ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jim Owens]

I appreciate hearing from vendors on this list. When I was looking for a 
replacement for WebWorks Publisher 2003, I would have liked the 
opportunity to discuss my options with a participant from Quadralay.

Welcome to the list. I look forward to your ongoing participation!


Andrew VanConas wrote:
> Greetings Framers,
> 
> We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other 
> list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor 
> interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this 
> is my first posting to Framers.
> 
> In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh 
> in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other 
> products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from 
> a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly 
> comment in reference to ePublisher.
> 
> With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of 
> our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you 
> attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open 
> forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you 
> find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many 
> different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to 
> register for any of them.
> 
> If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to 
> http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .
> 
> Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.
> 
> Thank you for your time,
> Andrew VanConas
> andrew at webworks.com 
> 805-794-6333
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jowens at magma.ca.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 
> 

Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jim Owens]

I appreciate hearing from vendors on this list. When I was looking for a 
replacement for WebWorks Publisher 2003, I would have liked the 
opportunity to discuss my options with a participant from Quadralay.

Welcome to the list. I look forward to your ongoing participation!


Andrew VanConas wrote:
> Greetings Framers,
> 
> We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other 
> list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor 
> interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this 
> is my first posting to Framers.
> 
> In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh 
> in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other 
> products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from 
> a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly 
> comment in reference to ePublisher.
> 
> With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of 
> our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you 
> attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open 
> forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you 
> find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many 
> different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to 
> register for any of them.
> 
> If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to 
> http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .
> 
> Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.
> 
> Thank you for your time,
> Andrew VanConas
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 805-794-6333
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jowens%40magma.ca
> 
> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 
> 

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ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:01:44 -0400, "Rick Quatro"  
wrote:

>I respectfully disagree with the idea of "vendor interference". Since 
>third-party products related to FrameMaker are part of many workflows, I 
>don't think it is inappropriate at all to talk about them on the list. 

Obviously, I agree.  That applies to *any* third-party product.

>To put the shoe on the other foot, if someone posts a difficulty with their 
>MIF2Go process, and you know that ePublisher can solve their problem, I 
>think it is more than appropriate for you to point this out. 

Absolutely!  I'd want to know about that too.  We *do* give referrals
to other vendors when we know of something they do that we don't, or
that they do better.  That has included Quadralay.  For example, ePP
works with Word as source; we don't.  If you have both Frame and Word
docs going into the same Help system, you should certainly consider
using ePP for that.

>Although some may see this as self-serving on your part, it still serves 
>the overall purpose of the list, which is to help people solve FrameMaker-
>related problems. 

Exactly; that's the bottom line.

>We all know that Jeremy is biased towards MIF2Go, 

Yep.  At least, I'm way more *familiar* with it than I am with other
options.  ;-)  I can't browse the C++ source of any other plugin... 

>but I still find it beneficial to read how it may solve a particular 
>problem. This kind of information can be valuable for me down the road. 

Right.  And for the vendors themselves, it may suggest areas where
they can improve.  This helps everyone.

>If he, or any other vendor, overstates their case, there are others on 
>the list that can and should point that out.

Right again.  This list serves as a reality check for vendor claims.

>Overall, I think it is good practice for vendors to monitor the FrameMaker 
>lists and be ready to contribute, especially if the discussion involves 
>their products. It gives them credibility as being in touch with FrameMaker 
>users and ready to help provide solutions.

It gives them even more credibility, as members of the community,
if they *also* post on points unrelated to their products where
they happen to have expertise.  After a while, you get to know who
is on top of various aspects of Frame.  For example, I'm not going
to post about FrameScript because I know Rick will, and he's the
expert on it.  But I will post about FM8 Unicode issues that are
unrelated to conversion because I know those very well.

Thank you, Rick, for a clear and cogent analysis!

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
http://www.omsys.com/

Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:01:44 -0400, "Rick Quatro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

>I respectfully disagree with the idea of "vendor interference". Since 
>third-party products related to FrameMaker are part of many workflows, I 
>don't think it is inappropriate at all to talk about them on the list. 

Obviously, I agree.  That applies to *any* third-party product.

>To put the shoe on the other foot, if someone posts a difficulty with their 
>MIF2Go process, and you know that ePublisher can solve their problem, I 
>think it is more than appropriate for you to point this out. 

Absolutely!  I'd want to know about that too.  We *do* give referrals
to other vendors when we know of something they do that we don't, or
that they do better.  That has included Quadralay.  For example, ePP
works with Word as source; we don't.  If you have both Frame and Word
docs going into the same Help system, you should certainly consider
using ePP for that.

>Although some may see this as self-serving on your part, it still serves 
>the overall purpose of the list, which is to help people solve FrameMaker-
>related problems. 

Exactly; that's the bottom line.

>We all know that Jeremy is biased towards MIF2Go, 

Yep.  At least, I'm way more *familiar* with it than I am with other
options.  ;-)  I can't browse the C++ source of any other plugin... 

>but I still find it beneficial to read how it may solve a particular 
>problem. This kind of information can be valuable for me down the road. 

Right.  And for the vendors themselves, it may suggest areas where
they can improve.  This helps everyone.

>If he, or any other vendor, overstates their case, there are others on 
>the list that can and should point that out.

Right again.  This list serves as a reality check for vendor claims.

>Overall, I think it is good practice for vendors to monitor the FrameMaker 
>lists and be ready to contribute, especially if the discussion involves 
>their products. It gives them credibility as being in touch with FrameMaker 
>users and ready to help provide solutions.

It gives them even more credibility, as members of the community,
if they *also* post on points unrelated to their products where
they happen to have expertise.  After a while, you get to know who
is on top of various aspects of Frame.  For example, I'm not going
to post about FrameScript because I know Rick will, and he's the
expert on it.  But I will post about FM8 Unicode issues that are
unrelated to conversion because I know those very well.

Thank you, Rick, for a clear and cogent analysis!

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://www.omsys.com/
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ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Andrew,

I respectfully disagree with the idea of "vendor interference". Since 
third-party products related to FrameMaker are part of many workflows, I 
don't think it is inappropriate at all to talk about them on the list. To 
put the shoe on the other foot, if someone posts a difficulty with their 
MIF2Go process, and you know that ePublisher can solve their problem, I 
think it is more than appropriate for you to point this out. Although some 
may see this as self-serving on your part, it still serves the overall 
purpose of the list, which is to help people solve FrameMaker-related 
problems. We all know that Jeremy is biased towards MIF2Go, but I still find 
it beneficial to read how it may solve a particular problem. This kind of 
information can be valuable for me down the road. If he, or any other 
vendor, overstates their case, there are others on the list that can and 
should point that out.

Overall, I think it is good practice for vendors to monitor the FrameMaker 
lists and be ready to contribute, especially if the discussion involves 
their products. It gives them credibility as being in touch with FrameMaker 
users and ready to help provide solutions.

BTW, I am not the list moderator, so I only expressing my opinion :-).

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


> Greetings Framers,
>
> We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other
> list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor
> interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this
> is my first posting to Framers.
>
> In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh
> in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other
> products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from
> a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly
> comment in reference to ePublisher.
>
> With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of
> our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you
> attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open
> forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you
> find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many
> different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to
> register for any of them.
>
> If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to
> http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .
>
> Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Andrew VanConas
> andrew at webworks.com 
> 805-794-6333

Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Andrew,

I respectfully disagree with the idea of "vendor interference". Since 
third-party products related to FrameMaker are part of many workflows, I 
don't think it is inappropriate at all to talk about them on the list. To 
put the shoe on the other foot, if someone posts a difficulty with their 
MIF2Go process, and you know that ePublisher can solve their problem, I 
think it is more than appropriate for you to point this out. Although some 
may see this as self-serving on your part, it still serves the overall 
purpose of the list, which is to help people solve FrameMaker-related 
problems. We all know that Jeremy is biased towards MIF2Go, but I still find 
it beneficial to read how it may solve a particular problem. This kind of 
information can be valuable for me down the road. If he, or any other 
vendor, overstates their case, there are others on the list that can and 
should point that out.

Overall, I think it is good practice for vendors to monitor the FrameMaker 
lists and be ready to contribute, especially if the discussion involves 
their products. It gives them credibility as being in touch with FrameMaker 
users and ready to help provide solutions.

BTW, I am not the list moderator, so I only expressing my opinion :-).

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


> Greetings Framers,
>
> We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other
> list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor
> interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this
> is my first posting to Framers.
>
> In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh
> in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other
> products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from
> a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly
> comment in reference to ePublisher.
>
> With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of
> our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you
> attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open
> forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you
> find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many
> different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to
> register for any of them.
>
> If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to
> http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .
>
> Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Andrew VanConas
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 805-794-6333

___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Matt Sullivan]

Hello Andrew,

Thank you stating your case clearly and so free of personal
comment/politics. 
Such clarity furthers my interest in your product. 
For others the opposite is true as well.

-Matt Sullivan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew VanConas
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:18 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

Greetings Framers,

We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other 
list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor 
interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this 
is my first posting to Framers.

In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh 
in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other 
products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from 
a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly 
comment in reference to ePublisher.

With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of 
our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you 
attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open 
forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you 
find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many 
different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to 
register for any of them.

If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to 
http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .

Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.

Thank you for your time,
Andrew VanConas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
805-794-6333

___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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m

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
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ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Matt Sullivan]

Hello Andrew,

Thank you stating your case clearly and so free of personal
comment/politics. 
Such clarity furthers my interest in your product. 
For others the opposite is true as well.

-Matt Sullivan

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Andrew VanConas
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:18 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

Greetings Framers,

We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other 
list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor 
interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this 
is my first posting to Framers.

In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh 
in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other 
products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from 
a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly 
comment in reference to ePublisher.

With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of 
our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you 
attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open 
forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you 
find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many 
different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to 
register for any of them.

If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to 
http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .

Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.

Thank you for your time,
Andrew VanConas
andrew at webworks.com <mailto:andrew at webworks.com>
805-794-6333

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m

Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Andrew VanConas]

Greetings Framers,

We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other 
list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor 
interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this 
is my first posting to Framers.

In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh 
in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other 
products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from 
a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly 
comment in reference to ePublisher.

With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of 
our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you 
attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open 
forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you 
find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many 
different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to 
register for any of them.

If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to 
http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .

Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.

Thank you for your time,
Andrew VanConas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
805-794-6333

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Andrew VanConas]

Greetings Framers,

We/WebWorks (Quadralay) very rarely weigh in on this list or any other 
list. We believe in nice open discussions with as little vendor 
interference as possible. In the 8 years I have worked at WebWorks this 
is my first posting to Framers.

In light of the recent discussion on ePublisher I thought I would weigh 
in, not with an essay of how ePublisher measures up against other 
products. I believe that kind of post would be inappropriate coming from 
a vendor and might create further confusion because I can only expertly 
comment in reference to ePublisher.

With that in mind, I would like to invite each of you to attend any of 
our free public ePublisher webinars (Jeremy, I would love to have you 
attend as well) these webinars are not sales pitches; they are an open 
forum for you to ask questions about ePublisher and for us to help you 
find the most effective solution. As you will see we offer many 
different webinar topics for our customers and all are welcome to 
register for any of them.

If you are interested in attending a webinar please got to 
http://www.webworks.com/Webinars/ .

Feel free to contact me directly either by phone or email.

Thank you for your time,
Andrew VanConas
andrew at webworks.com 
805-794-6333

RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[RJ Jacquez]

Hi Kelly, please see my comments below.

Sincerely,

RJ Jácquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite
Adobe eLearning Solutions
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez


-Original Message-
From: Kelly McDaniel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:20 AM
To: RJ Jacquez
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

RJ,

Thanks for the post.

You mentioned "live link your FrameMaker documents and books." Did you mean 
"import by reference", or is there a different linking method?
[RJ Jacquez] Sorry for the confusing, I used talk a lot about live links from 
my days with RoboHelp for FrameMaker, but what I meant was the import by 
reference, so you are doing this correctly.

I have attempted to IBR my FM files to RoboHTML, about 50MB total. The process 
takes ~30 minutes, and the Robo view of the files is "raw."
[RJ Jacquez] What do you mean by "raw"?  That is, each cross-ref is appended 
with the FM file name as a prefix. This requires major handwork ex post facto.
[RJ Jacquez] This is interesting.  Do you know we have a cross-reference 
mapping feature, similar to mapping Paragraph and Character styles?  If not, I 
created a quick Captivate recording showing where this feature is and here's 
the link for you to watch:
http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/fmxrefs2rh/

If there is a method to "live link", which implies true roundtripping, please 
elucidate...best regards, Kelly / PavTech/Rockwell
[RJ Jacquez] Hopefully this will help you resolve the Xrefs issues and if you 
have some more problems, I'm planning on participating on this forum more 
actively, so please ask away.


___


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ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[RJ Jacquez]

Hi Kelly, please see my comments below.

Sincerely,

RJ J?cquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite
Adobe eLearning Solutions
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez


-Original Message-
From: Kelly McDaniel [mailto:kmcdan...@pavtech.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:20 AM
To: RJ Jacquez
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

RJ,

Thanks for the post.

You mentioned "live link your FrameMaker documents and books." Did you mean 
"import by reference", or is there a different linking method?
[RJ Jacquez] Sorry for the confusing, I used talk a lot about live links from 
my days with RoboHelp for FrameMaker, but what I meant was the import by 
reference, so you are doing this correctly.

I have attempted to IBR my FM files to RoboHTML, about 50MB total. The process 
takes ~30 minutes, and the Robo view of the files is "raw."
[RJ Jacquez] What do you mean by "raw"?  That is, each cross-ref is appended 
with the FM file name as a prefix. This requires major handwork ex post facto.
[RJ Jacquez] This is interesting.  Do you know we have a cross-reference 
mapping feature, similar to mapping Paragraph and Character styles?  If not, I 
created a quick Captivate recording showing where this feature is and here's 
the link for you to watch:
http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/fmxrefs2rh/

If there is a method to "live link", which implies true roundtripping, please 
elucidate...best regards, Kelly / PavTech/Rockwell
[RJ Jacquez] Hopefully this will help you resolve the Xrefs issues and if you 
have some more problems, I'm planning on participating on this forum more 
actively, so please ask away.

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Kelly McDaniel]

RJ,

Thanks for the post.

You mentioned "live link your FrameMaker documents and books." Did you mean 
"import by reference", or is there a different linking method?

I have attempted to IBR my FM files to RoboHTML, about 50MB total. The process 
takes ~30 minutes, and the Robo view of the files is "raw." That is, each 
cross-ref is appended with the FM file name as a prefix. This requires major 
handwork ex post facto.

If there is a method to "live link", which implies true roundtripping, please 
elucidate...best regards, Kelly / PavTech/Rockwell

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of RJ Jacquez
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:44 AM
To: Patrick Fortino; Jeremy H. Griffith
Cc: Callie at lists.frameusers.com; framers at lists.frameusers.com; Bertsche
Subject: RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

Hi Patrick, I just wanted to point out that the enhanced version of RoboHelp 7 
in the Technical Communication Suite enables you to live link your FrameMaker 
documents and books in the same way WebWorks allows you to, so you may want to 
look into that if you have some time.

There's a link in my last blog post where I talk about what's new in our latest 
Suite and on slide 3 of the recording, there's a link to another recording 
where I go over exactly how you can natively reuse FrameMaker documents in 
RoboHelp.  The link to my blog is listed below my email signature.

For what's worth, I worked for WebWorks for about three years and they are 
great people and I have also had a lot of great conversations with Jeremy from 
Mif2Go, so either way you go, you'll be working with great folks.

Sincerely,

RJ J?cquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite
Adobe eLearning Solutions
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Fortino
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:50 AM
To: Jeremy H. Griffith
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com; Callie Bertsche
Subject: Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

First let me say that I think that ePublisher licenses are
highway robbery. For example, they do not allow you to upgrade from an
older version; instead, you pay the full price.  I had webworks
publisher pro, or whatever the version was before epublisher. No
upgrade path for that because I did not upgrade when epublisher came
out. I'd like to know what software planet webworks operates on,
because I have NEVER bought ANY software that did not have an upgrade
path.

Also, webworks support will cost you plenty. NOTHING is free. Example,
even though we bought two new licences and had difficulties installing
it on one of our machines, Webwork offers NO support for this. This
really pissed me off, especially since it turns out that my install
problems were due to their poor documentation (there was no mention
that you could only have one version of frame installed. I wasted a
complete day getting the install to work).

Their documentation is almost worthless. It's essentially a functional
spec; eg, this function does this, this function does that, etc. There
is very little "How To" help in the so-called "help" file. And to make
it even worse, they don't even have a forum where you can post
questions; you have to go to the yahoo webworks group which is
supported by some very kindly webworks users.

However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will
admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time
getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm
books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do
extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the
way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect
without any mods. And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help
project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set
up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease
of use was VERY important.

epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real
plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output
many times a day.

One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it
uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still
only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you
have two content sources: robo help and frame.

I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, but requires a LOT
more mucking around in the code. If price is your bottom line, it
might be worth looking at. But I'd be willing to bet that if you keep
track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the

RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Kelly McDaniel]

RJ,

Thanks for the post.

You mentioned "live link your FrameMaker documents and books." Did you mean 
"import by reference", or is there a different linking method?

I have attempted to IBR my FM files to RoboHTML, about 50MB total. The process 
takes ~30 minutes, and the Robo view of the files is "raw." That is, each 
cross-ref is appended with the FM file name as a prefix. This requires major 
handwork ex post facto.

If there is a method to "live link", which implies true roundtripping, please 
elucidate...best regards, Kelly / PavTech/Rockwell

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RJ Jacquez
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:44 AM
To: Patrick Fortino; Jeremy H. Griffith
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com; Bertsche
Subject: RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

Hi Patrick, I just wanted to point out that the enhanced version of RoboHelp 7 
in the Technical Communication Suite enables you to live link your FrameMaker 
documents and books in the same way WebWorks allows you to, so you may want to 
look into that if you have some time.

There's a link in my last blog post where I talk about what's new in our latest 
Suite and on slide 3 of the recording, there's a link to another recording 
where I go over exactly how you can natively reuse FrameMaker documents in 
RoboHelp.  The link to my blog is listed below my email signature.

For what's worth, I worked for WebWorks for about three years and they are 
great people and I have also had a lot of great conversations with Jeremy from 
Mif2Go, so either way you go, you'll be working with great folks.

Sincerely,

RJ Jácquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite
Adobe eLearning Solutions
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Fortino
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:50 AM
To: Jeremy H. Griffith
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Callie Bertsche
Subject: Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

First let me say that I think that ePublisher licenses are
highway robbery. For example, they do not allow you to upgrade from an
older version; instead, you pay the full price.  I had webworks
publisher pro, or whatever the version was before epublisher. No
upgrade path for that because I did not upgrade when epublisher came
out. I'd like to know what software planet webworks operates on,
because I have NEVER bought ANY software that did not have an upgrade
path.

Also, webworks support will cost you plenty. NOTHING is free. Example,
even though we bought two new licences and had difficulties installing
it on one of our machines, Webwork offers NO support for this. This
really pissed me off, especially since it turns out that my install
problems were due to their poor documentation (there was no mention
that you could only have one version of frame installed. I wasted a
complete day getting the install to work).

Their documentation is almost worthless. It's essentially a functional
spec; eg, this function does this, this function does that, etc. There
is very little "How To" help in the so-called "help" file. And to make
it even worse, they don't even have a forum where you can post
questions; you have to go to the yahoo webworks group which is
supported by some very kindly webworks users.

However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will
admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time
getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm
books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do
extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the
way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect
without any mods. And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help
project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set
up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease
of use was VERY important.

epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real
plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output
many times a day.

One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it
uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still
only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you
have two content sources: robo help and frame.

I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, but requires a LOT
more mucking around in the code. If price is your bottom line, it
might be worth looking at. But I'd be willing to bet that if you keep
track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the cost difference
would be negligible.

So that's the sad story. Because webworks is t

RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[RJ Jacquez]

Hi Patrick, I just wanted to point out that the enhanced version of RoboHelp 7 
in the Technical Communication Suite enables you to live link your FrameMaker 
documents and books in the same way WebWorks allows you to, so you may want to 
look into that if you have some time.

There's a link in my last blog post where I talk about what's new in our latest 
Suite and on slide 3 of the recording, there's a link to another recording 
where I go over exactly how you can natively reuse FrameMaker documents in 
RoboHelp.  The link to my blog is listed below my email signature.

For what's worth, I worked for WebWorks for about three years and they are 
great people and I have also had a lot of great conversations with Jeremy from 
Mif2Go, so either way you go, you'll be working with great folks.

Sincerely,

RJ Jácquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite
Adobe eLearning Solutions
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Fortino
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:50 AM
To: Jeremy H. Griffith
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Callie Bertsche
Subject: Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

First let me say that I think that ePublisher licenses are
highway robbery. For example, they do not allow you to upgrade from an
older version; instead, you pay the full price.  I had webworks
publisher pro, or whatever the version was before epublisher. No
upgrade path for that because I did not upgrade when epublisher came
out. I'd like to know what software planet webworks operates on,
because I have NEVER bought ANY software that did not have an upgrade
path.

Also, webworks support will cost you plenty. NOTHING is free. Example,
even though we bought two new licences and had difficulties installing
it on one of our machines, Webwork offers NO support for this. This
really pissed me off, especially since it turns out that my install
problems were due to their poor documentation (there was no mention
that you could only have one version of frame installed. I wasted a
complete day getting the install to work).

Their documentation is almost worthless. It's essentially a functional
spec; eg, this function does this, this function does that, etc. There
is very little "How To" help in the so-called "help" file. And to make
it even worse, they don't even have a forum where you can post
questions; you have to go to the yahoo webworks group which is
supported by some very kindly webworks users.

However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will
admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time
getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm
books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do
extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the
way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect
without any mods. And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help
project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set
up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease
of use was VERY important.

epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real
plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output
many times a day.

One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it
uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still
only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you
have two content sources: robo help and frame.

I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, but requires a LOT
more mucking around in the code. If price is your bottom line, it
might be worth looking at. But I'd be willing to bet that if you keep
track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the cost difference
would be negligible.

So that's the sad story. Because webworks is the only game in town,
they can get away with their Draconian licensing practices.

--
Pat Fortino
writenowdesign.com

 >>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<
- Web Sites
- Technical Writing
- Editing
- Desktop Publishing

Get Firefox, a Safer, Faster, and Better Browser

On Sep 12, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:58:51 -0700, "Callie Bertsche"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> - Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
>> tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with
>> MadCap
>> or Flare?
>>
>> In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the
>> following:
>>
>> - Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/
>> update
>> files in help project file)
&

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[RJ Jacquez]

Hi Patrick, I just wanted to point out that the enhanced version of RoboHelp 7 
in the Technical Communication Suite enables you to live link your FrameMaker 
documents and books in the same way WebWorks allows you to, so you may want to 
look into that if you have some time.

There's a link in my last blog post where I talk about what's new in our latest 
Suite and on slide 3 of the recording, there's a link to another recording 
where I go over exactly how you can natively reuse FrameMaker documents in 
RoboHelp.  The link to my blog is listed below my email signature.

For what's worth, I worked for WebWorks for about three years and they are 
great people and I have also had a lot of great conversations with Jeremy from 
Mif2Go, so either way you go, you'll be working with great folks.

Sincerely,

RJ J?cquez
Senior Product Evangelist
Adobe Technical Communication Suite
Adobe eLearning Solutions
http://blogs.adobe.com/rjacquez

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Fortino
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:50 AM
To: Jeremy H. Griffith
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com; Callie Bertsche
Subject: Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

First let me say that I think that ePublisher licenses are
highway robbery. For example, they do not allow you to upgrade from an
older version; instead, you pay the full price.  I had webworks
publisher pro, or whatever the version was before epublisher. No
upgrade path for that because I did not upgrade when epublisher came
out. I'd like to know what software planet webworks operates on,
because I have NEVER bought ANY software that did not have an upgrade
path.

Also, webworks support will cost you plenty. NOTHING is free. Example,
even though we bought two new licences and had difficulties installing
it on one of our machines, Webwork offers NO support for this. This
really pissed me off, especially since it turns out that my install
problems were due to their poor documentation (there was no mention
that you could only have one version of frame installed. I wasted a
complete day getting the install to work).

Their documentation is almost worthless. It's essentially a functional
spec; eg, this function does this, this function does that, etc. There
is very little "How To" help in the so-called "help" file. And to make
it even worse, they don't even have a forum where you can post
questions; you have to go to the yahoo webworks group which is
supported by some very kindly webworks users.

However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will
admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time
getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm
books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do
extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the
way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect
without any mods. And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help
project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set
up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease
of use was VERY important.

epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real
plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output
many times a day.

One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it
uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still
only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you
have two content sources: robo help and frame.

I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, but requires a LOT
more mucking around in the code. If price is your bottom line, it
might be worth looking at. But I'd be willing to bet that if you keep
track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the cost difference
would be negligible.

So that's the sad story. Because webworks is the only game in town,
they can get away with their Draconian licensing practices.

--
Pat Fortino
writenowdesign.com

 >>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<
- Web Sites
- Technical Writing
- Editing
- Desktop Publishing

Get Firefox, a Safer, Faster, and Better Browser

On Sep 12, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:58:51 -0700, "Callie Bertsche"
>  wrote:
>
>> - Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
>> tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with
>> MadCap
>> or Flare?
>>
>> In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the
>> following:
>>
>> - Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/
>> update
>> files i

Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:49:35 -0600, Patrick Fortino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

[Amusing rant snipped.]

Since you mention Mif2Go below, a few comments...  OK, it turned
out to be more than a few.  ;-)

>However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will  
>admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time  
>getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm  
>books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do  
>extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the  
>way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect  
>without any mods. 

That's also the case with Mif2Go, for many outputs.  It really
depends on the complexity of your Frame files, and on the number
of bells and whistles you want added.  Many folks tell us they 
are producing deliverable output 15 minutes after download of
the Mif2Go distro.  I wouldn't count on that , but it's way
simpler than other alternatives, IMHO.

>And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help  
>project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set  
>up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease  
>of use was VERY important.

It's almost trivial to use the same settings for multiple projects;
we do that all the time, using conversion templates (Frame files)
and configuration templates (shared .ini files).

>epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real  
>plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output  
>many times a day.

That's always been one of Mif2Go's strengths; it's *very* fast.
It leads to a more productive mode of working, where you can
edit one setting then rerun the project to see the effect... 
in a minute or two.  Not after going out for lunch.  

>One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it  
>uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still  
>only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you  
>have two content sources: robo help and frame.
>
>I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

Both RH and Flare are designed as stand-alone authoring apps.
They "import" Frame, but require some work in their own system
after every import before you get the output you want.  Both
WWP and Mif2Go regard Frame as the authoring app, so you are
always ready to run with the latest content edits.  It's a
fundamental design choice.

>I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, 

Really?  We think it does *more*.  More formats for sure;
for one thing, nobody else does Word output from Frame at 
*all*.  Then there's DITA and DocBook from UNstructured
Frame, Oracle Help for Java (a better JavaHelp), WinHelp
(still needed for some older apps), and Eclipse (which we
added two years ago and which ePP added this summer...).

And our Open Source Web help system, OmniHelp, loads a
lot faster than any other browser-based system, and does
more for you...  See what it does with our 1000-page
User's Guide:
  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/omnihelp.htm

>but requires a LOT more mucking around in the code. 

LOL!  There's no "code" to muck around in; it's all in
compiled C++, not an interpreted template language like 
WWP used.  (That's one reason for the speed difference.)

There *are* settings needed to control various features
in the .ini files, but they are no more complex than
a mapping table has to be, like:

[ParaStyles]
Heading 1=H1

And our Setup looks at your doc and makes reasonable
guesses about what those should be.  You *can* do a
lot more there if you want, but you don't *have* to.

>If price is your bottom line, it might be worth looking at. But 
>I'd be willing to bet that if you keep track of your hours learning 
>mif2go versus epub, the cost difference would be negligible.

Hardly!  We start off at around 1/5 of ePP ($295; the
price of ePP is not listed on its Web site), *include*
a year of support (which most customers never need to
use, BTW, thanks to a very thorough User's Guide) and 
of *all* upgrades.  And then we let you continue with 
support and upgrades forever at $75/year.

The truth is, you can equip a whole workgroup with Mif2Go
licenses for less than *one* ePP license.  And many major
corps have realized that.  One reason we can give free
copies, with full support, to the unemployed and academics,
is that the corporate world supports us very well indeed.

>So that's the sad story. Because webworks is the only game in town,  
>they can get away with their Draconian licensing practices.

Only as long as *you* choose to support those practices.  ;-)  

All the best!

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://www.omsys.com/
___


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ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:49:35 -0600, Patrick Fortino  
wrote:

[Amusing rant snipped.]

Since you mention Mif2Go below, a few comments...  OK, it turned
out to be more than a few.  ;-)

>However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will  
>admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time  
>getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm  
>books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do  
>extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the  
>way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect  
>without any mods. 

That's also the case with Mif2Go, for many outputs.  It really
depends on the complexity of your Frame files, and on the number
of bells and whistles you want added.  Many folks tell us they 
are producing deliverable output 15 minutes after download of
the Mif2Go distro.  I wouldn't count on that , but it's way
simpler than other alternatives, IMHO.

>And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help  
>project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set  
>up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease  
>of use was VERY important.

It's almost trivial to use the same settings for multiple projects;
we do that all the time, using conversion templates (Frame files)
and configuration templates (shared .ini files).

>epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real  
>plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output  
>many times a day.

That's always been one of Mif2Go's strengths; it's *very* fast.
It leads to a more productive mode of working, where you can
edit one setting then rerun the project to see the effect... 
in a minute or two.  Not after going out for lunch.  

>One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it  
>uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still  
>only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you  
>have two content sources: robo help and frame.
>
>I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

Both RH and Flare are designed as stand-alone authoring apps.
They "import" Frame, but require some work in their own system
after every import before you get the output you want.  Both
WWP and Mif2Go regard Frame as the authoring app, so you are
always ready to run with the latest content edits.  It's a
fundamental design choice.

>I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, 

Really?  We think it does *more*.  More formats for sure;
for one thing, nobody else does Word output from Frame at 
*all*.  Then there's DITA and DocBook from UNstructured
Frame, Oracle Help for Java (a better JavaHelp), WinHelp
(still needed for some older apps), and Eclipse (which we
added two years ago and which ePP added this summer...).

And our Open Source Web help system, OmniHelp, loads a
lot faster than any other browser-based system, and does
more for you...  See what it does with our 1000-page
User's Guide:
  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/omnihelp.htm

>but requires a LOT more mucking around in the code. 

LOL!  There's no "code" to muck around in; it's all in
compiled C++, not an interpreted template language like 
WWP used.  (That's one reason for the speed difference.)

There *are* settings needed to control various features
in the .ini files, but they are no more complex than
a mapping table has to be, like:

[ParaStyles]
Heading 1=H1

And our Setup looks at your doc and makes reasonable
guesses about what those should be.  You *can* do a
lot more there if you want, but you don't *have* to.

>If price is your bottom line, it might be worth looking at. But 
>I'd be willing to bet that if you keep track of your hours learning 
>mif2go versus epub, the cost difference would be negligible.

Hardly!  We start off at around 1/5 of ePP ($295; the
price of ePP is not listed on its Web site), *include*
a year of support (which most customers never need to
use, BTW, thanks to a very thorough User's Guide) and 
of *all* upgrades.  And then we let you continue with 
support and upgrades forever at $75/year.

The truth is, you can equip a whole workgroup with Mif2Go
licenses for less than *one* ePP license.  And many major
corps have realized that.  One reason we can give free
copies, with full support, to the unemployed and academics,
is that the corporate world supports us very well indeed.

>So that's the sad story. Because webworks is the only game in town,  
>they can get away with their Draconian licensing practices.

Only as long as *you* choose to support those practices.  ;-)  

All the best!

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
http://www.omsys.com/

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Pat,

For the most part, I agree with your rant. I got off the Webworks train 
years ago because I couldn't afford to keep up with each new version and 
upgrade. As a consultant, there is only so much software I can buy without 
regular paying jobs to support it. Omsys, makers of MIF2Go, are very 
generous with consultants, probably because we are more inclined to 
recommend their product if they keep us in the loop. And their support is 
unparalleled in the software world.

I think you contradicted yourself a bit when you said, "But I'd be willing 
to bet that if you keep track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the 
cost difference would be negligible." After all, you wasted an entire day 
trying to get it installed, none of their support is free, documentation is 
lousy, and there is no discounted upgrade path. And the cost of entry is 
much higher to start with. Even with the intial setup, MIF2Go is a much 
better value, in my opinion.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Patrick Fortino]

First let me say that I think that ePublisher licenses are  
highway robbery. For example, they do not allow you to upgrade from an  
older version; instead, you pay the full price.  I had webworks  
publisher pro, or whatever the version was before epublisher. No  
upgrade path for that because I did not upgrade when epublisher came  
out. I'd like to know what software planet webworks operates on,  
because I have NEVER bought ANY software that did not have an upgrade  
path.

Also, webworks support will cost you plenty. NOTHING is free. Example,  
even though we bought two new licences and had difficulties installing  
it on one of our machines, Webwork offers NO support for this. This  
really pissed me off, especially since it turns out that my install  
problems were due to their poor documentation (there was no mention  
that you could only have one version of frame installed. I wasted a  
complete day getting the install to work).

Their documentation is almost worthless. It's essentially a functional  
spec; eg, this function does this, this function does that, etc. There  
is very little "How To" help in the so-called "help" file. And to make  
it even worse, they don't even have a forum where you can post  
questions; you have to go to the yahoo webworks group which is  
supported by some very kindly webworks users.

However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will  
admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time  
getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm  
books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do  
extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the  
way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect  
without any mods. And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help  
project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set  
up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease  
of use was VERY important.

epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real  
plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output  
many times a day.

One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it  
uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still  
only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you  
have two content sources: robo help and frame.

I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, but requires a LOT  
more mucking around in the code. If price is your bottom line, it  
might be worth looking at. But I'd be willing to bet that if you keep  
track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the cost difference  
would be negligible.

So that's the sad story. Because webworks is the only game in town,  
they can get away with their Draconian licensing practices.

--
Pat Fortino
writenowdesign.com

 >>|
- Web Sites
- Technical Writing
- Editing
- Desktop Publishing

Get Firefox, a Safer, Faster, and Better Browser

On Sep 12, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:58:51 -0700, "Callie Bertsche"
>  wrote:
>
>> - Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
>> tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with  
>> MadCap
>> or Flare?
>>
>> In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the  
>> following:
>>
>> - Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/ 
>> update
>> files in help project file)
>> - Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from  
>> the
>> document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help
>
> You might look at Mif2Go, if you haven't lately.  It does both of
> those things, and in fact everything that ePP does with FrameMaker,
> and more.  (ePP can also process other XML sources, and Word source
> docs, which Mif2Go does not; we're FrameMaker-only).  Mif2Go is also
> a lot more affordable, way faster, and we think produces better  
> output.
> Try the free unlimited demo, and see for yourself:
>  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm
>
>> Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
>
> HTH!
>
> -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
>http://www.omsys.com/
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as pxforti at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/pxforti%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Pat,

For the most part, I agree with your rant. I got off the Webworks train 
years ago because I couldn't afford to keep up with each new version and 
upgrade. As a consultant, there is only so much software I can buy without 
regular paying jobs to support it. Omsys, makers of MIF2Go, are very 
generous with consultants, probably because we are more inclined to 
recommend their product if they keep us in the loop. And their support is 
unparalleled in the software world.

I think you contradicted yourself a bit when you said, "But I'd be willing 
to bet that if you keep track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the 
cost difference would be negligible." After all, you wasted an entire day 
trying to get it installed, none of their support is free, documentation is 
lousy, and there is no discounted upgrade path. And the cost of entry is 
much higher to start with. Even with the intial setup, MIF2Go is a much 
better value, in my opinion.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


___


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Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Patrick Fortino]

First let me say that I think that ePublisher licenses are  
highway robbery. For example, they do not allow you to upgrade from an  
older version; instead, you pay the full price.  I had webworks  
publisher pro, or whatever the version was before epublisher. No  
upgrade path for that because I did not upgrade when epublisher came  
out. I'd like to know what software planet webworks operates on,  
because I have NEVER bought ANY software that did not have an upgrade  
path.

Also, webworks support will cost you plenty. NOTHING is free. Example,  
even though we bought two new licences and had difficulties installing  
it on one of our machines, Webwork offers NO support for this. This  
really pissed me off, especially since it turns out that my install  
problems were due to their poor documentation (there was no mention  
that you could only have one version of frame installed. I wasted a  
complete day getting the install to work).

Their documentation is almost worthless. It's essentially a functional  
spec; eg, this function does this, this function does that, etc. There  
is very little "How To" help in the so-called "help" file. And to make  
it even worse, they don't even have a forum where you can post  
questions; you have to go to the yahoo webworks group which is  
supported by some very kindly webworks users.

However, now that you know my opinion of Webworks as a company, I will  
admit that the new epubisher a pretty nice tool. I had a hard time  
getting used to the new interface, but once I did, it converted my fm  
books pretty flawlessly. With Webworks Publisher, I would have to do  
extensive template modificaitons to get the html output to look the  
way I wanted it to look. But with epub, the output was almost perfect  
without any mods. And it was VERY EASY to set up a multi-volume help  
project (one with many different books). Because I was helping to set  
up this project for users who beginner frame  and webworks users, ease  
of use was VERY important.

epub is also much faster than wwpub pro at converting fm books. A real  
plus when you are developing a new project and need to generate output  
many times a day.

One of the best things about epub, compared to robo help is that it  
uses your frame docs as the source. Last I checked, robo help still  
only uses the frame docs to import the project. Once imported, you  
have two content sources: robo help and frame.

I haven't use flare so can't comment on it.

I tried mif2go; it can almost do what epub can do, but requires a LOT  
more mucking around in the code. If price is your bottom line, it  
might be worth looking at. But I'd be willing to bet that if you keep  
track of your hours learning mif2go versus epub, the cost difference  
would be negligible.

So that's the sad story. Because webworks is the only game in town,  
they can get away with their Draconian licensing practices.

--
Pat Fortino
writenowdesign.com

 >>|
- Web Sites
- Technical Writing
- Editing
- Desktop Publishing

Get Firefox, a Safer, Faster, and Better Browser

On Sep 12, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:58:51 -0700, "Callie Bertsche"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> - Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
>> tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with  
>> MadCap
>> or Flare?
>>
>> In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the  
>> following:
>>
>> - Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/ 
>> update
>> files in help project file)
>> - Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from  
>> the
>> document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help
>
> You might look at Mif2Go, if you haven't lately.  It does both of
> those things, and in fact everything that ePP does with FrameMaker,
> and more.  (ePP can also process other XML sources, and Word source
> docs, which Mif2Go does not; we're FrameMaker-only).  Mif2Go is also
> a lot more affordable, way faster, and we think produces better  
> output.
> Try the free unlimited demo, and see for yourself:
>  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm
>
>> Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
>
> HTH!
>
> -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://www.omsys.com/
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/pxforti%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PR

Re: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:58:51 -0700, "Callie Bertsche" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
>tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
>or Flare?
> 
>In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:
> 
>- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
>files in help project file)
>- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
>document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help

You might look at Mif2Go, if you haven't lately.  It does both of
those things, and in fact everything that ePP does with FrameMaker,
and more.  (ePP can also process other XML sources, and Word source 
docs, which Mif2Go does not; we're FrameMaker-only).  Mif2Go is also 
a lot more affordable, way faster, and we think produces better output.
Try the free unlimited demo, and see for yourself:
  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm
 
>Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!

HTH!

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://www.omsys.com/
___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:58:51 -0700, "Callie Bertsche" 
 wrote:

>- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
>tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
>or Flare?
> 
>In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:
> 
>- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
>files in help project file)
>- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
>document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help

You might look at Mif2Go, if you haven't lately.  It does both of
those things, and in fact everything that ePP does with FrameMaker,
and more.  (ePP can also process other XML sources, and Word source 
docs, which Mif2Go does not; we're FrameMaker-only).  Mif2Go is also 
a lot more affordable, way faster, and we think produces better output.
Try the free unlimited demo, and see for yourself:
  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm

>Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!

HTH!

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
http://www.omsys.com/

RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Matt Sullivan]

I suspect for less than that upgrade to ePubPro you can get the full
Technical Communication Suite, and have Captivate & Acrobat 9 Pro Extended
to boot.

The TCS integration was developed to handle your Frame files by reference, &
easily handles your variables and conditions as defined in Frame.

Look for lots of help here and in the Adobe User Forums for specifics on how
to map your Frame components to appropriate RoboHelp components.

As with any change in workflow, the initial mappings and conversion take
some time, but are wonderful once completed.

If you need help easing the transition, I'm available for training and
conversion work.



-Matt Sullivan

 

GRAFIX Training, Inc.

An Adobe Authorized Training Center

www.grafixtraining.com

888 882-2819

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Callie Bertsche
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:59 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

Hi Framaniacs ;)
 
I generate 10+ manuals from FrameMaker 7.2 into PDFs, with extensive
single sourcing material. Currently, I've been using WebWorks ePublisher
Pro 9.1 (I just did an old maintenance upgrade to 9.2, actually) to
generate several thousand help pages (between different
projects/products).
 
I just received an offer from ePublisher Pro to upgrade to their 2008.2
(9.5) edition for the cost of software maintenance, since I'm on an
unsupported (old) version. Primarily I'm wondering:
 
- Do other writers with similar publishing needs consider ePubPro a
competitive product?
- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
or Flare?
 
In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:
 
- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
files in help project file)
- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help
 
Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
Cheers,
Callie
___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
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m

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Matt Sullivan]

I suspect for less than that upgrade to ePubPro you can get the full
Technical Communication Suite, and have Captivate & Acrobat 9 Pro Extended
to boot.

The TCS integration was developed to handle your Frame files by reference, &
easily handles your variables and conditions as defined in Frame.

Look for lots of help here and in the Adobe User Forums for specifics on how
to map your Frame components to appropriate RoboHelp components.

As with any change in workflow, the initial mappings and conversion take
some time, but are wonderful once completed.

If you need help easing the transition, I'm available for training and
conversion work.



-Matt Sullivan



GRAFIX Training, Inc.

An Adobe Authorized Training Center

www.grafixtraining.com

888 882-2819

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Callie Bertsche
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:59 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

Hi Framaniacs ;)

I generate 10+ manuals from FrameMaker 7.2 into PDFs, with extensive
single sourcing material. Currently, I've been using WebWorks ePublisher
Pro 9.1 (I just did an old maintenance upgrade to 9.2, actually) to
generate several thousand help pages (between different
projects/products).

I just received an offer from ePublisher Pro to upgrade to their 2008.2
(9.5) edition for the cost of software maintenance, since I'm on an
unsupported (old) version. Primarily I'm wondering:

- Do other writers with similar publishing needs consider ePubPro a
competitive product?
- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
or Flare?

In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:

- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
files in help project file)
- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help

Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
Cheers,
Callie
___


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Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
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Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Sharon Burton]

***Vendor post***

We just released Flare 4, which will do everything I suspect you need and
more. You can download a trial version at www.madcapsoftware.com and sign up
for a demo, if you want. The demo is good, in that it will shows you some of
what the product does.

We can certainly dynamically link to Frame files, not problems. We easily do
multiple sets of variables, including importing the variables in your Frame
files. And the conditions come thru easy pleasey.


sharon

Sharon Burton
951-369-8590


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Callie
Bertsche
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:59 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help


Hi Framaniacs ;)

I generate 10+ manuals from FrameMaker 7.2 into PDFs, with extensive
single sourcing material. Currently, I've been using WebWorks ePublisher
Pro 9.1 (I just did an old maintenance upgrade to 9.2, actually) to
generate several thousand help pages (between different
projects/products).

I just received an offer from ePublisher Pro to upgrade to their 2008.2
(9.5) edition for the cost of software maintenance, since I'm on an
unsupported (old) version. Primarily I'm wondering:

- Do other writers with similar publishing needs consider ePubPro a
competitive product?
- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
or Flare?

In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:

- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
files in help project file)
- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help

Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
Cheers,
Callie

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Sharon Burton]

***Vendor post***

We just released Flare 4, which will do everything I suspect you need and
more. You can download a trial version at www.madcapsoftware.com and sign up
for a demo, if you want. The demo is good, in that it will shows you some of
what the product does.

We can certainly dynamically link to Frame files, not problems. We easily do
multiple sets of variables, including importing the variables in your Frame
files. And the conditions come thru easy pleasey.


sharon

Sharon Burton
951-369-8590


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of Callie
Bertsche
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 2:59 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help


Hi Framaniacs ;)

I generate 10+ manuals from FrameMaker 7.2 into PDFs, with extensive
single sourcing material. Currently, I've been using WebWorks ePublisher
Pro 9.1 (I just did an old maintenance upgrade to 9.2, actually) to
generate several thousand help pages (between different
projects/products).

I just received an offer from ePublisher Pro to upgrade to their 2008.2
(9.5) edition for the cost of software maintenance, since I'm on an
unsupported (old) version. Primarily I'm wondering:

- Do other writers with similar publishing needs consider ePubPro a
competitive product?
- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
or Flare?

In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:

- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
files in help project file)
- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help

Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
Cheers,
Callie

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Callie Bertsche]

Hi Framaniacs ;)
 
I generate 10+ manuals from FrameMaker 7.2 into PDFs, with extensive
single sourcing material. Currently, I've been using WebWorks ePublisher
Pro 9.1 (I just did an old maintenance upgrade to 9.2, actually) to
generate several thousand help pages (between different
projects/products).
 
I just received an offer from ePublisher Pro to upgrade to their 2008.2
(9.5) edition for the cost of software maintenance, since I'm on an
unsupported (old) version. Primarily I'm wondering:
 
- Do other writers with similar publishing needs consider ePubPro a
competitive product?
- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
or Flare?
 
In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:
 
- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
files in help project file)
- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help
 
Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
Cheers,
Callie
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

ePublisher Pro vs. other generated online help

[Callie Bertsche]

Hi Framaniacs ;)

I generate 10+ manuals from FrameMaker 7.2 into PDFs, with extensive
single sourcing material. Currently, I've been using WebWorks ePublisher
Pro 9.1 (I just did an old maintenance upgrade to 9.2, actually) to
generate several thousand help pages (between different
projects/products).

I just received an offer from ePublisher Pro to upgrade to their 2008.2
(9.5) edition for the cost of software maintenance, since I'm on an
unsupported (old) version. Primarily I'm wondering:

- Do other writers with similar publishing needs consider ePubPro a
competitive product?
- Have other products sharpened their competitive edge since our last
tool decision (a few years ago)? For instance, comparisons with MadCap
or Flare?

In considering a new product, I know immediately I value the following:

- Dynamic connection with FrameMaker documents (ability to rescan/update
files in help project file)
- Ability to set variables and conditions or pass them through from the
document, in a user-friendly manner, when building the help

Thanks for any "help" on the help anyone has time to give!
Cheers,
Callie