.


. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for 
crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as quickly 
as you'd like, stop using them.


. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: we 
come on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a whole 
working day before the West seaboard and we're working away while you're 
asleep. This constitutes a sort of double-shift system ;-)


Our US clients are happy, and we're happy working for them. The Internet 
shrinks the world: everyone benefits.


--
Steve Rickaby
WordMongers Ltd  http://www.wordmongers.com
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RE: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Daniel Doornbos]

Mathieu brings up an important issue about in-country translation by
native speakers of the target language. Having been forced to use
material translated by machine or by so-called translators with minimal
skill in the target language, I agree that in-country native is the
way to go.

However, the fact that you might use a full-service translation firm
does not mean that the translation work is done at one location. I have
used US and European translation companies. In both cases, the actual
work was done in-country by native translators contracting for the
company.

In my case, as a lone writer, I do not have the time or resources to
coordinate translation projects with 9 different people in 9 separate
countries, then take their work and assemble it into a single volume for
printing and distribution. A full-service company, who manages the
project and the individual translators, and gives me a single PDF built
to specification, is the only reasonable solution.

As Diane noted in a separate string, Check with the vendor and make
sure that they have the right combination of linguistic and technical
experience to do the work you need.
 
Daniel

-Original Message-
From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daniel Doornbos
Cc: framers@FrameUsers.com
Subject: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM


I totally agree with you Steve. I'm hired half time in France by an
American 
company based in Everett (WA), and we hold call conference on a daily
basis, 
there's absolutely no problem with that. We're just asked to wake up
later. 
It is no big deal to me. :o))

When you work in the translation business, the first rule is to get your

documents preferably translated by native speakers living in their own 
country (not corrupt by the language of the country they live in). You

have to contact people living in Japan, Russia, Norway, Brazil, etc. The
Web 
is the best way to do it. A translator who does not reply straight away
is a 
translator out of the database...

Mathieu


From: Steve Rickaby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Daniel Doornbos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: framers@FrameUsers.com
Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:01:33 +

At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

 I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be 
 substantially
less expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the
phone when you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in
Euros, 
which, for my accounting department, is a major problem.

We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European 
end of
things:

. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients 
should
be able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with

them. We can, and do.

. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for
crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as
quickly 
as you'd like, stop using them.

. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: 
we
come on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a whole 
working day before the West seaboard and we're working away while
you're 
asleep. This constitutes a sort of double-shift system ;-)

Our US clients are happy, and we're happy working for them. The 
Internet
shrinks the world: everyone benefits.

--
Steve Rickaby
WordMongers Ltd
http://www.wordmongers.com
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Translators

[mathieu jacquet]

>Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including 
>the
>S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
>not have to have or use Word files.

I'm using the SDLX (Trados 7.x, I thought it was the latest) Workbench and I 
still have to do a .mif to .rtf conversion before translating... So I still 
use Word for my translation. Which Workbench version are you talking about 
Diane?

The problem is not much that some translators are using Word and only Word, 
but rather that they do not have the STagger filter to perform the back 
conversion from .rtf to .mif (this is straightforward if no tag is crushed, 
which is easily checkable through the Verify STag function).

Mathieu.

>From: "Diane Gaskill" 
>To: "Combs, Richard" ,"Andersen, Verner Engell 
>VEA" ,
>Subject: RE: Translators
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:38:51 -0800
>
>Verner, all,
>
>I agree with Richard.  I've just now finished some in-depth research on 
>this
>for my company.  We are converting from Word to FM and will be localizing
>our docs.  While you can easily convert FM to clean, usable, RTF via 
>Mif2go,
>getting the Word file back to FM is not straightforward.  You can use a 3rd
>party vendor like Enlaso to do it for you, but there do not seem to be any
>good Word->FM filters on the market.  As I'm sure most of you know, the
>filters in FM are not what you might call robust, to put it nicely.  They
>are the old Mastersoft filters that Adobe added when they bought FM, just 
>to
>say that FM could import Word. I do not know if they have ever been 
>updated,
>but I can definitely tell you that they do not work well.  They convert 
>text
>just fine, but not graphics, and tables often require a lot of cleanup
>before they are usable.  Fortunatly there are tools such as Tablecleaner 
>Pro
>to handle that.
>
>The better solution is to hire a localization vendor that can take FM files
>and give you back FM files.  Most of them can.  But if you choose to use
>in-house linguists, and some of them do not want to use a new tool, fire
>them and hire people who will.  Yes, I am serious.  Having managed pubs for
>ten years, I believe that professional people who are worth keeping do not
>bury their heads in the sand and refuse to learn new tools.  You have a job
>to get done.  Tell them that they either do what is needed to help keep 
>your
>company profitable or they can find a company that uses only Word. I'm sure
>there are some out there.
>
>Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including 
>the
>S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
>not have to have or use Word files.
>
>One other note regarding localization, Word, and FM.  Many localization
>vendors will charge you 20% MORE to translate Word files than FM files.
>There are two reasons for this:
>1) Graphics are generally embedded in Word.  The vendor will have to 
>take
>those with text in them out of Word, translate the text, and manually put
>them back.  This can cost as much as $25 per graphic, per language, and it
>adds up fast.  I'm sure I don't have to explain how FM eliminates this
>procedure.
>2)Word is well known to have several major problems, including unstable
>autonumbering and crashing if the files are large.  You get charged for the
>extra time the vendor has to take to re-do work because of those problems.
>
>Diane Gaskill
>Hitachi Data Systems
>==
>
>-Original Message-
>From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com
>[mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On
>Behalf Of Combs, Richard
>Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:00 AM
>To: Andersen, Verner Engell VEA; framers at lists.frameusers.com
>Subject: RE: Translators
>
>
>Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote:
>
> > We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22
> > translators will use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some,
> > however, will only us MS Word as they cannot or will not
> > learn a new tool.
> >
> > How do we give them a Word file?
>
>While it's possible, by various methods others have suggested, why would
>your company want to incurr the extra expense and trouble of repeatedly
>converting from FM to Word and back again?
>
>It seems to me that if you've decided to migrate to FM, you've decided
>to migrate to FM -- why do translators who "cannot or will not learn a
>new tool" get to veto that decision? If they won't accommodate your
>company's decision, replace them.
>
>Richard
>
>
>--
>Richard G. Combs
>Senior Technical Writer
>Polycom, Inc.
>richardDOTcomb

Translators and Word vs FM

[mathieu jacquet]

I'd like to recommend mine in France (much cheaper!), but I won't do any 
advertising on this forum. ;o)

Mathieu.


>From: Susan Curtzwiler 
>To: FrameMaker 
>Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:00:25 -0800 (PST)
>
>I would like to recommend a translator service in Provo, Utah, MultiLing, 
>Corp. They prefer FM, but they also work with Word. Ask for Emmanuel or 
>Jeremy and you can use my name as a reference, Sue Curtzwiler.
>
>   This summer, I used MultiLing, Corp, to translate English to German for 
>a hardware installation manual, graphics included. The only thing I left in 
>English was any text on screen captures.  The manual was in Word and about 
>65 pages.
>
>   They did a great job -- after preliminary estimates and Purchase Orders 
>were in place, the turnaround time was about 2.5 to 3 weeks.
>
>   Sue Curtzwiler
>   Technical Writer
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to Framers as bobitch at hotmail.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit 
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bobitch%40hotmail.com
>
>Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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Translators and Word vs FM

[Daniel Doornbos]

I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially less 
expensive.
But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the phone when you want to 
discuss an issue.
And many want payment in Euros, which, for my accounting department, is a major 
problem.
I also use MultiLing, which has given me excellent service at a competitive 
price.
We translate our manuals and UIs into 9 languages.

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+danield=promise.com at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-bounces+danield=promise@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
mathieu jacquet
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:52 AM
To: smcurtzwiler at sbcglobal.net; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM


I'd like to recommend mine in France (much cheaper!), but I won't do any 
advertising on this forum. ;o)

Mathieu.


>From: Susan Curtzwiler 
>To: FrameMaker 
>Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:00:25 -0800 (PST)
>
>I would like to recommend a translator service in Provo, Utah, 
>MultiLing,
>Corp. They prefer FM, but they also work with Word. Ask for Emmanuel or 
>Jeremy and you can use my name as a reference, Sue Curtzwiler.
>
>   This summer, I used MultiLing, Corp, to translate English to German 
>for
>a hardware installation manual, graphics included. The only thing I left in 
>English was any text on screen captures.  The manual was in Word and about 
>65 pages.
>
>   They did a great job -- after preliminary estimates and Purchase 
>Orders
>were in place, the turnaround time was about 2.5 to 3 weeks.
>
>   Sue Curtzwiler
>   Technical Writer ___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to Framers as bobitch at hotmail.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bobitch%40hotmail.com
>
>Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit 
>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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Translators and Word vs FM

[Steve Rickaby]

At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

>I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially less 
>expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the phone when 
>you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in Euros, which, for my 
>accounting department, is a major problem.

We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European end of 
things:

. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients should be 
able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with them. We 
can, and do.

. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for 
crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as quickly as 
you'd like, stop using them.

. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: we come 
on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a whole working day 
before the West seaboard and we're working away while you're asleep. This 
constitutes a sort of double-shift system ;-)

Our US clients are happy, and we're happy working for them. The Internet 
shrinks the world: everyone benefits.

-- 
Steve Rickaby
WordMongers Ltd  http://www.wordmongers.com

Translators

[Diane Gaskill]

Mathiew,

Contact the localization vendor SDL International about that.  As you
probably know, they bought Trados about a year or so ago.   I don't have a
recent copy of the Translators Workbench, I was just passing on what they
told me when they sent us a bid on a job.  Considering what you just told
me, maybe I need to contact them myself just to double check.

Diane

-Original Message-
From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:bobi...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:50 AM
To: dgcaller at earthlink.net; richard.combs at Polycom.com;
verner.andersen at radiometer.dk; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators


>Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including
>the
>S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
>not have to have or use Word files.

I'm using the SDLX (Trados 7.x, I thought it was the latest) Workbench and I
still have to do a .mif to .rtf conversion before translating... So I still
use Word for my translation. Which Workbench version are you talking about
Diane?

The problem is not much that some translators are using Word and only Word,
but rather that they do not have the STagger filter to perform the back
conversion from .rtf to .mif (this is straightforward if no tag is crushed,
which is easily checkable through the Verify STag function).

Mathieu.

>From: "Diane Gaskill" 
>To: "Combs, Richard" ,"Andersen, Verner Engell
>VEA" ,
>Subject: RE: Translators
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:38:51 -0800
>
>Verner, all,
>
>I agree with Richard.  I've just now finished some in-depth research on
>this
>for my company.  We are converting from Word to FM and will be localizing
>our docs.  While you can easily convert FM to clean, usable, RTF via
>Mif2go,
>getting the Word file back to FM is not straightforward.  You can use a 3rd
>party vendor like Enlaso to do it for you, but there do not seem to be any
>good Word->FM filters on the market.  As I'm sure most of you know, the
>filters in FM are not what you might call robust, to put it nicely.  They
>are the old Mastersoft filters that Adobe added when they bought FM, just
>to
>say that FM could import Word. I do not know if they have ever been
>updated,
>but I can definitely tell you that they do not work well.  They convert
>text
>just fine, but not graphics, and tables often require a lot of cleanup
>before they are usable.  Fortunatly there are tools such as Tablecleaner
>Pro
>to handle that.
>
>The better solution is to hire a localization vendor that can take FM files
>and give you back FM files.  Most of them can.  But if you choose to use
>in-house linguists, and some of them do not want to use a new tool, fire
>them and hire people who will.  Yes, I am serious.  Having managed pubs for
>ten years, I believe that professional people who are worth keeping do not
>bury their heads in the sand and refuse to learn new tools.  You have a job
>to get done.  Tell them that they either do what is needed to help keep
>your
>company profitable or they can find a company that uses only Word. I'm sure
>there are some out there.
>
>Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including
>the
>S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
>not have to have or use Word files.
>
>One other note regarding localization, Word, and FM.  Many localization
>vendors will charge you 20% MORE to translate Word files than FM files.
>There are two reasons for this:
>1) Graphics are generally embedded in Word.  The vendor will have to
>take
>those with text in them out of Word, translate the text, and manually put
>them back.  This can cost as much as $25 per graphic, per language, and it
>adds up fast.  I'm sure I don't have to explain how FM eliminates this
>procedure.
>2)Word is well known to have several major problems, including unstable
>autonumbering and crashing if the files are large.  You get charged for the
>extra time the vendor has to take to re-do work because of those problems.
>
>Diane Gaskill
>Hitachi Data Systems
>==
>
>-Original Message-
>From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com
>[mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On
>Behalf Of Combs, Richard
>Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:00 AM
>To: Andersen, Verner Engell VEA; framers at lists.frameusers.com
>Subject: RE: Translators
>
>
>Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote:
>
> > We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22
> > translators will use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some,
> > however, will only us MS Word as they cannot or will not
> > learn a new tool.
> >
> > Ho

About hiring an L10N vendor Was: RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Diane Gaskill]

Every once in a while, someone on the list asks about L10N vendors, and
usually a few people graciously recommend the vendor they are using.
Nothing wrong with that, but I'd like to offer a little caveat to anyone
considering hiring a L10N vendor.

While it's all well and good to recommend a specific vendor because they did
a good job for a particular company, that does not necessarily mean that the
particular vendor can do a good job for everyone.  I would encourage anyone
who needs L10N services to screen and hire a localization vendor the same
way you would screen and hire a technical writer.  A good technical writer
can write, but you also need to hire a writer that has technical knowledge
in the product area that your company makes.  For example, would you hire
someone who has lots of experience writing repair manuals for jet engines to
write a software manual for a network management application?

Similarly, the linguists who localize your documents should have technical
knowledge in your company's product area, and it would be helpful if they
have knowledge of how your customers use the products.  Linguists do not
translate word-by-word.  Instead, they translate sentences, paragraphs, and
ideas, and they need to understand something about the source material to do
that.

Most established L10N vendors have a pool of linguists with both language
specialties and technical specalties.  Check with the vendor and make sure
that they have the right combination of linguistic and technical experience
to do the work you need.

Diane
=

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On
Behalf Of Daniel Doornbos
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:37 AM
To: mathieu jacquet; smcurtzwiler at sbcglobal.net;
framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM


I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially
less expensive.
But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the phone when you want
to discuss an issue.
And many want payment in Euros, which, for my accounting department, is a
major problem.
I also use MultiLing, which has given me excellent service at a competitive
price.
We translate our manuals and UIs into 9 languages.

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+danield=promise@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+danield=promise.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
Of mathieu jacquet
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:52 AM
To: smcurtzwiler at sbcglobal.net; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM


I'd like to recommend mine in France (much cheaper!), but I won't do any
advertising on this forum. ;o)

Mathieu.


>From: Susan Curtzwiler 
>To: FrameMaker 
>Subject: Re: Translators and Word vs FM
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:00:25 -0800 (PST)
>
>I would like to recommend a translator service in Provo, Utah,
>MultiLing,
>Corp. They prefer FM, but they also work with Word. Ask for Emmanuel or
>Jeremy and you can use my name as a reference, Sue Curtzwiler.
>
>   This summer, I used MultiLing, Corp, to translate English to German
>for
>a hardware installation manual, graphics included. The only thing I left in
>English was any text on screen captures.  The manual was in Word and about
>65 pages.
>
>   They did a great job -- after preliminary estimates and Purchase
>Orders
>were in place, the turnaround time was about 2.5 to 3 weeks.
>
>   Sue Curtzwiler
>   Technical Writer ___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to Framers as bobitch at hotmail.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bobitch%40hotmail.com
>
>Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[mathieu jacquet]

I totally agree with you Steve. I'm hired half time in France by an American 
company based in Everett (WA), and we hold call conference on a daily basis, 
there's absolutely no problem with that. We're just asked to wake up later. 
It is no big deal to me. :o))

When you work in the translation business, the first rule is to get your 
documents preferably translated by native speakers living in their own 
country (not "corrupt" by the language of the country they live in). You 
have to contact people living in Japan, Russia, Norway, Brazil, etc. The Web 
is the best way to do it. A translator who does not reply straight away is a 
translator out of the database...

Mathieu


>From: Steve Rickaby 
>To: "Daniel Doornbos" 
>CC: framers at FrameUsers.com
>Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM
>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:01:33 +
>
>At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:
>
> >I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be substantially 
>less expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the 
>phone when you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in Euros, 
>which, for my accounting department, is a major problem.
>
>We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European end of 
>things:
>
>. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients should 
>be able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with 
>them. We can, and do.
>
>. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for 
>crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as quickly 
>as you'd like, stop using them.
>
>. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: we 
>come on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a whole 
>working day before the West seaboard and we're working away while you're 
>asleep. This constitutes a sort of double-shift system ;-)
>
>Our US clients are happy, and we're happy working for them. The Internet 
>shrinks the world: everyone benefits.
>
>--
>Steve Rickaby
>WordMongers Ltd http://www.wordmongers.com
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to Framers as bobitch at hotmail.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit 
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bobitch%40hotmail.com
>
>Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Daniel Doornbos]

Mathieu brings up an important issue about in-country translation by
native speakers of the target language. Having been forced to use
material translated by machine or by so-called translators with minimal
skill in the target language, I agree that "in-country native" is the
way to go.

However, the fact that you might use a full-service translation firm
does not mean that the translation work is done at one location. I have
used US and European translation companies. In both cases, the actual
work was done in-country by native translators contracting for the
company.

In my case, as a lone writer, I do not have the time or resources to
coordinate translation projects with 9 different people in 9 separate
countries, then take their work and assemble it into a single volume for
printing and distribution. A full-service company, who manages the
project and the individual translators, and gives me a single PDF built
to specification, is the only reasonable solution.

As Diane noted in a separate string, "Check with the vendor and make
sure that they have the right combination of linguistic and technical
experience to do the work you need."

Daniel

-Original Message-
From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:bobi...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:04 PM
To: srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk; Daniel Doornbos
Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com
Subject: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM


I totally agree with you Steve. I'm hired half time in France by an
American 
company based in Everett (WA), and we hold call conference on a daily
basis, 
there's absolutely no problem with that. We're just asked to wake up
later. 
It is no big deal to me. :o))

When you work in the translation business, the first rule is to get your

documents preferably translated by native speakers living in their own 
country (not "corrupt" by the language of the country they live in). You

have to contact people living in Japan, Russia, Norway, Brazil, etc. The
Web 
is the best way to do it. A translator who does not reply straight away
is a 
translator out of the database...

Mathieu


>From: Steve Rickaby 
>To: "Daniel Doornbos" 
>CC: framers at FrameUsers.com
>Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM
>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:01:33 +
>
>At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:
>
> >I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be 
> >substantially
>less expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the
>phone when you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in
Euros, 
>which, for my accounting department, is a major problem.
>
>We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European 
>end of
>things:
>
>. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients 
>should
>be able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with

>them. We can, and do.
>
>. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for
>crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as
quickly 
>as you'd like, stop using them.
>
>. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: 
>we
>come on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a whole 
>working day before the West seaboard and we're working away while
you're 
>asleep. This constitutes a sort of double-shift system ;-)
>
>Our US clients are happy, and we're happy working for them. The 
>Internet
>shrinks the world: everyone benefits.
>
>--
>Steve Rickaby
>WordMongers Ltd
http://www.wordmongers.com
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to Framers as bobitch at hotmail.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit
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om
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OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Susan Curtzwiler]

Regarding MultiLing, the translation service that I recommended: They have 
teams in the countries they represent for their services. For example, my 
document was sent to Germany. At the location in Germany, there was a product 
manager and their team also had a technical background. Therefore, I felt I 
could trust their work.  They were highly recommended to me by another writer 
who had been using them for several years. 

  Regards,
  Sue 


Daniel Doornbos  wrote:
  Mathieu brings up an important issue about in-country translation by
native speakers of the target language. Having been forced to use
material translated by machine or by so-called translators with minimal
skill in the target language, I agree that "in-country native" is the
way to go.

However, the fact that you might use a full-service translation firm
does not mean that the translation work is done at one location. I have
used US and European translation companies. In both cases, the actual
work was done in-country by native translators contracting for the
company.

In my case, as a lone writer, I do not have the time or resources to
coordinate translation projects with 9 different people in 9 separate
countries, then take their work and assemble it into a single volume for
printing and distribution. A full-service company, who manages the
project and the individual translators, and gives me a single PDF built
to specification, is the only reasonable solution.

As Diane noted in a separate string, "Check with the vendor and make
sure that they have the right combination of linguistic and technical
experience to do the work you need."

Daniel

-Original Message-
From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:bobi...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:04 PM
To: srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk; Daniel Doornbos
Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com
Subject: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM


I totally agree with you Steve. I'm hired half time in France by an
American 
company based in Everett (WA), and we hold call conference on a daily
basis, 
there's absolutely no problem with that. We're just asked to wake up
later. 
It is no big deal to me. :o))

When you work in the translation business, the first rule is to get your

documents preferably translated by native speakers living in their own 
country (not "corrupt" by the language of the country they live in). You

have to contact people living in Japan, Russia, Norway, Brazil, etc. The
Web 
is the best way to do it. A translator who does not reply straight away
is a 
translator out of the database...

Mathieu


>From: Steve Rickaby 
>To: "Daniel Doornbos" 
>CC: framers at FrameUsers.com
>Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM
>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:01:33 +
>
>At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:
>
> >I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be 
> >substantially
>less expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the
>phone when you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in
Euros, 
>which, for my accounting department, is a major problem.
>
>We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European 
>end of
>things:
>
>. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients 
>should
>be able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with

>them. We can, and do.
>
>. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for
>crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as
quickly 
>as you'd like, stop using them.
>
>. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: 
>we
>come on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a whole 
>working day before the West seaboard and we're working away while
you're 
>asleep. This constitutes a sort of double-shift system ;-)
>
>Our US clients are happy, and we're happy working for them. The 
>Internet
>shrinks the world: everyone benefits.
>
>--
>Steve Rickaby
>WordMongers Ltd
http://www.wordmongers.com
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to Framers as bobitch at hotmail.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bobitch%40hotmail.c
om
>
>Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit 
>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM

[Diane Gaskill]

Daniel is right.  Most full service companies have offices in many countries 
and the actual localization work is done there.  There is a good reason for 
this.  Standard practice is to use a linguist who is a native speaker in the 
target language and who has near-native fluency in the source language to do 
the work.  And as discussed earlier, the linguist must also be technical.  Most 
full service vendors, BTW, test their linguists before hiring them.

However, not all translation is done overseas.  Some vendors have local offices 
where linguists from other countries come and work.  But the linguists almost 
always visit their home country on a regular basis so that they don't lose the 
language and can keep up on anything new.  For example, new words are being 
invented in the high tech industry on a regular basis.  Widget.  Gizmo.  
Thingamabob.  Watchamacallit.  etc.  :-)  

BTW, there are several books on L10N out there that that explain all of this 
and more, including the one I wrote and those by a few of the larger vendors.

Diane


-Original Message-
>From: Daniel Doornbos 
>Sent: Jan 4, 2007 4:03 PM
>To: mathieu jacquet , srickaby at 
>wordmongers.demon.co.uk
>Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com
>Subject: RE: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM
>
>Mathieu brings up an important issue about in-country translation by
>native speakers of the target language. Having been forced to use
>material translated by machine or by so-called translators with minimal
>skill in the target language, I agree that "in-country native" is the
>way to go.
>
>However, the fact that you might use a full-service translation firm
>does not mean that the translation work is done at one location. I have
>used US and European translation companies. In both cases, the actual
>work was done in-country by native translators contracting for the
>company.
>
>In my case, as a lone writer, I do not have the time or resources to
>coordinate translation projects with 9 different people in 9 separate
>countries, then take their work and assemble it into a single volume for
>printing and distribution. A full-service company, who manages the
>project and the individual translators, and gives me a single PDF built
>to specification, is the only reasonable solution.
>
>As Diane noted in a separate string, "Check with the vendor and make
>sure that they have the right combination of linguistic and technical
>experience to do the work you need."
> 
>Daniel
>
>-Original Message-
>From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:bobitch at hotmail.com] 
>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:04 PM
>To: srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk; Daniel Doornbos
>Cc: framers at FrameUsers.com
>Subject: OT : RE: Translators and Word vs FM
>
>
>I totally agree with you Steve. I'm hired half time in France by an
>American 
>company based in Everett (WA), and we hold call conference on a daily
>basis, 
>there's absolutely no problem with that. We're just asked to wake up
>later. 
>It is no big deal to me. :o))
>
>When you work in the translation business, the first rule is to get your
>
>documents preferably translated by native speakers living in their own 
>country (not "corrupt" by the language of the country they live in). You
>
>have to contact people living in Japan, Russia, Norway, Brazil, etc. The
>Web 
>is the best way to do it. A translator who does not reply straight away
>is a 
>translator out of the database...
>
>Mathieu
>
>
>>From: Steve Rickaby 
>>To: "Daniel Doornbos" 
>>CC: framers at FrameUsers.com
>>Subject: RE: Translators and Word vs FM
>>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:01:33 +
>>
>>At 09:37 -0800 4/1/07, Daniel Doornbos wrote:
>>
>> >I agree with Mathieu that translators in Europe tend to be 
>> >substantially
>>less expensive. But if you live in the US, it's hard to get them on the
>>phone when you want to discuss an issue. And many want payment in
>Euros, 
>>which, for my accounting department, is a major problem.
>>
>>We're not translators, but I feel I should stick up for the European 
>>end of
>>things:
>>
>>. Any European company that is interested in working for US clients 
>>should
>>be able to quote in US dollars. If they can't or won't, don't work with
>
>>them. We can, and do.
>>
>>. If the phone doesn't work for you, use e-mail: it's a useful tool for
>>crossing time zones. If a contractor doesn't respond to e-mail as
>quickly 
>>as you'd like, stop using them.
>>
>>. The difference in tome-zones can be made to work to your advantage: 
>>we
>>come on-stream half a working day before the East seaboard and a w

Translators

[Andersen, Verner Engell VEA]

Hi

We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22 translators will 
use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some, however, will only us MS Word as they 
cannot or will not learn a new tool.

How do we give them a Word file?

Should we convert from the English Framemaker master files to Word?

Should we buy Adobe Acrobat 8 and convert the pdf file generated from 
Framemaker to Word?

or do you have another solution.

 
Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
Åkandevej 21 ● 2700 Brønshøj ● Denmark
Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.radiometer.com 
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/vea/Application%20Data/Microsoft/Signatures/www.radiometer.com
 

 
This message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee.  
Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on 
the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may 
constitute a violation of law.  If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to 
this e-mail, and delete the message from your system.  If you 
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Re: Translators

[Art Campbell]

FM saves directly as .rtf, Word's transportable format. So that's the
easiest way to go.

Note that several companies offer FM-to-RTF filtering packages that
out perform the native FM filters. I use omsys.com's MIF2Go package
for this and for generating help files.

Note also that you may run into problems with some upper order
character glyphs becasue Word supports Unicode but FM does not.

Art

On 1/3/07, Andersen, Verner Engell VEA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi

We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22 translators will 
use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some, however, will only us MS Word as they 
cannot or will not learn a new tool.

How do we give them a Word file?

Should we convert from the English Framemaker master files to Word?

Should we buy Adobe Acrobat 8 and convert the pdf file generated from 
Framemaker to Word?

or do you have another solution.


Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
Åkandevej 21 ● 2700 Brønshøj ● Denmark
Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.radiometer.com 
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/vea/Application%20Data/Microsoft/Signatures/www.radiometer.com



--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
  and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
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RE: Translators

[mark.poston]

Hi,

Plugins like mif2go can export to RTF that your Word users could make use of. 
You can find more info on this from www.omsys.com.

You do not mention whether you will be using Structured FrameMaker ... I am 
presuming not. However, a solution for Word which would allow you to import 
structured content (XML) would be In.Vision Xpress Author 
(http://www.invisionresearch.com). This is a plugin for Word that provides very 
user friendly XML editing capabilities.

I would not personally go down the PDF route but there are tools that can do a 
good job of it.

If your intention is to re-import the Word content back into FrameMaker then 
the RTF import filter can get content back in for you. There is likely to be 
some cleanup required after import though.

You could use tools such as Mekon's FrameAC to write scripts to help with this.

Of course, XML would be the ideal route to take and is certainly worth 
considering as part of your migration to FrameMaker. With the ever growing use 
of DITA this is a much less painful experience than it might have been several 
years ago.

I hope this helps you a little.

Kind regards

Mark Poston
Senior Consultant
Mekon Ltd.
www.mekon.com
Tel: +44 (0)20 8722 8461
Skype: mark_mekon.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andersen, Verner 
Engell VEA
Sent: 03 January 2007 15:05
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Translators

Hi

We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22 translators will 
use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some, however, will only us MS Word as they 
cannot or will not learn a new tool.

How do we give them a Word file?

Should we convert from the English Framemaker master files to Word?

Should we buy Adobe Acrobat 8 and convert the pdf file generated from 
Framemaker to Word?

or do you have another solution.

 
Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
Åkandevej 21 ● 2700 Brønshøj ● Denmark
Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.radiometer.com 
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/vea/Application%20Data/Microsoft/Signatures/www.radiometer.com
 

 
This message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee.  
Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on 
the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may 
constitute a violation of law.  If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to 
this e-mail, and delete the message from your system.  If you 
have any questions about this e-mail please notify the sender 
immediately.


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RE: Translators

[Combs, Richard]

Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote: 
 
 We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22 
 translators will use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some, 
 however, will only us MS Word as they cannot or will not 
 learn a new tool.
 
 How do we give them a Word file?

While it's possible, by various methods others have suggested, why would
your company want to incurr the extra expense and trouble of repeatedly
converting from FM to Word and back again? 

It seems to me that if you've decided to migrate to FM, you've decided
to migrate to FM -- why do translators who cannot or will not learn a
new tool get to veto that decision? If they won't accommodate your
company's decision, replace them. 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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RE: Translators

[Diane Gaskill]

Verner, all,

I agree with Richard.  I've just now finished some in-depth research on this
for my company.  We are converting from Word to FM and will be localizing
our docs.  While you can easily convert FM to clean, usable, RTF via Mif2go,
getting the Word file back to FM is not straightforward.  You can use a 3rd
party vendor like Enlaso to do it for you, but there do not seem to be any
good Word-FM filters on the market.  As I'm sure most of you know, the
filters in FM are not what you might call robust, to put it nicely.  They
are the old Mastersoft filters that Adobe added when they bought FM, just to
say that FM could import Word. I do not know if they have ever been updated,
but I can definitely tell you that they do not work well.  They convert text
just fine, but not graphics, and tables often require a lot of cleanup
before they are usable.  Fortunatly there are tools such as Tablecleaner Pro
to handle that.

The better solution is to hire a localization vendor that can take FM files
and give you back FM files.  Most of them can.  But if you choose to use
in-house linguists, and some of them do not want to use a new tool, fire
them and hire people who will.  Yes, I am serious.  Having managed pubs for
ten years, I believe that professional people who are worth keeping do not
bury their heads in the sand and refuse to learn new tools.  You have a job
to get done.  Tell them that they either do what is needed to help keep your
company profitable or they can find a company that uses only Word. I'm sure
there are some out there.

Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including the
S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
not have to have or use Word files.

One other note regarding localization, Word, and FM.  Many localization
vendors will charge you 20% MORE to translate Word files than FM files.
There are two reasons for this:
   1) Graphics are generally embedded in Word.  The vendor will have to take
those with text in them out of Word, translate the text, and manually put
them back.  This can cost as much as $25 per graphic, per language, and it
adds up fast.  I'm sure I don't have to explain how FM eliminates this
procedure.
   2)Word is well known to have several major problems, including unstable
autonumbering and crashing if the files are large.  You get charged for the
extra time the vendor has to take to re-do work because of those problems.

Diane Gaskill
Hitachi Data Systems
==

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Combs, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:00 AM
To: Andersen, Verner Engell VEA; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators


Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote:

 We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22
 translators will use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some,
 however, will only us MS Word as they cannot or will not
 learn a new tool.

 How do we give them a Word file?

While it's possible, by various methods others have suggested, why would
your company want to incurr the extra expense and trouble of repeatedly
converting from FM to Word and back again?

It seems to me that if you've decided to migrate to FM, you've decided
to migrate to FM -- why do translators who cannot or will not learn a
new tool get to veto that decision? If they won't accommodate your
company's decision, replace them.

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Translators

[Andersen, Verner Engell VEA]

Hi

We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22 translators will 
use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some, however, will only us MS Word as they 
cannot or will not learn a new tool.

How do we give them a Word file?

Should we convert from the English Framemaker master files to Word?

Should we buy Adobe Acrobat 8 and convert the pdf file generated from 
Framemaker to Word?

or do you have another solution.


Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
?kandevej 21 ? 2700 Br?nsh?j ? Denmark
Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
E-mail: verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
Web: www.radiometer.com 

 


This message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee.  
Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on 
the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may 
constitute a violation of law.  If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to 
this e-mail, and delete the message from your system.  If you 
have any questions about this e-mail please notify the sender 
immediately.

Translators

[mark.pos...@mekon.com]

Hi,

Plugins like mif2go can export to RTF that your Word users could make use of. 
You can find more info on this from www.omsys.com.

You do not mention whether you will be using Structured FrameMaker ... I am 
presuming not. However, a solution for Word which would allow you to import 
structured content (XML) would be In.Vision Xpress Author 
(http://www.invisionresearch.com). This is a plugin for Word that provides very 
user friendly XML editing capabilities.

I would not personally go down the PDF route but there are tools that can do a 
good job of it.

If your intention is to re-import the Word content back into FrameMaker then 
the RTF import filter can get content back in for you. There is likely to be 
some cleanup required after import though.

You could use tools such as Mekon's FrameAC to write scripts to help with this.

Of course, XML would be the ideal route to take and is certainly worth 
considering as part of your migration to FrameMaker. With the ever growing use 
of DITA this is a much less painful experience than it might have been several 
years ago.

I hope this helps you a little.

Kind regards

Mark Poston
Senior Consultant
Mekon Ltd.
www.mekon.com
Tel: +44 (0)20 8722 8461
Skype: mark_mekon.com

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+mark.poston=mekon.com at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-bounces+mark.poston=mekon@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Andersen, Verner Engell VEA
Sent: 03 January 2007 15:05
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Translators

Hi

We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22 translators will 
use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some, however, will only us MS Word as they 
cannot or will not learn a new tool.

How do we give them a Word file?

Should we convert from the English Framemaker master files to Word?

Should we buy Adobe Acrobat 8 and convert the pdf file generated from 
Framemaker to Word?

or do you have another solution.


Verner Andersen
Technical Writer

Radiometer Medical ApS
?kandevej 21 ? 2700 Br?nsh?j ? Denmark
Tel. +45 38 27 36 12
Mobile. + 45 60 62 27 90
E-mail: verner.andersen at radiometer.dk
Web: www.radiometer.com 

 


This message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee.  
Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on 
the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may 
constitute a violation of law.  If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to 
this e-mail, and delete the message from your system.  If you 
have any questions about this e-mail please notify the sender 
immediately.

Translators

[Steve Rickaby]

At 17:28 + 3/1/07,  wrote:

>Of course, XML would be the ideal route to take and is certainly worth 
>considering as part of your migration to FrameMaker. With the ever growing use 
>of DITA this is a much less painful experience than it might have been several 
>years ago.

Undoubtedly true, but as the original poster pointed out that some of his 
translators would refuse to budge from Word, perhaps not practical in this 
particular case.

-- 
Steve

Translators

[Combs, Richard]

Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote: 

> We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22 
> translators will use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some, 
> however, will only us MS Word as they cannot or will not 
> learn a new tool.
> 
> How do we give them a Word file?

While it's possible, by various methods others have suggested, why would
your company want to incurr the extra expense and trouble of repeatedly
converting from FM to Word and back again? 

It seems to me that if you've decided to migrate to FM, you've decided
to migrate to FM -- why do translators who "cannot or will not learn a
new tool" get to veto that decision? If they won't accommodate your
company's decision, replace them. 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Translators

[Diane Gaskill]

Verner, all,

I agree with Richard.  I've just now finished some in-depth research on this
for my company.  We are converting from Word to FM and will be localizing
our docs.  While you can easily convert FM to clean, usable, RTF via Mif2go,
getting the Word file back to FM is not straightforward.  You can use a 3rd
party vendor like Enlaso to do it for you, but there do not seem to be any
good Word->FM filters on the market.  As I'm sure most of you know, the
filters in FM are not what you might call robust, to put it nicely.  They
are the old Mastersoft filters that Adobe added when they bought FM, just to
say that FM could import Word. I do not know if they have ever been updated,
but I can definitely tell you that they do not work well.  They convert text
just fine, but not graphics, and tables often require a lot of cleanup
before they are usable.  Fortunatly there are tools such as Tablecleaner Pro
to handle that.

The better solution is to hire a localization vendor that can take FM files
and give you back FM files.  Most of them can.  But if you choose to use
in-house linguists, and some of them do not want to use a new tool, fire
them and hire people who will.  Yes, I am serious.  Having managed pubs for
ten years, I believe that professional people who are worth keeping do not
bury their heads in the sand and refuse to learn new tools.  You have a job
to get done.  Tell them that they either do what is needed to help keep your
company profitable or they can find a company that uses only Word. I'm sure
there are some out there.

Incidentally, the later versions of the Translators Workbench (including the
S-Tagger) can open MIF files directly and work with them.  The linguists do
not have to have or use Word files.

One other note regarding localization, Word, and FM.  Many localization
vendors will charge you 20% MORE to translate Word files than FM files.
There are two reasons for this:
   1) Graphics are generally embedded in Word.  The vendor will have to take
those with text in them out of Word, translate the text, and manually put
them back.  This can cost as much as $25 per graphic, per language, and it
adds up fast.  I'm sure I don't have to explain how FM eliminates this
procedure.
   2)Word is well known to have several major problems, including unstable
autonumbering and crashing if the files are large.  You get charged for the
extra time the vendor has to take to re-do work because of those problems.

Diane Gaskill
Hitachi Data Systems
==

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On
Behalf Of Combs, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:00 AM
To: Andersen, Verner Engell VEA; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Translators


Andersen, Verner Engell VEA wrote:

> We are migrating from MS Word to Framemaker. Many of our 22
> translators will use FrameMaker or Trados S-tagger. Some,
> however, will only us MS Word as they cannot or will not
> learn a new tool.
>
> How do we give them a Word file?

While it's possible, by various methods others have suggested, why would
your company want to incurr the extra expense and trouble of repeatedly
converting from FM to Word and back again?

It seems to me that if you've decided to migrate to FM, you've decided
to migrate to FM -- why do translators who "cannot or will not learn a
new tool" get to veto that decision? If they won't accommodate your
company's decision, replace them.

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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Translators and Word vs FM

[Susan Curtzwiler]

I would like to recommend a translator service in Provo, Utah, MultiLing, Corp. 
They prefer FM, but they also work with Word. Ask for Emmanuel or Jeremy and 
you can use my name as a reference, Sue Curtzwiler. 

  This summer, I used MultiLing, Corp, to translate English to German for a 
hardware installation manual, graphics included. The only thing I left in 
English was any text on screen captures.  The manual was in Word and about 65 
pages. 

  They did a great job -- after preliminary estimates and Purchase Orders were 
in place, the turnaround time was about 2.5 to 3 weeks. 

  Sue Curtzwiler
  Technical Writer