Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
U,
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
`1234567890-=
~!@#$%^&*()_+
[]\
{}|
;'
:"
,./
<>?
I think that's all the characters I can type. Now that I've typed them, put it
into an email and sent it to the list, please do not ever use these characters
or I will come after you in court, at your office and maybe even on the way to
your appointment at 3:45 with the guy trying to help you with that issue
related to your golf game.
:)
Google for this:
"John Posada" frameusers
675 hits
Yahoo:
147 hits
Ask Jeeves
67
Alltheweb
103
search.aol.com
3 pages worth
Teoma
67
Hopefully they all have permission :)
I seriously think that this topic has gotten way goofy, even by my standards.
If you don't want people to use what you write on the list either just send
questions or send your answers directly to a person with the legal blather that
says it's confidential. However, don't post to the group if you don't want them
to use it. The whole purpose of this list is to make the life of Frame users
better and this discussion doesn't do so.
If it's in the public domain (which this list really is and so is the web at
large) then it's likely tough to claim ownership. There are exceptions to the
rule, but if someone links to a URL that is available to the public and wants
to make it a reference point to go to for help, so be it.
I think that most, if not all documentation carries the standard "if it works
right, great, and if not then don't blame us" that legal wants. Relax people.
It's just a link. It's just content that helps out people. If someone wants to
connect to the list via a tool that is used internally or externally let them.
I suggest that anyone who does not want to have content used by others stop
sending suggestions to the list. Nice and easy.
There's no point in posting the forum elsewhere as I get the results in a
google search. (h, they have money, can we sue?) If people need to link to
a valuable resource (read into that "postings on the list") then let them do
so. That's what it is here for.
Now, can we get back to doing real work?
Bernard
Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
I do. I'm sure I can find issues that you feel are important, to be trivial. However, I'll be refraining from from saying so because I also believe that people are allowed to express their concerns even if I'm not concerned about it. John Posada Senior Technical Writer "So long and thanks for all the fish."
Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information
on the forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers
who get paid for words; if we choose to give some away in this or
other forumns, that's up to us. But they're still our words and we
want them to be under our control as much as possible.
I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and
presents the freely-given information to make a profit. Especially
without letting me/us know.
I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others
make a profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us
are that care free.
Cheers,
Art
On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> ~!@#$%^&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?
--
Art Campbell art.campbell at
gmail.com
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
I'm totally self employed and count on the list, the users and Framers across
the planet to pay me for what I do. If they don't I can't pay the bills. This
list is one way to promote myself. Again, if you don't want your words used by
others, then don't post to the list. It's really not that tough. Instead of
sending to, cc'ing to or bcc'ing to the list, just send to, cc or bcc the
people with the question. Or don't offer your input.
Thanks by the way to the wide range of people who already pitched in to let me
know "thanks for saying what we are thinking".
For the record, I post a lot to this group. So do a lot of people who make
their living selling the same support and services we offer here for free. To
say that we don't get paid for it isn't totally true. It's good press.
If you don't think that others should quote you it's really simple. Don't send
to the list. Send to the individual. If your thoughts are worth that much, then
hoard them and bottle it. Me, I post where and when I can and hope that the
goodwill results in business. Generally it has.
I guess that mean that I don't have a problem accepting that others make a
profit (and I lose money) by posting here. If you aren't that care free then
stop sending answers and just post your questions.
Bernard
-Original Message-
From: Art Campbell [mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:51 PM
To: bernard at publishingsmarter.com
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information on the
forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers who get paid
for words; if we choose to give some away in this or other forumns, that's up
to us. But they're still our words and we want them to be under our control as
much as possible.
I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and presents the
freely-given information to make a profit. Especially without letting me/us
know.
I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others make a
profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us are that care free.
Cheers,
Art
On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> ~!@#$%^&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?
--
Art Campbell art.campbell at
gmail.com
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Agreed. Freely given. Hence, if you get a penny it's a huge return on the
investment.
Besides, if people stay from others on a list like this it's pretty quickly
known. There are several people on the list that I don't bother to reply to
because off list others have mentioned issue that develop. By and large I trust
to the 'good' in people and let it be at that.
B
-Original Message-
From: Art Campbell [mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:51 PM
To: bernard at publishingsmarter.com
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information on the
forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers who get paid
for words; if we choose to give some away in this or other forumns, that's up
to us. But they're still our words and we want them to be under our control as
much as possible.
I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and presents the
freely-given information to make a profit. Especially without letting me/us
know.
I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others make a
profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us are that care free.
Cheers,
Art
On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> ~!@#$%^&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?
--
Art Campbell art.campbell at
gmail.com
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
>if you don't want your words used by others, then don't post >to the list. It's really not that tough. Instead of sending to, cc'ing >to or bcc'ing to the list, just send to, cc or bcc the people with the >question. Or don't offer your input. You make it sound like the purpose of the list is to create content that can be repurposed for any reason anyone may want. Where does it stop. I thought the purpose of the list was for the benefit of the people subscribing to the list. >Thanks by the way to the wide range of people who already pitched >in to let me know "thanks for saying what we are thinking". Yeah, yeah, I know...we both got them (BTW...what would a narrow range of people be in this context?) >For the record, I post a lot to this group. So do a lot of people who >make their living selling the same support and services we offer here >for free. To say that we don't get paid for it isn't totally true. It's >good press. Actually, while agree with Art, that wasn't my primary initial concern. My concern was having my name attributed to a solution when it might not have been the correct or best solution to the problem, which I've said several time during this discussion since yesterday. I'd find it unusual if a list member's problem to which you post a solution is the exact problem that his corporate user is experiencing and documenting. To be honest, I'd mind less if the original poster snipped my response, pasted it in his documentation, and reworked the content to better apply the solution to the specific problem. In a case of applying a solution to a problem I know nothing about, I'd rather NOT be attributed to the solution. OTOH, if credit is to be applied, it can be selectively. What I'd like is Jakob contacting you or me or anyone on the list, saying he's like to use one of our solutions in internal documentation. 1) Is it OK? and 2) do you want credit? At that point, it is up to any of us to set the condition. You may very well want the credit and with what you do, I understand you would. That's fine...I'd never miss an opportunity to market myself. However, I don't and I'd say use the solution but don't use my name. That should be fine too. A direct link removes that option as well as being the lazy way out. However, for a reader of his documentation to see my post verbatim along with whatever email address and user I was responding too, along with misspellings and grammar errors, as a solution in a corporate document that might only partially state the solution is not something with which I'm comfortable. It kinda reminds me a situation when I was growing up. Our backyard property line ended at a certain point. It faced a dirt road and about 2/3 of the width of the dirt road was on our property, At a certain point, my parents wanted to add a built-in pool and wanted to reclaim the property that had for several years been public access. Know what? We couldn't because by not restricting access on it ever, it had pretty much reverted to the public domain. If OTOH, once a year we had closed it off, even for a day, we could have closed it off permanently. Now, this was when I was 10 years old, so there may have been more to this or I'm getting it wrong, or somneone was paying off the town to enforce a rule that didn't exist. However, it did teach me that if you don't practice some type of ownership as a normal course of business, at a certain point, you loose all claim. I think this also affects trademark law, In this case, you don't object to how any of our content is repurposed in Jakob's internal documentation. The next time may come a situation to which you do object. Maybe someone will come along who is writing a book that will be commercially published and he wants to include a link to your post that will end up appearing on a Borders or B&N bookshelf. However, you won't know it until one of your clients brings your attention to it. Wouldn't it just be better to retain just a little control over who sees what you are saying in your posts?
Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Folks, anything posted to a public e-mail list is public domain. If you don't like it, then be careful about what you post. It's that simple. I'm on a ton of lists. I post a lot of information. If you notice, none of what I post is either a trade secret or anything particularly valuable. I sometimes follow up off-list with folks to answer questions that go a bit more in-depth. Still, the info I share isn't particularly sensitive, as I'm not making money off the conversation. Anything of value is presented in the context of a private contract (if/when I have time... which I haven't had in a few years). All it takes is a bit of common sense. If you're concerned about the info you're sharing, don't share it publicly. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner 42.8162,-73.7736 http://techcommdood.blogspot.com I support Char James-Tanny for STC Secretary.
Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
U,
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
`1234567890-=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]&*()_+
[]\
{}|
;'
:"
,./
<>?
I think that's all the characters I can type. Now that I've typed them, put it
into an email and sent it to the list, please do not ever use these characters
or I will come after you in court, at your office and maybe even on the way to
your appointment at 3:45 with the guy trying to help you with that issue
related to your golf game.
:)
Google for this:
"John Posada" frameusers
675 hits
Yahoo:
147 hits
Ask Jeeves
67
Alltheweb
103
search.aol.com
3 pages worth
Teoma
67
Hopefully they all have permission :)
I seriously think that this topic has gotten way goofy, even by my standards.
If you don't want people to use what you write on the list either just send
questions or send your answers directly to a person with the legal blather that
says it's confidential. However, don't post to the group if you don't want them
to use it. The whole purpose of this list is to make the life of Frame users
better and this discussion doesn't do so.
If it's in the public domain (which this list really is and so is the web at
large) then it's likely tough to claim ownership. There are exceptions to the
rule, but if someone links to a URL that is available to the public and wants
to make it a reference point to go to for help, so be it.
I think that most, if not all documentation carries the standard "if it works
right, great, and if not then don't blame us" that legal wants. Relax people.
It's just a link. It's just content that helps out people. If someone wants to
connect to the list via a tool that is used internally or externally let them.
I suggest that anyone who does not want to have content used by others stop
sending suggestions to the list. Nice and easy.
There's no point in posting the forum elsewhere as I get the results in a
google search. (h, they have money, can we sue?) If people need to link to
a valuable resource (read into that "postings on the list") then let them do
so. That's what it is here for.
Now, can we get back to doing real work?
Bernard
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
I do. I'm sure I can find issues that you feel are important, to be trivial. However, I'll be refraining from from saying so because I also believe that people are allowed to express their concerns even if I'm not concerned about it. John Posada Senior Technical Writer "So long and thanks for all the fish." ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information
on the forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers
who get paid for words; if we choose to give some away in this or
other forumns, that's up to us. But they're still our words and we
want them to be under our control as much as possible.
I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and
presents the freely-given information to make a profit. Especially
without letting me/us know.
I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others
make a profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us
are that care free.
Cheers,
Art
On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?
--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
I'm totally self employed and count on the list, the users and Framers across
the planet to pay me for what I do. If they don't I can't pay the bills. This
list is one way to promote myself. Again, if you don't want your words used by
others, then don't post to the list. It's really not that tough. Instead of
sending to, cc'ing to or bcc'ing to the list, just send to, cc or bcc the
people with the question. Or don't offer your input.
Thanks by the way to the wide range of people who already pitched in to let me
know "thanks for saying what we are thinking".
For the record, I post a lot to this group. So do a lot of people who make
their living selling the same support and services we offer here for free. To
say that we don't get paid for it isn't totally true. It's good press.
If you don't think that others should quote you it's really simple. Don't send
to the list. Send to the individual. If your thoughts are worth that much, then
hoard them and bottle it. Me, I post where and when I can and hope that the
goodwill results in business. Generally it has.
I guess that mean that I don't have a problem accepting that others make a
profit (and I lose money) by posting here. If you aren't that care free then
stop sending answers and just post your questions.
Bernard
-Original Message-
From: Art Campbell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information on the
forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers who get paid
for words; if we choose to give some away in this or other forumns, that's up
to us. But they're still our words and we want them to be under our control as
much as possible.
I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and presents the
freely-given information to make a profit. Especially without letting me/us
know.
I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others make a
profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us are that care free.
Cheers,
Art
On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?
--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Agreed. Freely given. Hence, if you get a penny it's a huge return on the
investment.
Besides, if people stay from others on a list like this it's pretty quickly
known. There are several people on the list that I don't bother to reply to
because off list others have mentioned issue that develop. By and large I trust
to the 'good' in people and let it be at that.
B
-Original Message-
From: Art Campbell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Bernard, I think John's point (and mine, anyway) is that information on the
forum is freely given. Some/most of us are professional writers who get paid
for words; if we choose to give some away in this or other forumns, that's up
to us. But they're still our words and we want them to be under our control as
much as possible.
I/we get upset when a site or individual steals, masssages, and presents the
freely-given information to make a profit. Especially without letting me/us
know.
I don't have a problem accepting that you are willing to have others make a
profit off your knowledge without $haring. But not all of us are that care free.
Cheers,
Art
On 1/26/06, Bernard Aschwanden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> U,
>
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> `1234567890-=
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]&*()_+
> []\
> {}|
> ;'
> :"
> ,./
> <>?
--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
if you don't want your words used by others, then don't post to the list. It's really not that tough. Instead of sending to, cc'ing to or bcc'ing to the list, just send to, cc or bcc the people with the question. Or don't offer your input. You make it sound like the purpose of the list is to create content that can be repurposed for any reason anyone may want. Where does it stop. I thought the purpose of the list was for the benefit of the people subscribing to the list. Thanks by the way to the wide range of people who already pitched in to let me know "thanks for saying what we are thinking". Yeah, yeah, I know...we both got them (BTW...what would a narrow range of people be in this context?) For the record, I post a lot to this group. So do a lot of people who make their living selling the same support and services we offer here for free. To say that we don't get paid for it isn't totally true. It's good press. Actually, while agree with Art, that wasn't my primary initial concern. My concern was having my name attributed to a solution when it might not have been the correct or best solution to the problem, which I've said several time during this discussion since yesterday. I'd find it unusual if a list member's problem to which you post a solution is the exact problem that his corporate user is experiencing and documenting. To be honest, I'd mind less if the original poster snipped my response, pasted it in his documentation, and reworked the content to better apply the solution to the specific problem. In a case of applying a solution to a problem I know nothing about, I'd rather NOT be attributed to the solution. OTOH, if credit is to be applied, it can be selectively. What I'd like is Jakob contacting you or me or anyone on the list, saying he's like to use one of our solutions in internal documentation. 1) Is it OK? and 2) do you want credit? At that point, it is up to any of us to set the condition. You may very well want the credit and with what you do, I understand you would. That's fine...I'd never miss an opportunity to market myself. However, I don't and I'd say use the solution but don't use my name. That should be fine too. A direct link removes that option as well as being the lazy way out. However, for a reader of his documentation to see my post verbatim along with whatever email address and user I was responding too, along with misspellings and grammar errors, as a solution in a corporate document that might only partially state the solution is not something with which I'm comfortable. It kinda reminds me a situation when I was growing up. Our backyard property line ended at a certain point. It faced a dirt road and about 2/3 of the width of the dirt road was on our property, At a certain point, my parents wanted to add a built-in pool and wanted to reclaim the property that had for several years been public access. Know what? We couldn't because by not restricting access on it ever, it had pretty much reverted to the public domain. If OTOH, once a year we had closed it off, even for a day, we could have closed it off permanently. Now, this was when I was 10 years old, so there may have been more to this or I'm getting it wrong, or somneone was paying off the town to enforce a rule that didn't exist. However, it did teach me that if you don't practice some type of ownership as a normal course of business, at a certain point, you loose all claim. I think this also affects trademark law, In this case, you don't object to how any of our content is repurposed in Jakob's internal documentation. The next time may come a situation to which you do object. Maybe someone will come along who is writing a book that will be commercially published and he wants to include a link to your post that will end up appearing on a Borders or B&N bookshelf. However, you won't know it until one of your clients brings your attention to it. Wouldn't it just be better to retain just a little control over who sees what you are saying in your posts? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Who cares? [was gmane.org ad naseum]
Folks, anything posted to a public e-mail list is public domain. If you don't like it, then be careful about what you post. It's that simple. I'm on a ton of lists. I post a lot of information. If you notice, none of what I post is either a trade secret or anything particularly valuable. I sometimes follow up off-list with folks to answer questions that go a bit more in-depth. Still, the info I share isn't particularly sensitive, as I'm not making money off the conversation. Anything of value is presented in the context of a private contract (if/when I have time... which I haven't had in a few years). All it takes is a bit of common sense. If you're concerned about the info you're sharing, don't share it publicly. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner 42.8162,-73.7736 http://techcommdood.blogspot.com I support Char James-Tanny for STC Secretary. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
