Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[qui...@airmail.net]

I was lazy and didn't want to reinvent the wheel, so I took DOCBOOK and 
modified the EDD to make it format the way we wanted. Of course with 
heading resetting the numbering system I wanted an automatic way to 
apply the heading formats without reverting to manually setting attributes.

I accomplished this with the recursive sections available in DOCBOOK. So 
the context of Title element in levels of Section elements works. The 
context is:

If context is: {first} < Section
If context is: Section < Section < Section < Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 4
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 3
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Section < Article
Use paragraph format: Heading 4
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 2
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Article
Use paragraph format: Heading 3
Else, if context is: Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 1
Else, if context is: Section < Article
Use paragraph format: Heading 2

Context, level they all work well.

Scott

Chris Despopoulos wrote:
> I thought the idea was to format via the EDD, only. Users should never
> just apply pgf formatting, because it will get lost (as you describe).
> Structure demands template dictatorship on steroids... Or rather, it
> imposes it. To add new pgf formats, and to set up users to apply them,
> you would have to:
> * Create the new formats
> * Modify the EDD and the XML to include attribu.tes
> * Use the attributes to set the current formatting for the given *element*
> * Modify the EDD to set up format rules that map your formats to the
> attribute vals
> * Store all the above in the template
>
> In theory, you could create an attribute that is a list of values, and
> each value is the name of a pgf format. Then you set up format rules for
> every pgf-level element to apply the format that matches the attribute
> value. Then do the same for char, table, and other formats??? But this
> kind of defeats the purpose of structure. The idea with structure is (as
> has already been said) to separate structure from display. You want a
> machine to make the display decisions at the last minute. And FrameMaker
> is just one such machine. By using that principle, then you can automate
> great things, like if you move a section to become a sub-section, all
> the formatting adjusts automatically.
>
> I'm sure you know all this, but maybe you need to remind the customer.
> Or maybe you need to interpret the customer request as a symptom that
> the EDD/DTD is not sufficiently specified for their project. Maybe it's
> time to address more fundamental issues?
>

Re: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[quills]

I was lazy and didn't want to reinvent the wheel, so I took DOCBOOK and 
modified the EDD to make it format the way we wanted. Of course with 
heading resetting the numbering system I wanted an automatic way to 
apply the heading formats without reverting to manually setting attributes.


I accomplished this with the recursive sections available in DOCBOOK. So 
the context of Title element in levels of Section elements works. The 
context is:


If context is: {first} < Section
If context is: Section < Section < Section < Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 4
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 3
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Section < Article
Use paragraph format: Heading 4
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 2
Else, if context is: Section < Section < Article
Use paragraph format: Heading 3
Else, if context is: Section < Chapter
Use paragraph format: Heading 1
Else, if context is: Section < Article
Use paragraph format: Heading 2

Context, level they all work well.

Scott

Chris Despopoulos wrote:

I thought the idea was to format via the EDD, only. Users should never
just apply pgf formatting, because it will get lost (as you describe).
Structure demands template dictatorship on steroids... Or rather, it
imposes it. To add new pgf formats, and to set up users to apply them,
you would have to:
* Create the new formats
* Modify the EDD and the XML to include attribu.tes
* Use the attributes to set the current formatting for the given *element*
* Modify the EDD to set up format rules that map your formats to the
attribute vals
* Store all the above in the template

In theory, you could create an attribute that is a list of values, and
each value is the name of a pgf format. Then you set up format rules for
every pgf-level element to apply the format that matches the attribute
value. Then do the same for char, table, and other formats??? But this
kind of defeats the purpose of structure. The idea with structure is (as
has already been said) to separate structure from display. You want a
machine to make the display decisions at the last minute. And FrameMaker
is just one such machine. By using that principle, then you can automate
great things, like if you move a section to become a sub-section, all
the formatting adjusts automatically.

I'm sure you know all this, but maybe you need to remind the customer.
Or maybe you need to interpret the customer request as a symptom that
the EDD/DTD is not sufficiently specified for their project. Maybe it's
time to address more fundamental issues?


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Re: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Scott Prentice]

Also .. it wasn't clear to me (I may have missed it) if these 
"structured" files are sourced as XML or FM binaries. If structured FM 
binaries, local (non-EDD) formatting will generally stick around, but 
can revert to the EDD-defined formats under certain situations. 
Personally, I find that the structured FM binary route can cause more 
problems than it solves (I know this is not a widely-held belief, so 
take with a grain of salt).  :o


If XML sourced (the "proper" way to do structured authoring in FM .. 
IMHO), heed Chris' advice.


...scott


On 9/11/12 10:45 AM, Chris Despopoulos wrote:
I thought the idea was to format via the EDD, only.  Users should 
never just apply pgf formatting, because it will get lost (as you 
describe).  Structure demands template dictatorship on steroids...  Or 
rather, it imposes it.  To add new pgf formats, and to set up users to 
apply them, you would have to:

* Create the new formats
* Modify the EDD and the XML to include attribu.tes
* Use the attributes to set the current formatting for the given *element*
* Modify the EDD to set up format rules that map your formats to the 
attribute vals

* Store all the above in the template

In theory, you could create an attribute that is a list of values, and 
each value is the name of a pgf format.  Then you set up format rules 
for every pgf-level element to apply the format that matches the 
attribute value.  Then do the same for char, table, and other 
formats???  But this kind of defeats the purpose of structure.  The 
idea with structure is (as has already been said) to separate 
structure from display.  You want a machine to make the display 
decisions at the last minute.  And FrameMaker is just one such 
machine.  By using that principle, then you can automate great things, 
like if you move a section to become a sub-section, all the formatting 
adjusts automatically.


I'm sure you know all this, but maybe you need to remind the customer. 
Or maybe you need to interpret the customer request as a symptom that 
the EDD/DTD is not sufficiently specified for their project.  Maybe 
it's time to address more fundamental issues?





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Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Scott Prentice]

Also .. it wasn't clear to me (I may have missed it) if these 
"structured" files are sourced as XML or FM binaries. If structured FM 
binaries, local (non-EDD) formatting will generally stick around, but 
can revert to the EDD-defined formats under certain situations. 
Personally, I find that the structured FM binary route can cause more 
problems than it solves (I know this is not a widely-held belief, so 
take with a grain of salt).  :o

If XML sourced (the "proper" way to do structured authoring in FM .. 
IMHO), heed Chris' advice.

...scott


On 9/11/12 10:45 AM, Chris Despopoulos wrote:
> I thought the idea was to format via the EDD, only.  Users should 
> never just apply pgf formatting, because it will get lost (as you 
> describe).  Structure demands template dictatorship on steroids...  Or 
> rather, it imposes it.  To add new pgf formats, and to set up users to 
> apply them, you would have to:
> * Create the new formats
> * Modify the EDD and the XML to include attribu.tes
> * Use the attributes to set the current formatting for the given *element*
> * Modify the EDD to set up format rules that map your formats to the 
> attribute vals
> * Store all the above in the template
>
> In theory, you could create an attribute that is a list of values, and 
> each value is the name of a pgf format.  Then you set up format rules 
> for every pgf-level element to apply the format that matches the 
> attribute value.  Then do the same for char, table, and other 
> formats???  But this kind of defeats the purpose of structure.  The 
> idea with structure is (as has already been said) to separate 
> structure from display.  You want a machine to make the display 
> decisions at the last minute.  And FrameMaker is just one such 
> machine.  By using that principle, then you can automate great things, 
> like if you move a section to become a sub-section, all the formatting 
> adjusts automatically.
>
> I'm sure you know all this, but maybe you need to remind the customer. 
> Or maybe you need to interpret the customer request as a symptom that 
> the EDD/DTD is not sufficiently specified for their project.  Maybe 
> it's time to address more fundamental issues?
>
>

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Chris Despopoulos]

I thought the idea was to format via the EDD, only.  Users should never just 
apply pgf formatting, because it will get lost (as you describe).  Structure 
demands template dictatorship on steroids...  Or rather, it imposes it.  To add 
new pgf formats, and to set up users to apply them, you would have to:
* Create the new formats
* Modify the EDD and the XML to include attribu.tes
* Use the attributes to set the current formatting for the given *element*
* Modify the EDD to set up format rules that map your formats to the attribute 
vals
* Store all the above in the template


In theory, you could create an attribute that is a list of values, and each 
value is the name of a pgf format.  Then you set up format rules for every 
pgf-level element to apply the format that matches the attribute value.  Then 
do the same for char, table, and other formats???  But this kind of defeats the 
purpose of structure.  The idea with structure is (as has already been said) to 
separate structure from display.  You want a machine to make the display 
decisions at the last minute.  And FrameMaker is just one such machine.  By 
using that principle, then you can automate great things, like if you move a 
section to become a sub-section, all the formatting adjusts automatically.  


I'm sure you know all this, but maybe you need to remind the customer.  Or 
maybe you need to interpret the customer request as a symptom that the EDD/DTD 
is not sufficiently specified for their project.  Maybe it's time to address 
more fundamental issues?
___


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Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Chris Despopoulos]

I thought the idea was to format via the EDD, only.? Users should never just 
apply pgf formatting, because it will get lost (as you describe).? Structure 
demands template dictatorship on steroids...? Or rather, it imposes it.? To add 
new pgf formats, and to set up users to apply them, you would have to:
* Create the new formats
* Modify the EDD and the XML to include attribu.tes
* Use the attributes to set the current formatting for the given *element*
* Modify the EDD to set up format rules that map your formats to the attribute 
vals
* Store all the above in the template


In theory, you could create an attribute that is a list of values, and each 
value is the name of a pgf format.? Then you set up format rules for every 
pgf-level element to apply the format that matches the attribute value.? Then 
do the same for char, table, and other formats But this kind of defeats the 
purpose of structure.? The idea with structure is (as has already been said) to 
separate structure from display.? You want a machine to make the display 
decisions at the last minute.? And FrameMaker is just one such machine.? By 
using that principle, then you can automate great things, like if you move a 
section to become a sub-section, all the formatting adjusts automatically.? 


I'm sure you know all this, but maybe you need to remind the customer.? Or 
maybe you need to interpret the customer request as a symptom that the EDD/DTD 
is not sufficiently specified for their project.? Maybe it's time to address 
more fundamental issues?
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Gillian Flato]

Lisa,
With structured Frame, content and formatting are separate. After you create 
the content, you run the style sheet script (XSLT or XSL-Fo) and it formats it. 
When you send someone the raw XML file, there won't be formatting. They need to 
apply the style sheet script as well. Unless of course, you create a finished 
product like a PDF, then they'll see the formatting you designed.

-Gillian

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:45 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats - Re-opened

Hello Again All,

The project that I was working on below (created structured templates and EDD 
for use to convert unstructured to structured Frame) is now in the hands of the 
end users. They are having an issue with the paragraph formatting not 
"sticking" when they apply it in their new document (the structured template). 
This appears to be a sporadic issue within the same document.

(FrameMaker 10)

For instance,

Header style (contains numbering reset)

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style (the auto-numbering disappears from the style here)

4.   Step

5.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

Has anyone seen behavior before?
If the user changes the affected para to Body and then re-applies the format, 
"most" of the time it's right.
Any ideas on where we can start to look?

Thanks in advance!
Lisa

From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com>
 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]<mailto:[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]>
 On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 04, 2012 10:59 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats SOLVED

Hello All,

Rick was kind enough to work with me on this issue and I am back on track (for 
the time being anyway). He suggested adding the formatting into my EDD using 
the textformat structures.

I greatly appreciate everyone's input. This list rocks!

Lisa


From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com>
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:24 AM
To: Rick Quatro; 
framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Rick,

I unwrapped a few para elements and then imported the EDD as you suggested. It 
ended up wiping out every paragraph format in the test document. They're now 
all  again.

It was a good idea though!
Thank you,
Lisa

From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com]
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:12 AM
To: Lisa Freeman; 
framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Lisa,

Try this: after you wrap a few elements, choose File > Import > Element 
Definitions. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Does 
that give you the correct formatting for each element? Thanks.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
r...@frameexpert.com<mailto:r...@frameexpert.com>



From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com>
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:24 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats

Hello All,

FM10 - We are converting an unstructured Frame file to Structured. Due to 
unfortunate circumstances, we are not able to use a conversion table (sigh).

The issue is that during the hand tagging of this file, we have to wrap the 
text in the element tags in para tags to match the schema.  When we wrap the 
text, we lose the paragraph's formatting properties. Everything turns to "body" 
and we have to reapply the format.

We are able to manipulate the EDD somewhat but can't stray from the structure. 
We've looked at Read\Write rules but they don't appear to help in this case. 
We've also looked at using the "TextFormatRules, ElementPgfFormatTag" options 
but we have more than one paragraph style that goes to an individual element.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

BTW, everything works great when a new document is created using the template, 
EDD, etc.

Thank you in advance!

Sincerely,
Lisa Freeman
Publication Support Analyst

E-mail: lfree...@oneil.com<mailto:lfree...@oneil.com>


*

Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Gillian Flato]

Lisa,
With structured Frame, content and formatting are separate. After you create 
the content, you run the style sheet script (XSLT or XSL-Fo) and it formats it. 
When you send someone the raw XML file, there won't be formatting. They need to 
apply the style sheet script as well. Unless of course, you create a finished 
product like a PDF, then they'll see the formatting you designed.

-Gillian

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:45 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats - Re-opened

Hello Again All,

The project that I was working on below (created structured templates and EDD 
for use to convert unstructured to structured Frame) is now in the hands of the 
end users. They are having an issue with the paragraph formatting not 
"sticking" when they apply it in their new document (the structured template). 
This appears to be a sporadic issue within the same document.

(FrameMaker 10)

For instance,

Header style (contains numbering reset)

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style (the auto-numbering disappears from the style here)

4.   Step

5.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

Has anyone seen behavior before?
If the user changes the affected para to Body and then re-applies the format, 
"most" of the time it's right.
Any ideas on where we can start to look?

Thanks in advance!
Lisa

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com> [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com]<mailto:[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]> On 
Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 04, 2012 10:59 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats SOLVED

Hello All,

Rick was kind enough to work with me on this issue and I am back on track (for 
the time being anyway). He suggested adding the formatting into my EDD using 
the textformat structures.

I greatly appreciate everyone's input. This list rocks!

Lisa


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:24 AM
To: Rick Quatro; framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at 
lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Rick,

I unwrapped a few para elements and then imported the EDD as you suggested. It 
ended up wiping out every paragraph format in the test document. They're now 
all  again.

It was a good idea though!
Thank you,
Lisa

From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com]
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:12 AM
To: Lisa Freeman; framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at 
lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Lisa,

Try this: after you wrap a few elements, choose File > Import > Element 
Definitions. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Does 
that give you the correct formatting for each element? Thanks.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
rick at frameexpert.com<mailto:rick at frameexpert.com>



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:24 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats

Hello All,

FM10 - We are converting an unstructured Frame file to Structured. Due to 
unfortunate circumstances, we are not able to use a conversion table (sigh).

The issue is that during the hand tagging of this file, we have to wrap the 
text in the element tags in para tags to match the schema.  When we wrap the 
text, we lose the paragraph's formatting properties. Everything turns to "body" 
and we have to reapply the format.

We are able to manipulate the EDD somewhat but can't stray from the structure. 
We've looked at Read\Write rules but they don't appear to help in this case. 
We've also looked at using the "TextFormatRules, ElementPgfFormatTag" options 
but we have more than one paragraph style that goes to an individual element.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

BTW, everything works great when a new document is created using the template, 
EDD, etc.

Thank you in advance!

Sincerely,
Lisa Freeman
Publication Support Analyst

E-mail: lfreeman at oneil.com<mailto:lfreeman 

RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Lisa Freeman]

Hello Again All,

The project that I was working on below (created structured templates and EDD 
for use to convert unstructured to structured Frame) is now in the hands of the 
end users. They are having an issue with the paragraph formatting not 
"sticking" when they apply it in their new document (the structured template). 
This appears to be a sporadic issue within the same document.

(FrameMaker 10)

For instance,

Header style (contains numbering reset)

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style (the auto-numbering disappears from the style here)

4.   Step

5.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

Has anyone seen behavior before?
If the user changes the affected para to Body and then re-applies the format, 
"most" of the time it's right.
Any ideas on where we can start to look?

Thanks in advance!
Lisa

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 04, 2012 10:59 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats SOLVED

Hello All,

Rick was kind enough to work with me on this issue and I am back on track (for 
the time being anyway). He suggested adding the formatting into my EDD using 
the textformat structures.

I greatly appreciate everyone's input. This list rocks!

Lisa


From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:24 AM
To: Rick Quatro; 
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Rick,

I unwrapped a few para elements and then imported the EDD as you suggested. It 
ended up wiping out every paragraph format in the test document. They're now 
all  again.

It was a good idea though!
Thank you,
Lisa

From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com]
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:12 AM
To: Lisa Freeman; 
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Lisa,

Try this: after you wrap a few elements, choose File > Import > Element 
Definitions. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Does 
that give you the correct formatting for each element? Thanks.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
r...@frameexpert.com



From: 
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:24 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats

Hello All,

FM10 - We are converting an unstructured Frame file to Structured. Due to 
unfortunate circumstances, we are not able to use a conversion table (sigh).

The issue is that during the hand tagging of this file, we have to wrap the 
text in the element tags in para tags to match the schema.  When we wrap the 
text, we lose the paragraph's formatting properties. Everything turns to "body" 
and we have to reapply the format.

We are able to manipulate the EDD somewhat but can't stray from the structure. 
We've looked at Read\Write rules but they don't appear to help in this case. 
We've also looked at using the "TextFormatRules, ElementPgfFormatTag" options 
but we have more than one paragraph style that goes to an individual element.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

BTW, everything works great when a new document is created using the template, 
EDD, etc.

Thank you in advance!

Sincerely,
Lisa Freeman
Publication Support Analyst

E-mail: lfree...@oneil.com


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Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats - Re-opened

[Lisa Freeman]

Hello Again All,

The project that I was working on below (created structured templates and EDD 
for use to convert unstructured to structured Frame) is now in the hands of the 
end users. They are having an issue with the paragraph formatting not 
"sticking" when they apply it in their new document (the structured template). 
This appears to be a sporadic issue within the same document.

(FrameMaker 10)

For instance,

Header style (contains numbering reset)

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

3.   Step
Header style (the auto-numbering disappears from the style here)

4.   Step

5.   Step
Header style

1.   Step

2.   Step

Has anyone seen behavior before?
If the user changes the affected para to Body and then re-applies the format, 
"most" of the time it's right.
Any ideas on where we can start to look?

Thanks in advance!
Lisa

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 04, 2012 10:59 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats SOLVED

Hello All,

Rick was kind enough to work with me on this issue and I am back on track (for 
the time being anyway). He suggested adding the formatting into my EDD using 
the textformat structures.

I greatly appreciate everyone's input. This list rocks!

Lisa


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:24 AM
To: Rick Quatro; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Rick,

I unwrapped a few para elements and then imported the EDD as you suggested. It 
ended up wiping out every paragraph format in the test document. They're now 
all  again.

It was a good idea though!
Thank you,
Lisa

From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com]
Sent: 07 03, 2012 8:12 AM
To: Lisa Freeman; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph 
formats

Hi Lisa,

Try this: after you wrap a few elements, choose File > Import > Element 
Definitions. Check the Format Rule Overrides checkbox and click Import. Does 
that give you the correct formatting for each element? Thanks.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
rick at frameexpert.com



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Lisa Freeman
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 1:24 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Unstructured to Structured: Question about retaining paragraph formats

Hello All,

FM10 - We are converting an unstructured Frame file to Structured. Due to 
unfortunate circumstances, we are not able to use a conversion table (sigh).

The issue is that during the hand tagging of this file, we have to wrap the 
text in the element tags in para tags to match the schema.  When we wrap the 
text, we lose the paragraph's formatting properties. Everything turns to "body" 
and we have to reapply the format.

We are able to manipulate the EDD somewhat but can't stray from the structure. 
We've looked at Read\Write rules but they don't appear to help in this case. 
We've also looked at using the "TextFormatRules, ElementPgfFormatTag" options 
but we have more than one paragraph style that goes to an individual element.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

BTW, everything works great when a new document is created using the template, 
EDD, etc.

Thank you in advance!

Sincerely,
Lisa Freeman
Publication Support Analyst

E-mail: lfreeman at oneil.com


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