Re: [Framework-Team] Re: PLIP Community Imapacts
On 14 Mar 2009, at 00:13, Jon Stahl wrote: East coast is significantly easier for the Europeans, both in travel time and intensity of jetlag. But all is open to discussion. They rallied to CA for the PSPS. :-) To be honest, the travel time isn't a massive factor, it only adds a few hours, going to the US is a commitment regardless of the coast. Also, I can adjust to the timezone to quite a decent margin of error by sleeping on flights, although I'm aware many people find that difficult. For me the only issue is flight costs, as I'm still a student I can only work part time, and that doesn't leave me much spreadin' around money; best case scenario for flight costs leaves the east-coast about $100 cheaper, but often they're a lot closer. So, my criterion is "near a large international airport" for the getting of cheap flights, rather than blanket east-coast. MAtt ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: PLIP Community Imapacts
"Jon Stahl" writes: >> >> East coast... summer... Ugh. :) > > East coast is significantly easier for the Europeans, both in travel > time and intensity of jetlag. But all is open to discussion. They > rallied to CA for the PSPS. :-) Just to be clear that was an utterly petty response about the location and should in no way be taken as feedback or comment. I won't even comment on the general European lack of fortitude. :) Ross ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: PLIP Community Imapacts
I think this is a fantastic idea! Count me in for helping. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Jon Stahl wrote: >> >> East coast... summer... Ugh. :) > > East coast is significantly easier for the Europeans, both in travel > time and intensity of jetlag. But all is open to discussion. They > rallied to CA for the PSPS. :-) > > :jon -- Steve McMahon Reid-McMahon, LLC st...@reidmcmahon.com st...@dcn.org ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
RE: [Framework-Team] Re: PLIP Community Imapacts
> > East coast... summer... Ugh. :) East coast is significantly easier for the Europeans, both in travel time and intensity of jetlag. But all is open to discussion. They rallied to CA for the PSPS. :-) :jon ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: PLIP Community Imapacts
"Jon Stahl" writes: >> Ross Patterson writes: >> >> > So far, much of the Plone 4 work has happened in narrower circles to >> > free it up for prototyping, visioning, and imagining new approaches. >> > This has been in part to isolate such a process from the paralysis >> > that can come from discussion of edge cases or disagreements which > are >> > more proper and valuable at a later stage. I raised a concern that > as >> > we start presenting this work more publicly, we should think about >> > communicating and setting expectations for the impact of the > backwards >> > incompatible changes > > FWIW, Joel Burton raised some concerns along these lines as well when I > spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. > > We hashed around the idea (which I've also spoken of with Alex) of > actually doing some sort of in-person "focus group" style event, where > the P4 FWT could present some of the work-in-progress on Plone 4 (e.g. > deliverance, dexterity, deco) to a small panel of selected community > members (e.g. trusted "typical integrator" types) to get feedback not > only on what we need to improve/document better but also how we should > go about best explaining/framing the changes so they don't cause undue > alarm. I like that idea. We, as developers, may be liable to miss the target when trying to address community impact without such direction. > I would be willing to do some work to help organize such an event, and > I would not at all be surprised if the Foundation were willing to > provide some underwriting (e.g. buy some plane tickets) but of course > it is the participation/leadership of the FWT that would be the key to > making it happen. I'd like to hear about how wide interest in this might be. Anyone? > I could imagine this event, with fewer than 20 people, happening on > the east coast USA sometime this summer (much depends on code > readiness, I suppose). One might potentially define this as a > spiritual successor to the 2008 PSPS event, but I would avoid using > the terms "strategic" "planning" or "summit" to describe it. Maybe a > "Plone 4 Framing Workshop." ;-) East coast... summer... Ugh. :) The Californian, Ross ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
RE: [Framework-Team] PLIP Community Imapacts
> Ross Patterson writes: > > > So far, much of the Plone 4 work has happened in narrower circles to > > free it up for prototyping, visioning, and imagining new approaches. > > This has been in part to isolate such a process from the paralysis > > that can come from discussion of edge cases or disagreements which are > > more proper and valuable at a later stage. I raised a concern that as > > we start presenting this work more publicly, we should think about > > communicating and setting expectations for the impact of the backwards > > incompatible changes FWIW, Joel Burton raised some concerns along these lines as well when I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. We hashed around the idea (which I've also spoken of with Alex) of actually doing some sort of in-person "focus group" style event, where the P4 FWT could present some of the work-in-progress on Plone 4 (e.g. deliverance, dexterity, deco) to a small panel of selected community members (e.g. trusted "typical integrator" types) to get feedback not only on what we need to improve/document better but also how we should go about best explaining/framing the changes so they don't cause undue alarm. I would be willing to do some work to help organize such an event, and I would not at all be surprised if the Foundation were willing to provide some underwriting (e.g. buy some plane tickets) but of course it is the participation/leadership of the FWT that would be the key to making it happen. I could imagine this event, with fewer than 20 people, happening on the east coast USA sometime this summer (much depends on code readiness, I suppose). One might potentially define this as a spiritual successor to the 2008 PSPS event, but I would avoid using the terms "strategic" "planning" or "summit" to describe it. Maybe a "Plone 4 Framing Workshop." ;-) $0.02, jon ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting"
Matthew Wilkes wrote: > On 13 Mar 2009, at 19:30, Hanno Schlichting wrote: > >> Matthew Wilkes wrote: >>> I've tried to include all the relevant possible times in this, let me >>> know if there's another I should add. >> >> I'll be at PyCon in that week and have no idea what my time schedule is >> going to be. I'll try to join on whatever time others agree. > > To be clear, that week was chosen as it's around the right time and is > after DST starts in Europe so it is repeatable. Please sign up when > you're USUALLY available, even if you're not on that particular day. Ah ok, others please follow this advice :) As noted in my other comments, I have no idea yet what my availability will be after that week. Anything "usual" ends for me again next Tuesday and I'll yet have to find out what my "new usual" will be. Once I'm in Copenhagen after Easter and things have settled a bit I can update this :) Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting"
On 13 Mar 2009, at 19:30, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Matthew Wilkes wrote: I've tried to include all the relevant possible times in this, let me know if there's another I should add. I'll be at PyCon in that week and have no idea what my time schedule is going to be. I'll try to join on whatever time others agree. To be clear, that week was chosen as it's around the right time and is after DST starts in Europe so it is repeatable. Please sign up when you're USUALLY available, even if you're not on that particular day. Matt ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting"
On Mar 13, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Ross Patterson wrote: Hanno Schlichting writes: Matthew Wilkes wrote: I've tried to include all the relevant possible times in this, let me know if there's another I should add. I'll be at PyCon in that week and have no idea what my time schedule is going to be. I'll try to join on whatever time others agree. In general I'll be on vacation from April 1st until April 13th with limited internet access. From April 14th until end of June I'm going to work on-site at a customer in Copenhagen. My internet access and availability might be reduced at the start and exact work times are still a bit unclear. I won't be available on IRC or for immediate comments through-out the workday in those months. I think this is just meant as a *sample* week to be used to set the recurring meeting time for widest possible attendance so don't worry if you're gone *that particular* week. Right? That is what I had in mind. -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | http://www.sixfeetup.com Phone: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 cal...@sixfeetup.com ANNOUNCING the first Plone Immersive Training Experience | Sept. 10-11-12, 2009 http://sixfeetup.com/immerse ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting"
I'll also be at PyCon, we can have a real face to face meeting :-) Cal On Mar 13, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Matthew Wilkes wrote: I've tried to include all the relevant possible times in this, let me know if there's another I should add. I'll be at PyCon in that week and have no idea what my time schedule is going to be. I'll try to join on whatever time others agree. In general I'll be on vacation from April 1st until April 13th with limited internet access. From April 14th until end of June I'm going to work on-site at a customer in Copenhagen. My internet access and availability might be reduced at the start and exact work times are still a bit unclear. I won't be available on IRC or for immediate comments through-out the workday in those months. Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | http://www.sixfeetup.com Phone: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 cal...@sixfeetup.com ANNOUNCING the first Plone Immersive Training Experience | Sept. 10-11-12, 2009 http://sixfeetup.com/immerse ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting"
Hanno Schlichting writes: > Matthew Wilkes wrote: >> I've tried to include all the relevant possible times in this, let me >> know if there's another I should add. > > I'll be at PyCon in that week and have no idea what my time schedule is > going to be. I'll try to join on whatever time others agree. > > In general I'll be on vacation from April 1st until April 13th with > limited internet access. From April 14th until end of June I'm going to > work on-site at a customer in Copenhagen. My internet access and > availability might be reduced at the start and exact work times are > still a bit unclear. I won't be available on IRC or for immediate > comments through-out the workday in those months. I think this is just meant as a *sample* week to be used to set the recurring meeting time for widest possible attendance so don't worry if you're gone *that particular* week. Right? Ross ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Quick team meeting
Hanno Schlichting writes: >> So far, much of the Plone 4 work has happened in narrower circles to >> free it up for prototyping, visioning, and imagining new approaches. >> This has been in part to isolate such a process from the paralysis that >> can come from discussion of edge cases or disagreements which are more >> proper and valuable at a later stage. I raised a concern that as we >> start presenting this work more publicly, we should think about >> communicating and setting expectations for the impact of the backwards >> incompatible changes. I proposed adding an explicit, formalized part of >> the PLIP procedure for community impact assessments. I'd love a better >> name, but the idea is a place to communicate to the various parts of >> Plone communities (developers, integrators, themers, users, etc.), >> "Here's what you need to know to update your code/skills. Here's where >> to find documentation." I offered to take the lead on this. > > Sounds good. I think this is a logical extension of the "Documentation > Impact" section we added to the 3.3 PLIP process. Yeah, I'm now finding myself rethinking "documentation". It might help focus to think of it as "communication", where the problem being solved is communicating to the wider community. > One of the things I'd like to have a more important role in the PLIP > process is the "upgrade guide" we have on plone.org. I think taking the > "What's New" documentation from Python > (http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.6.html) as an example could be > valuable here. I tried to introduce this to Zope2 at > http://docs.zope.org/zope2/releases/2.12/WHATSNEW.html with the chapters > written about Acquisition and IContainer changes. That's an excellent point to tie into. If we do most of the work as a part of the PLIP, then that'll increase the likelihood of effective documentation making it into such an "upgrade guide". > This kind of information is probably best written by a combination of > the documentation team as we've done it for Plone 3.3 with more > involvement of the PLIP authors themselves. Yeah, I just want to make sure that it's *structurally* a part of the PLIP process. Ross ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting"
Matthew Wilkes wrote: > I've tried to include all the relevant possible times in this, let me > know if there's another I should add. I'll be at PyCon in that week and have no idea what my time schedule is going to be. I'll try to join on whatever time others agree. In general I'll be on vacation from April 1st until April 13th with limited internet access. From April 14th until end of June I'm going to work on-site at a customer in Copenhagen. My internet access and availability might be reduced at the start and exact work times are still a bit unclear. I won't be available on IRC or for immediate comments through-out the workday in those months. Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Quick team meeting
Ross Patterson wrote: > Hanno Schlichting > writes: > > Four of us (calvinhp, ErikRose, ErikRose, zenwryly) made it to the > meeting and came up with a few things to act on. I'll briefly describe > them here so we can discuss. Awesome! > Some of the discussion centered around possible changes or > clarifications to the PLIP process. This begged the question, where is > PLIP procedure documented? The two current main sources of written documentation are: https://dev.plone.org/plone/wiki/FrameworkTeam and hidden in http://plone.org/documentation/manual/plone-developer-reference/overview/referencemanual-all-pages it would be good if the relevant bits from the latter could be incorporated into the wiki. The general idea is to have all "development of" type information inside the Trac wiki. > As hanno said: > >> I tried to take the initiative back in January to incorporate the >> changed process from the Plone 3.x framework team and required >> adjustments for the 4.0 process into our official process >> documentation. The discussion hasn't been very fruitful and ended >> without a clear result. > > So we need to determine the official home for the PLIP process > documentation and evaluate the status of that which calvinhp said he'd > take the lead on. See above. I think the process for the 3.x release and 4.0 release should be somewhat different. 4.0 is supposed to make many more interconnected and radical changes, as we ever do in a single 3.x release. The process needs to reflect this in some way. But I would appreciate it if Calvin could indeed take the lead on this and I'll be happy to comment and give my feedback. > Since the Americans refused to distinguish themselves with clearly > recognizable accents :) , I'm not sure whether it was calvinhp or > ErikRose who suggested that we start sort of public presentation of > changes happening in Plone 4. The main goal is to reduce surprises. We > agreed that an informal process of blogging in more widely accessible > language about what makes it into the ChangeLog would be good. This > could also be a way to collect feedback as well. Discussion through > blog comments may become a problem but we'll tackle that if it comes to > Pass. ErikRose said he'd take the lead on this. This sounds like an excellent idea. I tried to write up something in less technical terms inside those "Trac PLIP's" which hopefully go into the direction of this. They haven't seen too widespread exposure yet, from what I know. Is this the kind of information you are looking for? There is even some more high-level roadmap information that isn't written down at any point but has only been communicated in informal conversations. I'd be happy to try to bring some of those to the public in form of blog posts or any other form people find valuable. > So far, much of the Plone 4 work has happened in narrower circles to > free it up for prototyping, visioning, and imagining new approaches. > This has been in part to isolate such a process from the paralysis that > can come from discussion of edge cases or disagreements which are more > proper and valuable at a later stage. I raised a concern that as we > start presenting this work more publicly, we should think about > communicating and setting expectations for the impact of the backwards > incompatible changes. I proposed adding an explicit, formalized part of > the PLIP procedure for community impact assessments. I'd love a better > name, but the idea is a place to communicate to the various parts of > Plone communities (developers, integrators, themers, users, etc.), > "Here's what you need to know to update your code/skills. Here's where > to find documentation." I offered to take the lead on this. Sounds good. I think this is a logical extension of the "Documentation Impact" section we added to the 3.3 PLIP process. One of the things I'd like to have a more important role in the PLIP process is the "upgrade guide" we have on plone.org. I think taking the "What's New" documentation from Python (http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.6.html) as an example could be valuable here. I tried to introduce this to Zope2 at http://docs.zope.org/zope2/releases/2.12/WHATSNEW.html with the chapters written about Acquisition and IContainer changes. This kind of information is probably best written by a combination of the documentation team as we've done it for Plone 3.3 with more involvement of the PLIP authors themselves. Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Scheduling 4.0 FWT Meetings (was: Quick team meeting)
Looks like Matthew Wilkes already set one up. Let's go with his since he used some of the additional features in his version. Cheers, Calvin On Mar 13, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: On Mar 13, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: Mr. Wilkes, can you post the link to that scheduling software that you mentioned on the call? We can setup a mock week and basically vote on which days/times work best. Chris Calloway pointed me to this, let's give it a try: http://doodle.com/a427azhi6pxf3by8 Please note that we are attempting to setup a standing meeting. I'm thinking once every 2 weeks, but please provide feedback. Cheers, Calvin -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | http://www.sixfeetup.com Phone: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 cal...@sixfeetup.com ANNOUNCING the first Plone Immersive Training Experience | Sept. 10-11-12, 2009 http://sixfeetup.com/immerse ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | http://www.sixfeetup.com Phone: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 cal...@sixfeetup.com ANNOUNCING the first Plone Immersive Training Experience | Sept. 10-11-12, 2009 http://sixfeetup.com/immerse ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Scheduling 4.0 FWT Meetings (was: Quick team meeting)
On Mar 13, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: Mr. Wilkes, can you post the link to that scheduling software that you mentioned on the call? We can setup a mock week and basically vote on which days/times work best. Sorry, sent from the wrong address and it didn't get through sharpish, resent now. Matt ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Fwd: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting"
Hi all, I've tried to include all the relevant possible times in this, let me know if there's another I should add. Matt Begin forwarded message: From: Doodle Mailer Date: 13 March 2009 18:27:28 GMT To: matt...@matthewwilkes.co.uk Subject: Doodle: Link for poll "Framework Team Meeting" Reply-To: matt...@matthewwilkes.co.uk You have initiated a poll "Framework Team Meeting" at Doodle. The link to your poll is: http://www.doodle.com/ucb3w2fcqieken28 Share this link with all those who should cast their votes. Do not forget to cast your vote, too. (If you did not initiate this poll, somebody must accidentally have used your e-mail address; simply ignore this e-mail, please.) ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Scheduling 4.0 FWT Meetings (was: Quick team meeting)
On Mar 13, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: Mr. Wilkes, can you post the link to that scheduling software that you mentioned on the call? We can setup a mock week and basically vote on which days/times work best. Chris Calloway pointed me to this, let's give it a try: http://doodle.com/a427azhi6pxf3by8 Please note that we are attempting to setup a standing meeting. I'm thinking once every 2 weeks, but please provide feedback. Cheers, Calvin -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | http://www.sixfeetup.com Phone: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 cal...@sixfeetup.com ANNOUNCING the first Plone Immersive Training Experience | Sept. 10-11-12, 2009 http://sixfeetup.com/immerse ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Quick team meeting
Thanks for the excellent summary! Previously Ross Patterson wrote: > The last item concerned future meetings. When should we do this meeting > in the future? Every other week or every third work? Thursday? > Friday? Would all of the FWT members weigh in with both preferences and > outright scheduling conflicts for future meetings. Then we can > reconcile that information and schedule a regular meeting. Workdays do not work for me. Mornings in the weekend are probably best. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Scheduling 4.0 FWT Meetings (was: Quick team meeting)
On Mar 13, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Ross Patterson wrote: Ross Patterson writes: The last item concerned future meetings. When should we do this meeting in the future? Every other week or every third work? Thursday? Friday? Would all of the FWT members weigh in with both preferences and outright scheduling conflicts for future meetings. Then we can reconcile that information and schedule a regular meeting. I prefer any day in the middle of the week, Tues-Thurs, since I'm much more likely to have to miss meetings on Fridays or Mondays. calvinhp also raised a good point that people doing their 10% Plone on Fridays could use a Thursday meeting to inform their work on Friday. Similarly, I think later in the week is better than earlier in the week, such as Tuesday or Wednesday, because it can help inform work done over the weekend. My only preference for time is that it be after 10AM Pacific time. :) Mr. Wilkes, can you post the link to that scheduling software that you mentioned on the call? We can setup a mock week and basically vote on which days/times work best. Cheers, Calvin -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | http://www.sixfeetup.com Phone: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 cal...@sixfeetup.com ANNOUNCING the first Plone Immersive Training Experience | Sept. 10-11-12, 2009 http://sixfeetup.com/immerse ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Scheduling 4.0 FWT Meetings (was: Quick team meeting)
Ross Patterson writes: > The last item concerned future meetings. When should we do this > meeting in the future? Every other week or every third work? > Thursday? Friday? Would all of the FWT members weigh in with both > preferences and outright scheduling conflicts for future meetings. > Then we can reconcile that information and schedule a regular meeting. I prefer any day in the middle of the week, Tues-Thurs, since I'm much more likely to have to miss meetings on Fridays or Mondays. calvinhp also raised a good point that people doing their 10% Plone on Fridays could use a Thursday meeting to inform their work on Friday. Similarly, I think later in the week is better than earlier in the week, such as Tuesday or Wednesday, because it can help inform work done over the weekend. My only preference for time is that it be after 10AM Pacific time. :) Ross ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] PLIP Community Imapacts (was: Quick team meeting)
Ross Patterson writes: > So far, much of the Plone 4 work has happened in narrower circles to > free it up for prototyping, visioning, and imagining new approaches. > This has been in part to isolate such a process from the paralysis > that can come from discussion of edge cases or disagreements which are > more proper and valuable at a later stage. I raised a concern that as > we start presenting this work more publicly, we should think about > communicating and setting expectations for the impact of the backwards > incompatible changes. I proposed adding an explicit, formalized part > of the PLIP procedure for community impact assessments. I'd love a > better name, but the idea is a place to communicate to the various > parts of Plone communities (developers, integrators, themers, users, > etc.), "Here's what you need to know to update your code/skills. > Here's where to find documentation." I offered to take the lead on > this. One of the hopes I have for this is that many times when a PLIP contributor goes to say "Here's where to find documentation", they'll discover it doesn't yet exist and that these discoveries might be a part of substantially improving Plone documentation. At any rate, I'd like to open this up for discussion on this thread. Chime in! Ross ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Quick team meeting
Hanno Schlichting writes: > Thanks for taking the initiative here. > > I'll not gonna make it to todays tune-up nor the conf call, though :( Four of us (calvinhp, ErikRose, ErikRose, zenwryly) made it to the meeting and came up with a few things to act on. I'll briefly describe them here so we can discuss. Some of the discussion centered around possible changes or clarifications to the PLIP process. This begged the question, where is PLIP procedure documented? As hanno said: > I tried to take the initiative back in January to incorporate the > changed process from the Plone 3.x framework team and required > adjustments for the 4.0 process into our official process > documentation. The discussion hasn't been very fruitful and ended > without a clear result. So we need to determine the official home for the PLIP process documentation and evaluate the status of that which calvinhp said he'd take the lead on. Since the Americans refused to distinguish themselves with clearly recognizable accents :) , I'm not sure whether it was calvinhp or ErikRose who suggested that we start sort of public presentation of changes happening in Plone 4. The main goal is to reduce surprises. We agreed that an informal process of blogging in more widely accessible language about what makes it into the ChangeLog would be good. This could also be a way to collect feedback as well. Discussion through blog comments may become a problem but we'll tackle that if it comes to Pass. ErikRose said he'd take the lead on this. So far, much of the Plone 4 work has happened in narrower circles to free it up for prototyping, visioning, and imagining new approaches. This has been in part to isolate such a process from the paralysis that can come from discussion of edge cases or disagreements which are more proper and valuable at a later stage. I raised a concern that as we start presenting this work more publicly, we should think about communicating and setting expectations for the impact of the backwards incompatible changes. I proposed adding an explicit, formalized part of the PLIP procedure for community impact assessments. I'd love a better name, but the idea is a place to communicate to the various parts of Plone communities (developers, integrators, themers, users, etc.), "Here's what you need to know to update your code/skills. Here's where to find documentation." I offered to take the lead on this. The last item concerned future meetings. When should we do this meeting in the future? Every other week or every third work? Thursday? Friday? Would all of the FWT members weigh in with both preferences and outright scheduling conflicts for future meetings. Then we can reconcile that information and schedule a regular meeting. Those present on the call can add details in response to this message and discussions can start from there. Ross ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Re: Quick team meeting
Hanno Schlichting wrote: Hi Calvin. Thanks for taking the initiative here. I'll not gonna make it to todays tune-up nor the conf call, though :( Same for me :-( But I'm delighted to see this happening. [..] In my dual role of release manager and major code contributer I have payed too little attention on communicating the changes and ideas for the 4.0 release. I'd welcome suggestions on how to improve this situation and ways of turning "Hanno's playground called trunk" back into a managed collaborative environment. Maybe by morphing Hanno into Plone? ;-) (sorry, couldn't resist) Raphael Cheers, Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Re: Quick team meeting
Hi Calvin. Thanks for taking the initiative here. I'll not gonna make it to todays tune-up nor the conf call, though :( Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: > The next one is this Friday and I'd suggest that we meet at 17:00 GMT. > I'll send out Yugma conference info so we can share desktops if needed. > Their service supports skype so make sure to download the Yugma SE > plugin for skype if you want to skype into the call. > > https://www.yugma.com/share_skype.php > > For the first meeting I'd like to suggest: > * That everyone checkout Plone 4 locally so we can talk at a very high > level about the roadmap for this release > * Better documentation for developers and the PLIP process and how it > has changed What we have in terms of documentation for the release so far is: 1. A mailing list discussion about the high-level goals and process: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.zope.plone.teams.framework/2274 of which various parts are outdated already. 2. A number of PLIP's at http://dev.plone.org/plone/milestone/4.0 which are reasonably up-to-date. I tried to take the initiative back in January to incorporate the changed process from the Plone 3.x framework team and required adjustments for the 4.0 process into our official process documentation. The discussion hasn't been very fruitful and ended without a clear result. I'd welcome it if the 4.0 framework team would take the lead in this matter and started clarifying the PLIP process for 4.0 as required from the framework teams point of view. In my dual role of release manager and major code contributer I have payed too little attention on communicating the changes and ideas for the 4.0 release. I'd welcome suggestions on how to improve this situation and ways of turning "Hanno's playground called trunk" back into a managed collaborative environment. Cheers, Hanno ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
[Framework-Team] Today's Framework Team Call
Here are the details for the conf call today. Let's skip the Skype version unless everyone agrees to use it and go for the call in number listed below. Cheers, Calvin Plone Framework Team Meeting Meeting Details: Meeting Description: Plone 4 is well on its way out of the gate and I'd like to see some regular *short* meetings by the current and new framework team so we can keep the project on the same page with one another. Conference Bridge Number: +1-605-475-4261. Conference Access Code: 307011262. Meeting / Session ID: 307011262. Date: 13-March-2009 Time: 05:00 pm Greenwich Mean Time : Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London (GMT) Duration: 1 Hours 0 Minutes JOIN YOUR MEETING At the meeting start time, click the following link to join interactively: https://www.yugma.com/app/loading.php?user=&collsession=307011262&role=4 BEFORE JOINING YOUR MEETING * You have been invited to join a Yugma meeting to fully interact, share and collaborate. * Before joining this meeting, ensure that your system is Yugma compatible by visiting https://www.yugma.com/yugmaready. * Next, on the Yugma homepage (https://www.yugma.com), click the Download button in the header to download the version of Yugma you need (Windows, Mac or Linux). * Select the file you want to download. After downloading, run the installer. * Once the installation is complete, Yugma will launch automatically. * When it is time for the session to begin, click the meeting link above to join your meeting. JOIN THE MEETING TELECONFERENCE: If you are using the teleconferencing service provided by Yugma, dial +1-605-475-4261. Next, on your phone, enter the Meeting or Session ID: 307011262 and then press the # (pound) key. To get more detailed information about the teleconference bridge controls visit our teleconference reference page: https://www.yugma.com/about/conference.php -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | http://www.sixfeetup.com Phone: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 cal...@sixfeetup.com ANNOUNCING the first Plone Immersive Training Experience | Sept. 10-11-12, 2009 http://sixfeetup.com/immerse ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
